This is topic Fur's Savage build - 22-250 in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.


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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 09, 2015, 05:54 PM:
 
Thanks to all the 22-250 talk on this forum ; I decided to do a build in this caliber. Its about time! For those interested, I thought I would document..

First of all, the build will be designed around the Gemtech Sandstorm silencer (suppressor). The gov took my money, so its in the "waiting" period. The vendor says 4 months if I'm lucky. We'll see.

I got a great start when I found a used Stevens 200 at the Reno Cabelas (turns out, its new). New on the rack for $250. My buddy in Tucson bore scoped it, an swears its a new 22-250 barrel! I'll hold on to that barrel, but I have purchased a Mcgowen barrel. I've heard these are good "mid" grade barrels. Actually, the whole build is going to use good stuff , but not crazy top of the line. My original budget was $1200, However, when its done, it should look like one those fancy $3500 customs. ;-)

I really wrestled with Ackley vs. REM. Bottom-line, for a 21" barrel and just getting into reloading, I decided to do 22-250 REM.

Anyway, here's the break down of components. Build won't be done for awhile, you know how it goes!

Below is a pic of the Bell and Carlson Medalist. I really like the stock w/ the alum bed!



Stevens 200 = $250
Stock - B&C Medalist = $268
Barrel - Mcgowen ; threaded, chambered,
varmit contour = $240 (excellent deal)
trigger - SSS = $102
SSS competition recoild lug = $28
SSS bolt handle = $40
SSS custom bolt flute = $50
go gauge = $30
Scope Rail = $39.99
Cerakote = $200

Total = $1248

It will be fun to try and get below 1/2 MOA with reloading..

[ January 09, 2015, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on January 09, 2015, 06:03 PM:
 
Thats gonna be nice!
Mark
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 09, 2015, 06:03 PM:
 
Oh, that Zeiss terra on the table is for sale! ;-)
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 09, 2015, 06:09 PM:
 
Cool !!

IMR 4166 ? I must be behind the times ?
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 09, 2015, 06:56 PM:
 
IMR 4166 is apparently the new varget.. We'll see

Temperature insensitive and burn rates similar to varget!
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 09, 2015, 07:07 PM:
 
Well, All-Righty then !!

I'll check it out, Varget has served me well in the past. It's worked well in multiple calibers, I've used it in.
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 09, 2015, 07:40 PM:
 
IMR has come out with a new line of extreme powders. The IMR 4451 is the equivalent of h4350 like IMR4166 is the equivalent of varget. Hopefully this will elp with some supply issues.

On another note, varget was never my favorite powder when I loaded for 22-250.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on January 09, 2015, 08:45 PM:
 
Gonna be neat to watch this one come together!

Unless it's already too late, I'd sure reconsider the Ackley decision. Don't let it intimidate you as far as your loading skills go. And, I don't think it'll be long before you wish you would have.
Those Stevens 200's have a pretty good reputation for being accurate right out of the box. I sure can't explain it, (technically). My son's first rifle was a Stevens 200 .243 and it blows me away how accurate it is. Not even adding the disclaimer "for a cheap rifle". It's just a darned accurate rifle!

I've had really good luck with both velocity and accuracy with R-15.

Good luck!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2015, 08:19 AM:
 
Several interesting decisions.

For a custom build, I would never consider a McGowen barrel. In fact, I haven't heard of them in years? We'll see?

Is the decision to cut the barrel at 21 inches have anything to do with the can on the end? I am admittedly old school, but a performance round like 22-250 deserves a 26 inch barrel. Yes, it will still outperform a 223, but not by much.

For a custom build, as far as I'm concerned, there is only one choice, (in a factory action) a M700. We'll see?

The most questionable decision is to not go with Ackley! What set of factors added up to a custom rifle chambered in plain vanilla 22-250Remington? Just getting into hand loading is not a reason. In fact, using Wilson straight line dies and an arbor press, it doesn't get much easier. Or, simpler.

Sorry, that's all the wet blanket comments I can think of, right now, but good luck, and sorry to sound so negative.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 10, 2015, 09:01 AM:
 
I remember that I have an older Savage Short action that is without a barrel now. I keep thinking I am going to do something with it, but never do.

But since 22-250 was brought up, I have a 1-8 twist Criterion barrel for a Rem 700, in 223AI, well was a 223AI, but I just had it rechambered in 22XC. I have a 6XC so I suppose I can use the same S-dies. Kind of curious how it will fling the stash of 75 AMAX's I have.

[ January 10, 2015, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2015, 09:28 AM:
 
DanS, your gunsmith is probably funding his vacation home on Maui, with your projects! Wow! I used to say it was Dan, (the man) with more gun money than God, but I might have to reevaluate? Oh well, I'm just jealous.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 10, 2015, 10:46 AM:
 
I guess that, I just breezed over the post assuming you were doing Ackley.

Those bright IMR bottles grabbed my attention. Well whatever you want to do buddy. I just wanted to say while, I've never had an Ackley myself.

I wouldn't stress about reloading for one. Just load 22-250 rounds and fire 'em. Even while hunting. The cases will blow out, then tinker with the loads after, your just adding additional powder @ that point.

I'm not tryin' to talk ya out of anything dude. But, if you really wanted an Ackley, there's no reason to be spooked. Plus lots o' guys here to help you out man.
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 10, 2015, 05:28 PM:
 

quote:

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DanS, your gunsmith is probably funding his vacation home on Maui, with your projects!

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Yea, I know. He chambered (223Improved), threaded, shortened, crowned and installed a Stainless barrel I already had, put it on a Rem 700. He charged me $130, then punched out another 223 barrel to 22 XC and charged me another $60. It took him almost 4 days to do it too.

I am pretty happy with this gunsmith. He is trying to teach me some bench-rest stuff, but I have resisted. Don't know if I can afford another hobby?
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 11, 2015, 05:52 PM:
 
Yeah, looks like I might not make LB's Ackley club. (Yet)..

Tough decision.., but I decided that with a silencer of over 7" , a shorter barrel makes sense..

I talked to some serious predator hunters that like using silencers and they shoot even shorter barrels than 20"..

Yeah, it's a compromise for sure.. At first, I thought let's make an Ackley to make up for the barrel length difference...

I have a personal friend that made a 22-250 Ackley to shoot prairie dogs at 500 yards .. That gun is expensive and awesome, but he said that if he did it again, he would probably go REM.. Due to the extra effort of the wildcat dims..

I ran the numbers on energy of a 55 grain at 3800 fps (REM) and 4000 fps (Ackley).. There's only a 10 percent difference in energy.. That's not enough difference to really argue about, right?

For my first build and first reload experience, I played it safe with REM..
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 11, 2015, 06:14 PM:
 
I would be totally shocked if you could get 3800 fps with a standard 22-250 rem. With a 55 grain bullet and a 21" barrel. You'll be lucky to get 3500 fps.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 11, 2015, 06:32 PM:
 
Yup.

- DAA
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 11, 2015, 06:35 PM:
 
I'm averaging 3824 fps with a MOLY'd 55 gr NBT in my 22" 22-250ai with LaPua cases and RL15. Sure I could get a little more but my goal was 3800, it shoots fine and I'm pretty happy with it.

That's roughly the same that my other 22" vanilla 22-250 got with 50's. I think it averaged 3833 fps again with RL15.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 11, 2015, 06:54 PM:
 
That's impressive the most I could get out of my standard 22-250 with 50 grain bullets was right at 3800 fps and that was with a 24" barrel.
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on January 11, 2015, 07:18 PM:
 
Another happy R-15 customer...
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 11, 2015, 08:36 PM:
 
Yes, I am expecting less than 3800 fps due to the shorter barrel.. I get it..

Thanks for the feedback guys..

[ January 11, 2015, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 11, 2015, 08:40 PM:
 
RL-15 is what I've been using in both my .22-250 AI and my .17 Tactical. Very happy with it. Great velocities and accuracy. But then again both of my barrels are 26" too.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2015, 10:09 AM:
 
Every barrel is different, some, a lot different. Some are ho hum accuracy wise, some just never show the velocity that others get, so it is never guaranteed.

quote:

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I have a personal friend that made a 22-250 Ackley to shoot prairie dogs at 500 yards .. That gun is expensive and awesome, but he said that if he did it again, he would probably go REM.. Due to the extra effort of the wildcat dims..

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quote:

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In any case, it saves with the hassle of getting custom dies and fire forming to get that extra 10% or so...

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quote:

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The room however has a ton of ackley guys and no knowledgable bench rest REM guys to rebuttal..

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quote:

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I'm averaging 3824 fps with a MOLY'd 55 gr NBT in my 22" 22-250ai with LaPua cases and RL15.

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quote:

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The room however has a ton of ackley guys and no knowledgable bench rest REM guys to rebuttal.. So, I don't know how far we'll get with this..

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You wanna shoot benchrest or shoot coyotes?

quote:

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Bottomline , ackley out performs in velocity.. Acknowledged.. But I'm not convinced its the tipping point that's going to bring me more coyotes at the end of the day.. Seems taking time to practice more is time better spent.. Yeah, I said it.

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OK, Valid point. I am sure a factory rifle in 22-250 would probably do all you need it to do. Hell Vic uses a 17 Mach IV. It seems to work for The "Coyote God". hehehe! Compare energy and such to that round.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 12, 2015, 04:06 PM:
 
A .17 Mach IV is what I've been running lately too. Not my usual main squeeze - though it was, for a couple years, about ten year ago. But have been using it for coyote again lately, mainly just because.

- DAA
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 12, 2015, 04:06 PM:
 
Deleted double post

[ January 12, 2015, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 12, 2015, 04:19 PM:
 
The 22=250 remington is one cartridge that truly begs to be improved. Even if you consider fireforming to be a chore, the lack of brass prep after the process through out the life of the case, makes it worth while.

As far as the comment about bench rest, I wonder if that was just one individuals opinion. The 6 dasher has become fairly popular with benchrest and fclass shooters, and it is basically an improved 6br.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 12, 2015, 05:26 PM:
 
Damn, peer pressure is a bitch (just joking)..

I called the vendor and told him I wanted Ackley!

HOWEVER, He didn't know if the barrel was done or not?

So, I'll be getting either a 22-250 REM or. 22-250 Ackley ..

Thanks guys.. Stay tuned

PS The bench rest dude was just "one" guy that also shoots prairie dogs . Case closed.

[ January 12, 2015, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2015, 06:35 PM:
 
Anybody for an end zone dance?
 

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Posted by Duckdog (Member # 3842) on January 12, 2015, 07:18 PM:
 
And here's another way to think about it, in case you haven't already...

Since you're not loading your own yet, just shoot regular 22/250 loads through it, just like you would if it were chambered for the vanilla 22/250 Rem, and...there's your fire formed brass!

By that time, you'll have your head wrapped around loading for this new beast, and you'll already have all of this fire formed brass.

So, in other words,...just treat it like a regular old 22/250 until you start loading.
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 12, 2015, 07:33 PM:
 
I really don't see what all the hoopla was about. As soon as he said he was having his barrel chopped at 21", I lost interest. Different strokes for different folks, but throwing that much performance away with 5" of barrel hurts my head.

I hope you enjoy whatever you end up with. On the bright side, not investing a bunch of money in smithing services, a fancy barrel and action, and a top of the line stock won't make it too painful if decide you didn't get what you were hoping for.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 12, 2015, 08:05 PM:
 
Jimanaz, your such a party pooper. I'll remember that..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2015, 08:09 PM:
 
Umm? A lot of wisdom in the above comment. But, it's his money, not ours.

All in all, I hope he's happy with it.

Actually, Fur, you could have asked the Peanut Gallery here before you had your mind wrapped around what you have ordered. Not exaggerating these guys are very knowledgeable.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on January 12, 2015, 08:12 PM:
 

quote:

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Does it really make a difference in kill ratios?

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Shot the regular version for 26 years and the ackley version for 8....the answer is yes.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 12, 2015, 08:16 PM:
 
It's just that my silencer is over 7" inches..put that on a 26" barrel and I would feel like I'm carrying an elephant penis into the field!

This silencer puts a whole new twist on things. (No pun intended)

Let's see how it turns out..

I really do appreciate all the comments. Yes , even you Jimanaz..

[ January 12, 2015, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 12, 2015, 08:57 PM:
 
As was said, it's your money. I understand the reasoning behind the shorter barrel, maybe a 250 Ackley and a can don't really compliment one another. Or a 250 Rem, for that matter.

I know Tom's is shorter too, but that's just something I can't wrap my head around. Probably a personal flaw. Hell, I almost wish I'd had mine finished @ 30".
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 12, 2015, 09:49 PM:
 
I have several barrels longer than 26 inches. I really don't see why people are afraid of long barrels?

In fact, although some may not see the connection, to let a seven inch surpressor dictate your barrel length decisions is kind of questionable. You know, a long barrel, all by itself, is a suppressor. Really.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2015, 05:00 AM:
 
You guys and your long barrels, trying to make up for other shortcomings?

My cousin is just like y'all he's got his 28" 6mm AI that runs just about 100 fps faster than my 22" 243AI due to his powder choices.

I just don't see the need but as long as you can sleep at night.

In this case, I might have went 24" with a heavy profile due to the can changing POI or went 223AI and a 20" chunk. But I'm not going to tell someone else how to spend their money unless they ask me.

I do remember reading about a guy who chose 30-06AI on his big game carbine. He wound up with vanilla 30-06 velocities which was what he wanted, a shorter handy dandy 30-06.

For me, I toted my shotgun through the timber this past weekend and was amazed at everything the extra barrel length hung on.

I don't think furdirt's bullets are gonna bounce off either way.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 13, 2015, 05:57 AM:
 
On the 4th loading of .22-243AI cases now, and have yet to trim, or even FL size the brass. Quick run thru a bushing neck die & roll wit it!

Same for the .17Predator, with it's Improved shoulder. 5x fired brass, and the bolt still closes on a fired case...

I never forgot when I heard Dave say he likes to "stop beating hearts" when fireforming cases. I quickly adopted that as my preferred way, too. If at all possible...

IMHO, if cans were legal here, I'd be leaning toward building a rifle around a case that thrives in a short barrel, over one that tolerates one. But, to each, his own!
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 13, 2015, 06:38 AM:
 
Tom,

Seems I'm getting close to your selection , only 3" off. If all things equal, assuming a 25 to 32 fps worst case per inch lose , that's only about a 100 fps difference max.

Most importantly, accuracy should be similar, right?

Seems like we should start a short barrel club? ha ha
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 13, 2015, 06:45 AM:
 
The one thing that I don't know is if an Ackley will provide the same performance delta on a short barrel as a longer barrel? hmmm

[ January 13, 2015, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 13, 2015, 07:19 AM:
 
It'll still be faster than a 21" vanilla 22-250
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 13, 2015, 07:47 AM:
 
That's one thing beyond dispute. A short barrel is more accurate than a long barrel. Well, hardly anything "is beyond dispute" up in the north woods, but they say by cutting a long barrel, inch by inch, eventually, it gets more accurate.

Spare us! Snagging a long barrel? Haven't heard that one in a long time. Just kidding but you realize, a lot of places, there is nothing to snag it on?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 14, 2015, 08:03 PM:
 
Time to apply for the Ackley club! Vendor confirmed.

[ January 15, 2015, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 15, 2015, 07:17 AM:
 
You'll be glad.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 15, 2015, 08:07 AM:
 
Yeah, you sure dodged that bullet! Now, could you please instruct him to cut the damned thing at 23" and compromise with a 5" muffler?

Thank you, LB
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 15, 2015, 07:48 PM:
 
Well, good for you !!

It just appeared to me you were inclined to do the Ackley thing from the 1st place.

Right on..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2015, 08:11 AM:
 
NO, HE WASN'T! WE HAD TO DRAG HIM, KICKING AND SCREAMING, EVERY INCH OF THE WAY!
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on January 16, 2015, 08:36 AM:
 
Fur, I sure wouldn't worry about the Ackley being a hassle to load for, you have lots of the best on here to help you with any problems.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 16, 2015, 09:42 AM:
 
Well, I guess I did have a few arm wrestling matches..

Glad you guys are around!
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 16, 2015, 04:28 PM:
 
I'm gonna go kill something with mine in the morning to celebrate.

But I'm leaving the ladder in the shed!

I think 22" 22-250AI's are just fine.
As promised...
[/URL]

[ January 17, 2015, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 17, 2015, 01:52 PM:
 
Thumbs up!
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 17, 2015, 05:25 PM:
 
Nice job Tom !!

Fur, now that the dust is starting to settle. What kinda bullets are you gonna use when you start reloading ? I know ya got the IMR 4166 for powder.

Rainy day-night, I'm bored.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 17, 2015, 06:29 PM:
 
Now that you asked... The barrel is a 1:12, so bullet weight is limited..

I'm interested in shooting as heavy as possible (I think). Still need to dig into this, but I believe the vendor said 55 to 60 grains should stabilize fine.

Bullet selection is trickier, since I got that can on the end. I'm staying away from super fragile bullets to avoid any potential damage to my expensive can. Besides, I hate Vmax. That's another story.

So, I'm thinking a high quality sierra hollow point.

Open to suggestions.. thx
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 17, 2015, 06:45 PM:
 
Don't know how they would work with your supressor but you should have no problem stabilizing either the 60 or 64 grain Berger hollow points. That's what I have been shooting and my 22-250 Ackley is a 1:12 twist. Both bullets shoot great groups and kill coyotes very dead.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 17, 2015, 06:48 PM:
 
I'm not a V-max fan either, for whatever that's worth.

A 52-53 gr hollow point is always a solid choice. I've never shot a coyote with a Nosler 55gr ballistic tip. I think it would work fine though.

Here's the deal. Availability is always an issue ?

In the old days you just went out & got what ya wanted. Different game now.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 17, 2015, 07:13 PM:
 
Ain't that the truth seems like Berger discontinues there bullets faster than I can load them. Lol I bought 200 55 grain Berger hollow points target bullets to fireform in my Ackley then I bought five boxes of the 60 grain and 5 boxes of the 64 grain Bergers. Now I'll probably get 5 more boxes of each and call it good. That should last me for the rest of this barrel.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 17, 2015, 07:37 PM:
 
I used a lot of Sierra .224" bullets, the 53HP is probably the best. Also killed a lot of coyotes with the 55 Spitzer. However, they aren't as good as the 55 Nosler BT and Berger bullets are a great choice, if you can get them. I would try the 60gr. Berger, I doubt you would have to look any further? I'm still using a supply of the 62gr. Berger. (not a fur bullet, at my velocities)

But, an ideal situation would be what I get in my 22-250Ackley. Most always, I get a complete passthrough, exiting something on the order of a quarter? They hardly twitch a muscle.

I always used the 55VMax in my 223Ackley. Good accuracy and good killer. It was 2 1/2 years before I saw my first cripple. But, everybody has what they have confidence in. Yeah, those desert dogs are valuable.

But, what that reminds me of. I also developed a 40grVMax load just for cats. In 223AI.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: Berger discontinuing bullets. My guess is they are cheap bastards and won't replace a worn die, if it's not in a popular target bullet, which is their bread and butter.

[ January 17, 2015, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 18, 2015, 08:14 AM:
 
Ya know over the last 4-5 years if, I see .224 bullets I usually buy a box or two.

So, I've wound up with some combo's I've never even used yet, an example would be just plain jane Hornady 55gr soft points. I see no reason why they wouldn't work just fine ?

I forgot to mention another one of my favorites. The Sierra 55gr spritzer, part #1365 its called a Gameking.

Good luck !!
 

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Posted by jwelk (Member # 2051) on January 18, 2015, 11:28 AM:
 
I have shot the Sierra Gameking 55 gr hollow point
for several years now and really like them. I think the number is #1390 on the box.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 19, 2015, 10:58 AM:
 
Thanks guys.. I'll write down all suggestions and do some research..

Here's the progress on my humble reloading bench; I have a mini bench (anchored to the walls) that mounts the press and it's rock solid !

I think I'll mount a shelve to hold the tools..



[ January 19, 2015, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2015, 11:23 AM:
 
You should want to get your knees under the bench. It looks like that lower shelf might be in the way of scooting up close? I'd have my shelves above, not below. I hope your press isn't shoved too far, over against the wall? But; if it works for you, that's all that counts.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS needs to be a little more cluttered.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 19, 2015, 01:20 PM:
 
Good eye..

Yeah my knees can get under.. We'll see how it works. The second shelve will definitely be above the table top, thinking about laying out all the tools there....

The press looks like it's slammed next to the wall, but no knuckle scrapping..

Nothing too impressive , but it will get me started..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 19, 2015, 02:51 PM:
 
My fellow Americans. Can we have a few shots of your reloading bench, please? Fur definitely needs some inspiration.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 19, 2015, 04:36 PM:
 
This is in the man cave, so no sweating my ass off in
August,

[ January 19, 2015, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 19, 2015, 04:56 PM:
 
Well, by damn when FUR decides to do something. He just gets er' done !!

Nice setup dude. Let's see another picture in a year or so
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 19, 2015, 05:24 PM:
 
photobucket no workie for me?

[ January 19, 2015, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 19, 2015, 05:26 PM:
 
Oh' yeah another thing. I noticed you have a balance beam for a scale, nice !!

Many would just rush to a ChargeMaster or such. I believe everyone should start with a balance beam. JMO..

Anyway I started using a digital scale a few years ago mainly because of my middle age eyes.

Still have the balance beam though. And on occasion check each other to make sure the digital isn't off.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 19, 2015, 05:42 PM:
 
Dave,

I kept telling myself, don't get obsessive , but too late!

Do you guys like to use the expensive dies with mics built into them ? Or the standard set screw dies that are sold in Sportsmans?
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 19, 2015, 06:23 PM:
 
Fur,

You may get different opinions. Mine is keep it simple @ least for now.

I like Redding dies, lots of stuff I like about RCBS, however personally not a big fan of their dies.

I'm unsure of what's used in a Ackley application ? That being said, I've found myself buying Hornady dies because of the drop down sleeve in the bullet seating die.

They used to have a bad reputation, and yes I understand why. They have improved them and I have been using 4-5 sets for several years now.

(edit) I assumed Ackley dies could be purchased in a set ? Yeah they are, Duh..

[ January 19, 2015, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2015, 07:02 PM:
 
[/URL]
Balance beam here too.
Not the best setup by any means but I'm in the A/C and can load or work on a gun. I have a roll top desk that I keep my bullets, dies, primers, cases and other necassary loading tools. The little filing cabinet is full of powder.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2015, 07:13 PM:
 
I should say I tried the Chargemaster and it worked fine but was a little slow. I could throw a charge and load the previous shell and still had to wait on the next charge. The fan also screwed with it so I went old school.

I did order a micrometer powder thingie for the thrower, I can set my thrower to whatever I have wrote down on my chart from the previous time. I do check it on the balance beam and then start filling cases.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 19, 2015, 07:27 PM:
 
Tom, that's interesting to hear you're take on the ChargeMaster.

I stood there about a year ago in Sportsmans Warehouse and pondered and pondered. Just damn near bought one.

Something in me just said no ?

I'm curious what are you using for dies ? Fur, has me about on the edge to do an Ackley ?

[ January 19, 2015, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 19, 2015, 08:37 PM:
 
I'm using Redding 3 die sets. I'm told bushing type dies are better but I don't have any problems with these. I much prefer Redding to RCBS.

I used the Chargemaster for a few years and they do work but I can fill 50 cases and check for any discrepancies before the Chargemaster fills 10.

[ January 20, 2015, 05:03 AM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 19, 2015, 10:35 PM:
 
I use a Chargemaster. Keep the swamp cooler and other outside influences from it, and it's hard to beat, IMO.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 20, 2015, 04:17 AM:
 
My bench is in there somewhere.



Was given a Chargemaster. I then too gave it away. Just too slow.

- DAA
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 20, 2015, 05:33 AM:
 
If you search around, you can find some "how to" vids for reprogramming your Chargemaster to speed up the throws. I did it to mine, and it was a big help.
Also, the "McDonalds straw trick" seems to help stick powders from clumping up inside the tip of the dispenser...
One last thing I did is plug the Chargemaster into a power conditioner strip. Posta help maintain a constant voltage & keep the electronic scale from drifting.
Fluorescent lighting fixtures have been blamed for affecting the Chargemaster, although I've never seen that, firsthand...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 20, 2015, 08:47 AM:
 
Hmm? I had a problem, forty years ago. What with kids, dogs and especially CATS, I decided right away that I needed security. So, I built a long narrow room with two deadbolts and a bench on both ends. Totally built in benches. Totally identical.

Main thing is, I can reach anything without moving. Well, not really, I do have to stand up occasionally, and I need to get off the stool to access stuff underneath but its compact because I only had so much room in my garage.

On the one hand, I do envy those that can dedicate a shack or an entire room for reloading, but it seems to work for me. It is suitably cluttered. I can lock the door and nothing will be disturbed for months. One eight foot florescent provides all the illumination I could ever need.

Main thing is shelves. I need lots of shelf space. I can even stack rifles on one wall. Kind of funny but here recently, I was hoarding ammo and bullets and one shelf FELL DOWN! I usually overkill everything, so was dumbfounded to see all that stuff, busted open boxes, cartridges and bullets scattered all over. But, stuff made out of lead is heavy and I have no excuse, but this time I'm pretty sure it will hold at least five hundred pounds of "ammo".

Now, it's stupid to be cramped in that narrow room in the cold garage, when I have three available bedrooms up stairs and I live alone. But, it's good enough, until I move to AZ.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: Dave, you need to take out the trash.

[ January 20, 2015, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 20, 2015, 12:31 PM:
 
LB, moving to AZ, huh?

Interest rates are stupid low right now.

It's about time leaving Cali , the land of no coyote contests..
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 20, 2015, 12:56 PM:
 
Ya know, I lived in Southern Calif. for over twenty five years.
Had some good times & made some good friends.
But I can't think of a single good reason why anybody would want to live there now.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 20, 2015, 01:18 PM:
 
I tried the speed boost on mine and it helped but nothing is faster than throwing a lever, all I have to wait on now is for the powder to funnel through the 22 cal hole.

I throw 10 charges and weigh each one then when all 10 are correct, I mass produce. I used to weigh every 10th charge just to be sure but it's never been off more than 2/10's of a grain.

My reloading room also holds the dreadmill my wife walks on but the rest of the room is mine. (Unless she needs to move something else in there.)
 

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Posted by 92soggy (Member # 4362) on January 20, 2015, 05:28 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 20, 2015, 06:23 PM:
 
Nice, I'm also diggin' the Co-Ax press !!

I went over to Cabela's in Boise a few years ago to buy one. All they had was a floor model, which they wouldn't sell. Kinda pissed me off, ya know when your in the mood to get something ?

Anyway looks like a hell of a press, and no shell holders !!

[ January 20, 2015, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by 92soggy (Member # 4362) on January 20, 2015, 09:42 PM:
 
I think the Co-Ax is the best investment we've made as far as reloading tools go.
No shell holders! That's also my favorite thing about it.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2015, 10:29 AM:
 


The message is: regardless of your CoAx press or your Redding dies, if you want real simplicity and accuracy, you need these dies and an arbor press. There is nothing easier to use and nothing more accurate than straight line chamber seating.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ January 21, 2015, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 21, 2015, 12:36 PM:
 
So Sinclair sells an arbor press kit plus Wilson hand dies..

If I purchase this, do I only need a primer removal die?

Also, what are the bushings used for? Thanks!!

sinclair..

[ January 21, 2015, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 21, 2015, 01:32 PM:
 
The bushings can be used in Redding dies, they are interchangeable with Wilson.

While you can use bushing dies without neck trimming, most people do trim their necks to some extent. This will change the bushing size, and you might not get it, (the size) right, on first attempt. So, you might want to even the wall thickness with a 75% pass or take it to a uniform twelve or thirteen thousandths. Since it only affects the outside of the neck, any turning you do will determine the exact bushing size needed.

The smaller boxes are neck sizer dies, which use bushings. The reason you don't see as many, in the pic is because I use Redding bushing dies, as well.

But, the nice thing about the Wilson dies is that they are not hardened steel and can be reamed to your specifications with the exact same reamer as the one used to chamber your barrel.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 21, 2015, 03:09 PM:
 


[ January 21, 2015, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Az-Hunter ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 23, 2015, 11:24 AM:
 
Here's my bolt and recoil lug that I got from SSS today. They did a good job. It's a bit wild, not sure if I love it. I was going to cerakote the bolt, but contrasts pretty well. We'll see.





[ January 23, 2015, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on January 31, 2015, 12:16 PM:
 
Guys , what A.O.l gauges are u using for the 22-250 ackley?

The hornady locknload does not support wildcat cartridges..

Thanks!
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on January 31, 2015, 02:18 PM:
 
Fireform 2 pieces of brass. Send to Hornady custom with $15. They will have them back in a few days with one 'tapped' for the lock and load tool. You need to send 2 in case one gets messed up in the process (never had this problem)....they will return both.

Maintain
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 01, 2015, 08:34 AM:
 
Thanks cross, I'll look into this.. Seems like best solution for me.

Life is good, I got some varget yesterday..

 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 01, 2015, 09:18 AM:
 
Two pounds ? wow..

Sportmans will only sell one pound of whatever they have. I kinda forgot about this thread, did ya get primers and bullets ect, all rounded up ?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 01, 2015, 12:40 PM:
 
When I was in Walmart a couple months ago, and maybe the situation has changed? Anyway, they had a sign stating the store policy, THREE BOXES OF AMMUNITION PER CUSTOMER, PER DAY.

They had a modest supply in the glass case. I forget what I wanted, but it was handgun ammo; strictly 3 boxes, whatever the amount of cartridges in each box. So, right beside the glass case, they had shotshells, Federal and Winchester, something like 100 rounds 7 1/2 and 8, and you know that inside were four regular boxes of 25 each. Curious, I asked and the guy said, yeah, you can buy three of those, but only three individual boxes inside the glass case. I could buy 75, (3X25) shotshells from the glass case, or 300, (3X100) shotshells from the shelf right beside the glass case. I said, you know what's inside those long boxes, right? Yup, but that's the store policy....

I think I was amused.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 01, 2015, 03:09 PM:
 
I'd kill for Varget right now.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 01, 2015, 07:47 PM:
 
Varget would not be on my list for the AI, but I have 10 pounds of it...

- DAA
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 01, 2015, 08:38 PM:
 
Just saw about 15 lbs on the shelf at the man store today. $28 per lb
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 01, 2015, 08:45 PM:
 
DAA, what's ur favorite powder for 22-250 AI??? Thx
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 02, 2015, 04:15 AM:
 
Depends on the twist and the bullet. But for 55's my current tube likes N550.

- DAA
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 02, 2015, 06:39 AM:
 
I couldn't find N550 around here, so I used imr 4064, and RL-15 even worked better for me.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2015, 08:19 AM:
 
Nobody cares what I use?

H414
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 02, 2015, 10:44 AM:
 
You can literally go mad if think too hard about all the bullet and powder combinations! (and go broke)
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 02, 2015, 12:45 PM:
 
Leonard the 2 powders I use exclusively for my 22-250AI are RL15 and H414. You recommended it to me and it works great.Seems to be better with the 64 grain Bergers than the 60's though. Use the RL15 with the 60's.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 02, 2015, 01:40 PM:
 
I jumped into the 22-250AI game after reading about one my favorite rifle guru, Ross Seyfried had built up for coyotes. I had one built up back around 1989, on a Ruger 22-250 varmint, big heavy laminate stock and long, heavy tube. I shortened and slimmed the stock, cut the barrel back to 22", and rechambered to the AI.
Ross recommended a stout dose of H414 to break 4K fps, so that's the powder I ran with and never looked back, great performance and excellent accuracy....I love that powder and used it in my 220 swift as well with good results.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2015, 03:18 PM:
 
Yeah, Chad. Happy to hear you are good with the H414. I only use it with 64 and 65 grain bullets, in 22-250AI. I have no information at all, about 60 grain bullets?

It's a different case, but the Middlested is loaded with H4831 behind a 62 grain bullet. I tried H414, peaked a little too early.

Vic shoots something besides sub calibers? Who knew?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 02, 2015, 06:23 PM:
 
Ive used and experimented with just about all of them at one time or another Leonard. Long ago I was big into PD shooting, so I had several big boomers in order to reach out and kill them.
On coyotes; my 25-06, 6mms', 22-250 and 22-250AI were just to much gun for what I do and how I like to hunt them. I don't own any big rifles now, other than one dedicated to deer. Probably my all time favorite coyote rifle would be the .19 Badger, shooting a 32 grain Calhoon bullet. It was just about as perfect a coyote killer that Ive ever owned and shot.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 02, 2015, 08:03 PM:
 
If that rifle is one I have shot, a CZ by Calhoon, I thought it was a very nice piece, would like to have one just like it, in fact! But, I thought it was available in a 19-223 as well? No? Whatever, the one you showed me was a damned nice gun, no shortcuts, well made.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 05, 2015, 04:50 PM:
 
So, I installed a sharp shooter's supply trigger today. This was definitely not drop in and forget, you need to very carefully adjust three screws in a sequence. With patience, it worked well. Feels pretty damn good actually, great buy.

Below , are the bullets that I'll be trying.. I decided to go for sierra, thanks for all the recommendations.



Still have not received my barrel yet..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 05, 2015, 05:32 PM:
 
The middle box, 53 grain flat base might be the best. As far as a 55 grain, the spitzer is a better choice than the HP. I never used that 60 gr. no idea what you could expect?

It's a place to start. Don't be afraid to cut the bench work short if it doesn't show right away. You need to weed through these fairly rapidly. In other words, don't get sucked into seating depth to the thousandths of an inch, save that stuff for a few bullets that show promise, if you know what I mean? In other words, a good bullet for your rifle should stand out without much tinkering. I wouldn't use a whole box of bullets varying the load up and down a couple tenths at a time and screwing with the seating depth. You need to do that stuff, but don't waste your time dialing in a one inch group, expecting to turn it into a quarter incher.

Then, you need to evaluate terminal performance and possibly start all over again. Or, maybe you will be lucky and it will all fall into place. Actually, that's where a bit of advice and recommendations from others can be helpful.

Good luck, El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 06, 2015, 06:08 PM:
 
LB,

Cool, I get it..

What measurements do you like to use for fire-forming.. Bullet to land distance? Percent of nominal load?

Have you successfully down selected bullets while fire-forming.

Thanks!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2015, 08:43 AM:
 
What measurements do you like to use for fire-forming. Bullet to land distance? Percent of nominal load?

Well, I like to keep it simple, for fireforming, if I have no other option. For me, fireformimg serves no other purpose, I'm not developing a load. Actually, I do my fireforming in the garage, I have a chamber hung from the rafters and use reduced loads of pistol powders without bullets, but that doesn't really address your question, does it?

Have you successfully down selected bullets while fire-forming.

No, if I fireform loaded cartridges, I generally use leftover bullets, ones that I will not be using for a finished Ackley Improved cartridge. And, this is probably just confusing, right? In my practice, once I have the Ackley case formed, that's when the actual load testing begins.

Admittedly, there are a number of ways to accomplish this, everybody is likely to have different methods, and consider certain steps a waste of time; ie, just load em up and fireform em.

But, that scenario can drag out the process until next year, depending on how much time you have to get out in the field and shoot. I like to treat my batch of cases as a unit, cycle them together so I know where I'm at. 200 cases and 8 pounds of powder can get you several years down the road, if you take care of them. I never got out of the habit of holding my fingers of the left hand over the ejection port to keep brass from being tossed in the dirt.

All in all, there is a distinct feeling of accomplishment in having your finished Ackley cartridges dialed in. From that point on, I refuse to be sucked into the different bullets, and endless experiments. I get all that testing out of the way and there are some exact same loads dedicated to specific guns that I have been using for (what)? like twenty years, never changed a thing except minor stuff like when using a new lot of powder or adjusting seating depth to account for throat erosion.

A lot of yacking, hope you get something out of it?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 07, 2015, 11:22 AM:
 
Pretty simple when I fireformed. Bought some Berger bullets, had some Varget powder. Seated the bullets to do COL of standard .22-250. Started at the standard 22-250 max load with the Varget and shot. Didn't like the accuracy so I bumped it up to 1/2 grain over max and had about a 3/4 inch group. Used that load to fireform 200 rounds of brass. Killing alot of coyotes along the way.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 07, 2015, 11:37 AM:
 
See there? That's the practical application. But, he lives up there in prime coyote country, (I think) whereas, for me, like last month, it's a twelve hour drive.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 07, 2015, 05:59 PM:
 
Sounds like Leonard and Chad laid out two good ways to get ya there.

I'm guessing Leonard stuffs a cotton ball in the neck to replace the bullet ?

As far as bullet seating goes IMO Sierra bullets shoot best about .030 off the lands, if you desire to take those measurements. I've found Hornadys shoot best closer.

Of course, I'm just shooting factory barrels.

[ February 08, 2015, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 08, 2015, 08:48 AM:
 
I don't know about prime country but there are a few up here in Utah. Plus Nevada has a few Coyotes too. I definitely like the 60's and 64's for Coyote killing with the New formed case over the 55's I used to fireform with. But they are still a good Coyote killing bullet. I guess the forming wasn't that big of a deal for me considering that I shot a 22-250 Rem. and 55 grain bullets for 20+ years.

Good Hunting Chad

[ February 08, 2015, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 08, 2015, 03:03 PM:
 
We try'em and see what happens..

I installed a cabinet today, so glad I did, makes a big difference, everything is pretty much in reaching distance ..





[ February 08, 2015, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 08, 2015, 04:33 PM:
 
I HATE people who are that organized.



The last time that one of my workbenches was that tidy it involved a leaf-blower.


 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2015, 04:54 PM:
 
Yup, it's scary. But, give him a chance, he's just starting out.

I think that bench could use just a little beefing up around the press. Not for fireformed 22-250 Ackley, maybe, but larger cases might need some countermeasures, leverage wise? It's hard to make the bench TOO strong.

Cabinet looks like it belongs. Where did you get it and how much was it?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 08, 2015, 05:32 PM:
 
A strong bench and tools mounted solidly goes a long way to keeping troubles to a minimum.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 08, 2015, 05:34 PM:
 
Oh and I like to shoot so I load a strong standard load with whatever bullet I'm using in that caliber and go kill stuff or bang steel.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 09, 2015, 05:27 PM:
 
Thanks for the measurements Dave..

LB, that cabinet was at Lowe's for about $85.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 10, 2015, 06:18 PM:
 
Dude, I'm so envious of your set up. My reloading room is the garage.

My daughter still lives with us, she's in college. The spare room is full of my wife's stuff. Now my wife says she's clearing out the spare room, great !!

But, she's buying two bunny's now and that's gonna be their pad.

I'll be married 24 years in September. I live in a female dominated house hold. Everything is white and pink.

I've finally come to the realization, don't fight it. I'm just along for the ride..

A corner of the garage is mine, a reloading bench and a 4-wheeler..Lol
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2015, 08:23 PM:
 
You sure opened yourself up for a few snarky comments, Dave. But, it won't be me!

Why? Because that's all I have is the "half" of a 2 1/2 car garage. I make it work.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: besides, wait until fur has spent primers rolling around, and spilled powder. No, really, if you have a spare room, it's great but for me, my loading belongs in the garage.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ February 10, 2015, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 21, 2015, 08:38 PM:
 
Yup, powder and brass shavings everywhere! But I just vacuum it up! Don't tell the wife..

I went to range today and shot my first reloads. (.223) It was pretty damn fun! Those 53 sierra match shot really well.

I dont know why it took me long to start reloading..

PS. My barrel still has not showed up!

[ February 21, 2015, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 22, 2015, 08:45 AM:
 
Good for you dude !!

Hey do you like your powder measure mounted on the end of the bench ? it seems like it should be back some ?

You guys have inspired me, gotta' go back out to the garage. To organize my reloading area.
 

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Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on February 22, 2015, 09:50 AM:
 
Yeah, that is just sickening, to be that neat an organized.
Mark
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 22, 2015, 11:55 AM:
 
Dave,

I'm finding that you want ALL equipment right in front of you when reloading, so my ergonomics is not the best.. However, still working it. I have a quick clamp that holds the powder tower so I'll be moving it right in front of me..

I find that if I rotate a little to the right, I can comfortably use the press. The press base is actually quite stiff, so I like that location..

Oh yeah, if you guys are using single presses and not using the Hornady bushing kit , your missing out! It is fabulous to be able to quickly remove any die and twist a quarter of a turn to have your exact settings! Very, very cool.

Hornady Lock n Load bushing Kit
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 22, 2015, 12:00 PM:
 
Oh yeah, I'm currently reviewing IMR 4166 and I'll report back soon.. So far, so good.

I need a lot more range sessions to confirm, but it shot those 53 sierra matches very nice out of my combo gun!
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 22, 2015, 08:29 PM:
 
Ok here's my setup. Haven't used photo bucket in quite a spell.

Anyway don't laugh too hard. Homemade bench, started as a wood pallet from work..

[ February 22, 2015, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 22, 2015, 08:49 PM:
 
Even got my side of the garage back !!

A man deserves @ least half of a garage..



[ February 22, 2015, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 23, 2015, 01:44 PM:
 
That works, if I was in the garage all year around, I wouldn't be doing any reloading in the summer!! Not in southern AZ
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 23, 2015, 06:32 PM:
 
Ok, only thing missing is my damn barrel!

I really like my bolt handle though.. However, I feel it has too much bling, so its going to be cerakote w/ the rest of the components...


 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 24, 2015, 03:16 AM:
 
In Arizona having a place indoors is reqd. much too hot in the garage. I started out with half the laundry room then When we moved into a house we used to rent out I got my own room. Its my Office , mancave , reloading room. only 12x15 but all mine.

[ February 24, 2015, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on February 24, 2015, 03:20 AM:
 
Love the bolt and handle looks great.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 24, 2015, 06:36 AM:
 
Fur, you're a good guy, love your enthusiasm, etc. but that bolt handle is, (what's the word) overkill? I don't like it, one bit. Sorry.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on February 24, 2015, 03:49 PM:
 
Oh c'mon, Leonard. Here's a guy who is watching the world unfurl before him. He'll be over it soon enough. At least he quit with the BB gun stuff. I agree with your assessment, however. No amount of paint is going to fix that.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 24, 2015, 05:24 PM:
 
1 thumbs up, 2 thumbs down ..
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 24, 2015, 07:12 PM:
 
Fur, what's that song ? if it makes ya happy it can't be that bad. Sheryl Crow, I think..

That's kinda how, I feel about your bolt. It's all good man.

Us old farts are a "tad" conservative, can't help ourselves..It's our nature..

Keep it real..
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 24, 2015, 07:32 PM:
 
I used to have all my reloading gear out in a shed, freezing in winter, with lube tacky and fingertips numb, summer was vicious with biting bugs down back of my neck under the light.
For many years now Ive had a designated man cave, all the room I need plus climate controlled conditions.
[URL=http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Az-Hunter_2006/media/gunroom_zpsypr7jv1s.jpg.html] [/U RL]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on February 24, 2015, 07:53 PM:
 
That's a nice setup you have there Vic.

BTW, couldn't help but to notice the map pinned up to the right. That's a topo plastic one, right ?

I have four of those that represent my hunting/recreation area, that need pinned up by my bench.URL=http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/doyle1248/media/DSCN6285_zpsqfrjyuai.jpg.html] [/U RL]
(edit) screwin' with photobucket. Notice the space heater ? bad thing about winter, it can be 25-30 degrees in an insulated garage.

Love to view those maps as references ect..

[ February 24, 2015, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on February 24, 2015, 08:21 PM:
 
Damn Vic, only thing missing is an Arbor press..
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on February 25, 2015, 05:38 AM:
 
Good eye Dave; that is a topo map of my area of operation, although it is beginning to fade.
Those Dillons are the cats ass Fur, I can take my time and still crank out 400 rounds an hour. I have on old RCBS Rock Chucker for the meticulous stuff, and I can't imagine what it can't do, that an arbor press can?
As you submerge deeper into the reloading game, you'll figure out how far you want to wade. Some guys are rabid about every step, sorting cases, reaming primer pockets, weighing bullets, trickling powder....it can go on and on.
Im a simpleton, I load them, then shoot them. About the only function I perform on loading prep, is to make sure my cases are trimmed to proper length. Ive never cleaned a primer pocket in my life, and lean to powders that flow well thru my powder dump. That's about the only reloading compulsions I have?
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 25, 2015, 06:23 AM:
 
Just sayin'...
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 25, 2015, 10:15 AM:
 
Furs bolt knob looks like one of those flashlights cops like to beat the fuck out of people with.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 25, 2015, 11:49 AM:
 
I've seen Vic's man cave. The most impressive, (and understated), is the lion pelt hanging behind the door, on the opposite wall.

However, (small point) I would beg to differ on the Rockchucker versus arbor press/straight line seating argument.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 02, 2015, 07:57 PM:
 
Yup, its a good day.. I got my 22", not 21" inch barrel in today. Looks pretty good so far.

Off to cerakote.



[ March 03, 2015, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 10, 2015, 12:46 PM:
 
So, I did an impulse buy at sportsmans and got the hornady concentric checker.

I plan to use it to verify concentricity ; however, it allows u to "push" the bullet to tweak it within tolerance.. hmm.. not sure about that, but I'll be using it for run out..

so far, my 223 loads only have 1 mil of run-out.
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 10, 2015, 04:14 PM:
 
Interesting, I've never used one. Maybe I should ?

I have a small piece of glass came off an end table or something ? Anyway, I bust out the ol' bubble level thingy, find something level and roll a few across it and check for wobble.

So far so good ?
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 11, 2015, 10:59 AM:
 
Hey Dave,

I bought it to use as a final round check. If my run-out is as good or better than high quality aftermarket bullets, I 'll conclude I'm doing something right..

Also, if I screw up my seating die, it will clue me in..

I also have a theory that "flyers" sometimes come from one round with a grossly different variable than the others.. I'm thinking it could be run-out sometimes.. But, what the hell do I know, I only started reloading like a few weeks ago..

I can't see how you can know run-out using your calibrated eye method. lol The internet says round-out needs to be better than 2 to 3 mils.. Should be less run-out for shorter bullets like those loved 223 rounds..
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 11, 2015, 12:21 PM:
 
In an accurate rifle, more than .003 is going to be noticeable in your groups.

In a rifle that can only average .5 MOA on a "good day" and when "you do your part", .003 isn't really detectable on target. Say, .005 might be?

If you can't see .003+ with your naked eyeball rolling them on glass, you need new fucking eyeballs. I can see .005+ without even bothering to roll them - it's plainly visible just sitting there.

That said, measurement of such is good. Precision is where you are at, or at least where you are trying to go, so be precise about it, and measure. Runout can be introduced in many ways. They may be cumulative. Measuring at each step is the best way to learn this.

Don't use that idiotic straightening feature though. Use the measurement to figure out where in your process the runout is being introduced and eliminate it.

If you are good at paying attention and learning as you go, you'll probably only use the tool for a relatively short time, before you figure out how to prevent runout in the first place. Then it becomes redundant, and you'll quit using it.

I know I have not touched a concentricity checker for a lot of years. No need to. I know how to prevent runout from ever occurring.

All I do now is roll them across the bench to make sure I haven't gone astray.

But the concentricity checkers I bought way back when the world was young taught me a few things, that I'm glad I learned, and I'd buy them again. Even though I have no real use for them anymore.

Being able to check case thickness variation at the web is far more useful than being able to straighten ammo, too, BTW... NECO is the only one I ever owned that can do that, but I'm way out of touch on what is available these days.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 11, 2015, 02:22 PM:
 
Great info! Thanks...
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 11, 2015, 06:33 PM:
 
Good post Dave. I always enjoy your perspective.

Fur, I sure hope you didn't think, I was questioning your purchase. Not at all, it very well might be a good thing as you learn.

Somebody ? told me years ago about rolling a round across a piece of glass and you'd be able to tell if something was wrong.

I'm really not into a bunch of these technical terms. Nor' am I a techy guy..

I'm not bragging in any way at all. I've handloaded for several rifles in several calibers, all factory rigs, trigger work, sometimes glass bedding ect..

They have all shot less than 1" 5-shot groups, mostly 3/4" with the lucky 1/2" here or there.

What can I say ? I'm just a hillbilly
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 11, 2015, 11:43 PM:
 
Im with you Dave; about the only place a cartridge gets rolled around in my operation, is on the floorboard of the truck. Do I sometimes wish I had the enthusiasm to be precise and exacting in my reloading, sure, but that was a long time ago. Im basically lazy, and just want to get it done. I make sure Im sober, use the right powder, primer and bullet, then yank and crank to reach the goal of rounds to be loaded for the season.
Ive reloaded for dozens and dozens of rifles, in dozens and dozens of calibers, and like Dave, I have a hard time remembering the few that wouldn't shoot, a couple Ruger #1s' of course, which isn't odd for that model, and one or two Winchesters, which I don't know why I owned them in the first place.
Most all of the rifles Ive owned, both factory, with modest work done to them and custom rifles Ive bought or traded into, all shot pretty damned tight with the right load.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 12, 2015, 04:52 AM:
 
Its all good Dave..

For me, its the fun of figuring out how shit works..

Another good day.. I got a bottle of H1000 for another rifle..

I now have H335, IMR 4166, Varget, and H1000. The powder empire is building..
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 16, 2015, 07:58 PM:
 
After playing with the Hornady for a few days, I decided I needed something better. I got the only one available at Sportsmans, RCBS concentric tool. Overall much nicer! If you get into the details, I believe neck run-out is a must measurement.

Strange thing is that the RCBS measures runout by a factor of two higher than Hornady! Tried four type of bullets in various calibers. I think the RCBS is more accurate. Hornady depends on the ogive radius.

Oh yeah, I was measuring runout after sizing with my new hornady dies AND lock-n-load bushings. My friends have told me they really like the hornady die design. Anyway, I experimented with two 7mm mag cases shot with my savage. Neck Runout before sizing was ~1 mil. After sizing, the run-out reduced by half. I'm pretty happy. I was really nervous about the lock-n-load bushings because you can see the die float (under LOAD) with respect to the rock chucker press. It MUST be self aligning which produces nice straight brass!



[ March 16, 2015, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 17, 2015, 05:58 AM:
 
Floating is good. Guys have been using O-rings under standard dies to achieve the same effect since before I was born.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2015, 07:10 AM:
 
So, what model is that press? I don't think I have seen one exactly like it before? It's extreme right handed, which is never a bad thing.

Good hunting. El Bee

PS I really can't get excited about that lockandload shit. Never had a problem with threaded dies and never used O rings and never suffered from runout problems and never resorted to rolling cartridges on the tabletop, etc.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 17, 2015, 09:33 AM:
 
Just like with so many things, you don't know , what you don't know.. The concentric checker helps..

That press came from a kit, I believe it was the explorer.

I highly recommend the lock-n-load, a quarter twist and your dies come off and put it back on and your settings are kept. very cool.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 17, 2015, 09:49 AM:
 
Well, it's not too burly, if you ever get into case forming. The ram on my RCBS AmmoMaster is one inch in diameter, for instance.

But, resizing Ackley cases is just about the least strenuous work you can do on a press, so I suspect no problems.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit, I might have to check that for accuracy, I think it's larger than one inch?

edit: pay no attention. I sound totally negative and that's not my intent. I love to see new recruits, you guys represent the Last Of The Mohicans, and your ranks are not increasing. Not enough, anyway. Breed vigorously and habitually.

[ March 17, 2015, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 18, 2015, 06:29 PM:
 
Not much more to say, its ready for break in!

Here's the total tally..

Stevens 200 = $250
Stock - B&C Medalist = $268
Barrel - Mcgowen ; threaded, chambered,
varmit contour = $240 (excellent deal)
trigger - SSS = $102
SSS competition recoild lug = $28
SSS bolt handle = $40
SSS custom bolt flute = $50
go gauge / install = $30
Scope Rail = $39.99
Cerakote = $230
Barrel cap = $65

Total = $1343

The local gunsmith did a great job on the cerakote and barrel cap..I hope it shoots as well as it looks..

Thanks for all the help guys!







[ March 18, 2015, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 18, 2015, 07:11 PM:
 
I still think it's awfully flashy, but it's not mine. I just got caught up on this thread. You know, I absolutely hated going inside the same building, seeing the same things, smelling the same smells (I can still smell them to this day), and doing the same tedious work for 10 hours a day, BUT, having several years background as an aerospace machinist makes reloading a snap for me. Do the same thing, the same way, EVERYTIME. All these fancy gadgets they sell to promote and check that facet amazes me.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 19, 2015, 03:34 AM:
 
Heck dude, I'm psyched for ya F&D!!!

This thread is proof of the time & consideration you put into that rifle. And when you finally get to shoot & hunt with it, you're gonna smile all the wider with every hit you make...

Congrats man & have a ball with your new goodie!!!

P.S. it ain't too flashy (says the guy with purple & orange rifles)

Here's a Black & Tan to go with your Black & Tan rifle...cheers!

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2015, 07:58 AM:
 
Obviously, there are many versions of the perfect rifle for a specific application. There are things about this build that wouldn't interest me, too many to list, starting with the action choice and barrel maker, but hey?

I think there is way too much glass and kinda scratch my head at the stock configuration?

Okay, now nobody start with negative comments!

When I was this guy's age I couldn't afford a custom rifle, that's for sure.

I sure hope it shoots and the velocity is where it should be?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 19, 2015, 08:47 AM:
 
Even at this point, the build configuration still meets my objectives.. Yes, its heavier and more optical power than the classic 22-250 killer.. and I realize the shiny bolt face will be as shiny in the desert.

I couldn't argue if this gun is more characterized as a long range varmit gun. I guess its not a true coyote gun, but it will shoot pretty at the range AND sit pretty on my bipod in the desert.

But, there was a few new items that I wanted to try.. I wanted to test out a varmit contour barrel, also will be a good platform for the silencer (still not here)

You guys may or may not have heard much about Mcgowen, but many hardcore savage guys like this brand. Actually, the gun smithing work needs to be as high quality as the barrel.

The stock options are not huge for the savage, but I am not ready to waste $$ on a McMillan (poke, poke). I believe your paying extra for the name, kinda like I did for the nighforce (maybe). Their stocks are high quality, but this one is aluminum bedded and if I do a good "bedding" , I don't see why this stock would not be just as good in terms of accuracy and save me $500 bucks.

About the new Nightforce, its the "cheap" Nightforce. ;-) I love this scope, the reticle is fabulous.. I am testing it out and plan to switch this to my 7mm mag. I really, really like it. So glad I saved a little more to go better than the vortex PST.

Any case, the fun begins. I'll post up honest groups, crossing my fingers. Do you guys believe in breaking a barrel? Wonder what the nondetailed Jimanaz's would do?

[ March 19, 2015, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 19, 2015, 11:23 AM:
 
Thanks for not wasting $$$ on a McMillan. That means I'm one customer closer to getting my other orders filled...
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 19, 2015, 11:59 AM:
 
Nah, McMillan is not a waste..
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 19, 2015, 12:29 PM:
 
Since you asked...
I'm not a big advocate of "proper barrel break in". I've been known to take a rod with me, but not often. I would run a few patches thru it before shooting it the first time, swab it again after the first few shots (I usually use a bore snake), and depending on the length of the session, maybe another time or 2. Clean it again thoroughly when you get back home. Take note of how quickly it cleans up and how it feels.

As for the details, I guess what I said is maybe not exactly fair. I have a lot of stuff in my toolbox that do the things these gimicky things do. My point is/was, repetition. Once you get the hang of it and get the feel, keep on keepin' on. Like a baseball player's ritual at the plate. From placing your brass in the shell holder to the pressure on the press...consistency makes quality. Making every round perfect may make a competition benchrest guy's weekend, but is of little use to a guy who's intent is to let the air out of a few coyotes.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 19, 2015, 01:01 PM:
 
I'd ask the barrel maker, but there are as many methods for breaking in as imaginable. Hardly none of them make an appreciable difference.

Remember, jimbo, this is a dual purpose rig. One he could win a match with. At least I hope so.

(my son is a five axis setup machinist, kinda cool)

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 19, 2015, 04:43 PM:
 
Barrel break in:

Here's what I do. Sometimes I buy a box of factory stuff, or whip up some basic hand loads.

I clean after every round while getting on paper @ 100 yards, this usually takes 5-7 rounds.

Make whatever scope adjustment needed and fire a 3 shot group and clean again. And fire a fouler, after that I clean about every 15-20 rounds.

Always firing a fouler after cleaning, when developing loads. As times goes on, I clean whenever I think about it.

JMO..

[ March 19, 2015, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 19, 2015, 06:08 PM:
 

quote:

---

Remember, jimbo, this is a dual purpose rig. One he could win a match with. At least I hope so.

(my son is a five axis setup machinist, kinda cool)

---

I think of my 250AI the same way, but after the first few rounds of the session, don't spend much time with QC. If your setup and process are good, so is the product.

I have no idea what the technology is today, but back in the early 80's, the outfit I worked for was on the edge of it. We had the first, and only 5 axis centers in PHX, as far as I know. Those Pratt and Whitney Vikings were pretty cool alright, and there were only a few of us they would let near them.
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 20, 2015, 03:22 AM:
 
Proper barrel break in video tutorial
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 20, 2015, 05:25 AM:
 
whoa..

[ March 20, 2015, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 20, 2015, 09:02 PM:
 
I know you guys are waiting at your computers for an update... lol

It was a pretty good day. The rifle and new chrony worked flawlessly which is half the battle.

I shot some PPU rounds and a few hand loads. For the reloads, used IMR 4166 at 75% of recommended max. This can go hotter!

Got around 3320 fps for 55 grns (PPU) and 3110 for 60 grns (Lapua reloads). These are not hot loads.

Shot about 15 total , here's my first group at 100 yards after the fouler.

I just ordered some bushing's for my Redding dies, so the fun will continue..

I'm stoked.

Glad I cleaned the barrel several times..





[ March 20, 2015, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 20, 2015, 09:11 PM:
 
Why 75% of max? Load that puppy to max and then work up from there. Your case will form better and you will get better accuracy. Remember the pressure is forming the case. You should have no problem loading max .22-250 Rem. Loads.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 09:01 AM:
 
IMR 4166 is new and not in the books; I have found a few loads on their website; so I'm working my way up..

So, when fire forming , do you guys put the bullet to the lands to reduce risk of necking the body?

The Lapua brass(fire formed) does not seem tight when closing the bolt w/ these loads..

[ March 21, 2015, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2015, 09:39 AM:
 
Completely normal. As was suggested, whether that powder is new or not, and for whatever reason you chose it, I bet Hodgdons HAS data for 22-250Rem. Use that data with no concern. Your (present) velocities are not worth considering, start over and forget about shooting 5X groups while you establish a max load. (whether you use it or not) since your second fireformed loads are what counts.

In a 22-250AI I have yet to see a situation where plain old H414 would not give adequate and satisfactory results. Not saying you should use it, but it's a good benchmark against whatever else you deem worthy. Caveat, assuming 55-65 grain bullets. Heavier might call for a slightly different burning rate?

It's a little early to frown at the accuracy, but I would expect a lot closer together. I know next to nothing about McGowan barrels but I think sub minute of angle should be a reasonable expectation? Actually, the first I ever heard of them, many years ago, they used to have a little one inch ad in American Rifleman, maybe 1950's or so? That's it. My fault for not keeping up, maybe they are now world beaters?

So, how do your shoulders look? Explain that question about:

quote:

---

when fire forming , do you guys put the bullet to the lands to reduce risk of necking the body?

---

I think all you need to be concerned with is firing a full charge load. Understand that your brass will be shorter than standard and will stay that way forever. The shoulder engagement should take care of itself on the reloads, assuming proper shoulder bump....or am I missing something?

Keep on keping on.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: one thing I guess should be pointed out. this is a little more difficult than ordinary because most people have years of experience in handloading before they try a nonstandard case like an Ackley. This is sure to complicate the process. Scratch that. No, not for sure, just possibly.

[ March 21, 2015, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2015, 09:51 AM:
 
Hodgdon:
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

(edit) looks like 36.2 grains of 4166 is max with a 55gr bullet.
(edit) Varget shows 36.5 grains for same bullet.

I think you had mentioned 4166 was comparable to Varget ? that would sure seem so. I'm not sure what reloading book or books you might have. I'd just use the Varget load info and work from there.

[ March 21, 2015, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2015, 09:59 AM:
 
Also like Leonard said. I wouldn't be worried right now about the bullet ogive contacting the lands.

After a known load is established, then you can tinker a bit with seating depth to see if that improves anything in your groups.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 21, 2015, 10:55 AM:
 
I fireformed my AI with Varget and Berger 55 grain bullets. Went to the Berger manual for standard .22-250 and loaded a few at the max. 35.5 grains. Looked good so I went to 36.5 grains.Still no problems so went to 37.0 grains. Still just fine but accuracy was great so I left it.

Could have gone more but the cases formed perfectly and accuracy was as good as with the formed case.that's 1.5 grains over max.

So when fireforming that's why I said you can start at max and work up.

And I second Leonards recommendation of H414. Fast and Accurate as hell in the 22-250AI .
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 21, 2015, 11:11 AM:
 
Explain why you started fireforming by shortening your Lapua brass nine thou.? I'll go out on a limb and say that was unnecessary and possibly counterproductive? Unless you have a good reason? Like you mic'ed the chamber?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 12:19 PM:
 
Just to be clear, I was using data from the Hodgdon website for a 60 grn. I used 33 grains, which was lower than max. I'm finding out that max values may still be conservative like UT pointed out..

Ok, I'll adjust.

To echo back, the idea is to find a max load because 1) its faster 2) max tends to be more accurate. After finding this particular load, start fire-forming.

This is what my brass looks like.

top row; PPU round; unformed lapua
bottom row; formed PPU, formed lapua

One of my bench rest buddies recommended to set the bullet to the lands while fire forming. This is done to insure the brass is up against the bolt which reduces local body necking (thin section above primer). I'll have to research this some more. If I do this , the 60 grn bullet will need to be .1" fwd of recommended 22-250 COL. I did this by modifying a formed case to produce low neck tension and carefully measured COL touching lands. Interesting.

The item that didn't sink in is shoulder bump. Are you saying that if its formed w/ max load, you can't close the bolt on an empty round? I can w/ these..

thx

[ March 21, 2015, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 12:24 PM:
 
---removed for another day --

[ March 21, 2015, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 12:28 PM:
 
LB, this was just an observation when taking some measurements.

If I measure tip to tail on a new piece of brass and than compare it after its was fire formed, I noticed that it shortened.. didn't know what to expect, makes sense since it forms the 40 degree

thx

[ March 21, 2015, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 21, 2015, 01:02 PM:
 
That is correct. Don't worry that the max standard 22-250 says its faster than your max fireforming load its because of the lack of pressure you have blowing your case out. Probably confusing but here's an example. Say you are shooting a standard 22-250 with 36.5 grains of Varget and it chronographs at 3680 fps . Then you fireform a 22-250 AI with the exact same load ( 36.5 grains of Varget) you probably won't get the 3680 fps. Because the standard .22-250 will have more pressure in the case. Whereas the Ackley is blowing the case out to AI so the pressure is expanding the case. The reason I mention this is that is what happened when I fireformed. I shot about 150 fps slower than standard .22-250 that's why you can go over max when fireforming. Hope that made sense.

And I agree with Dave Allen about not worrying to much about the lands while fireforming. You can tinker when you are loading up the Ackley .

[ March 21, 2015, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Aaron Rhoades (Member # 4234) on March 21, 2015, 04:15 PM:
 
Fur, the reason for loading bullets to the lands is for safety so you don't get case separation. It is not the ideal way to do it but if your chamber was cut too deep, it would help. Ideal is chamber .003-.004 short of standard 22-250 so you have a crush fit when you chamber a standard 22-250 so that the case cannot move except to blow out. Make sense?
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2015, 05:09 PM:
 
Oh' yeah. Another thing make sure your loaded rounds fit in the magazine !!

I just remembered last time out, my rounds are just a "hair" long. I loaded 100 rounds several months ago and forgot to check.

I'll be in my reloading room/garage seating 'em a hair deeper.

Later..
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 05:15 PM:
 
Yup, makes sense.

[ March 21, 2015, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2015, 07:10 PM:
 
Like I say check. We all make mistakes. It turns out only 40 were .010 long.

Remembering I'd loaded 60 and was out of 53gr bullets and couldn't find any more, so reset the die and loaded some 55gr SP's.

Eventually found some more 53gr Sierra's and forgot to reset the die.

Stuff happens, it's the shits to be on stand and be unable to load the mag.

What, I was really trying to say in all of this is, in regards to the bullet touching the lands and such, is it might not matter if one is unable to fit rounds in the magazine. If a guy can, cool !

I have a CZ in .204 there is no way to reach the lands and still have rounds fit in the mag. Yet the damn thing is a shooter !!
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 21, 2015, 07:44 PM:
 
Well noted Dave..

If fire-forming on the range, no mag is required, but if I take my time and fire form during hunting sessions , that's a different scenario.

I checked my mag, seems to have mucho room even with the bullet sticking out an additional .1"!
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 21, 2015, 08:14 PM:
 
Kool..
 

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Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on March 29, 2015, 03:33 PM:
 
Any updates Fur ?

I've been patiently waiting by the computer for a week now..
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on April 02, 2015, 11:52 AM:
 
Hey Dave,

Thanks for asking..;-)

I fire formed a few lapua w/ H414 at max 22-250 specs (not ackley case volume)and loving it.. H414 will be the first powder to test first for accuracy. Still need to determine max load. But, I have an issue. Savage's are known not to be nearly as accurate if the rear tang is not free floating. Mine is firming contacting. Also, I needed to space the action via tape so the barrel would align with respect to the stock. So, I've decided this thing needs a bed job. Next on the list before seriously doing accuracy testing (month delay).

After, I'll be posting up load development and groups.

However, I've been practicing with my current coyote killer in 223 and recently found a major problem.

Maybe you guys can help.

I've been using Redding dies (not the s-type), the cheaper ones. After shooting about 15 reloads, I checked case run-out before reloading them again. The measurement was taken between the forward edge and shoulder (middle of neck). I was shocked, on average the run out was at least 5 mils. Out of 15, a few were really, really bad. One was 13 mil mil ;-(

I'll post the link to the loads later.

This measurement was taken right after fire forming (or shooting the round), so I quickly concluded that my chambering is fucked. However, the gun still shoots pretty damn good?!

So, my issue is this. During the reload process, I want to take these f'up cases and resize them. Using the standard process, I noticed after completely resizing, run-out would reduce by half or almost stay the same on some. Not good.

So, here's the interesting part. If I REMOVE the inner ball, and just size the OD. All the cases showed excellent run-out. Even the trashed ones were between 1 to 2 mils. However, including the ball to size ID, the OD run-out would get trashed again. This proves (I think) that my die is not setup properly or the neck is formed such that the inner ball does not line-up properly. But, don't know how to fix? Any suggestions?

A hornady die set is on order..

[ April 02, 2015, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2015, 01:09 PM:
 
No, actually, it sounds like you need a bushing die if it's the ball that is pulling your necks out of shape. The only thing is, you might have to do a partial outside neck trim and then order the appropriate bushing based on your wall thickness. I'm not keen on Hornady dies, as a personal preference, but a lot of people like them. I'd consider canceling that order. They use an elliptical type of "ball" that I never found to be all that special, but seems logical?

Now, as to bedding, that's almost automatic where I come from, whether it's a target or used primarily for hunting. In my book, it's always worthwhile. Been so long since I messed with a Savage, not sure but it sounds like a similar deal as with Mausers which can be sprung if the rear action screw is tighter than just "snug".

In rereading, I might be confused about your issues? But, let's keep the issues pertaining to the new build. 223's aren't hardly worth worrying about. (personal opinion)

So, as far as H414 and max loads; I assume your max load will be your accuracy load so don't worry too much with testing for accuracy until you have a fireformed case and a nominal "max load. My definition of max load is my working load, and in that case, it will probably be about a grain, 1 1/2 grains under flattened primers? A lot of people say Huh? about flat primers but that's where I gauge my progress and then back off to allow for ambient temperature fluctuations. Possibly, firing pin cratering could be a factor, since it's not a Remington but I generally look for moderately flat primers before cratering.

With a 22-250Ackley, it's not necessary to shoot really hot loads, the case design already allows you to operate at higher pressures than most other shapes.

Good luck, LB
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on April 02, 2015, 01:27 PM:
 
You have that Savage on a B & C stock with an aluminum block correct? I got 4 of them setup on Savages that I swap stuff around like Legos.
Took a grinder to that fat forearm and worked em down to copy the look of a McMillian gamescout stock.
Have not needed to bed any of them.

Pay special attention to how you torque the action screws on the Savage. You might want to try that before you bed.
Then again alittle bedding never hurts if you are not swapping barreled actions around.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on April 02, 2015, 07:20 PM:
 
Kelley,

What torque values do you used on your savages? Thx

LB, as always, thx for the info..

Tonight, I loaded up some rounds using the s-type Redding dies. Love the seater.

53 grn sierra w H414

43.0
43.5
43.9
44.25
44.7

Off to the range bright and early

[ April 02, 2015, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 02, 2015, 07:59 PM:
 
If these are fireforming loads, there is no need for the different weights of propellant. 44.0 grains of H414 is perfect for the 53 Sierra in fireforming. In fact that's my exact load with 65 grain bullets.

Blowing out your cases is a tedious chore, but you won't accomplish much with the different charge weights, just shoot 'em, AND then with your modified cases, that's when you want to dial in what the rifle likes best; small changes in charge weight and seating depth. Are you using 210M?

In any case, those loads should be fairly accurate, the 53 flat base always worked well for me, in 220Swift. As a working load in your Improved configuration, I would try at least a 55 grain bullet. As I have said before, in the two I own, I use nothing but 62-64 and 65 grain bullets. But, I forget what your twist is?

I think you will be very satisfied with terminal performance.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 03, 2015, 03:41 AM:
 
Fur, I agree with Leonard. Find a charge that shoots decent and blows your shoulder forward nicely & run with it...

As for your .223 dilemma, there's a potential 'issue' with you removing the expander...

Surely you've read of running bushing dies without an expander, that is common practice. However, that is not a good idea when using a standard sizer die.
Reason being, a standard sizer die is designed differently, and the neck portion of the die actually squeezes the brass' neck down "too small" on the down stroke of the press. On the upstroke, it is the expander ball's 'job' to open the neck ID back up when pulled back through. This process is what creates the necessary neck tension to hold a bullet...
Without an expander, a standard sizer die will squeeze the neck down too small, with no means to open it back up for easily seating a bullet.
With a bushing die, it is the bushing itself that dictates how much the neck is squeezed down, that's why there's no need for an expander...

When I was using standard Redding sizer dies, I upgraded the expander to the floating carbide ones. Try one, that might help your runout issue?

LINKY poo

Anyhoo, feel free to start a new thread about your .223 and surely we could help get ya squared away!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2015, 09:28 AM:
 
Hmm? What they won't think of next? I never heard of that floating expander before? Might be just what is needed, IF it's the expander ball that is causing extreme run out? Of course, since this is a new handloader, maybe he is not doing the things in case prep that a lot of us do? For instance, I always run a nylon brush down the necks lubricated with a short spray of WD40. For me, it provides just enough "lube" to make the upstroke effortless, no "screech", in other words.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: just thought of something else. He may not have that expander ball centered properly? Sometimes, they "ping" on the upstroke if not centered and tightened down while the decaping pin is centered in the primer hole?

[ April 03, 2015, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on April 03, 2015, 09:51 AM:
 
LB, I probably didn't mention that the powder loads stated have formed cases; my intent is to find max load.

Got back from range. Awesome morning. here's the tally.

lapua brass
10 mils from lands
210M primers
H414
53 sierra match

43 grn- 3752 fps
43.5 grn- 3754 fps
43.9 grn - 3783 fps
44.3 grn - 3817 fps ( showed slight bolt markings on aft face of brass)

I think I'm getting close or there for max load. What do u guys think?

For a 22"inch barrel that doesn't seem too bad for velocity

koko - about the dies, I was in diagnostics mode, I wouldn't try and seat a bullet with OD sizing only; I'd probably crush the bullet due to extreme neck tension..

LB - Ok, you gave me an idea (ball setting) I need to try..

thx.

P.S. Oh, you'll love this..There was a guy at the range that spent over 5k on a special rifle that is worth almost 10k. First day on the range. I saw him take his first shot. The 128 grain bullet going WAY over 3000 fps turned completely sideways. At 25 yards!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2015, 10:14 AM:
 
I'm just guessing, but I don't think your velocities are max'ed out? But, they "may" be max'ed with H414?

The last time I shot 55 grain bullets in my 22-250Ackley, I was getting about 4400fps. With a 28" barrel.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on April 03, 2015, 10:40 AM:
 
F&D
.001" = one thousandth
.010" = ten thousandths
.100" = one hundred thousandths

"Mils" are an angular measurement, not a numerical value.

One thing to add about the floating bolt head of Savage/Stevens actions...
It was a genius design that effectively helps mask sloppy tolerances when chambers are cut non-concentric to the bore line.
Tight tolerances in machine work cost $$$, so the Savage bolt design allows them to build a rifle on the cheap that shoots, despite them having less than marvelous concentricity along the bore's axis...

That's how/why a Savage can still shoot with a "fucked" chamber...

[ April 03, 2015, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 03, 2015, 11:36 AM:
 
Took me a while to figure out what the hell Fred was talking about: "10 mils from lands"

Go easy on him, he's an engineer, after all.

Good hunting. El Bee

edit:

quote:

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That's how/why a Savage can still shoot with a "fucked" chamber...

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quote:

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I have some hope since the ATF is involved in the transaction

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Yep.....that would settle my concerns also! Ha!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 22, 2015, 07:18 AM:
 
ditto ha
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 06, 2015, 04:40 PM:
 
I got a call from a FFL last night.. Just picked up my silencer!

They wouldn't tell me what happened, but ATF did not allow the original seller to complete the transaction..

Glad it worked out.. Next step, get the stock bedded, and continue to work up some loads..
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 08, 2015, 11:14 AM:
 
Things are coming together..

Last session, I tried some 60 grains using H414 at 43 grains.. I got 3650 fps..

This morning I tried the suppressor for the first time using the same loads.. After barrel warmup, I shot a .46" group which is not a bad start..



The suppressor really brings down the dB's!! Its amazing how it sounds versus the energy going down range. It works perfect w no issues. Very happy I got the titanium version, minimizes the weight. It does feel more front heavy than I'm used to..

Since the 60's look promising, I might do load development on these. I might tailor back the bedding job to only the recoil lug area and make sure the rear tang is not touching..

At this point, I can go out and knock some critters.. I just might do that..

PS. The can is worth every freakin penny.

[ May 08, 2015, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2015, 12:07 PM:
 
3650fps with that length barrel-60grain bullet sounds like what I would expect? You can try other powders but with that bullet weight, H414 is what I'd use, and the accuracy seems very adequate.

So, how much did that fancy can wind up costing, for every penny?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: to me for the red tape and the cost, I feel it's kind of a rip off.

[ May 08, 2015, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on May 08, 2015, 03:14 PM:
 
You will probably see an increase in velocity with the can. I would recommend watching for signs of pressure when adding the suppressor.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 08, 2015, 06:40 PM:
 
Thanks for the heads up..I believe I am seeing signs of pressure because the bolt extraction is tight.. I was playing around with the empty brass and I found it difficult to close the bolt.. However, the primers are not moving out of the pockets , but it seems to be cratering just a bit..

What I don't understand , is that I used the redding body die and the bolt still closes hard . A new piece of lapua brass and it goes in very easy.. Trying to figure out the dimension that is making the bolt close hard..

I think it's time to drop down by one grain and see how it goes.. You agree?
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 08, 2015, 06:44 PM:
 
LB,

That can was $1100 plus a $200 tax stamp to Uncle Sam ..

Ridiculously over priced? Yes.. Worth every penny? Yes!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2015, 07:11 PM:
 
Geezus, that's roughly 433 half gallons of the best orange juice money can buy!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: or 162 gallons of Costco's organic orange juice. I'm just putting it in terms that anyone can understand. LB

edit: for the time being, I would use a full length sizing die, why are you using the body die, anyway?

edit: when you get a minute, would you please justify the cost. That should be easy for an assessory worth every penny. For that price, you should get a "twofer" every time you pull the trigger!

[ May 08, 2015, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on May 08, 2015, 07:42 PM:
 
Remember when you could hear, Leonard? Yeah, me neither. And the scary part is I still hear better than a lot of people in my age group. We didn't wear helmets or knee and elbow pads when riding our bikes. If shooting suppressed gives him an edge when he reaches codger status, and he can afford it, more power to him. Guys like you and me don't see the cost/result thing cuz weez already fukt. I still don't agree with the 20" barrel though.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 08, 2015, 08:13 PM:
 
I'm hung a little more.. 22". :-)
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on May 08, 2015, 08:15 PM:
 
Fur, the problem you describe sounds like a sizing problem, not a pressure problem. Can't say as to your cratering primers....have had rifles that get a little primer flow regardless of powder charge. I look for things like flattened primers and stiff bolt lift when looking for pressure problems.

What can did you get Fur?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 08, 2015, 08:24 PM:
 
I already suggested that, Geordie. But, he seldom pays attention to what I have to say so, good of you to chime in.

Jimanez, yeah, you have a point, hell, my hearing was shot before I was discharged from the military.

But, part of my bitch is the exorbitant cost. You realize, you can buy a very nice rifle for $1100, and that $200 tax is just wrong.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 08, 2015, 08:40 PM:
 
How's this for justifying an unneeded purchase ?

"I've wanted one all of my life and now I got one while I still got some life left !!!"

I may be too practical to buy a suppressor but I'm driving the coolest street legal dune buggy you ever saw !!!!!

Why ?? ................ Just because !!


 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 09, 2015, 04:12 AM:
 
He did say bolt lift is tight. So, sounds like he's as far as he needs to go. And maybe backing off isn't a bad idea.

Tight after sizing, they are either too long in the shoulder or too fat in the web.

Cam that sucker over hard, no daylight between the die and the shell holder. Don't typically have to do that, but do it. If they are still tight, you won the "bad fit between die and chamber" lottery. It happens...

- DAA
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 09, 2015, 06:09 AM:
 
Appreciate the feedback! Still absorbing everyone's comments..

This is what I've been doing..

I have a redding S type neck die set. Contains a neck die, body die, and competition seater.

I've been popping out the primer and using the bushing neck die to reduce the neck diameter. Finally, bullet is seated ..

I don't have a full length die! Doesn't seem the body die bumps shoulder? Is that correct?

This is my situation..

Edit: I think about everyone's comments here. Too much experience not too..

[ May 09, 2015, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2015, 06:32 AM:
 

quote:

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I think it's time to drop down by one grain and see how it goes.. You agree?

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By all means. If you "think" so?

Especially since we have no data as to how he came up with the specific load, in the first place.

What I do is increase the charge in increments until I see pressure signs; then back off about 1.5 grains; plus ambient temperature could be a factor? If loading a 223 or a seventeen, there is a different number, but for a case in the range of 22-250, something like 1 to1.5 grain, puts me in a safe range where I never have to worry about blown primers or short case life including split necks. I do not load hot. Max, but not hot. I might tempt fate in other ways, but I do not push my luck with ultra hot loads.

Arguably, there are several signs to look for, you can measure the web area with calipers before and after firing. you can check over all length, look for scuff marks on the head, etc.

In spite of all the folks that tell us not to worry about primers, I pay attention to primers. Maybe there is some useful indications and maybe not, but just disregarding primer condition after 47 years of reading those particular "tea leaves" is something I choose not to do. I'm old school.

Anyway, establish your baseline max load in conjunction with the chronograph and bolt lift and the visual factors. The speed can show you your "yield", when a certain charge increment results in benefit and when it's not doing a whole lot, or the reverse, if it jumps into freaky velocity. In other words, you need to analyze and evaluate as best you can. There are several things besides accuracy that helps you to establish a safe and accurate "max" load. Pay attention, and be careful.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 09, 2015, 07:45 AM:
 
Use the body die, FIRST.
Then, neck size.

Yes, the Redding body die can be set to ' bump' the shoulder back...

[ May 09, 2015, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 09, 2015, 09:29 AM:
 
With your feedback, I figured it out.. The shoulder needed to be bumped by .001"..

At first, I didn't think the body die bumped the shoulder because I set it to where the shell holder touched the die.. It needed to be turned an additional 1/8 or 1/4 turn for the bump (cam over) just like DAA sated..

Now, the bolt goes down nice and firm and not too tight.. And after body and neck die, run out is still good ..

Thanks! Everyone! :-)

[ May 09, 2015, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 09, 2015, 09:36 AM:
 
Cross, I got the Gemtech Sandstorm.. It's the titanium version.. This can supports up to a .308.

I wanted another that support up to 300 mag, but wasn't in stock. The best plan for these cans is to buy ONE and interchange with your rifles. You can literally buy one and go from 22lr to 300 mag.

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/SANDSTORM-10p48.htm

[ May 09, 2015, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 09, 2015, 10:22 AM:
 
I have to say; it does look like a good one!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 09, 2015, 03:39 PM:
 
Fur,

I just sent of $200 for a Silencerco Omega, which is also a titanium can and covers up to .300 Mag.
I got to hold it the other day, but now have to wait for the paperwork to clear before I can actually have it.

Glad to hear you like yours and like you I'm hoping to cover several rifles with it.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 09, 2015, 04:22 PM:
 
Yeah I would drop down a grain or 2. When I was loading H414 and the 60 grain Bergers in my .22-250 AI I think I maxed out at 42 grains.
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 10, 2015, 10:20 AM:
 
Lonny,

Go paper, not efile..

I put my paperwork mid dec, and got approval in March .. That's pretty fast.. Good luck.. I feel a little lucky to get my can under the circumstances..

Thanks for heads up UT.. I loaded some in 42 and 43 and carefully assessing ..
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 10, 2015, 12:12 PM:
 
The load that is working best for me now with the 60 grain Bergers is 38.2 grains of RL15 great accuracy and they are running around 3850 fps.

Really knocks the life out of the Coyotes.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 10, 2015, 06:07 PM:
 
LB, Thanks for the arbor press tip..

Love it. Getting excellent run out on the 223 and 7 mm mag rounds.. Keeping the redding S die for the 22-250 for now..


 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 10, 2015, 07:20 PM:
 
Fur,

I didn't know you could e-file? But this is my first rodeo doing this so it has been a learning process and spendy.

Is the e-file route quite a bit slower?
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on May 11, 2015, 05:44 AM:
 
Over a year ago, ATF implemented a efile system to speed things up.. It was an epic failure. FFL's were locking up the system left and right.. Finally, they pulled the plug to redesign it..

Not sure if it's on line yet.. Been almost a year, but I would stay away until proven. :-)
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on July 24, 2015, 03:10 PM:
 
Well, I.m wrapping this project up for now..

Figured out my forming load..

Figured out my hunting load..

I might do an accuracy load later this year when weather cools..

Today, I took the gun out and shot a coyote at 60 yards.. It really put the smack down, it was dead before it hit the ground.. Ended up using the 60 grain hollow point .. It entered and never exited! Nasty round..

The can is awesome.. Shot it with no ears on and it was fine.. Sounds like I'm shooting a 22 at a coyote..

Overall, the gun is heavy for long hiking trips, but that's really no surprise.

Thanks for all the help guys..

Ok, back to fishing!

[ July 24, 2015, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on July 24, 2015, 03:29 PM:
 
Sounds like your ready for action. It's always nice to be ready to roll for when the time comes.

Glad your can is working out. Got mine the other day. Took 2.5 months. Now its off to get the barrel threaded, next week hopefully.

Any suggestions on switching to a can? Start with a lighter load or anything along those lines? I have no experience with cans.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 25, 2015, 06:49 AM:
 
I have been reviewing all this shit and looking at the Gemtech site, it says surpressors aren't legal for civilians in The People's Republik? WTF!
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on July 26, 2015, 07:42 PM:
 
In my opinion, u need to be sensitive to bullet type in a can because the back pressure can be more challenging on an exiting bullet..

In the manuals, they basically say that its void if you shoot anything besides FMJ's..

So, that tells u something.. becareful.

If loading hot, best to make sure it leaves the barrel without a can first (good idea)..

Next is bullet type, I shoot a well made hollow point and stat away from fragile bullets like vmax's, etc..

I've posted this before, but its hard to find data to support a certain bullet and charge.

I don't shoot weak loads, so I develop a loading to my liking, and test without can. After, I shoot again w/ can and carefully inspect.

After that, hopefully, its repeatable..

[ July 26, 2015, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on July 26, 2015, 07:44 PM:
 
LB,

I own two Gemtech cans legally, so WTF!?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on July 26, 2015, 07:51 PM:
 
Yes, of course, smart ass. You are my hero.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on August 16, 2015, 10:41 AM:
 
Hey guys,

Wow. I got a new lot of .224 sierra 60 grain 1375's, and the ogive gauge is measuring a difference of .005 inch (length)from the other lot. This measurement is measuring only the bullet. That seems like alot to me, since this could screw up my dims for fire forming and hunting specs. Seems I'd need to remeasure the bullet in the barrel and verify the zero point (touching lands).

I wonder if other brands like berger are more consistent?

Thanks.

UPDATE: After posting this, I went to the man cave and took some measurements in the barrel. I put the new bullets in Lapua brass and gently closed the bolt into the lands. Turns out that my measurements were only .001 off from the other lot.. so, false alarm? The new lot must be slightly shorter in length , but Ogive shape is OK.

[ August 16, 2015, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
 

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