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Author
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Topic: FoxPro CS-24 Review for Tim
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 03, 2012 08:32 PM
I may do that, Tim. Good suggestion!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31488 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 03, 2012 08:45 PM
Tim,
I don't call cross-wind, I place the caller cross-wind. The speaker is pointed down-wind and toward that patch of cover where the coyotes hang out during the day. I like to call towards the coyotes rather than aim the sound away from them. Spooky coyotes, which is another way of sayin "Highly Pressured" coyotes are not likely to approach the caller unless they can either see the screaming critter or smell the screaming critter. When I first started calling I liked to keep the wind in my face. I used mouth blown calls, and the coyotes came real well for the first two or three years. After that, the coyotes stopped coming very often. Around here you need to get in to the cover before you will have much luck in calling these spooky coyotes. I learned from my own mistakes, and by listening to those callers that were better than me. For six or eight years, I drove over 700 miles to get in to really good coyote country in north Texas. Those coyotes were really dumb for the first few years, but like all coyotes, they got wiser. Think about what I am telling you Tim. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is sometimes called insanity. With coyote calling you need to change your methods to fit the situation in that particular area.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 03, 2012 08:49 PM
Leonard they have a vynl/foam cheek comb that is glued on with just adhesive that is easey to remove if you don't like it.. Not sure who makes them. I have one that I got from lock-stock and barrel which are no longer in business..
If you want to go that route and can't find them you can have the one I got.. They come in 3 heights I think and I have the taller of the three. When I went the custom route in my rifles I got new stocks with the high comb so I no longer use it...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 03, 2012 09:04 PM
quote:
With coyote calling you need to change your methods to fit the situation in that particular area.
I agree and thats why my methods differ so much from youre's.. Even though I make some changes from time to time to adapt to a certain area the main thing is I don't give up the high ground or the wind (if I have a choice) and use the lay of the land to my advantage as much as possable..
Even though my caller sits besides me I still use it to my advantage by the direction I have it faceing...
Example if I'm calling with a cross wind the caller is on my up wind side and turned to face the wind or faceing the 2:00 position...
On a cross wind say its out of the north and I have a drainage running north and south I set up on the east hill side or where two drainages come to a point, I can cover alot more ground this way with the caller...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted March 03, 2012 10:54 PM
You should get a louder caller, I don't think what you have is loud enough for the WT techniques. Get yourself a Krakatoa and then they'll cross any boundary line to get the intruder. Shoot, they'd probably leave a kill site with fresh meat to get you with that thing. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'll even sell you an old programmable WT so you have the sounds you need to put on the Krakatoa. That there would be a winner, sure to help increase your fur money. You could even use the new FoxPro coyote sounds, which are better than the comparable WT sounds in that type of vocal too. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ March 03, 2012, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted March 04, 2012 07:02 AM
I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..
Tim that makes zero sense LOL. Try using the proper shot and choke and that shotgun is MORE than ample for coyotes out to 40 yrds. Tim you think you don't have situations where a shotgun would have added coyotes to your take even when calling SD hey?
Ol' Scotty looking good But what is your point? Because you called in a coyote off a carcass that is why the WT is the "Best in the West" ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 04, 2012 07:11 AM
My point was coyotes are'nt always going to come close enough and that 40 yd shot could turn into a 50 yds. shot. Any way its not reliable enough IMO.. Nope have'nt had a stand in S.D. in a long time that I wish I had the shotgun along with..
Get them in the open and below a ridge top and hammer them with the rifle..
My point was Wookie said this; quote:
quote:
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You should get a louder caller, I don't think what you have is loud enough for the WT techniques. Get yourself a Krakatoa and then they'll cross any boundary line to get the intruder. Shoot, they'd probably leave a kill site with fresh meat to get you with that thing.
Did'nt need no F-P to do it and still don't..
This is the kind of stuff I call around. Put them where you can handle them and you woun't need the shotty..
Thata a pair laying there together on the ground..
Another typical stand;;
[ March 04, 2012, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Randy Roede
"It's Roede, like in Yotie
Member # 1273
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posted March 04, 2012 08:24 AM
Randy, hows the family doin, everybody readjusted to the new jobs, location, etc.
Hope so!
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The only person dumber than the village idiot is the person who argues with him!
Posts: 669 | From: Pierre SD | Registered: Mar 2007
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted March 04, 2012 10:04 AM
Showing a dead carcass with a coyote beside it does not show that you pulled the coyote off of it. Anybody could sneak in and snipe a coyote off of a kill, no ground shattering technique there.
If you subscribe to the WT Loud and Proud ideology, then when does too much volume enter into the equation? The MA-21 is supposedly louder than all of their prior models, so does that make all prior models inferior?
[ March 04, 2012, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 04, 2012 02:58 PM
quote:
If you subscribe to the WT Loud and Proud ideology, then when does too much volume enter into the equation?
When you are calling to close to a terr. line, some may not cross it and some will and how far depends on the coyote.. Some coyotes are a little more braver also when in a group of 2 or more. It helps to locate your coyotes and then work at them from the fringes rather than go head to head in the center of all the howling..
At home the coyotes or most of them don't seem to have a terr. line since there are fewer of them around but the thing with them is they will only travel so far to come to a call, so you have to be in close and full volume dose'nt seem to bother them or atleast the ones I have called in...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 04, 2012 04:05 PM
They will only come in so far? How far is that? It's in the rules, somewhere?
You don't know where the boundaries are, but they know. And, they are flexible, due to conditions.
One thing he said that I agree with. In a hell of a lot of cases, they are hardly ever bothered by volume. Sometimes, yes. But I do not believe it to be the rule? Whatever the volume, leave it alone, even on hard chargers.
Volume is a very deep subject, lots of theories. Some people start low and after several minutes, jack it up a little. I do it a little different on day stands. I start somewhat low but within the first minute, I hit the volume. I think it gets them moving, if they might be a mile away, or so, If I lower it, it will be after 5 or 6 minutes when the far dogs are getting closer, but it doesn't hurt a thing to leave it jacked.
It's just that, how fast does a coyote approach a call? Maybe at a fast pace, but what would that be? A fast human over uneven ground would have a hard time averaging 3½ miles per hour. A coyote can do at least twice as fast without breaking a sweat. So, that's 7or 8 MPH. In 30 minutes that's 4 miles and in 15 minutes, it is 2 miles. You can argue with my math but that is what I base my stands on. He hears the call (under good conditions) at least a mile and a half away and if he is coming in, he should be spotted sometime before twelve minutes. And, that's conservative. They might be on the way at ten or twelve miles per hour so that means he will be within shooting distance inside of my GOLDEN SEVEN MINUTES. After that, I'm already thinking about the next stand. But, without the volume to get them rolling in your direction, you are calling to a half mile of wasteland and jacking the volume for the second half of the stand, that doesn't allow enough time for them to get to you from a mile and a half, unless you get real lucky.
Show me where I'm wrong?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31488 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted March 04, 2012 04:42 PM
Heck Leonard, a coyote can walk 6 mph or more, and can cover a lot more ground than that when in a hurry.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 04, 2012 05:02 PM
I said:
quote:
A fast human over uneven ground would have a hard time averaging 3½ miles per hour. A coyote can do at least twice as fast without breaking a sweat. So, that's 7or 8 MPH.
I could be wrong, but whatever it is, it's quite a bit faster than a human. My point being; even if they are over a mile away, they can be within rifle range in six minutes. That makes no allowance for the transient that is walking by, a mile away, six minutes into the stand. And, that's why I wait twelve minutes.
Good hunting. LB
edit: Notice how dapper Scott is looking, these days? He is wearing clothes I wouldn't want to be wearing, laying down in cow pastures.
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[ March 04, 2012, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31488 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 04, 2012 10:34 PM
I agree with most of what you said Leonard.. Rather than move the volume up and down on my stands I just leave it play wide open but will start out with a softer sound and then work up in loudness..In most cases when cold calling you don't know for sure where the coyotes are or direction they are comeing from. I've watched some come straight in at a trot but also have seen them stop after going so far and then would have to turn the caller back on to keep them comeing or interested it.. I try to start my stands with less calling and as it progresses go to more calling knowing some hang up from time to time.. If there is one small hill between me and the coyote I may or maynot stop playing the caller and let the coyote do a little searching. Alot depends on how and where from my postition the coyote is comeing in and if there are any objects in the way that could mess up a shot or keep the coyote out of view I may keep the caller going hopeing to pull the coyote through the bad spots if any.. No 2-3 stands are the same but there are ways to make them work out so its a success.. Kellys sig says calling coyotes alot like checkers, IMO its more like chess and you need to think ahead and be as ready for the next move...
The pic I posted of Scott is an old one and the last time I saw Scott I had to take a double take as he changed a little but he is still a hell of a nice guy...
I hope Scott gets some time in the future to do some Rec. calling and post up a few pic.s along with some stories...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted March 05, 2012 06:12 AM
Randy thanks for asking! Yes family is doing well trapped a nice pile of coons last fall and will be looking to expand my lines this year.
Plenty of coyotes around here for sure just all the 12.00 types
Yet still fun to mess around with.
I have heard their might be some changes for the postive in the program! I hope for everyones sake they fall in place and work out for the ranchers and you guys working for them.
Here is a pic of my new country far different than NW SD ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
[ March 05, 2012, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 05, 2012 08:53 AM
Tim:I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..
This coming from the guy who shoots coyotes with a .17 caliber at very long ranges and on the run no less. lol
Shotguns are VERY effective out to 40 yards,no matter what the country you're calling. Just gotta be alittle more patient. Just sit back and let em come. I've shot them with a shotgun in open country,with just short stubble grass,and also thick Cedar/sagebrush country.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 05, 2012 10:53 AM
Well, the place for shotguns, in my version of reality, is to compensate for the irregularities of terrain features in many places I hunt.
In other words, it may be nice to have a commanding view from a bluff, but I have to deal with imperfect situations, or go home. I might have the best open view downwind, but be blocked on one or more sides which leads to the possibility of a coyote in my lap, while I am hoping for a nice, sensible 100 yard shot directly downwind. When they burst out of cover, they can burst right back into cover if I can't reposition my sticks quickly.
What is nice to have is a solid understanding of what forty yards looks like. I am someone that does not have much faith in shotguns past 40 yards, and limited faith within that distance. In other words, I am not surprised, at all if a 40 yard coyote needs another insurance round. Let's see? At $3 a pop, that doesn't leave much profit in a $12 coyote, if I have to hammer him twice.
I think, if anybody knows the usefulness of a shotty, it might be Chad, at night, from the truck. That is where a fair majority of my coyotes have met their end, but I still think a scattergun is useful on some stands.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I feel the need to clarify the last paragraph. Shotgun kills, at night from the vehicle are not common, but I manage to snag a few, depending on the peculiarities of terrain features and the fact that you don't know everything you need to know about a stand until you begin, )turn on the light) and then find out there is a convenient wash running right up to the road and that might be exactly where a coyote will surprise you.
[ March 05, 2012, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31488 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted March 05, 2012 11:06 AM
"In other words, it may be nice to have a commanding view from a bluff, but I have to deal with imperfect situations, or go home. I might have the best open view downwind, but be blocked on one or more sides which leads to the possibility of a coyote in my lap, while I am hoping for a nice, sensible 100 yard shot directly downwind. When they burst out of cover, they can burst right back into cover if I can't reposition my sticks quickly."
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That is the sort of country that I call also. I do OK in there with my rifle, but I want to try the shotgun real soon. Tomorrow is supposed to be a nice calm day, so maybe I can get out there to whack one. I long ago stopped using shooting sticks while calling. I sit with my back up against a tree or rock whenever I can. I sit with my left knee up, and use that knee as my rest.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 05, 2012 11:27 AM
The reason I went with a second firearm(shotgun) on my calling stand is because I was finding that to often I was limiting my stand selections when using a rifle only.
Leonard you know the country in Northern Nevada,Some areas are very open with grass and scattered sage brush with nice little hills for a perfect vantage.Perfect rifle stand.
But other areas are flat with thick sage brush,these areas hold ALOT of coyotes.But are pretty tough to call with a rifle.That's why I started carrying both.
Now I just take it(shotgun) because I have seen to many times where it has come in handy.Whether it be handling multiples or just getting an unexpected coyote in your lap.
I really can't think of a time it has hurt me to pack the shotgun along,except maybe when I've killed a couple big Nevada coyotes and I have to pack them back along with both guns. lol but killing to many coyotes is never something I complain about. LOL
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 05, 2012 02:45 PM
Well, I "thought" I knew northern Nevada, and didn't understand Dave's reservations about getting stuck in the mud. I found out within a couple hours of leaving a graded road, and we were stuck good. The trouble was, I had never been up there in spring conditions. By December, I was always through with Nevada and hunting along the southern border where the numbers are far greater.
Live and learn. Dave was 100% right. I'm surprised that in 40 years, I had never been stuck anywhere in Nevada. I can't say that about any other state, but never stuck in Nevada.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31488 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted March 05, 2012 03:05 PM
Yeah Northern Nevada can be pretty nasty in February,March,and April.Been there done that....lol
One nice thing about Northern Nevda though is it might get mucky as hell in the daytime with 50-60 degree temps .But it usually freezes at night at least through March.And you can get out of some of those areas early in the morning.Sometimes. lol
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1626 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 05, 2012 03:25 PM
I believe Gerry Blair made pretty good use of a 10 gauge out to 60 yards or so, using BB shot.
[ March 05, 2012, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 05, 2012 05:28 PM
I chased a coyote out of some thick stuff today to one of the blockers that likes to use a shotgun.. Coyote went past the shooter about 35-40 yds and first shot hit it about midship and back and knocked the coyote down, but was back up and running like nothing happened and then a second shot was fired which hit mostly up around the head and shoulder area and dropping a coyote in its tracks finally...
Good thing the area was pretty open where the coyote came out or he may not have gotten a second shot.. Its also a good reminder why I don't like shotguns..LOL
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5083 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted March 05, 2012 05:46 PM
i don't have much input on shotguns and how the perform on coyotes but... i would think that a shottie would be much more effective on southern coyotes than a super heavily fuured up northern??.
wish i woulda had a shottie yesterday in MT. wide open, not a tree / bush in sight and had 2 pales come FLYING in to my (FOXPRO FURY) fully volumed up. had one come to 4 feet .done startled the shit outta me,but i recovered and took her up the pooper straight away at about 150 with the rifle
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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