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Author
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Topic: To howl or not to howl
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2010 01:27 PM
Scott, I am not sure if anybody is going to run your idea of the "Pepsi challenge" to satisfy your quest for these particular answers. I ran all the tests I needed to know which caller was the best, but that is for my needs.
I wonder if Kelly Jackson, Clay Reid, etc. ran such a test before choosing the CS-24, Foxpro sounds, and a superior remote? I'll bet you'd have a tough time getting them to switch back.
Being able to put sequences that suit me on my ecaller, as well as individual sounds, is a big advantage, IMO.
Good hunting at ya.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2010 02:10 PM
quote:
I'll make you a friendly wager right now that I could go in anywhere behind you with the WT and get the same coyotes to answer on a following day as long as you left them alone after they answered you.
Thats one of the things I liked about my WT when locateing coyotes here at home. I could hit on them one night a week and still get them to answer back throughout the season.
quote:
I wonder if Kelly Jackson, Clay Reid, etc. ran such a test before choosing the CS-24, Foxpro sounds, and a superior remote? I'll bet you'd have a tough time getting them to switch back
Put these same guys in another state that dose'nt have such high numbers and I bet they will have second thoughts on their choice.. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 06, 2010 02:31 PM
quote:
I'll make you a friendly wager right now that I could go in anywhere behind you with the WT and get the same coyotes to answer on a following day as long as you left them alone after they answered you. I had visions of you with a Gatling gun before I finished the sentence. I'll send the Sherriff along with you to keep you honest......I suppose I'll have to do a background check on him too. LOL!
I wouldn't use the gatling gun Wily, but watch out for claymores left behind in the road! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And not to sound stupid, but who the hell is Clay Reid that Al keeps bringing up? And why would his opinion be important?
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 06, 2010 03:04 PM
OMG! I thought I was the only dummy who didn't know who Clay Reid is! He must know his shit if Al is carrying his water.
Now, the big question right now. I ordered from APC, but I didn't see any way to include the feature for switching after a shot is fired? What is that, and how do I include it on my Prairie Blaster?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2010 03:19 PM
Leonard, Foxbang has to be installed at Foxpro, either on an originally ordered CS-24, Prairie Blaster, or when sent in later. You get a few other features included like Foxfade.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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luckyjack
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3462
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posted September 06, 2010 03:21 PM
Elbee, you ordered the Prairie Blaster? My brother had one of those for about a week. That thing was a brute of a caller. Damn loud too. He said it was just to big and heavy for his liking. I think he bought a Fury or CS24.
Edit: Never heard of Clay Reid either.
[ September 06, 2010, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: luckyjack ]
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better to be lucky than good
Posts: 41 | From: 4 sections North of Clem | Registered: Jul 2009
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2010 04:37 PM
quote:
And not to sound stupid, but who the hell is Clay Reid that Al keeps bringing up?
If you have'nt been to P.M. board you may not know him. If I remember correctly he is a big time caller in Texas, does alot of contest hunts and finishes out on top. He really loves to beat his chest and talk about fox-pro.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 06, 2010 04:40 PM
Isn't Clay Reid the guy who lights Kelly's cigars for him??? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Sorry..............That was to easy to pass up. I'll go to my room now. (But if you 'google' clay reid & scroll down to the 'images' & click on the middle-ish one;
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2010 04:49 PM
Here is a post made by Clay Reid in March 2010:
Well I finished 3rd this weekend in the Aspermont Texas calling contest with 5 bobcats and 1 stinking coyote .
since ive changed from the Wildlife Tech to the Foxpro CS-24 Ive finished 1st in the Graham Texas hunt.
3rd in the Weatherford Texas hunt .
3rd in the Henrietta Texas hunt
3rd in the Aspermont hunt and my boy won the Henrietta Texas youth hunt .
Im really starting to like this caller more and more . Foxpro has really come a long ways in its sounds . The Ranting Redbird is a cat getting son of a gun .
Plus I used it in the rain without any problems this weekend . Thats always high on my list . DURABILITY .
Clay Reid
_________________________
Graham TX calling champion 09
Archer City TX calling champion 09
Abiline Tx calling champion 09
Bluegrove Tx calling champion 09
Graham TX Jan.calling champion 10
Graham TX Feb. calling champion 10
Says quite a bit, don't you think?
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted September 06, 2010 05:04 PM
Clay seems to be a pretty good dude, just got acquainted to him about a year ago myself. Real deal kinda guy, won a lot of contest (Graham/Abiline/ect) I think he was a diehard WT fan until he experienced some frustration with the ATOM (and Martz) late last winter during a contest. I suppose he made the switch to Foxpro then? I'd venture to say that any Foxpro touting he is doing... is geared toward revenge as much as anything.
I hope to take Clay up on his offer and get down there for a hunt this winter (if Kelly leaves his ammo at home?) to see how it’s done in Texas. He organizes a popular predator hunt near Archer City that I'd love to attend sometime... info linked (HERE) for those interested.
Anyway, the names affiliated with these products only tell us that there is deep credibility *AND* blatant partisanship on both sides of the coin. Now that Foxpro has a product in the same league as WT, you'll see a few more open-minded folks from the old WT regime carrying them. Ironically, the improvement of sounds will probably result in fewer additional sales than the addition of bells & whistles like Foxfade/Foxbang/ect.
By the way… can we now add Al Morris to the list with Affleck & Taylor?
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 06, 2010 05:10 PM
I replied to PossumAl in an e-mail also, This Clay may be a wonderful fella and good caller, I have no idea. The Texas contests don't mean much to me. I think they have one every other day in most of those places.
quote:
By the way… can we now add Al Morris to the list with Affleck & Taylor?
Who the hell is Al Morris?
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted September 06, 2010 05:14 PM
Posted at the same time Al.
Yes his resume is quite impressive, but I belive (could be wrong) that he won the bulk of those titles with a Wildlife Technologies caller. I recall his blowup with Martz was about six months ago (same time as the post you pasted) and it wouldn't surprise me if he's been pounding the Foxpro drum ever since.
I remember being at an awards ceremony where my wife was being honored as "Teacher of the Year" and an email came into my phone as she walked up to the stage. It was notifying me that our NPHA moderators had pulled my friend's post (turned out to be Clay) at his own request. Seemed he went a little overboard on his frustration with Martz and thought better of it later. If not for that unique memory stuck in my head, I'd be clueless about his choice in electronic callers just like everyone else.
He's a real hunter that knows how to kill coyotes, unquestionable.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted September 06, 2010 05:15 PM
Cal, forward me that email you sent to Leonard and I'll reply with a resume for Al Morris. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2010 05:26 PM
quote:
Yes his resume is quite impressive, but I belive (could be wrong) that he won the bulk of those titles with a Wildlife Technologies caller.
You are correct Jason he did win those titles with his WT and I have not seen any new wins posted since he switched over to F-P. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Says quite a bit, don't you think Al??? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 06, 2010 05:42 PM
I know who Clay is. I was just thinking that he didn't even own a Kelly "Bucket Head" kit when he won all of those contests. Just think what a motor scooter he would be if he had one of those kits.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2010 06:02 PM
Tim, I can only go by the man's post. He clearly says that after switching from the W.T. unit, he had won the listed events.
That does show me a lot.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2010 07:59 PM
quote:
1st in the Graham Texas hunt.
3rd in the Weatherford Texas hunt .
3rd in the Henrietta Texas hunt
3rd in the Aspermont hunt and my boy won the Henrietta Texas youth hunt .
Looks like one first place and the rest 3rd place since he switched over to F-P..
quote:
Graham TX calling champion 09
Archer City TX calling champion 09
Abiline Tx calling champion 09
Bluegrove Tx calling champion 09
Graham TX Jan.calling champion 10
Graham TX Feb. calling champion 10
The contests listed above were won with a WT, Like Jason mentioned he did'nt get the F-P till later in the spring..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2010 08:24 PM
quote:
Clay Reid
Woodsman
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 172
Loc: Archer City Wildlife tech is the best out there .
Volume , Clarity and sounds .
I have a foxpro and ive put it in the box to ship it back .
_________________________
Graham Predator Calling Champion 09
Abiline Predator Calling Champion 09
Archer City Predator Calling Champion 09
Bluegrove Predator Calling Champion 09
Graham January Predator Calling Champion 10
Graham February Predator Calling Champion 10
quote:
Clay Reid
Woodsman
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 172
Loc: Archer City I would have elaborated more but I didnt wanna be ambushed by a bunch of foxpro supporters .
If your a casual hunter you can call and have success with just about any of them but if your interested in getting serious about predator hunting this toy will help you with the learning curve . put it out there , sun to your back , wind in your face and give er he--. if their there they will come .
Any more questions give me a call 940-631-8820 . Ive hunted with most all of them {Minaska , Game Traks , Foxpro, Compucaller Etc Etc . }. i can give you my opinion and thats about all its worth .
_________________________
Well now we know how he really feels..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted September 06, 2010 09:04 PM
Guys,
I'm not an ADC hunter or even what some would consider a good predator hunter, but I've been at this for many years. I enjoy it, it doesn't pay my bills like for some here.
The way I see this is if an electronic caller has superior circuits and sound quality, the difference must be in the speaker reproducing the sounds. For many years now WT has used a superior speaker in their units... the TOA series which are found in both today. Now if that is indeed the difference in overall performance the only other possible scenario for one caller being better would be the sounds used.
We have all(most of us)used or heard Johnny Stewart sounds on records,tape or digital yet these much older and often lower fidelity sounds still produce very well. Given that as corroborating evidence I say the sounds themselves have to be the real working factor. Maybe it's just their cadence, I don't know.
We've heard in this thread of and from some of the very best of the very best that are around today and they seem to agree that one particular sound will often produce better than another, yet even these fellas can't substantiate their opinions with a scientific analysis.
Why? Because they can't tell us or 100% know what a given coyote will or will not respond to at any specified time and there is no way for them to test their theories on one coyote simultaneously. I wonder if you were to use a WT and a CS24 at the same location with the same sound from WT, then from Foxpro would a coyote come to one particular caller over the other.
Like has been said there are many variables.
By my way of seeing this, wouldn't common sense tell us the best sound will produce better if reproduced by the best equipment and one that produces the most lifelike in sound frequency to the prey animal...
It all seems pretty simple to me! Best sounds and best reproduction of those sounds.
Everything else is about personal preference in bells and whistles. Sure would be nice if sounds were universally available so we as hunters could choose. That won't happen due to the cost of creating those sound files and one camp believing theirs is better than the other. I just don't buy into the hype from either crowd.
A coyote can hear into the 40,000hz range(scientifically proven)and none of these callers even come close to that... that has been scientifically proven, too!
I've got to get me one of those Buckhead kits!
Hey Tim... is yours lined with tin foil?
Nikonut
Edited: Sorry guys, sometimes my spelling sucks!
[ September 06, 2010, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted September 06, 2010 10:31 PM
Scott,
Here is what I know. I have used a WT and most of the coyote vocals in the four states I hunt each year. I get a better response with the new FP coyote sounds, than I do with the WT coyote vocals and coyote distress. If I didn’t the FP would be in the closet instead of the WT.
I may not be using the WT coyote sounds correctly. Compared to most on here, even though I have been chasing coyotes awhile I am an infant in comparison to the time spent afield.
I try to make 400-500 stands a year and manage to kill some coyotes each year.
At the end of the day, it makes no difference to me what sounds, call, or rifle a man is using.
If he is happy I am happy.
To All - Clay’s a friend of mine, and I have hunted a few contests with him. He would give you the shirt off his back, but he lives for the contest. He is balls to the wall and fully understands that a contest is a timed event.
I had just as soon hunt against him as with him. We argue too much about what triggers coyotes between stands. He’s opinionated as hell and I am right, so there you go.
Tim – why in the hell would I want to go hunt somewhere there isn’t a lot of coyotes???
I do this for fun, I already have a job.
Stay after them
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 07, 2010 04:57 AM
quote:
Tim – why in the hell would I want to go hunt somewhere there isn’t a lot of coyotes???
I do this for fun, I already have a job.
That is one of the most well thought out intelligent statements I have ever seen on the internet!
And that would also be the reason TA goes to central South Dakota every chance he gets.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted September 07, 2010 07:05 AM
I can't believe anyone would suggest that someone continually winning a contest is testimony to the call he is using as opposed to all the other variables that constitute success.
There is four main factors to those who continually win contests.
1. They have a lot of coyotes where they are calling and some have actual coyote refuges with lots of virgin eared coyotes. That's probably the biggest factor and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with the caller being used. These contests are more about who can sew up the best area rather than who is the best at scratching out the most coyotes under difficult conditions. I know because I have done it for many years in numerous states. If you wanted to level the playing field you would draw for similar areas then draw again on the second day. Then you would sort the wheat from the chaff.
2. They have to be able to shoot good.
3. They have to be able to cover a lot of ground and make productive stands.
4. They have to be able to handle coyotes correctly.
Not one of these important factors has anything to do with the call being used.
Until proven otherwise, I'm standing firm on the belief that you wouldn't see much difference between the results of these two e-calls in a side by side unbiased test particularly in areas that haven't been called a lot.
When we are aerial hunting on snow cover, one will quickly find out what percentage of coyotes are answering and how many are not. There is no guess work.
I never said the WT was a better call PERIOD. I said I prefer the coyote vocalizations of the WT as compared to the FP coyote vocalizations I HAVE HEARD. That has nothing to do with programing, customer service, higher quality remote, contest results, preference to certain distress sounds, etc. etc. There is many reasons to chose one call over another. I am focused on the 1 reason that matters to me most.
PA: "Being able to put sequences that suit me on my ecaller, as well as individual sounds, is a big advantage, IMO."
I bet it is a big selling point for a lot of guys.
Jrb: "I think he was a diehard WT fan until he experienced some frustration with the ATOM (and Martz) late last winter during a contest. I suppose he made the switch to Foxpro then? I'd venture to say that any Foxpro touting he is doing... is geared toward revenge as much as anything."
I've seen that a lot. "THE COMPANY KNOWS BEST".
KJ: "I have used a WT and most of the coyote vocals in the four states I hunt each year. I get a better response with the new FP coyote sounds, than I do with the WT coyote vocals and coyote distress. If I didn’t the FP would be in the closet instead of the WT."
Sounds to me like you made an objective comparison. Fair enough.
3 Toes: "And that would also be the reason TA goes to central South Dakota every chance he gets."
That is one of the LEAST well thought out intelligent statements I have ever seen on the internet! Haha.
Couldn't be the western experience? Couldn't be the large ranches? Couldn't be the friendships made over the years? Couldn't be a change of scenery from MN corn stubble? Couldn't be the terrain features? Naaaah! Had to be the coyote populations that are recovering from mange.
Heck Cal, he's driving by AS MANY coyotes or more in Eastern SD.
If coyote population was the only factor, he'd go to the Powder River basin in N Wyoming. Hahaha!
~SH~
[ September 07, 2010, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 07, 2010 09:57 AM
Wow, Foxbang cost me $85 and two weeks delay!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted September 07, 2010 10:07 AM
quote:
Clay Reid
_________________________
Graham TX calling champion 09
Archer City TX calling champion 09
Abiline Tx calling champion 09
Bluegrove Tx calling champion 09
Graham TX Jan.calling champion 10
Graham TX Feb. calling champion 10
Says quite a bit, don't you think?
Yeah...he lists himself as a many time calling champion but only uses electronics when he hunts?
Maybe I missed the point...but it seems everyone who hunts anymore and participates on these sites wants to list their resume as their signiture in hopes people have an idea of just who they are talking to. JMO
[ September 07, 2010, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: tawnoper ]
Posts: 53 | From: socal | Registered: Jan 2005
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted September 07, 2010 02:37 PM
quote:
That is one of the LEAST well thought out intelligent statements I have ever seen on the internet! Haha.
Couldn't be the western experience? Couldn't be the large ranches? Couldn't be the friendships made over the years? Couldn't be a change of scenery from MN corn stubble? Couldn't be the terrain features? Naaaah! Had to be the coyote populations that are recovering from mange.
Heck Cal, he's driving by AS MANY coyotes or more in Eastern SD.
If coyote population was the only factor, he'd go to the Powder River basin in N Wyoming. Hahaha!
When the plane is going in to central SD and having 50 and 60 coyote days I say that is a reasonably large population. I realize this isn't country that isn't being worked excessively, but the numbers don't lie. I'm fairly certain that the calling would be better there than Minnesota. But then again, I've never called Minnesota. You could be entirely correct about eastern SD also and the coyotes he is driving through. I try to stay out of eastern SD if at all possible!
[ September 07, 2010, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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