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Author
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Topic: To howl or not to howl
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coyotehunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3282
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posted September 13, 2010 07:14 PM
when its cold I have to be right on that thing or in direct line of sight. flat will not work otherwise. I mean cold.................North Dakota cold not Texas cold. I know I can set the presets up........why do I need all that geewiz stuff on a remote. they have plum over thought the whole thing. looks cool and I am sure the engineers enjoy playing with it in the office but out in the field with gloves on it is just a irratation. I do like the caller/speaker a bunch though. loud and clear.
Posts: 55 | From: west | Registered: Oct 2008
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 13, 2010 07:33 PM
Tundra Wookie (Snowcamoman) has had no problems whatsoever hunting in Alaska, easily as cold as N. Dakota and then some. He shared the idea some time ago of putting the clear stick on buttons on the remote keys, making it much easier to operate in extremely cold weather. I do the same thing and it helps in any weather, IMO. Helps you find the numbers by feel. As far as line of sight, something is wrong there. That is what the FHSS technology is all about. I have never had the thing fail. If you are having that kind of problem, you need to contact Foxpro and they'll take care of you. That is not a common problem. I don't know why you wouldn't want to use the presets, but that's your right.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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coyotehunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3282
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posted September 13, 2010 07:56 PM
I talked with them. they had some thoughts........they thought it was because of the cold weather. I just want a simple little remote with a off and on switch, a volume button, and another button to switch through the sounds. I just don"t want all those buttons, dials and such. plus the fact that if you loose it they are fairly expensive to replace. Don't spend a lot of time defending it to me.......I use it just about every week year round. pretty good little unit, the ones I have had in the past are just fine tools as well............the remote looks like it was built for a engineer not a coyote hunter. Keep it simple........they missed that in their design.
Posts: 55 | From: west | Registered: Oct 2008
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 13, 2010 08:06 PM
Coyotehunter. I am not trying to defend anything. I thought you had a problem and was trying to help you. I am just saying that if Snowcamoman has no problems in Alaska with line of sight or anything else, you should have no problem in N. Dakota.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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coyotehunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3282
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posted September 13, 2010 08:21 PM
k..........sorry you miss understood me. I am not looking for help. just making a statement about my thoughts and issues with the foxpro remote. Just because you know a guy in alaska who is not having the same problem does not mean that my problem does not exist. I was just making a statement about my experience with the unit.
Posts: 55 | From: west | Registered: Oct 2008
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 13, 2010 08:32 PM
Coyotehunter. No problem. I was only suggesting that steps that helped him in Alaska might help you in N. Dakota. I know the clear, raised buttons on the remote help me a bunch in cold weather with gloves on. They give you a definite click feel on each key. I was not suggesting that you don't have a problem, but trying to be of help. I do believe you have a problem with your unit, but I believe it is correctable.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 13, 2010 08:34 PM
I have posted this before, but in case anyone is interested, here are the clear stick on buttons that I think help you operate your remote in cold weather with gloves on. In fact, I think they help anytime as you learn the location of the keys by feel.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Locohead
World Famous Smoke Dancer
Member # 15
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posted September 13, 2010 08:46 PM
Cool idea Al!
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I love my critters and chick!!!! :)
Posts: 2219 | From: CO | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted September 13, 2010 08:55 PM
I have held off making a comment on the cs24 until now. I have seen the same issues with the line of sight problem coyotehunter mentioned. The call is not mine(Randy's), but I have hunted over it almost as much as he has. In Colorado last year, we had problems with the call not responding to the remote. There were incidents where the call would not turn off/mute, change volume or sound. It happened several times, and I remember having several conversations regarding it. Also, it should be noted the temps were low 20's to high 30's. Not exactly arctic conditions.
All that said, I will probably still buy one soon. I like the sound quality and design, along with some of the sounds only available through fp. I know how to deal with the line of sight problems; after all, I currently own a minaska.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 14, 2010 03:33 AM
I use the raised stick on buttons on my WT remote and they do freeze or get stiff in very cold weather -15 and interfear with the operation of the remote when selecting a sound..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted September 14, 2010 06:41 AM
Greenside: "How often do you hear an uninitiated “I’m a dispersing nine month old coyote” type howl? Or for that matter, how often can you solicit a howl back from a dispersing nine month old coyote? I’ll assume that most newly dispersed coyote let their nose do the talking."
When most recreational callers are hunting coyotes there is two categories of coyotes present, jueveniles that are dispersing and adults. The jueveniles are 6 - 9 months old while the adults are a year and 6 - 9 months old +. Jueveniles constitute about 70% of most healthy coyote populations. When it comes to dispersion, jueveniles will constitute an even higher percentage because many adults are already locked into certain areas especially wet bitches that have successfully denned in an area and adult pairs that are still together.
If you are having trouble differentiating between the two when you hear them or see them, this discussion will probably not help you.
How do you identify a dispersing coyote from an adult at a distance? Size, behavior, sound, and teeth and skull after you shoot them to reflect back on their size, behavior, and sound.
So if you have an area that hasn't had a lot of coyotes in it during the summer and it's wintertime and it now has a few coyotes running around ALONE, they are probably young dispersing coyotes.
In addition, you don't need coyotes to answer you to elicit a response. Many come without answering.
As far as the other reader's comments, you can't have a meaningful discussion on this topic based on generalizations. If someone says, "I've seen coyotes move away from a howl", what the heck does that tell you? Nothing, unless you know exactly what type of howl they are talking about, where it came from in relation to where the coyote was heading, and know that the howl was the only deterrant. Can you say that for sure? If not, then the reaction to an adult howl has no bearing on the reaction to the howl of a young coyote. Yet another "apples to grapefruits" comparison. Comparing a Bad Assed Brock Lesner coyote howl at full volume on the WT sent from the high hill is hardly comparable to a high pitched howl coming from Randy Anderson's lil' dog howler while tucked in behind some soapweeds.
Here's another thing to consider. If you can clearly see what is a young dispersing coyote due to it's size, location, and behavior and it doesn't answer you when you howl and keeps moving away from you until you use a distress call then it comes. How do you know the howl was a deterrant as opposed to simply NOT AN ATTRACTANT? If the coyote doesn't turn tail and run away from the sound of another young coyote, it may simply be uninterested as opposed to being intimidated. Howling didn't help you in that situation but it certainly didn't hurt you.
Am I really that bad at explaining this?
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think my opinion is the only one that matters. I am willing to defend my opinion and challenge the opinion of others simply to find out what those opinions are based on and consider all the variables involved in order to test the validity of what I currently believe. I won't apologize for that.
Picture this...
Judge to jury: "Have you reached a decision"
Juror: "We have your honor"
Judge to jury: "What say you"
Jury: "We the jury find that everyone's opinion has merit regardless what factors that opinion was based on so let's all join hands now and sing Kumbia"
Wily: "I OBJECT!!!!!"
There is an organization in the cattle industry that has a lot of popular opinions on market manipulation. I have questioned and challenged their conspiracy theories from their inception to my own personal detriment with friends in the cattle industry. This organization's record in a court of law is now 0 and 9 taking one case to the Supreme court and losing. Those opinions haven't went away but I feel better knowing the law and the facts support what I believe in this case.
I hate to divert to MO but it always seems to become an issue during these debates. Cal has done the best job so far in defending his opinion which makes me reconsider mine. That's the value in debate.
I question much of what I hear unless I think I can trust the source.
Take it away......
~SH~
[ September 14, 2010, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 14, 2010 09:19 AM
I had the same problems with my CS24 also, ditto Lance. I've had several issues with a FX-3, so I'm kinda used to it.
I traded in the FX-3 for the CS-24.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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ursus21
2nd place, John Denver lookalike Contest
Member # 3556
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posted September 14, 2010 09:22 AM
I find the line of sight thing interesting. I'm having the same problem with my CS-24. As long as I have line of sight it works out to actually further away than I'll ever need (200 yards or more.) However if there is a slight curve in the hill and I'm only 40 yards away and don't have line of sight it will not work. With that said I just make sure I have line of sight when I set up. Not really all that difficult and most of the time it is what I would do anyway.
Posts: 780 | From: Montana | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 14, 2010 10:12 AM
It's supposed to work beyond line of sight? It had better, they claim it will? But, for me, I like to see the unit because sometimes an animal can sneak in and stick it's nose in the speaker. It's nice to be able to observe that when it happens.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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ursus21
2nd place, John Denver lookalike Contest
Member # 3556
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posted September 14, 2010 11:00 AM
The sound on my CS-24 is louder and as clear, or clearer, than my FX5, but the remote range was definitely better on the FX5. My understanding was the the CS-24 was supposed to have the best transmitter with the most range of anything they had ever made. Simply not true from my experience so far.
Posts: 780 | From: Montana | Registered: Jan 2010
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 14, 2010 11:21 AM
I guess all the money is in the Sounds and transmitters.
I think the TOA speaker I bought was $39, and a < $50 MP3 player.
Someday, someone will figure it out.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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luckyjack
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3462
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posted September 14, 2010 12:23 PM
I'll give a confession also. Another one here that is very disappointed in the CS24 and it's supposedly super remote.
I have the same problems with muting the caller as has been mentioned. It's weird, but the POS will start the sounds damn near every time you push the button from about anywhere and at long distances.
I guees it's a decent caller if you never need or want to shut the thing up after you start it.
Very disappointed in the caller after all the good bullshit I read about them. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
[ September 14, 2010, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: luckyjack ]
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better to be lucky than good
Posts: 41 | From: 4 sections North of Clem | Registered: Jul 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 14, 2010 12:57 PM
Oh great! Now you tell me! I'll tell you one thing, if it don't work, I'm sending it in and will make due with the Minaska. ElBee
UPS called yesterday and said that somebody has to be home all day to sign for it, from 8A.M. to 7P.M. Here it is 1:00, and UPS isn't knocking, yet......
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Greenside
seems to know what he is talking about
Member # 10
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posted September 14, 2010 01:03 PM
Scott, trying to pick your brain. During this dispersal, what percent of all your howl backs would you attribute to dispersing coyote? Can you tell the difference between the howls of a dispersing male from a female? Do 9 month old coyote territorial howl?
Posts: 719 | From: IA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 14, 2010 01:18 PM
Yeah I've had problems with my FX5 remote too. Not really bad but some issues for sure.It really does piss ya off though.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 14, 2010 01:27 PM
Gee................You guys are making my little 416 & it's remote seem better all of the time. And saving me a bunch of coin that can be better spent on lap dances. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted September 14, 2010 03:17 PM
The cs-24 is a good caller but at times very few in certain cover unless I'm elevated or the caller I need to hold the remote high to get it to function properly. Not very often and I like possumal's stand hook up!!!! If i'm higher than the caller at ground level zero problems if the caller is higher than me, say a hay bale zero problems, I don't know if it is minerals in the soils in certain areas, transmission lines or what but while not amajor concern it does happen, Al's stand would I'm sure eliminate it 100%. Minaska had the best remote to caller function I have ever owned, zero problems none, nadda, zero. Didn;t matter how thick or how far away within reason it just kept on ticking.
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted September 14, 2010 04:25 PM
I wish I knew more about how to use vocals, Scott I sure am greatful for you taking the time lay it out for guys like me.
I did at least think that a young coyote wouldn't be as threatening as an older one and when I ordered my powler howler, I ordered the gray bands for a higher/younger pitch.
Now for the caller/remote problems, no one has had as bad of luck as I did with e-callers, not that I could imagine anyway.
The first Fury (same remote tech) and first generation, worked fine and then all of a sudden it wouldn't mute the caller. The second one worked perfectly and I converted a buddy of mine who had a minaska, the remote was awesome. He wound up with that caller and I ordered another one but the CS24 was coming out so my cousin wanted that Fury, it worked fine and still is.
The first CS24 I got, was dead on arrival, it would not read the sound list. A phone call got a second one delivered in a couple of days. That one has been working without issue as long as the batteries are up.
Now for Minaska, mine went back to the factory at least 4 times and was sold for a big loss as soon as it came back "fixed". That remote was worse than the Western Rivers add on for the JS512.
If you have trouble with FP call em and get it fixed, the new remote works very well. They can't fix it if they don't know about it and they are very easy to work with.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 14, 2010 04:26 PM
I have tested 4 CS-24's and 1 Fury and have never had any of them fail. I have tested them in every kind of terrain and at various distances up to 300 yds, and they worked flawlessly. If you look at the post I made some time ago about the first tests I ran, you will see that the Fury worked over hills, behind trees, and behind thick weeds and bushes. Others have tested them thoroughly with the same results. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't have a problem. I do use the small camera tripod with the quick connect to get the caller up off the ground, and I cover with a piece of camo cloth to hide the tripod and ecaller, and it works well that way too. IMO, they sound better that way. The FHSS technology is supposed to work that way, and my tests have shown it is far more reliable than the TX-200 remote. If you are having a problem, Foxpro will fix it.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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coyotehunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3282
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posted September 14, 2010 04:56 PM
you make some great points Wiley but you seem to easily discount other individuals visual observations. In my work in the area I hunt..............everyday, year round. I would say I understand what I can and can not do with these coyotes. I have seen runt, timid, neophobic coyotes that just do not respond to other coyte sounds. Brian Mitchells study clearly reinforces my observations that not all coyotes will respond or approach coyotes vocalizations. If your coyotes will not respond it will make it difficult to determine, at least in a cold call situation, how to vocally approach a call sequance. At least in a way that is useful in a calling/hunting situation. In a control enviroment were you know and understand your coyotes (Micro or Macro in its scope)you have more to consider and more time to understand the dynamics of your population. If you are calling through a given area in the fall I would always try to locate as many of your coyotes as possible but do not pass up a area that looks like it should hold coyotes just because you did not hear or see a coyote. Especially if this is a spot thot you have killed coyotes in the past. Slide in hit a distress of your likeing and shoot straight. Steve Allen has a great study that showed how neighboring coyotes rarely approached one another but vocalized back and forth constantly. All good info Scott and I know you have read these studies. I do beleive in my area, I get to know the coyotes I have through out the year, especially on my sheep grounds, I do end up killing most of them when on stand with vocalizations. I would say though the main reason that is is because I get in so tight before I open up. If I do not know the area very well..........I rely on prey distress alot and those I do use I typically record myself. Though Foxpro does have a great library of sounds that work as well. I hope I have not rambled to much and you get the jest of my position. Great info Scott and I appreciate you taking the time to put it out there.
[ September 14, 2010, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: coyotehunter ]
Posts: 55 | From: west | Registered: Oct 2008
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