|
Author
|
Topic: To howl or not to howl
|
Wily E
unknown comic
|
posted August 29, 2010 05:04 PM
I recently took some time to get caught up on a few threads. I found one topic rather interesting and was quite surprised by the advise
I read. One poster advised against using howls at certain times of the year based on concerns with deterring less aggressive, dispersing young coyotes. This is the topic I would like to address here.
In the spirit of attacking the message as opposed to the messenger, I've read a lot of self defeating advise on various calling forums over the years that I disagreed with, such as calling with the wind in any and all situations, and I view this topic much the same.
Not being one to shy away from a good debate, I would welcome any arguments that could be presented to support not utilizing howling in many if not most calling situations.
Before I get into it, I once had a conversation with a well recognized professional competition caller who told me that they were calling a coyote or coyotes for every three stands. I found that interesting considering that I personally wasn't satisfied unless I was calling coyotes on every other stand. Not to boast but rather to make the point, in most competition hunts I have been able to call coyotes on every other stand. The disclaimers here are if I had the coyote population to work with, if I was able to do my homework in locating them, and if the ground conditions were favorable to approach without being heard or seen.
Anyway, it turns out that the difference in our calling styles is that this person doesn't utilize howling and I utilize howling on practically every stand I make. I have absolutely no doubts in my mind that howling would take this guy's success to an even higher level and I would bet a lot of money on it.
Yes, there is a lot more variables to consider than to think this was the only difference in our styles in each and every situation. I know those variables intimately but both of us have spent the better part of a lifetime calling and killing coyotes and howling was the only difference I could isolate in how we did things in areas of similar coyote numbers and calling pressure.
Assuming far more callers are utilizing rabbit distress and other similar distress calls in both the mouth call and e-calls than are howling, I believe howling becomes more and more important.
As coyotes get shot at and missed, they quickly associate those certain sounds with danger and they learn to differentiate between what sounds are real and what sounds are imitation. To believe otherwise is to not understand a coyote's hearing ability.
I have no doubts that the more authentic the sound, the more times a higher percentage of the coyote population can be fooled but coyotes learn and they learn quickly. This topic is not unlike the tolerance levels of individual coyotes towards human scent.
Everyone talks about the coyotes ability to smell but their hearing and eyesight are also very accute senses.
I know that coyotes will not quit eating rabbits and associating those distress sounds as dinner but I can assure you that coyotes, once called and shot, will differentiate between what is live and what is memorex. Heck, I can tell the difference between an actual coyote and the best electronic callers out there so why would anyone find it hard to believe it would be a problem for a coyote with their far superior hearing?
I also realize a new crop of coyotes is born every year but ADC trappers doing legitimate livestock protection work aren't working with the new crop, we are working with the old crop. If you can fool the old crop, the new crop is a piece of cake.
I realize that each coyote is an individual and that based on their life's experiences, they each have their own level of curiousity and caution that plays a role in how well they respond to calling.
I read recently where someone claimed that the quality of their electronic caller was so good that you could go back into the same areas and call the same coyote the next day after you burned them. I had to laugh. You might be able to do this a few times if you happen to be the first one that burned them but I am here to tell you that coyotes, once burned, will learn to differentiate between what is real and what is not and they will quickly associate what is not real with danger.
Case in point, I had to work a coyote complaint last fall near a small town in western SD. I located the coyotes and made my calling approach the following morning totally out of sight or smell of these coyotes. I voice howled and these coyotes readily answered me in their typical long drawn out answer which I could tell was coming from the valleys to the North. Shortly thereafter I used the female howl on the WT caller which is about as authentic as you can get from an e-caller. The silence was deafening for a short period of time then it was followed by distinct warning barks coming from the top of the hill to the side of the valley they previously responded from. I know a warning bark as well as I know my wife calling me for supper. These coyotes could not see or hear my approach and they weren't having none of the WT.
This was during early fall and I found out later that these same coyotes had been fox-proed by a local caller and sometimes he'd just call them in without a gun just to entertain himself. I too wondered if the quality of the WT was good enough to fool most coyotes until I experienced this.
The advantages to howling, regardless of the age or the social status of the coyotes you are working on are numerous.
In no particular order of importance, here are a number of those reasons (hope I don't have to read them in someone else's article):
1. Howling is a necessary and common element in typical coyote behavior for both social and territorial reasons even in areas of higher human disturbance where they howl less often.
2. Howling is a coyote confidence builder particularly in areas of higher calling pressure. I believe coyotes of all ages will approach more comfortably when they believe another coyote is present.
3. All howls used by coyote hunters are not the same. If a caller utilizes howling and cannot change the pitch and volume of his/her howls to duplicate various aged coyotes to adapt to various situations, they shouldn't be howling.
Bill Austin taught the calling world how to utilize the differences in the howls of coyotes of various age and sex and now the electronic world utilizes the same individual howls. With this in mind, why would anyone believe that the howl of a dispersing young coyote would pose a threat to a dispersing young coyote? As if all coyote howls have to sound old, male, and aggressive??? The logic of thinking all howls are a deterrant to young dispersing coyotes escapes me from that standpoint alone. If you are worried about it, try the young immature female coyote looking for her classmates howl.
4. Howling, in most cases due to volume and sound frequency, will allow you to reach greater distances than most distress calls. I have seen this time and time again. I can't count how many times I have had coyotes answer me after I howled and was unable to move them with distress calls. When I moved towards these coyotes, I could readily call them in with distress calls from e-callers and hand calls due the difference in the distance covered by each.
5. Coyotes tend to approach the stand slower when you howl even if followed by distress calls than they do if you are using only distress calls. This allows for better handling of coyotes and shot set up.
No wonder they miss so many on TV.
6. Last but certainly not least, many times coyotes will answer you so you know what direction to expect them to come from or you know where to head for your next stand.
That in itself is more than enough reason for me to howl on virtually every stand.
The sport of recreational coyote calling has become as much about outwitting the other callers in the area as it is about outwitting the coyotes in the area.
Let the games begin.....
~SH~
[ August 29, 2010, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
IP: Logged
|
|
Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
|
posted August 29, 2010 05:26 PM
No argument here...I dont howl on every single stand, but I agree with just about everything you said.
Hey!...am I a Wily E leghumper now?
--------------------
When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted August 29, 2010 07:50 PM
Welcome to the HM Forum, that's a dandy of a first time post. Great information and insight, I can't argue with anything you said.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted August 29, 2010 08:09 PM
Hey Scott welcome back!
[QUOTE4. Howling, in most cases due to volume and sound frequency, will allow you to reach greater distances than most distress calls. I have seen this time and time again. I can't count how many times I have had coyotes answer me after I howled and was unable to move them with distress calls. When I moved towards these coyotes, I could readily call them in with distress calls from e-callers and hand calls due the difference in the distance covered by each.
] [/QUOTE]
I also have been haveing this happen a few times every year and have done the same as you and moved in closer on some but first I would adjust the direction of the speaker of the caller and look for a response first..
After messing with a sound meter for a few weeks I've found you to be correct on which is louder and what sounds carry farther...
I use coyote vocals on most of my stands and use them according to what age coyotes I'm calling to and time of year. In most cases the coyote vocals are used later on dureing my stand, alot depends on the coyote or coyotes I'm calling to...
quote:
read recently where someone claimed that the quality of their electronic caller was so good that you could go back into the same areas and call the same coyote the next day after you burned them. I had to laugh. You might be able to do this a few times if you happen to be the first one that burned them but I am here to tell you that coyotes, once burned, will learn to differentiate between what is real and what is not and they will quickly associate what is not real with danger.
I agree and disagree.
Alot depends on how bad the coyotes where burned. Was a caller emptying his AR clip on them? Yes this couldbe a problem. From my own exspeariance if you shoot at only what you know you can kill and let the others go I can come back with-in a few hours at a different direction or come back the next day and bring most back in for another crack at them. Last two years I was batting 90% at getting the 2nd out of a pair..
You are correct about about some coyotes being able to tell the difference and ass. some sounds to danger.
I had a group of coyotes that were hit on two different days by a E-caller and hit a third time by mouth calls and they never came in close enough for a shot. I went at them a fourth time useing my WT and got one to come over a hill but still out of gun range. I ended up trying my howler and got the coyote to come in close enough for a shot....
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
|
posted August 29, 2010 08:49 PM
1st time post........LOL!
Just 1st time in a LOOOONNNG time!
Hello Scott....long time no talk. You already know Im with you on the howling thing.
--------------------
Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted August 29, 2010 08:57 PM
quote:
(hope I don't have to read them in someone else's article):
Get out the snow blowers and shovels, boys. Scott and I are on the same train of thought on this one. And just to make it a point of record, I already have an article filed and on the upcoming calendar for this Fall that addresses this very subject. Therefore, when the piece goes to print in a few weeks, let it be known that the date stamp on the submitted manuscript will show it to have been completed in July - not this week. LOL
Without going into what I covered in my piece, I will go so far as to say that I don't agree with the assertion that howls are always intimidating and, thus, should not be used all season, especially in the early months. I firmly believe that the exact opposite is, in fact, true. I utilize vocalizations a LOT, and only vary which sounds I use, handmade or electrnic, how much per stand and where I use them in the sequence. I'll leave it to my article to further explain what I now do and why, but will say that a relatively new member here posted an inquiry about holwing to which I responded privately, advising him of my upcoming piece, and closing my remarks to him by saying that I fully expected my piece to precipitate a "lively" discussion by those who are detractors to my working hypothesis.
Like I said, hell has done froze over because my thoughts are spot on with Scott on this one. LOL
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wiley E
Knows what it's all about
Member # 108
|
posted August 29, 2010 11:14 PM
Now, WHY Scott chose to reregister, rather than use his existing (this) account , I don't have a clue?
Anyway, thank you; a well thought out post. I could examine a few of his suppositions/theories, if I feel up to it, a little later, but as he said; "Let The Games Begin".
Good hunting. ElBee
Posts: 853 | From: Kadoka, S.D | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
|
posted August 30, 2010 04:46 AM
Great post,much of the same observations and behaviour we have come to see and believe. To put the whole calling response in perspective, I have little doubt that after a bad experience with an ecall or mouth call , although they may be able to discern the difference between real and manmade calling, the coyotes approach even those real distress and howl calls with a similar level of wariness.The learning curve is nearly a vertical line. Thanks Wiley
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wily E
unknown comic
|
posted August 30, 2010 06:14 AM
Leonard,
This is my home computer hence the reason I chose to change the spelling a bit.
I had to laugh at the insignia, "Denies being Deepthroat". Haha! Wonder how many of your readers remember the whole story on the movie and the man. When Obama style "change" occurred in our job, some chose loyalty to the system and others chose their loyalty to the livestock producers we serve. Created some disention among the ranks. Won't elaborate further but had to chuckle at the reference to "Deepthroat" because it's so fitting in certain circles.
C-Dog,
Too funny! I didn't even have to set the hook. You just jumped in the boat. LOL!
TA,
I didn't say you can't call coyotes in once they have been burned. I have done it myself. I laughed at the notion that an E-caller is so good that you can do it repeatedly. I teach the different sound from a different direction on a different day theory, remember?
If all coyotes would get educated the first time, you wouldn't be able to call any past the first month because most have heard the gig by then. I'm just saying you can't keep burning them with the same sounds from the same source without educating them. Coyotes don't all have the same learning curve either. The implication is that coyotes can't differentiate from real distress sounds and a high quality e-caller and that's simply not true. Caution eventually wins over curiousity.
Others,
I remember another time where I was calling with a friend from a spot where you had to scrape the brass out of the way to lay down comfortably. I only tried howling. A coyote came in to about 500 yards behind a woven wire fence and paced back and forth. Couldn't shoot because it was in a National Park. Finally the coyote cleared the fence and started coming closer but with baby steps. My partner said, heck let me try the rabbit. I laughed under my breath and thought this would be a good lesson so I said go ahead. When he started the rabbit blues, that coyote's nose went through his ass and he ran back to where he came from like a scalded dog. I couldn't stop laughing. That's the most vivid educated coyote I can remember.
Here's another observation on a different topic. Go ahead Lance, you can use this. LOL!The same coyotes will answer the same small town sirens every night at curfew time. The town siren doesn't pose a threat but it shows how important howling is to coyote social behavior. Ray Alcorn's research on locating coyotes in Nevada is interesting stuff.
Another observation I find interesting is how coyotes learn not to howl where there is a road every mile. My theory is that they get harassed by dogs when they howl so they learn to pick the place and time to howl and I would guess that to be in the middle of the night.
There is one single point to this post and that is that coyotes can identify individual sounds and associate those sounds with danger or pleasure. Caution works against curiousity with every coyote and it's really fun when there is no caution. Enough bad experiences and they will learn to avoid certain sounds no matter how real they sound. Keep in mind that they quickly learn the howls of their parents vs. other coyotes when they are young so it's very easy for them to discern between a recorded rabbit and a real one once they have been burned by a recorded rabbit.
I probably should post this in the caller section but I'm going to post it here and if Leonard wants to move it he can. WT vs Fox Pro.
I have to admit that I am impressed with the advancements in both the Fox Pro and WT callers. I believe WT used to have the corner on the higher quality sounds and I still believe that is the case with a number of coyote vocalizations but I have heard some excellent quality distress sounds with Fox Pro's latest version. With that said, I also felt Fox Pro used to have the corner on being "user friendly" compared to all the wires and batteries of the original WT setup. What a mess that was. Obviously this was an issue for many WT users or they wouldn't have changed the unit to the far more user friendly "mighty atom". I also have to say that the best recorded distress sound I have ever heard is in the Fox Pro arsenal and accreditted to Cal Taylor. Given the choice between the two, which I was, I would still chose the WT simply based on the extensive high quality sound library. With that said I think the new Fox Pro units are probably just as good with the exception of some of their coyote vocalizations for my purposes. I'm probably still shell shocked from the original Fox Pro flashlight coyote vocalization recordings of someone blowing a Bill Austin howler but I'm also shell shocked from the wire and battery messes of the WT unit from days gone by. Both sucked for different reasons and now both callers have advanced to what I consider top of the line units. I just happen to feel that I need the adult coyote vocaliztions of the WT rather than the remote technology of the new Fox Pro. I wouldn't shed many tears if I was forced to use the new Fox Pro. I'm not trying to be diplomatic here, just calling it the way I see it. Not a lot of difference for the most part.
When I brought the WT technology to our guys in SD, some recognized the potential immediately and took their calling to a higher level. Others originally questioned the need for electronics, they followed those who took their game to a higher level, and now have become the "quint essential" authorities on all things WT. Funny how that works.
~SH~
[ October 02, 2010, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted August 30, 2010 07:13 AM
Excellent reading!
For whatever it's worth, oftentimes, I'll start a stand with a single howl on a hand call and just sit on it for a good 1/2 hour, or more. Maybe then, I'll answer with the e-caller, a 'social' type howl, and sit on it for another long spell. After maybe an hour, I'll toss some distress in, if only to unglue an unseen visitor that may need some coaxing into gun range...
You guys may think that crazy, but given my limited calling areas, relatively high human population & the associated interaction that coyotes have with people, roads, other game hunters, etc... I've found this tactic to work for me here in NY in the daylight. Not many guys believe me, but I don't really care...
Of course, I'm trying to howl to where I believe coyotes are layed up for the day, or traveling to/from early & late. Having that 'captive audience' to hear one decent howl is sometimes enough to get one to mosey on over to a lookee-loo. And when they do come, it is almost like they are sleep walking, a "non-chalant" approach, if you will, sniffing & looking. Unless it's February & a big male comes bounding through the snow with his hackles up. Then, IT's ON!!!
In any event, there is hardly ever a stand that I don't howl. Regardless of the time of year.
Great topic...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
|
posted August 30, 2010 08:02 AM
ahhh, but.... Willy, Wily, Wiley? have you heard all the new adult coyote vocalizations FoxPro released in the last year or so? And a few new pups sounds and various other coyote sounds? Not sure who recorded them but they did a hell of a job. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Anyway, WT has NOTHING on FP in the coyote sounds department anymore.
--------------------
Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
|
posted August 30, 2010 08:07 AM
I agree with Cal, The lastest FP coyote vocals are more productive in my area than most of the WT coyote sounds.
PS LB, lastest is an Okie word.
[ August 30, 2010, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted August 30, 2010 09:59 AM
Yeah, it would have to be....
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted August 30, 2010 10:34 AM
quote:
The advantages to howling, regardless of the age or the social status of the coyotes you are working on are numerous. S.H.
There's a safe statement for ya.
Of ocurse, age and/or social status can just as easily work against you, not knowing where the coyotes within range stack up in the hierarchy. Pick your vocalization carefully.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted August 30, 2010 01:09 PM
Hey Wiley E, I thought that you were dead! Glad I was wrong though. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) You must be several inches shorter than you were the last time I saw you, what with all of that prairie walking and all.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted August 30, 2010 01:32 PM
quote:
Too funny! I didn't even have to set the hook. You just jumped in the boat. LOL!
Didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that one out, Scott. You're just as easy as me.
Welcome back.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted August 30, 2010 01:53 PM
Jumped in the boat, just like Byron. lol
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted August 30, 2010 03:03 PM
Exceptin' I've been hunting coyotes by one means or another since I was three. Started back when Cronk was new to being old. Using my toes, fingers and what-not, too,... and seein's how I'm forty-five and almost forty six, that means I've been after those coyotes for,.. well,.. a loooonnnnggg time. Maybe even thirty years!
Scott ain't the only one that thunk of that stuff.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted August 30, 2010 05:34 PM
quote:
I didn't say you can't call coyotes in once they have been burned. I have done it myself. I laughed at the notion that an E-caller is so good that you can do it repeatedly. I teach the different sound from a different direction on a different day theory, remember?
Sorry about that..
Yes I remember, and it works very well..
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
|
posted August 30, 2010 06:30 PM
I think a lot of guys get stuck in the rut of "distress calls and 15 minute stands" and then switch to howls and don't understand why they don't work as well, without realizing that they may be reaching coyotes further away, but also now have coyotes coming slower in general and they don't have the patience to wait long enough for the coyotes to get there.
Classic example, I hunt with a rancher friend of mine who was taught by his grandad how to call coyotes, distress was all they ever used, and this ol' boy will literally stand up and head to the truck at about the 10 minute mark every time. He's gotten so used to 'em coming quick to distress, that he thinks if they're not there in 10, he ain't wastin' time waitin' on'em to come.
Another one is a cousin of mine. This last Feb. he and I were hunting together and I started one particular afternoon stand with a few female invites, and then was just sitting quietly for a while. Probably about 5 minutes had gone by when I hear my cousin, "psst....psst...you awake over there?" He thought I had fallen a sleep at the wheel. Eventually did a couple more howls and at about the 15 minute mark, had a little female wonder in and shot her at about 40 yards. He couldn't beleive it. Not one distress sound on stand, and a coyote just sauntered in like she was suppose to. But they don't alway get there with-in 15 minutes.
--------------------
Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
6mm284
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1129
|
posted August 31, 2010 06:18 AM
I have seen times when there is snow on the ground where coyote tracks wander thru my call stand. These tracks were laid down sometime thru the day after I had left and before dark.I don't know what the exact time lapse could be , but may be as much as several hours or more. Could be an awfully long call stand to meet up with those coyotes.Some WS hunters say coyotes may wait all day until evening and then come check out the site. A little harder to establish that happening.
[ August 31, 2010, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: 6mm284 ]
Posts: 198 | From: N46 06 E91 11 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
|
posted August 31, 2010 05:14 PM
What's interesting is to see, amongst those who believe in tha value of howling, whether they use it early, or at the end, and why. IMO, I've come to use it up front simply because it tends to trigger at least two behaviors: compels them to go downwind, even if they weren't doing so already, and triggers a more cautious, even if curious, response, thus slowing things down to where that 'ten and go' strategy just won't cut it.
If I start with a howl, I wait the stand out a minimum 20 minutes, regardless of the time of the year. I've had too many coyotes pop up with just their head visible on the backside of a ridgeline or in brush as they reconnoiter, and almost always downwind of me or the caller, whichever made the sounds. Hard and fast rule for me.
As far as calling the same coyotes twice, I've done it twice that I can recall on the same day, and as a matter of fact, both within two hours of the first time I saw them. So, I know it can be done. The first was on a very windy day (35mph winds) on the leeward side of a long shelterbelt. A big male and a smaller female or pup first appeared at about 500 yards out, answering to distress. Both started in, the male turned and did somthing toward the pup who immediately sat down. The male began circling downwind of me and I took the best shot offered at ~250 yards and got him. The pup walked back to where they'd come from and four more coyotes appeared, all of them walking south into a thicket of sandplums a half-mile down the drainage. Two hours later, I came into the same pasture from the other side, sat up NW of the drainage and howled. Within about two minutes, three coyotes appeared and held up behind a large yucca plant. One of the three responded to my coaxing squeaks, offered a shot, and I dropped her, rolling her down the hillside. That day was to impress myself I guess. LOL
The first year young Matt and I hunted together, we called up a pair of young coyotes across a wheatfield They checked up at about a hundred yards, I looked them over and took the one that didn't have a big swatch of mange on its left hip. Mangy took off running toward the square of the section where a thicket of osageorange stood and I told Matt we'd come back. We did, an hour later. Walked in from the other side and I sat Matt down where I thought he might get a shot. He'd asked me if we could call a coyote back so soon after shooting at it. I told him I didn't know about anyone else, but I thought that I could. I started with a pair of very mournful howls and about five minutes later, a coyote crossed in front of me through the grass at about forty yards. I dumped it and when Matt came over, we rolled it over. Lo and behold, mangy left hip. Go figure. That one was to impress him. LMAO.
Having said any and all of that, the bigger question I have is how many times has Scott perused this thread looking for someone's words to parse so he can prove them "wrong" and himself "right"? Everyone is being so carefulhow they word their responses. LOL Looks to me like the only way we're gonna see a "game" here is if one of these new guys jumps into the ring.
--------------------
I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
|
posted August 31, 2010 06:23 PM
Cdog I haven't seen the down wind issue being one of just howling, they trust their nose and eyes as much if not more than their ears! I have had plenty of coyotes come down wind to distress sounds. In the reverse some agressive coyotes in the summer time come straight into howl and pup in distress with no attention paid to wind and going down wind. Not all on either account and at times finishing with a howl can be the golden ticket even when starting out with a distress.
I have found with th e caller at times hiding it with terrain or vegitation can bring those coyotes to the only knob and give you the shot opportunity you are looking for as you know where they will end up and look for what their ears told them is supposed to be there.
--------------------
This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted August 31, 2010 07:35 PM
Before I met Scott and Randy I used lone howls at the beginning of my stands hopeing to convince other coyotes that another coyote was in their terr. eating their rabbits..I had great success doing so but I found out by looking through my log books I was calling in and killing mostly adult coyotes and if I did get a YOY it was with an adult at the time it was taken.. Randy kinda openned my eyes to what was takeing place and I have since stopped useing howls at the beginning of a stand and save them for later on in the stand.. It really paid off cause I was getting more younger coyotes to come in on my stands.. On the same note if a caller wants to remove the adults first from a area then a caller could benifit by starting out with howls..
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Wily E
unknown comic
|
posted September 03, 2010 10:54 PM
TA: "I have since stopped useing howls at the beginning of a stand and save them for later on in the stand.. It really paid off cause I was getting more younger coyotes to come in on my stands."
Are you of the belief that any howl will intimidate a young coyote?
I was on a stand a few days ago. Knew the pups were there. Started out with an adult howl hoping the adults would show up first since the pups are getting a little more difficult to differentiate from adults based on their size at this time of year. Guess what showed up? Yup, those pups that were supposed to be intimidated. I guess they didn't know what was expected of them.
Maybe I sounded like their rich uncle?
KJ: "I agree with Cal, The lastest FP coyote vocals are more productive in my area than most of the WT coyote sounds."
I don't know how the FP coyote sounds can be more productive than the WT coyote sounds because you can't get any more realism in a recorded adult coyote vocalization than WT puts out. The new FP units may have some adult coyote vocalizations (howls) that are just as good as the best WT sounds. To date I haven't heard them. I'm simply saying, you are going to have to prove to me that they are BETTER than the best WT sounds.
Lots of variables to isolate before you can credit one factor.
ON a different topic, I often wonder how those "estrus chirpers" are doing in comparison with the rest of the calling world?
~SH~
[ September 03, 2010, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
