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Author
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Topic: FoxPro CS-24 Review for Tim
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted February 29, 2012 03:01 PM
I read the technical bulletin and to be truthful much of it is way ove my head, but the point can be made that the might atom is not so mighty and sounds like a tad better speaker and driver in the same old WT format and a different case to house it all.
His claims that the atom is 3-5 times luder than any other call looks to be false, up to 24 bit is again misleading as tested and that the systme is ALL digital seems to be a falsehood to.
Does it make a big differance in calling? Who knows but I for one wouldn't publish something as fact if I knew is was not, but that is me.
Tim, the TX 500 remote is a great remote and uses very little power. The screen well I'm sure it was never designed to be used full function in what Tundra wookie lives and hunts.
To be honest ol' Bill never did finish his headers on WT versus FP and I think for good reason.
[ February 29, 2012, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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DiYi
Wears wife's pink panties under his camo for good luck. (yeah, right!)
Member # 3785
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posted February 29, 2012 03:46 PM
Ford vs Chevy.
And,Randy R is very perceptive in the way he signs off every one of his posts.
Posts: 623 | From: SoDak | Registered: Feb 2011
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted February 29, 2012 03:56 PM
Good point DiYi, thanks for bringing attention to that much needed breath of fresh air.
“Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error” -Marcus Tullius Cicero
[ February 29, 2012, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2012 04:38 PM
CW you can go to both sites F-P & WT and read each of there tests or claims. Who's right and who's wrong I can't say, neither can anyone else.. Both couldbe wrong and doubt either one would come forward and say so..
When I bought my callers I did'nt run to some webb site and read up on them to see who's is best over the others.. Instead I went by what I saw in the field in front of live coyotes how the caller worked and with what sounds and thats what convinced me of what caller I should buy..
I've never looked back since and have'nt question myself if I got the right caller for my use.
We could argue all day about it and no one is going to win anything.
Yeah you can load sounds into a F-P so what!!! If you have the right sounds to begin with it should'nt even be a issue.. Over the years I've found its more important on how you use the sounds ..
Take Wookie for example he has all the WT sounds and most F-P sounds available and supposeitly the best E-caller out there today and he has'nt upped his kill numbers by very much if any.. Just proves you can have all the bells and whistles and the best there is and it don't mean shit if you don't know how to use them..
I don't call and kill 400 coyotes or cats a year since I don't have the numbers to do it with. But on a personnel level I've killed more coyotes in the last few years than I thought was possable by upping my game and switching to a WT. and I know you are going to ask "could'nt I have done the same with a F-P" and my honest answer would be no not at the time. They did'nt have the vocabulary that I needed..
As for the WT remote I play most of the sounds from memory, don't have to look at a list everytime I make a stand or even look at the key pad so all those bells and whistle are useless to me and to many other callers out there...
If F-P wants to flood the market with callers have at it but its going to bite them in the ass sooner or later. So many used callers out there a guy can by one for dam near nothing.. Also sooner or later some of those used callers are going to break down and someone is going to have to pay for parts and labor. F-P will also have to keep a large inventory as well since they make so many different models...Glad its not going to be my problem..LOL
Fewer WT's in the field fewer conditioned coyotes and a good resale value if anyone decided to sell one and repairs should cost very little since the company dose'nt have to stock a large inventory or have alot of people working for them to keep the company running...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted February 29, 2012 05:04 PM
after further review: i'm gonna buy an Alpha-Dogg
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted February 29, 2012 05:09 PM
Tim what do you think Bill is doing by selling his sounds that you are using on your WT on a 149.00 Echo caller?
See there is the cover for WT again that makes zero sense, flood the market LOL. Bill has gotten into flooding ina smalle way by selling 100 of his sounds, sounds you have on your caller to mass merch stores on a caller of less quaility and at a cheaper price. Look who is calling the kettle black.
If you state it is all about the sounds and how one uses them, then what does it matter how many people have the same sounds or same caller?
Tim you can't say the FP would not have treated you the same as you have never used one or their sounds. Can you? Nopt an informed well though out opinion, just more bias. I have used all 3 WT, FP and Minaska all 3 have worked, all 3 have good and bad, some offer more options, options people look for and want and the market by some are filling those needs and wants and one other isn't. So pick and choose.
Tim we have been over this before, the reason is simple why Bill won't allow an open system it is called it will cost him money plain and simple No other reason at all MONEY<MONEY, MONEY. He doesn't listen to his customers many who have begged for an open system to remove and add sounds yet the delivery never came, even though awhile back the "word" was it was comming soon, I would ahve bet the farm it would not and has not. So some bite their lip and continue on and others switch manufactures to meet "Their" needs and wants and find out that hey these others work and work damn well and all it does is turn off more and more people. No bias opinion but a fact Tim. Use what ever you want but until you have used and given others the same time under you, to make such a statement as you made is pure Bias.
I choose not to use a WT because the owner is an egotistical know it all and has zero customer relations skills what so ever. If any of us worked for someone and treated consumers the way he has we would all be fired, he has made outlandish statements on his and his products abilities. One sticks out in my mind and he has never taken my bet to proove he and his caller can do as he advertised they could.
[ February 29, 2012, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted February 29, 2012 05:20 PM
quote:
Take Wookie for example he has all the WT sounds and most F-P sounds available and supposeitly the best E-caller out there today and he has'nt upped his kill numbers by very much if any..
Very very wrong. I've doubled my numbers for the past three seasons and tripled the lynx take over prior years. I'm not giving all the credit to an e-caller for those results either, I've simply learned some new tricks and accessed new some new areas to hunt.
The e-caller reliability and a handful of sounds is definitely a bonus though. Reliable up for my hunting style simply means the CS-24. I've had too many let downs with the WT's (all models) over the years.
Coyote Whacker,
Very excellent post indeed and well written.
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 29, 2012 06:08 PM
The coyotes being the survival champions they are, have been learning little more every year when it comes to the constant wah,wah,wah,s of distressed rabiits over an E caller's speaker. Enter the coyote vocal's a few years ago, and VOILA, the calling got better for awhile. There were only a very limited number of coyote vocal's available at the time, so coyotes started wising up to those coyotes they heard over there that caused their buddies to get shot at. Enter Three Toes with brand new coyote vocals (not Canada coyotes)that are labeled correctly, and the coyotes again hear a stranger in their territory. Now 3 Toes is still young and strong, so will most likely be bringing us more new sounds. Not just coyotes either. His rabbit scream recordings are very good also. I hope that 3 Toes will catch a few birds real soon and teach them how to squeal because I could use some new bird distress sounds. Sounds are not the whole ball game, you still need to find good coyote country, scout that country, and know how to properly use your calls. Some guys will learn, and some will not. You must be willing to listen when a proven coyote killer speaks, and you need to take his advice.
[ February 29, 2012, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2012 10:47 PM
quote:
Tim what do you think Bill is doing by selling his sounds that you are using on your WT on a 149.00 Echo caller?
I don't know, you should ask him...
Sure they are useing some of the sounds but perhaps they are a lesser grade of sounds he has on hand, you know not top shelf.. Then again you have to look at what they are useing them in, may not get much of a high quality sound out of the unit.. I don't know...
Maybe Wookie should buy one and give us a review on it..LOL
quote:
If you state it is all about the sounds and how one uses them, then what does it matter how many people have the same sounds or same caller?
It dose'nt matter as long as they have not been stolen or pirated. "WT sounds were never ment to be in any other caller except a WT"". "same as with F-P".. Anyone that does have WT sounds or F-P sounds on another brand of caller are in violation of the copyright laws and it not the same as the ones written for CD.'s or cassettes... So if you have them good for you or anyone else, but its stealing. (theft) From what I understand you can buy F-P sounds or some of them to put on what ever caller you want, these sounds would follow under the same copyright as CD's and cassettes..
quote:
Tim you can't say the FP would not have treated you the same as you have never used one or their sounds.
Yep you got me there I've never used one.. I have listened to the sounds they do have though and gone through there list..
For some of the coyotes I call to it may take a large var. of sounds to get them to come in close enough for a shot, mostly coyote vocals..
You proably never called this way so you won't understand it but I'll go though it one more time..
With some conditioned coyotes a simple prey distress sound will not bring them in and coyote vocals will have to be used, from my exsperiance.. You have to work up in agression as you call with the WT vocals, too agressive and you could blow the whole deal, not agressive enough and they may just stand there and howl at you. So on a stand with one of these coyotes I may go through half of the coyote vocals I have or a little more to get the coyote pissed off enough to come in close enough so I can hopefully kill it. Each coyote is different some take a few vocals and some take alot with alot of patient to go with it.. My time and trips are limited so I go after whats there and I don't always get them all but I'm getting better at it...
So anyway F-P is missing some of the vocabulary that I need to be successfull, just abunch of different howls isnt going to cut it for me..
Maybe some day we can sit down and talk about it and perhaps you can walk away with a better understanding of how I do things to make them work..
I had help along the way from Scott and Randy and had to pick up the rest on my own so "THanks to both of them""...
Yes Bill has his sounds locked up to make money, do you exspect him to do it for free?????
His sounds are the same price as J.S sounds on cassette, give or take a dollar..
Dose'nt F-P also have a lock on there sounds as well???
I think in the future you will see a open system in the WT so a owner can add sounds and yet let WT protect what they have..The problem is to come up with a system that will work and will keep the WT sounds where they are suppose to stay and keep someone like Wookie from hacking the system is going to cost money and research..
You know Bill is'nt going to do it if its not bullet proof...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2012 11:01 PM
Good post Rich and I "agree" with most of it..
The only thing I don't agree with is turning a coyote off to other coyotes howls even if a coyote has heard the same howl before.. Its just the same coyote to them that scared them off or shot at them, I know I can get by with the same howl but I throw them a curve ball by adding another howl of a different coyote or use it in a different sequence or a different sound along with it.. The main thing is just kill them the first time or don't give them a reason to fear the same sounds the next time you use them..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted February 29, 2012 11:53 PM
But WT DID make a programmable caller back in the day. I have a bunch of them stacked up and use the open source sounds freely on my FoxPro. No encryption on those old things, just pop the Compact Flash or MMC card out and drop & drag to the FoxPro. No copyright laws broken since I own all the callers, sounds, and have not hacked software to get them. Of course there are only a handful that I use, but it's handy to have almost all of them if I want. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 01, 2012 08:12 AM
" The main thing is just kill them the first time or don't give them a reason to fear the same sounds the next time you use them"
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Tim,
It is amazing to see how ignorant you actually are. I thought that everyone who has been around calling very long would know that there are many coyotes that detect the hunter that is making the screams, but the hunter never see's the coyote. Although men don't like to admit it, nobody but nobody kills every coyote that he calls. It is a widely known fact that every coyote out there recognizes the voice of those coyotes in that territory. It doesn't take a genius to realize that the sound of a stranger in their territory is only a stranger until such time as they investigate the sound of that stranger. It is only common sense to realize that using the same howls every time you go out, will soon be a danger signal to resident coyotes. Having known your lack of basic thought process after reading you posts for several years, I am not surprised to see you show your ignorance once again.
Happy hunting,
Rich
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 01, 2012 11:54 AM
Tim, I just saw this ad on PM and you came to mind instantly:
If I were to buy you a t-shirt, would you agree to wear it @ Mr. Coyote this year???
And to go along with, I could also make a custom baseball helmet styled Buckethead adaptor to link with any of your WTs?
C'mon, just think of that visual for a sec & tell me it wouldn't be the bomb-diggity???
lemme know!!!
That'd make for some good fun
[ March 01, 2012, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2012 12:37 PM
Fred, with all your money, couldn't you outfit the whole group of contestants? Free shipping for orders over $50. I used to think Dan, (the man) was loaded? Do you really have levels on every rifle? Wow!
Good hunting. LB
Just fukin' with ya, Fred. You are good people.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 01, 2012 12:58 PM
Thanks Leonard (I know you love those smileys)
Tell ya what, if YOU can get to SD, I'll have a Major League Hoodie with your name embroidered on it waiting to keep you warm & cozy!!!
Heck, if anything, just hangin' out in Randy R's man cave would be worth the trip alone, I promise...
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2012 01:43 PM
The last time I went to South Dakota, the big jet tried to land twice, in extremely limited visibility, then turned around and flew back to Denver! Denver had some severe weather of it's own that day, tornados everywhere. After sleeping on the floor all night in A concourse, I got a ride on a little twelve seat prop but they still couldn't get me to Rapid City, had to land in Pierre instead. I swear, that airport is smaller than our local Upland airport, Cable Airport. Small and a lack of security was probably the reason why my ride tried to steal luggage. lol
You had to see the look on Scott's face when I told him that wasn't my suitcase he was carrying. He made excellent time from the parking lot to the terminal before somebody noticed their missing bags.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2012 02:03 PM
Fred just give the stuff to Kelly to wear, he earned it.. Besides is'nt Kelly the true inventer of the bucket-head E-call.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2012 02:11 PM
quote:
I thought that everyone who has been around calling very long would know that there are many coyotes that detect the hunter that is making the screams, but the hunter never see's the coyote. Although men don't like to admit it, nobody but nobody kills every coyote that he calls
Perhaps you don't see them all or kill most that do appear. Dose'nt mean its the same for me or others.. I actually do have a high percentage of called and killed coyotes, I can't help it since thats just the way it is.
I do miss out on some doubles or thriples at times, just get one of them ![[Frown]](frown.gif) but the ones that do get away I just come back for later.. I had a pretty good track record a few seasons ago... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
On one of my trips a few seasons ago I called in and killed dam near every coyote that Roede helped me locate 3-4 days prior. Everynight when I returned to Pierre I would stop by at Roedes and show him my days take of coyotes and see if I matched his days take or passed it.. I always fell short a few coyotes but thought I did pretty good for a rec. caller.. LOL
Sometimes I wonder Rich if you are'nt one of those guys that over thinks calling coyotes and gives them way too much credit...
One thing I will agree with and thats there may be alot of coyotes that hear my calling and never come in. But on the bright side there are still alot of them that do come in.
I'd say in my case I may have alot of them that don't come in due to my calling at full volume and there is a terr. line holding them back.. But there is a bright side to this as well, just move farther down the road into another coyotes terr., problem solved..
[ March 01, 2012, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 01, 2012 04:11 PM
"Sometimes I wonder Rich if you are'nt one of those guys that over thinks calling coyotes and gives them way too much credit."
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Yeh Right, Timmy. LOL You are absolutely clueless.Without Randy to hold your hand, you would be a complete Zero in South Dakota. And you see every coyote that comes in to your call? Another dimwit statement.
Elbee,
Do you have a Dimwit of the year award? We could all vote on who is most deserving of that award. Timmy would cherish it forever.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted March 01, 2012 04:21 PM
Timmer. DiYi are heading to Mont. for a 3-4 day shoot-em-up in the a.m. any last minute tid-bits of wisdom you wanna throw at us??
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 01, 2012 04:55 PM
Dress warm!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted March 01, 2012 05:07 PM
Tim you sound like a copy of Bill Martz LOl. All your territorial stuff and loud volume BS. All coyotes howl and bark at a certain volume they don't change volume with their sounds.
Sure there is a differance in tone and such but volume has nothing to do with it. Unless you know what age class of coyotes your dealing with and many, many times we don;t one is better off durring normal fur calling times to stick with higher pitched younger coyote vocals, no news there. Keep the deep stuff and agressive stuff for the times of the year it works best, that isn;'t durring normal fur calling times for the majority Tim.
Your zen like approach has little to do with it either. Tim I lived in SD for 18 years and have called coyotes in various areas and called them 12 months out of the year and know which counites your calling, the terrian and the numbers of coyotes in those areas. Your working cattle ranches for the most part, not sheep ranches and your working areas with above avg coyote numbers, because they are cattle ranches and not sheep ranches. Your hunting reservation as well that have zero predator control done on them, the main limiting control method has been mange for many years.
Far easier to work easy areas I get it Tim. Any smart caller would do the same. FP sounds have worked for me 12 months out of the year so I do take offence when you state it is the elabortate sounds of Mr Martz that is the "getter done" type sounds. Pure BS and will throw the BS flag all day long with you or Randy R on that topic. It is what the WT faithful want to hang their hat on.
Your calling in areas that get less pressure and calling at times of the year where the population is at it's highest points and calling areas where frankly many ranchers have less troubles with coyotes so they don't percive them as the threat that sheep ranches do, that is a fact. Coyotes kill sheep and calves without a doubt but the highest majority of cattlemen call durring spring calving once calving is done the phone stops ringing for the most part.
The ZEN sound idea of the WT is pure and simple BS passed on from one WT kool aide drinker to the next and some just happen to be the grand Kool Aide drinkers
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2012 05:41 PM
Dress warm and watch your muzzle.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted March 01, 2012 05:48 PM
sposed to be in the 30's but ok.
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted March 01, 2012 05:52 PM
Sit, Spin and start shootin'
Forget about dressing warm. Most quick and light.
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