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Author
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Topic: Fur's Savage build - 22-250
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 18, 2015 06:29 PM
Not much more to say, its ready for break in!
Here's the total tally..
Stevens 200 = $250
Stock - B&C Medalist = $268
Barrel - Mcgowen ; threaded, chambered,
varmit contour = $240 (excellent deal)
trigger - SSS = $102
SSS competition recoild lug = $28
SSS bolt handle = $40
SSS custom bolt flute = $50
go gauge / install = $30
Scope Rail = $39.99
Cerakote = $230
Barrel cap = $65
Total = $1343
The local gunsmith did a great job on the cerakote and barrel cap..I hope it shoots as well as it looks..
Thanks for all the help guys!
[ March 18, 2015, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted March 18, 2015 07:11 PM
I still think it's awfully flashy, but it's not mine. I just got caught up on this thread. You know, I absolutely hated going inside the same building, seeing the same things, smelling the same smells (I can still smell them to this day), and doing the same tedious work for 10 hours a day, BUT, having several years background as an aerospace machinist makes reloading a snap for me. Do the same thing, the same way, EVERYTIME. All these fancy gadgets they sell to promote and check that facet amazes me.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 19, 2015 03:34 AM
Heck dude, I'm psyched for ya F&D!!!
This thread is proof of the time & consideration you put into that rifle. And when you finally get to shoot & hunt with it, you're gonna smile all the wider with every hit you make...
Congrats man & have a ball with your new goodie!!!
P.S. it ain't too flashy (says the guy with purple & orange rifles)
Here's a Black & Tan to go with your Black & Tan rifle...cheers!
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 19, 2015 07:58 AM
Obviously, there are many versions of the perfect rifle for a specific application. There are things about this build that wouldn't interest me, too many to list, starting with the action choice and barrel maker, but hey?
I think there is way too much glass and kinda scratch my head at the stock configuration?
Okay, now nobody start with negative comments!
When I was this guy's age I couldn't afford a custom rifle, that's for sure.
I sure hope it shoots and the velocity is where it should be?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 19, 2015 08:47 AM
Even at this point, the build configuration still meets my objectives.. Yes, its heavier and more optical power than the classic 22-250 killer.. and I realize the shiny bolt face will be as shiny in the desert.
I couldn't argue if this gun is more characterized as a long range varmit gun. I guess its not a true coyote gun, but it will shoot pretty at the range AND sit pretty on my bipod in the desert.
But, there was a few new items that I wanted to try.. I wanted to test out a varmit contour barrel, also will be a good platform for the silencer (still not here)
You guys may or may not have heard much about Mcgowen, but many hardcore savage guys like this brand. Actually, the gun smithing work needs to be as high quality as the barrel.
The stock options are not huge for the savage, but I am not ready to waste $$ on a McMillan (poke, poke). I believe your paying extra for the name, kinda like I did for the nighforce (maybe). Their stocks are high quality, but this one is aluminum bedded and if I do a good "bedding" , I don't see why this stock would not be just as good in terms of accuracy and save me $500 bucks.
About the new Nightforce, its the "cheap" Nightforce. ;-) I love this scope, the reticle is fabulous.. I am testing it out and plan to switch this to my 7mm mag. I really, really like it. So glad I saved a little more to go better than the vortex PST.
Any case, the fun begins. I'll post up honest groups, crossing my fingers. Do you guys believe in breaking a barrel? Wonder what the nondetailed Jimanaz's would do?
[ March 19, 2015, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
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posted March 19, 2015 11:23 AM
Thanks for not wasting $$$ on a McMillan. That means I'm one customer closer to getting my other orders filled...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 19, 2015 11:59 AM
Nah, McMillan is not a waste..
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted March 19, 2015 12:29 PM
Since you asked...
I'm not a big advocate of "proper barrel break in". I've been known to take a rod with me, but not often. I would run a few patches thru it before shooting it the first time, swab it again after the first few shots (I usually use a bore snake), and depending on the length of the session, maybe another time or 2. Clean it again thoroughly when you get back home. Take note of how quickly it cleans up and how it feels.
As for the details, I guess what I said is maybe not exactly fair. I have a lot of stuff in my toolbox that do the things these gimicky things do. My point is/was, repetition. Once you get the hang of it and get the feel, keep on keepin' on. Like a baseball player's ritual at the plate. From placing your brass in the shell holder to the pressure on the press...consistency makes quality. Making every round perfect may make a competition benchrest guy's weekend, but is of little use to a guy who's intent is to let the air out of a few coyotes.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 19, 2015 01:01 PM
I'd ask the barrel maker, but there are as many methods for breaking in as imaginable. Hardly none of them make an appreciable difference.
Remember, jimbo, this is a dual purpose rig. One he could win a match with. At least I hope so.
(my son is a five axis setup machinist, kinda cool)
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted March 19, 2015 04:43 PM
Barrel break in:
Here's what I do. Sometimes I buy a box of factory stuff, or whip up some basic hand loads.
I clean after every round while getting on paper @ 100 yards, this usually takes 5-7 rounds.
Make whatever scope adjustment needed and fire a 3 shot group and clean again. And fire a fouler, after that I clean about every 15-20 rounds.
Always firing a fouler after cleaning, when developing loads. As times goes on, I clean whenever I think about it.
JMO..
[ March 19, 2015, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted March 19, 2015 06:08 PM
quote:
Remember, jimbo, this is a dual purpose rig. One he could win a match with. At least I hope so.
(my son is a five axis setup machinist, kinda cool)
I think of my 250AI the same way, but after the first few rounds of the session, don't spend much time with QC. If your setup and process are good, so is the product.
I have no idea what the technology is today, but back in the early 80's, the outfit I worked for was on the edge of it. We had the first, and only 5 axis centers in PHX, as far as I know. Those Pratt and Whitney Vikings were pretty cool alright, and there were only a few of us they would let near them.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 20, 2015 03:22 AM
Proper barrel break in video tutorial
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 20, 2015 05:25 AM
whoa..
[ March 20, 2015, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 20, 2015 09:02 PM
I know you guys are waiting at your computers for an update... lol
It was a pretty good day. The rifle and new chrony worked flawlessly which is half the battle.
I shot some PPU rounds and a few hand loads. For the reloads, used IMR 4166 at 75% of recommended max. This can go hotter!
Got around 3320 fps for 55 grns (PPU) and 3110 for 60 grns (Lapua reloads). These are not hot loads.
Shot about 15 total , here's my first group at 100 yards after the fouler.
I just ordered some bushing's for my Redding dies, so the fun will continue..
I'm stoked.
Glad I cleaned the barrel several times..
[ March 20, 2015, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 20, 2015 09:11 PM
Why 75% of max? Load that puppy to max and then work up from there. Your case will form better and you will get better accuracy. Remember the pressure is forming the case. You should have no problem loading max .22-250 Rem. Loads.
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 21, 2015 09:01 AM
IMR 4166 is new and not in the books; I have found a few loads on their website; so I'm working my way up..
So, when fire forming , do you guys put the bullet to the lands to reduce risk of necking the body?
The Lapua brass(fire formed) does not seem tight when closing the bolt w/ these loads..
[ March 21, 2015, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 21, 2015 09:39 AM
Completely normal. As was suggested, whether that powder is new or not, and for whatever reason you chose it, I bet Hodgdons HAS data for 22-250Rem. Use that data with no concern. Your (present) velocities are not worth considering, start over and forget about shooting 5X groups while you establish a max load. (whether you use it or not) since your second fireformed loads are what counts.
In a 22-250AI I have yet to see a situation where plain old H414 would not give adequate and satisfactory results. Not saying you should use it, but it's a good benchmark against whatever else you deem worthy. Caveat, assuming 55-65 grain bullets. Heavier might call for a slightly different burning rate?
It's a little early to frown at the accuracy, but I would expect a lot closer together. I know next to nothing about McGowan barrels but I think sub minute of angle should be a reasonable expectation? Actually, the first I ever heard of them, many years ago, they used to have a little one inch ad in American Rifleman, maybe 1950's or so? That's it. My fault for not keeping up, maybe they are now world beaters?
So, how do your shoulders look? Explain that question about:
quote:
when fire forming , do you guys put the bullet to the lands to reduce risk of necking the body?
I think all you need to be concerned with is firing a full charge load. Understand that your brass will be shorter than standard and will stay that way forever. The shoulder engagement should take care of itself on the reloads, assuming proper shoulder bump....or am I missing something?
Keep on keping on.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: one thing I guess should be pointed out. this is a little more difficult than ordinary because most people have years of experience in handloading before they try a nonstandard case like an Ackley. This is sure to complicate the process. Scratch that. No, not for sure, just possibly.
[ March 21, 2015, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted March 21, 2015 09:51 AM
Hodgdon:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
(edit) looks like 36.2 grains of 4166 is max with a 55gr bullet.
(edit) Varget shows 36.5 grains for same bullet.
I think you had mentioned 4166 was comparable to Varget ? that would sure seem so. I'm not sure what reloading book or books you might have. I'd just use the Varget load info and work from there.
[ March 21, 2015, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted March 21, 2015 09:59 AM
Also like Leonard said. I wouldn't be worried right now about the bullet ogive contacting the lands.
After a known load is established, then you can tinker a bit with seating depth to see if that improves anything in your groups.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 21, 2015 10:55 AM
I fireformed my AI with Varget and Berger 55 grain bullets. Went to the Berger manual for standard .22-250 and loaded a few at the max. 35.5 grains. Looked good so I went to 36.5 grains.Still no problems so went to 37.0 grains. Still just fine but accuracy was great so I left it.
Could have gone more but the cases formed perfectly and accuracy was as good as with the formed case.that's 1.5 grains over max.
So when fireforming that's why I said you can start at max and work up.
And I second Leonards recommendation of H414. Fast and Accurate as hell in the 22-250AI .
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 21, 2015 11:11 AM
Explain why you started fireforming by shortening your Lapua brass nine thou.? I'll go out on a limb and say that was unnecessary and possibly counterproductive? Unless you have a good reason? Like you mic'ed the chamber?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 21, 2015 12:19 PM
Just to be clear, I was using data from the Hodgdon website for a 60 grn. I used 33 grains, which was lower than max. I'm finding out that max values may still be conservative like UT pointed out..
Ok, I'll adjust.
To echo back, the idea is to find a max load because 1) its faster 2) max tends to be more accurate. After finding this particular load, start fire-forming.
This is what my brass looks like.
top row; PPU round; unformed lapua
bottom row; formed PPU, formed lapua
One of my bench rest buddies recommended to set the bullet to the lands while fire forming. This is done to insure the brass is up against the bolt which reduces local body necking (thin section above primer). I'll have to research this some more. If I do this , the 60 grn bullet will need to be .1" fwd of recommended 22-250 COL. I did this by modifying a formed case to produce low neck tension and carefully measured COL touching lands. Interesting.
The item that didn't sink in is shoulder bump. Are you saying that if its formed w/ max load, you can't close the bolt on an empty round? I can w/ these..
thx 
[ March 21, 2015, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
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posted March 21, 2015 12:24 PM
---removed for another day --
[ March 21, 2015, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted March 21, 2015 12:28 PM
LB, this was just an observation when taking some measurements.
If I measure tip to tail on a new piece of brass and than compare it after its was fire formed, I noticed that it shortened.. didn't know what to expect, makes sense since it forms the 40 degree
thx
[ March 21, 2015, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 21, 2015 01:02 PM
That is correct. Don't worry that the max standard 22-250 says its faster than your max fireforming load its because of the lack of pressure you have blowing your case out. Probably confusing but here's an example. Say you are shooting a standard 22-250 with 36.5 grains of Varget and it chronographs at 3680 fps . Then you fireform a 22-250 AI with the exact same load ( 36.5 grains of Varget) you probably won't get the 3680 fps. Because the standard .22-250 will have more pressure in the case. Whereas the Ackley is blowing the case out to AI so the pressure is expanding the case. The reason I mention this is that is what happened when I fireformed. I shot about 150 fps slower than standard .22-250 that's why you can go over max when fireforming. Hope that made sense.
And I agree with Dave Allen about not worrying to much about the lands while fireforming. You can tinker when you are loading up the Ackley .
[ March 21, 2015, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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