|
Author
|
Topic: FoxPro CS-24 Review for Tim
|
coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
|
posted March 02, 2012 08:30 PM
wolf howls would have zero effect on a coyote pair working on sheep. Your not going to run them off a food source. They have been hammered and hurrased shot at, gunned from above and the killing will continue on, the home place can and will change, even the timing of the kills but your not going to run them off a food source.
Kill them and you slow down recruitment to a degree, depends on how many pairs are backed up behind them. Kill coyotes within a few miles when locked on a den and you can make head way for sure.
Historically coyote pairs will pick and choose denning locations that offer cover, water and a close by relevant food source and in sheep country that means lambs.
I have killed family group and pups annually on the same places year after year in an area less than 1/4 mile of each other. New coyotes moving up the habitat chain annually.
Liken it to deer or antelope on a easy food source in the winter, haze them all you want they will find a way to come back and feed.
[ March 02, 2012, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: coyote whacker ]
--------------------
This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted March 02, 2012 08:56 PM
Ok; For the most part, I try to stay out of these petty, no win squabbles, but at this point I have to ask:
Tim, if the coyotes come right up to your caller (that you place next to you) why carry a wiz-bang rifle & take shots at 300 / 400 plus yards?? The walk out & back to retrieve cuts into a huge amount of hunting time.
Why not just carry a shottie and ground sluice the coyotes at 30 / 40 yards?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7601 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted March 02, 2012 10:25 PM
And while you're answering everything else Mr. All Things Everything, what kind of waders do you recommend? I want some really good one's because the level of dung in here keeps gettin' deeper. Keep up the good work pro.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 02, 2012 10:32 PM
quote:
Like Bill M telling me via a phone call that he and his sound box and sounds could actually run coyotes out of a territory
I agree with you but I also agree on what Bill said...
The western coyotes seem to be more agressive than some of the coyotes in other parts of the country and are more willing to stick around and fight it out for what food they can get, they are also more territorial compared to other areas and some also willing to come in and defend there young or just another young coyote or maybe join in and kick it ass or any other reasons you could come up with...
Some areas of the country coyotes willnot try to defend there terr. but turn tail and run instead, some will not protect there young as well..Some areas a coyote will give up its terr. and just move over or find a new area with less pressure from other coyotes..
I've seen it happen here for example as I was going through the stages of trying to figure out my coyotes. Some sounds used here can be to aggressive and force a coyote to move..
The coyotes here are so spooky but some canbe called and some cannot or atleast in the time frame I want to call them...
I have some areas that the cover is too thick for us to hunt and some areas that may have a few small pieces of land we can get access to and the coyotes know they are safe there...
I can come in and get close to them and use some aggressive sounds and blow them right out of the area into a place where we can get at them.. I also have a few coyotes I made some mistakes on and caused them to move out of 1-2 miles sections and take up res. in another and they refuse to come back into the oringanal sections. There is plenty of food and cover in the section they moved to so they will stay there for some time and may move back or may not...
So I'd say Bill is half right and you are half right all depending on where you live in the country.. You need to broaden your mind a little or open your eyes a little wider...
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 02, 2012 10:45 PM
quote:
Ok; For the most part, I try to stay out of these petty, no win squabbles, but at this point I have to ask:
Tim, if the coyotes come right up to your caller (that you place next to you) why carry a wiz-bang rifle & take shots at 300 / 400 plus yards?? The walk out & back to retrieve cuts into a huge amount of hunting time.
Why not just carry a shottie and ground sluice the coyotes at 30 / 40 yards??
Koko; I don't like to let them get in that close so I shoot them early... Too many things can happen when they are in close when I'm calling alone. I've had them run right past me on a few stands though and then circle to my downwind side about 50 yds or so and then I would take them, it don't happen very often though..( maybe once a year or more)
There is also no garrentee the coyotes are always going to come in close enough for the shotgun, I'm not that good. And I don't like to carry two guns.. Learn to shoot the rifle and go hunting...
Most of my stands I can just drive down to the dead coyote with my truck or ATV, some I do have to walk to and drag back out which is just part of the deal but I don't worry about looseing a few minutes here or there as I'm not doing a contest...
IMO shotties should be used for bird hunting or deer hunting when slugs are required.. Shooting coyotes or other fur bearers just don't sit well with me so I don't use them anymore than I have to.. Our nite law requires them though when useing a light so I have no choice other than wait for snow cover and full moon and then use the rifle...
Wookie; The neopreme waiders are pretty good but in your case they won't do you much good since your way over your head in it... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ March 02, 2012, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
|
posted March 02, 2012 11:20 PM
quote:
The western coyotes seem to be more agressive than some of the coyotes in other parts of the country and are more willing to stick around and fight it out for what food they can get, they are also more territorial compared to other areas and some also willing to come in and defend there young or just another young coyote or maybe join in and kick it ass or any other reasons you could come up with...
Really? Please expound on your knowledge of western coyotes since I don't see this type of behavior, I have to wonder what I'm missing.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 02, 2012 11:36 PM
You see Jim you just proved my point, coyotes don't behave the same in different areas of the country.. They do have alot of simularities as far as being a coyote...
Another example: Do a majority of your AZ coyotes respond to a pup in distress. I'm sure you will say yes... Here at home most will not, either they lay tite in there beds or run in the other direction..
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted March 03, 2012 12:06 AM
Mr. All Things Anything Anytime it appears as though it's you who is having to defend every single one of your delusional theories here, not me. Keep up the good work Ace, the entertainment and humor is great!
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 03, 2012 01:58 AM
My shottie doesn't sit well with you? NOW you tell me! Where were you when I was wasting $3 a pop patterning the beast?
Okay, okay. 835 Mossberg for sale with kool sight and even cooler choke tube. Reply via PM feature, please. If you have it activated?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31509 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
|
posted March 03, 2012 07:28 AM
Tim your not moving coyotes out of an area for any "real" length of time. I think your confusing what a coyote naturally does at times of the year with when you happen to be out calling them and adding human pressure.
In more urban areas it stands to reason you could pressure a coyote and they could move for a short period and have to move further due to less ideal area, but it isn't because of the caller or sounds it is the human pressure, and good coyote habitat will always have coyotes in it. It has nothing to do with the "magic" of sounds as coyotes communicate with each other all the time, agressive coyotes will be agreesive coyotes and Non agressive coyotes will be such. Both can and will kill sheep, the best areas will generally have the more agressive coyotes for obvious reasons in a stbale coyote population. Sorry Mr Martz.
Tim try your pup in distress in May,June and July an see if your response changes, let me know.
Agression has alot to do with coyote densities and prey base and age class agree 100% what it doesn't have to do with is what caller your using or sound that is a fact. Your volume or sound choice isn't going to change their nature Tim, you have to offer them something that will want them to expound on.That will change with the coyotes being called and reasons why the gruff old coyote vocals better left alone for the fur periods of calling. So there is no magic in the "black box" or Mr Black boxes sounds ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
The old gruff sounds sure won't make them come in but they will just shut up and be quite, yet still make there living in the same areas, just will do so in the shadows so to speak.
--------------------
This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted March 03, 2012 09:05 AM
El Bee;
I feel really bad about the shame & disgrace that you have to live with by owning a shottie gun. I want to help. I, myself, having no shame & having disgraced myself numerous times already, have no problem with shotties, Mini-14s and 30-30s.
Therefore, bring the source of your pain over to my house along with the case & ammo and I'll give you a hundred bucks for it & grill us up some burgers for lunch, to boot.
Remember, I'm here to help. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7601 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
|
posted March 03, 2012 09:19 AM
Tim.....Tim...........Tim;
What ARE we going to do with you???
About the coolest thing a person can do when calling is to see a tiny speck waaaaaay out there grow into a coyote coming in like it's on a string, right to you.
The ONLY thing that can be any cooler is if the coyote comes right up to the caller and stands up on it's hind legs trying to get to the rabbit. The expressions that a coyote can make are worth more than the fur check.
And when you stroll over to pick him up and the shot cup is laying right next to him, you know that you didn't just fool him.......you REALLY fooled him.
--------------------
And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7601 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 03, 2012 10:56 AM
quote:
My shottie doesn't sit well with you? NOW you tell me! Where were you when I was wasting $3 a pop patterning the beast?
You can keep your shotty Leonard, just don't exspect me to use it... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 03, 2012 11:18 AM
I can't place my shottie in the same catagory as a Mini 14. I understand the mistake of buying one, in the first place, but not offering it for sale, after seeing what it can do is, a puzzlement?
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31509 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 03, 2012 11:53 AM
quote:
Tim try your pup in distress in May,June and July an see if your response changes, let me know.
I've been there already and even went so far as useing other pup distress sounds made by others and also with a hand calls.. Same results...
I do have one sound that works better here than pup distress but its not fool proof and is only good for a few coyotes...
My latest adventure was last summer, I had gone out and located a den with a handfull of pups and two adults.. I PM a member here to let him know what I was up to and we decussed a few strategys and then I waited for the perfect day with the right wind conditions and then moved into the den area setting up on a small hill and looking done in the area of the den... There was a small hill in front of me and the den hole was on the other side so I could not see the pups... I started off with just some mouse squeaks at low to med. volume and useing them spareingly, (called very little)... As time went by I then switched to a little birdie distress and then onto a few other sounds.. I was on stand roughly a hour and nothing showed so then I went to a non-threatening coyote howl and at this time the pups lit up and started howling from behind the small hill and never showing themselves, and shortly Mom and Pop started in howling and barking from 300 yds away from some thick plum brush and to the right of the den still up wind of my position..
I tried some other coyote vocals and still could'nt get the adults to come out and show themselves so then I went to pup in distress and still nothing.. I just sat there after that for 15-30 minutes and still nothing so I then gave a lone howl and the only coyotes to respond to this was the adults and they were moveing farther away from my location to the N-E and getting deeper into the thick stuff...
I packed up and then made the mile walk back to the truck and called it a day... I've had other den areas I have called around at different times of the year and this one was the closest I have ever set up on and had the best results as far as getting them to howl dureing the day... The other dens I called around they never said a peep...
Maybe I should of had a decoy dog along..LOL
I gave this den area some time to rest then came back in from a different direction and went through the whole process of calling them, I got a vocal response from the adults that were over 500 yds. from the den and nothing from the pups.. Turned into another dry stand...
Came back to the same area in late Oct. and tried calling them again and nothing this time...
We finally got a little snow so I went back to the den area looking for tracks and trails so I could set a few traps, there was'nt a track to be found but I set a few traps anyway and never did see any tracks dureing my trap checks...
I came back one night to see if I could get them to answer my locate howls. Nothing around the den area but I did find them, and they were located roughly 3-4 miles down the drainage from the den area. The adults and a single pup are still in this area and its been roughly 7 month's and the remaining pups are up on the high ground to the south and west of the den area about 3 miles away.... I was told by the member here that when I tried to call them the results wouldbe one of two things, they would come in to the caller or they would play chicken shit and move away.. Well thats what I got here just abunch of chickens...LOL
I have called in some females early in the spring just before they dropped there pups and had to use a series of prey distress along with coyote vocals and then back to prey distress sounds.. It took them a long time before they would decide to committ but once they made up there mind they came pretty fast.. I have a few on vid. or just pic.s from the camera as they came in.... Only reason I called these in at that time of year as I was doing a little research to find out how many pups my coyotes have..
I've done some calling in S.D around july and August and found most of the coyotes still come into the call with just basic sounds....
Two different areas, two different games.....
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 03, 2012 12:06 PM
Koko I don't hunt or call coyotes to be cool or watch a coyote do cool things when the bullet smacks them. I never looked at it that way and still don't.. That sorta stuff puts a bad taste in my mouth just like useing a shotty does.
I hunt and call them because I'm getting good at it and thats what I enjoy the most along with a nice fur check if the prices are up...
I had a mini-14 once and if I remember correctly I got rid of it just a few months after I got it and I had to pay someone to take it..
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 03, 2012 01:50 PM
Out this way,you'd be missing out on quite a few coyotes if you didn't pack a shotgun. Sure it can be a pain in the ass packing both, but it sure has paid off for me taking both a shotgun and a rifle.
And I haven't had a problem selling the fur with a shotgunned coyote, one of the highest priced coyote furs I sold this year was shot with a shotgun,at about 20 yards..
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 03, 2012, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1635 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 03, 2012 03:02 PM
Okay, I'm not selling it. I don't dispute TA's opinion, but I don't really understand it? It's not like I'm spraying with a Mini14 or something like that? (sorry koko, couldn't resist)
I have always felt there was a place for a shotgun on stand. But, they are a pain to carry, I am very familiar with that!
Good hunting. LB
PS I showed my new shottie setup to a feller not long ago and the first thing he did was get down on the stock like he was shooting pigeons. Then he said he couldn't see through it or use it. Well, you have to make some allowances for the fact that the EOtech is mounted so much above the bore, something like an inch and a half? It is impossible to hug the stock and yet see through the holograph sight. That doesn't mean it won't work.
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31509 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
|
posted March 03, 2012 03:46 PM
Mr. Clueless do you base your sounds that you choose on the WT names or what they sound like to you? Trick question, be careful how you respond.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
|
posted March 03, 2012 03:56 PM
Leonard, I didn't find fault in having an Aimpoint rail mounted on my Benelli. If anything, the height allowed me to keep my face off the comb. Naturally, my shoulder took more of the 3.5" recoil, but least I wasn't gettin' punched in the cheek at the same time. And the parallax free design of the Aimpoint meant that the 4moa dot was spot on, regardless of cheekweld. Granted, that 'head up' shooting style doesn't fall into favor with naturally shouldering, cheeking up & looking down the rail, but it works good enough on turkeys where I'm more apt to be aiming than pointing the gun anyway. And it should prolly work OK on moving coyotes, too. Besides, it ain't like they're friggin' doves or buffleheads!!!
That all said, I've since poured myself a full glass of the Burris Speed Bead 'kool-aid' and have one on order. With Cal speaking so highly of that setup & Jimzy diggin' his too, I figgered "why the heck not?"
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
|
posted March 03, 2012 03:59 PM
a shotgun is a plus and by leaving in the truck it has cost me coyotes on some stands, when I have it and working dens it is a great tool.
A guy carrying both even the wide open west will lay more coyotes down than one that just packs a rifle.
--------------------
This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
|
posted March 03, 2012 04:16 PM
One perfect example of a good shot gun stand for me was this year in Nevada( November).We had just located a little group of coyotes( we had howled from the truck) they sounded close so we slipped over a little hill toward them. Sat down and howled. A couple minutes later we used the coyote pup distress. It wasn't a minute and we had 3 coyotes headed our way at mach 4. We just sat back and let em come no whoop, no bark, nothing. When the first two were in shot gun range I shot the first one at about 20 yards,and the 2nd at about 40-45 yards.The third ran off to around 200 yards and stopped and my brother shot him with his .22-250 .Definitely makes a believer out of ya. And like CW said there have been many times I've kicked myself for leaving the shotgun in the truck...
Edit to add: No speed bead on mine.Just a plain ol' Remington wingmaster vent rib 870 with a full choke tube 26" barrel( I got when I turned 12 years old) and Dead Coyote T shot.
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 03, 2012, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1635 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
|
posted March 03, 2012 04:53 PM
There is no way that I would even consider carrying both shotgun and rifle when calling alone like I do. When calling with a pardoner, there were many times when one of us packed a shotgun and the other one a rifle. I don't try to pull coyotes in by calling with wind in my face anymore either.
--------------------
If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
|
posted March 03, 2012 07:32 PM
I tend to agree with Cronk, but there are times that call for both. My partner used to carry a Valmet in 12 gauge and 308 which he used with the .224 sabots, forget what they were called?
It is especially difficult, shotgun, rifle, stool and CS24L! But sometimes it is better to bear the load rather than be cussing under your breath, the rest of the morning.
Good hunting. LB
--------------------
EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31509 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
|
posted March 03, 2012 07:36 PM
I agree in some parts of the country or in heavey cover a shotgun has its place, its just that I don't call in any of those places so I don't need the shotgun.. I've called in doubles and thriples and took them with the rifle so why would I want to drag a shotgun along.. Like said before if I let the coyotes get to close I could wind up missing all of them so I just take them with the rifle at a range I feel comfortable with and make sure the area I'm calling in gives me a little room to work...
Chad I'm not worried about the fur on a shotguned coyote, I'm more worried about the coyote takeing a full charge of shot and running off never to be seen again.. Yes they can kill coyotes and so can a 17 HMR or a 223 centerfire, its just none of the ones mentioned are very reliable in the areas I call or hunt..
Leonard for your shotgun it may help to have and extended cheek comb which canbe added to your present stock or a stock with it already built in.. Makes it a little easier to get your eye lined up with the scope or halo site..
Most of the die hards here that use a shotgun/scope on deer have a raised comb on the stock. Just makes life a little easier is all...
Wookie as far as nameing coyote vocals its just a name to make them easier to keep track of, I'm sure if someone wanted they could just give them a number instead.. No one really knows what the sounds mean but you use them enough you will know which ones to use and when...
Edit to add::
Rich when you call cross wind you already gave the coyotes an advantage, they are already half way to your downwind before they get into range..
Here is a little tid-bit for you.. Keep placeing your call out and away from you but keep the sound cone into the wind rather than cross wind this may help you get the coyotes you are missing..
[ March 03, 2012, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
--------------------
What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5103 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
