The New Huntmastersbbs!: Coyote Behavior Question

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Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on September 30, 2010, 08:35 AM:

Last night I witnessed a behavior I have seen several times before. It seems a little odd to me and I'm not quite sure what to make of it? As I was calling a coyote went berserk around 500 yards away. He was barking his fool head off and pacing back and fourth just like a dog behind a chain link fence. To drown him out I went to high pitched coyote pup in distress sounds. I watched the coyote in my binos to see what he would do. He shut up and actually started to work his way towads me. However I caught movement out of the corner of my eye and had the coyote in the photo screaming in and nearly on top of me. Bino's down, gun up, bark, coyote stopped...dead coyote. Anyway the behavior I don't fully understand is the barking coyote pacing all over creating and making a real ruckus. I've seen this before and each time another coyote has come charging in. There was no way that barking coyote busted me as I was tucked in and had the wind in my favor. At first I thought that perhaps coyotes that do this were suspecting something and trying to warn the whole world to not go to the call. However, since it does not seem to stop other coyotes, and if anything motivates them to come in even harder I'm starting to rethink it. Now I'm wondering if it's more of a "Hey you S.O.B. your beating me to the animal and I can't do anything other than bark at you from here." Anyway I consider many of you to be pretty smart feller's and I'm wondering what your thoughts are on this?

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 30, 2010, 09:50 AM:

I believe that your barking, pacing coyote had heard the sound you were playing, and had a bad experience with same. I believe the yapping is caused by frustration of a coyote that wants to come in and knows something ain't right. I do not believe that this yapping is meant to warn other coyotes.

Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on September 30, 2010, 09:55 AM:

Rich, I was kind'a thinking the same thing until I switched to a pup in distress and he started my direction. However the other coyote beat him there or perhaps he would have come all the way in. Seems odd that a little switch in sound would make him totally forget about the first sound. Then again maybe it did.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on September 30, 2010, 10:21 AM:

He didn't like the sound, location or both and you can never rule out the fact that he might have busted you on the way in and you didn't spot him as he snuck out of there and retreated to what he thought was a safe distance. When you turned on that FP he was just telling you the game was over as far as he was concerned

As far as coming in he might have seen the other coyote before you spotted him and seeing that coyote might have been just enough to pull him your way.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 30, 2010, 10:23 AM:

ursus21,
Yes, I do believe it was your switch to the pup distress that caused your frustrated coyote to quickly forget it's frustration and come on in to investigate. My own area is too thick with cover to watch it happen, but I have talked to others who tell me that the change in sounds can work almost like magic sometimes. I also believe that coyotes in highly pressured area's are wising up to the constant screams from an E caller. Screaming less, and waiting in silence more, seems to be working better for quite a few folks these days. Thank you for describing your experience with that yapping, pacing coyote. It is this kind of information sharing that helps folks become better callers.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 30, 2010, 10:25 AM:

"As far as coming in he might have seen the other coyote before you spotted him and seeing that coyote might have been just enough to pull him your way."
----------------------
Good tip Mr. Greenside, thanks for that post.

Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on September 30, 2010, 10:40 AM:

Greenside, I do agree that perhaphs seeing the other coyote may have triggered him to come closer. However, no way he busted me. I had actually spotted him long before he started pitching his fit. I watched him cover about a 100 yards and then go behind some trees. I waited for him to come out, but he didn't. All of the sudden he starts barking like a fool and come running out of the little patch of trees. He's a good 500 yards away. I'm buried in a rock pile with tall grass around me, and the sun is directly in his eyes. So I know he did not see me. Now as for him hearing the call before. That is a definite possiblity but the last time he would have heard it was a year ago. A few weeks ago (on Labor Day) a partner and I called in a hard charger from the same area. We were set up perhaps 150 yards further to the North when a hard charger came barreling in. However the wind shifted and he got a nose full when he was around 150 yards away. He spun around and dove into the ravine behind him never to be seen again. The difference that day though is we did not use the CS-24. Used only hand calls. He came into a Ruffidawg. So I'm thinking there is something to the comment that he remembered a bad experience from the location...moreso than recognised the sound. On a side note, after dark as I was loading the dead coyote back in the truck I heard a howl. It came from the bottom of the ravine about 1/2 mile down the mountain from me. It went from a howl to barks and howls like he was pissed off and tattling on me again. I'm guessing it was the same coyote. With that said, any suggestions on how to kill this dog?

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 30, 2010, 11:44 AM:

Set up in a different spot, different time of the day and use hand calls to produce a different type of sound. As Rich pointed out, be very conservative in your approach as far as sounds. A minute of distress and wait five to ten minutes. Be overly careful in concealing yourself and watching the cover for ears, etc.. as this coyote will probably make its approach more 'cat-like than your typical early season coyote. Basically, this coyote sounds like he's been to the dance at least once before and has not forgotten what he learned. Your objective will be to set up and offer something as far from anything else he's ever seen from all the other guys while not tipping your hand because of missing some detail. Sounds like a fun coyote to go after. As frustrating as they can be, they do give you a sense of true self-accomplishment when they go down.

Posted by Greenside (Member # 10) on September 30, 2010, 12:03 PM:

quote:
However, no way he busted me.

Well you never know for sure. You leave the truck, maybe jump a fence or two, walk to the rock pile and sneak over it or around it and setup. Might have missed that small flash of the coyote going out of sight.

I must say, I've been busted more times than I care to admit. Walk in trying my best to stay concealed, even glassing the opposite slopes and then the "O SHIT" as you spot a coyote creasting the next ridge.

Well might as well call anyway since they might be more than that one around. Right? Then as soon as you start calling the coyote you just bumped starts barking his head off. Not a good deal as far as getting that coyote is concerned. Probably won't come in no matter what you throw at him. If you have a partner the best thing to do is have him sneak out and around him, while you keep the coyote occupied by barking back and distress calling. Just keep him talking so your partner can stalk him. Don't give him a chance to shut up, if you do he might just walk away and disappear.

How to get that coyote? Not sure, but the next morning a lone howl might bring him in. But my quess is that it's going to take a long walk to get in deeper and away from where you shot that first one. Maybe a 9 month old dispersing coyote howl? [Smile]

Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on September 30, 2010, 12:17 PM:

Greenside, I don't want to be misunderstood. I get busted now and then. Heck, probably more than I realize. However I saw this coyote before he saw me. I watched him coming in. He was calm and coming in at a steady fast walk into the call. He had a deep ravine to cross with a patch of trees on his side. He walked into the trees and the next time I saw him a few minutes later he was pitching a fit. I would think that if had seen me coming in that he would not have been heading into the call. On a side note I killed a really big old male in the same area last year. I'm thinking he was probably the top dog. I'm wondering this isn't his replacement I'm dealing with. It took nearly 45 minutes of calling to dupe that old male. What gave him away was a red tailed hawk that was following him up the draw towards me. Always did like hawks. [Smile]

Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on September 30, 2010, 12:38 PM:

Mayhap there are territorial boundry issues involved with the barking coyote honoring the resident responding coyote's turf????

Don't know & am not an expert; just thinking out loud.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2010, 02:06 PM:

As far as I'm concerned, and not parsing the description in the initial post....a coyote can and will warn another coyote to danger. I have seen that too many times for it to be in doubt.

Now, the variables are many. Lots of times, a coyote will plunge into cover as you watch him respond to your stand, and never come out. He may be there in the concealment, watching, but you can't pick him out.

500 yards is five football fields, more or less, right? They say that (who's "they") a coyote doesn't have distance vision, like a pronghorn, for instance. My personal opinion is they can barely compete with humans, as far as identifying non moving objects at 500 yards. Me, I have mistaken fast moving bobcats at 500 yards a number of times, just because they were moving at coyote speeds. Those big ears help in identifying a coyote sneaking a look over a bush. Seems like a cat looks from the side of a bush, rather than over the top?

Okay, the behavior described is perfectly understandable, as far as catagorized as behavior that a coyote is guilty of. Why he does it is another thing. Yapping at the hunter and knowing he is there is a common thing. Forgetting his reason and approaching the call because of some other factor is also rather common, in my opinion. You just never know why a cautious coyote can change his mind and run into the stand without a care in the world. Ifr you just gave him a hurt pup, you can be confident that that's what did it. You could be wrong, too.

How many times have we read about two hunters being busted on stand, one guy makes a big deal of getting up and walking away, and the other guy sits tight and kills the coyote at reduced distance.

This described behavior is non remarkable, seems to me? If the question is: WHY? That's a deep subject.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on September 30, 2010, 02:32 PM:

Leonard, you must be getting long in the tooth as you are starting to repeat yourself. [Wink]

You are correct it is not remarkable. The odd part is the fact that I've seen this happen several times and each time I killed another coyote that came in hard to the call as if it were trying to beat the barking/warning coyote. That's the part that is odd to me.

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2010, 02:42 PM:

Yes, maybe long in the teeth. I have been having computer problems for a couple weeks and it is causing me to lose patience, hence the double click. Please excuse.

As far as what you describe, one hung up and another responds from a different direction, congratulations. You have found a place with a lot of coyotes.

Good hunting. LB

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 30, 2010, 04:22 PM:

"As far as I'm concerned, and not parsing the description in the initial post....a coyote can and will warn another coyote to danger. I have seen that too many times for it to be in doubt."
---------------------------------
No doubt about that Leonard, but that "warning" is a short chopped off "Woof" ain't it? I believe that is a different sound than the frustrated "yap-yap- yap" of a coyote wanting to come in to the screams but knows something ain't quite right in Denmark.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 30, 2010, 05:34 PM:

Can't say for sure but I would agree with Koko and say it could of been a territorial thing and the coyote was challengeing you or other coyote. Besides paceing back and fourth did the coyote have its tail tucked in and back arched with neck hairs raised and also scratching up the ground with back feet???

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2010, 05:52 PM:

Tim, you're kidding, right?

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 30, 2010, 06:29 PM:

No Leonard!!

I get a few coyotes every year that behave very simular to what ursus21 described.
Most times the coyote is out aways from stand 1/4 mile or little more.. They will howl and give a few barks and if I reply with a howl or some other sound I can convince them to come in and when they do they come in so very slowly. Most stands have taken 45 minutes or longer to get them in close enough for a shot. When they do come into range they put on a big display, head down and tucked in, snareling and chomping of the mouth, back arched with tail tucked in tight, and scratching up the grass with back feet. Just a guess but I would call it agressive behavior ( terr. response).... [Smile]

All the coyotes called in doing this where old males and no other coyotes where present as far as I could tell...

[ September 30, 2010, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 30, 2010, 06:46 PM:

quote:
back arched with tail tucked in tight

You see old males do this and believe it to be agressive behavior?

Good hunting. LB

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on September 30, 2010, 06:57 PM:

Here is a link to what I'm talking about...
http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com/ArchOLD/1087534847.jpg

[ September 30, 2010, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on September 30, 2010, 07:10 PM:

The behavior ursus dscribed is exactly like what I saw the old male we were after last spring who herded the two yearlings away from where Kevin and I were set up. He, too, came toward us, but was actually just intercepting the two others coming to the call so he could run them away from us. He very much knew what we were and where we were at since he first appeared downwind of me, then after crossing through the half-mile fenceline, turned and bounced on his front legs while frantically barking at the other two coyotes between us but just out of our sight. I can guaren-damned-tee you he was doing his best to warn those pups off and when that didn't work, he went in and physically forced them out of harm's way.

BTW, we never did get him as he was always hanging tight to a half-section pasture owned by the cranky old fart that doesn't allow anyone to hunt nothing for no reason. Maybe if he dies before that coyote, his kids will let us in. [Wink]

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on September 30, 2010, 07:40 PM:

It is not uncommon to see (or hear) coyotes doing the old Bark/howl that I know as a challenge howl, when the coyote is on wrong side of it's territorial boundary and hears my calls. This sound is all together different than the yapping of a frustrated coyote. The coyote in Tim's photo is certainly one pissed off coyote, and I can almost hear the bark/howls. Tim is hard of hearing, but he is right about the offensive stance. From size of that coyote's head, I would guess that it is a female but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. [Wink]

Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on September 30, 2010, 09:05 PM:

Troy, you see this alot when family groups are still intact. Adult will bark or woof the YOY back away from what may be danger. Will patrol a line to keep them back then when sure come fight. Not always depends on the coyotes personality. Shaw and I just had a similar discusion about this while he was here for the VHA deal. Les had a similar scenario on one of his recent shows. IMO. The coyote is warning its pups to stay back, I would assume the change from a howl of a wondering coyote to they may have one of our pups in trouble was the trigger. A decoy dog may have triggered it a little sooner or could have blown it all up, You never know for sure. You see that quite a bit with the dog dennin just as you described.

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 01, 2010, 05:36 AM:

I had a similar situation as Mr. Roede described, on my 2nd stand last season (date 10/2).

I had my farmer friend along (on his land) where I had called a pair (killed one) the day before. He was anxious to go, seeing one on the ground...

On this particular stand, I was calling up into a knoll back in the woods above an active heifer pasture. A 1 acre pond between us and the knoll offered a clear view across to the woods line. And natural cover surrounding the pond (crab apples & grown goldenrod) allowed for a coyote to slink around either side in relative security with just enough breaks in the cover for shot ops. The wind was blowing from the knoll out across the pond and into the pasture. Almost an ideal cross wind setup...

Anyhoo, I set farmer up to watch the fencerow looking up toward the pond & left, and I covered the woodline and brush toward the distant downwind (I'm a dog hog!) We took sides against a huge cherry tree...

After some soft distress calls about 4 minutes in to this pre-dusk sit, I spotted a set of ears slinking through the goldenrod above the pasture. OH YEAH!
This coyote was in NO rush to come to the calls, and still at least 300yds out across. We sat quietly to wait it out and make up it's mind, with a lip squeak now & again to keep the ears perked...
A minute or two later, a 'threat' type series of howls & barks erupts from our far left. Turns out, another coyote had emerged from the adjoining woodlot (maybe 400yds away( and had begun an approach mirroring ours. NOT GOOD! Reckon it saw our ATVs, despite ditching them behind some round bales. Or caught a whiff of our boot tracks on the way in...

Either way, that coyote gave us the dickens!!! It sounded like a female, but can't know for sure. Anyway, as I wait for farmer's .06 to belch, I watch my 'ears' make a 180' and retreat with a flash of fur diving for the far woodline across the pasture...

In the ensuing minutes, I tried to 'challenge' that barker, but it only served to piss off the rest of the pack back up on that knoll. They went into a barkin' & howlin' frenzy for a spell, as we listened with wide eyes. But we never did see another coyote. Dusk settled in and we eased on outta there, as the pack contiuned to howl from further & further away...

Could this have been a parental warning situation?
It made sense to me and the time, and even more so now.
Consequently, I'm planning on making that VERY same stand this weekend, but with a different approach and possibly a shotgunner at the point of the far woodlot we were busted from. We'll just hafta see if the wind will let us do it...

[ October 01, 2010, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]

Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on October 01, 2010, 07:20 PM:

I would go with the warning bark theory at this time of year versus the territorial aspects at this time of year.

Even durring the summer I have a sound after I shoot coyote 1 and the 2nd generaly the female will bark her head off at this sound, not a territorial thing so much as a warning but I think they aren;t sure what to do about it, come in or stay pat and warn the rest.

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 03, 2010, 09:25 AM:

I thunk about you this morning, ursus. First stand (and only, due to another obligation), I opened with a young female howl. Immediately had what we could easily confirm to be eight different coyotes answer us back from 270-degrees around us - every place but behind us. Most were in the creek or in a distant shelter belt full of trees, and for the most part, they offered back simple lone howl type vocalizations. When a pair of pups appeared about three hundred yards to our eleven o'clock in the trees along the creek, the adults, 500 yards to our two o'clock came unglued and began frantically barking and bringing the pups into where they were. They immediatelt complied despite the pup distress I was offfering from the caller and never gave us so much as a fleeting glance while they played grab ass on the other side of the field. Once they had most everyone rounded up, one of the adults began challenge barking me back while the other just sat on its haunches about 800 yards out and switched its gaze from the adult to me and back. For about ten minutes, I just played with the barker, mimicking what he did and working him into a total frenzy. What was interesting to see was that the adult pair quickly rounded up the youngsters using one strategy then totally changed demeanors as they redirected their attention to me. It became quickly apparent that they weren't going to come in so I pissed them off for a while then just shut down to see what they would do. It took about five more minutes for what appeared to be "mom" to calm down and decide that she had won this round at which point, she trotted to the creek and out of sight with her partner in close tow. Once we'd cleared the area and could not see any other coyotes in the open, we slunk (?) out as quietly as we could. I didn't believe going in that the pups had been booted yet and this morning's display pretty much confirmed that. Nothing down, but always interesting and educational to watch. That pair of adults has been around for the past few years and at least once a year, Kevin will get into a bitch-slapping match with them across that meadow. This was the first time I'd had the chance and all we did was talk smack at one another. The pups will disperse hereabouts in the next couple weeks and between that and the large pile of dead cattle in the corner of that meadow, that place is good for 8-10 coyotes a season. We know where they bed in the day and I assured Kevin that we'd go back some afternoon, come in along the other side and throw them something new - maybe even send him up the hill to a vantage point closer to the ridgeline they barked from this morning, depending upon the wind. Those kind are always a challenge and always fun, if you like the extra challenge.

Posted by ursus21 (Member # 3556) on October 04, 2010, 10:29 AM:

Cdog911, sounds like you had a fun but aggravating stand. I went out last Thursday (the day after the hunt at the beginning of this post.) I managed to call this coyote in for my partner, but we saw 6 others we could not get to come in. One was a group of 5. We could see them and watch their reactions to the sounds, but they didn't want to budge. I'm thinking they were a group of young'uns and they weren't interested in getting too far from their den. They were in a place where we couldn't close the distance without getting busted. So close...yet so far. Real frustrating to have them just out of reach...or rather, gun range.

Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on October 04, 2010, 12:01 PM:

Nice Coyote there Ursus! [Big Grin]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 05, 2010, 03:58 PM:

Your coyotes are furring up nicely, ursus.

I wouldn't call what happened Sunday frustrating. In fact, I call it memorable and educational, for lack of anything better. I've had that situation happen a couple times and those types of stands certainly leave me playing the game films over and over in my head, trying to find if there was something I coulda or shoulda done different or better so that next time, in the heat of the moment, my brain will kick in and I'll be conjuring up new strategies on the fly. It wouldn't have mattered Sunday as I had places to be, wasn't feeling at all well, and what hunting time we had was to be short-lived.

Couple things came to mind and anyone else here is certainly welcome to offer up any constructive criticisms or their own .02 for what they might have done, too, since discussing it is for the purpose of learning.

Had I been one of the ADC guys and this situation was one where walking away wasn't an option. I'd most certainly have played it differently. But, since I'm not and since we'll be back in that 'hood frequently over the next 3-4 months, counting our losses and pulling back to return another day wasn't and isn't a problem.

Fact is, that adult pair was stubborn and it became readily apparent that neither of them were coming in, nor did they seem to want their pups to come out and play, and since the family was still all together, the stand ended up in a stalemate. Two weeks from now, post-dispersal, the outcome will likely be very different, but that adult pair will still be on the hoof. We've seen him and engaged the "enemy" and, since I relish a trophy adult coyote over a half-dozen ignorant pups any day, my mind this season will be on peeling him.

In any event, trying to figure out why he did what he did will drive you nuts. I've thought about and re-thought about our approach, where and how we parked, how we walked in, where we were sitting, backing, opening with howls versus distress, time of day, cadence and letting the caller run continuously, etc., ad nauseum. In the end, that coyote could have had us nailed from the get-go on any one factor, or several. Maybe he had a similar experience with us last year, saw something he didn't like and bugged out before we even saw him, unaware that he was anywhere around. Maybe he responded in tandem last fall with his honey who ended up in my freezer. Who knows. Maybe he's just smarter than average, thought I was another coyote and got pissed off soon enough that it blew up my presentation enough for him to figure us out somewhere between when we started, and when he left. It's all a crap shoot. Once the dust cleared, the pups were safe, no shots had been fired, and we left empty-handed.

What we do with that is what's important to me now. That nearby deadpile will keep him and the crew close by for the time being. I was happy walking away as I could have done any of several other things - advancing and attempting to re-engage them into the open for a shot, ye ol' kitchen sink strategy with a litany of sounds, one right after the other, to get him all curious, take a hail Mary shot at 500 yards and well beyond my high-% range, and in doing any of those things, tip more of my hand than I want to before the season has even started. Best case scenario, we only would have gotten one, maybe two, leaving the remainder with a buttload of bad memories to think about every time they hear a caller play. Calling a herd of coyotes is memorable, but I'd much rather have a pair where I can kill both and leave no survivors. Instead, I chose to stand down, leave under cover and give him a week or so to settle down, having shown him very little and giving me plans b, c and d before I call Randy or Scott and call in an air strike. [Smile]

Sometimes, those old bastards are just learned up on this game. Who knows if it's the same coyote(s) that were living there last year at this time. Kevin says he sounds exactly like the one he locked up with last year. Same challenge bark. Same flat, bawling howl before that. Coincidence? Whether he is or not, he won this round. We'll go back. Try something totally 180-degrees out of phase and take what we learned Sunday and any other time we meet up with him and continue to learn his habits and what he does. Eventually, with some luck, we'll be there at the right time and he'll screw up enough to give Kevin or me a shot at him. Anything inside 375 and we're both well within a minute of coyote at that range. Coyotes like these are what make the season fun.

Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on October 05, 2010, 06:08 PM:

quote:
Couple things came to mind and anyone else here is certainly welcome to offer up any constructive criticisms or their own .02 for what they might have done, too, since discussing it is for the purpose of learning.

If you know where youre coyotes hangout you could of tried staying back farther and work the fringes with a high pitched mouse for example and try to snag one of the pups rather than go right into the core area and scream away...
Take one or two of the pups out of the picture and then come back and hit mom with the old pup distress...

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 06, 2010, 07:32 PM:

Kinda brings up the same ol question again, "to howl or not to howl" doesn't it. LOL

Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on October 07, 2010, 06:35 AM:

To follow up, I indeed went & made that same exact stand mentioned earlier. There was dang near 6" of rainfall dropped in the previous two days, so I was banking on the coyotes wanting to eat after being pinned down during the malestrom. Didn't bother with the howls right off the bat, and didn't need to...
Killed an adult female using soft distress sounds, 9 minutes in on Saturday morning. She was alone...
Next morning, got an adult male fooled not 1/2 mile from that spot. Again distress, 6 minutes in, coming alone. I did have one lone howl at me from back in the woods 10 minutes later as we sat waiting for sloppy 2nds. But nobody else showed that we could tell, at least...

Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on October 07, 2010, 08:08 AM:

I howled 4 of em up this morning, killed 2 missed one.

Is that an okie dokie-chokie?

Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on October 07, 2010, 12:10 PM:

Not all adult coyotes are cunning and sly, many are just like pups just bigger. Play them what their in the mood for and many will run a guy over. Peg legs included.

Why have they been around a few years go down to the meadow by the dead pile and trap them, comming and going from it! [Wink]

Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on October 07, 2010, 08:12 PM:

"Why have they been around a few years ..."

Assuming that it's the same pair, I just got onto this place through my partner last season. In this one section, we have five different landowners, only one of which we have permission to hunt and on whose ground the dead pile lies. They bed, by our best guess, to the northeast on the ground of someone else who won't allow us in. We can get in closer to the bedding point while still staying on this guy's place, but this early in the year, I'm hesitant to squeeze them too much or give up too much ground until we get a better idea of how they're using the area, and with all the milo, soybeans and corn still standing, how they move and where they move to and from will change a lot in the next few weeks as all that cover changes shape. We ended up taking 8, by our recollection, off this place last year but apparently, they weren't part of the cull.

"go down to the meadow by the dead pile and trap them, comming and going from it!"

I would absolutely love to. I've found so many great places to set traps and snares the last ten years that I just itch when I go through those areas, but my job doesn't allow me the time to run a trapline either before or after work. I tried trapping my first year but getting up that early started to show in my performance at work after a few days and I ended up getting chewed on a bit by the boss. On top of that, this particular spot is a 30-minute drive from home and that's a long ways to drive to trap coyotes that no one in Kansas is buying this year, just like we didn't have a single buyer for coyotes in Kansas last year. If they were worth $20, it would be worth the hassle, but even when we had 170 dead ones for the taking at our contest, the guy only offered us $2 a piece IF he had first dibs on any bobcats that were taken.

Tom,

A no-howl stand is definitely in the future for this place. Another strategy I use to open a stand with on occasion is a simple, soft three or four moans on the hand call before ramping it up. We knew we had a family group nearby and our primary targets are the adults at this point, Hell, the pups are only about 3/4 grown right now. I want to wait until they at least prime up to go after them because I hope to put up anything that looks good and store 'em until the prices come back in 20 or 30 years. LOL Of course, if they present themselves for the taking next time we're there,... a bird in the hand. Maybe I should shoot one in the liver so it starts to wailing and do what Tim said. On second thought,... that ain't right. [Roll Eyes]

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.0