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Author
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Topic: Coyotes w the new can..
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 19, 2014 12:13 PM
I would describe the sound as a clap with cupped hands. To me, it's a unique sound and unmistakable when assessing whether or not the animal is hit and is out there, dead. The sound has been the deciding fact when searching for a down animal. Rocks and dirt and tree limbs either make an ambiguous sound or maybe no sound that filters back to the ear. But that "hollow pumpkin sound" is irrefutable proof, all you have to do is find him.
Also, the sound does not mean a cripple, it means BANG/FLOP.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS distance to the target plays a part. If it's too close, hard to distinguish. If too far, maybe the wind currents cause a problem, especially with my bad hearing!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted December 19, 2014 12:34 PM
I haven't shot many at all with mine, but a 75Amax provides for quite an audible "thawump".
Consider these #s, .224 caliber:
55gr @ 4000fps. Impact velocity @ 200yds is ~3140fps.
75gr @ 3600fps. Impact velocity @ 200yds is ~3100fps.
Naturally, more bullet mass translates to higher retained energy on target. And the startling disparity in velocity loss again shows how a bullet's high b.c. is the gift that keeps on giving...
Again, this is not an apples to apples cartridge comparison, as the .22-243AI is a much larger case.
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Melvis
PAKMAN
Member # 4518
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posted December 19, 2014 02:51 PM
so ive been try to justify the AI improvement to my 22-250 everybody says just do it i wont regret it but accodring to balistics calculators ive used with 55 grn bullet i use i would gain 100 fps (3722 to 3635)and loose 1 inch of drop (-18.4 to -19.6) at 400 yds.
i guess im not seeing the huge plus? somebody please knock the sense into me
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Rem 788 22-250, Rem 700 7mm, Bowtech Prodigy
G-FORCE OUTDOORS Pro Staff
Posts: 5 | From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2014
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 19, 2014 03:12 PM
If you don't see it, don't do it.
First of all, me personally have never advocated punching a factory barrel. As you said, you would lose an inch, which is not such a big deal, but it is kinda swimming upstream, for the cost involved.
Second, if you are satisfied with the performance you are getting, terminally and accuracy wise, then <shrug>
By the time you factor gunsmith fees, assuming you have him do the accuracy work, the cost of a premium barrel is a significant part, but just part.
So when you crunch the numbers, you may see a significant increase in performance, but maybe not? Every barrel is different, nobody is going to guarantee a certain improvement in velocity...but that's the way to bet.
You still get increased serviceability from your brass and never need to trim necks. I routinely get ten+ reloading from an Ackley chamber, and I load moderately hot, short of flat primers.
There are probably other reasons, if you have a positive attitude, but if you are skeptical, you are probably better off using what you got.
OH BTW Welcome to the New HuntmastersBBS.com. Glad to have you on board.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 19, 2014 03:25 PM
Greetings Melvis.
Where-abouts in Washington are you from; The Wet-Side or the Western-Idaho side ??
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(I lived in Oly for a while)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7595 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 19, 2014 03:26 PM
I have been in love with the Ackley cases since I fired my first 25-06AI. They just look mean and if I'm gonna have a barrel put on, it's gonna have an AI chamber.
Some chamberings do better than others and to me, the 22-250 just begs to be improved. I have a new 223AI that should be close to my old 22-250 load if I ever get around to shooting it.
100fps probably ain't worth it if it shoots good now but once it wears out, a new barrel with an Ackley chamber might surprise you. It did me.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 19, 2014 03:27 PM
quote:
I haven't shot many at all with mine, but a 75Amax provides for quite an audible "thawump".
Consider these #s, .224 caliber:
55gr @ 4000fps. Impact velocity @ 200yds is ~3140fps.
75gr @ 3600fps. Impact velocity @ 200yds is ~3100fps.
Naturally, more bullet mass translates to higher retained energy on target. And the startling disparity in velocity loss again shows how a bullet's high b.c. is the gift that keeps on giving...
Again, this is not an apples to apples cartridge comparison, as the .22-243AI is a much larger case. (knockem)
what follows is why "this guy" manages to piss people off. I apologize, the Devil made me do it. (via email)
okay, now I lost it; BRB
Quote he who shall not be named:
Fred is suffering from BC of the brain from watching to many sniper movies.. LOL (even does the little finger thingy with his trigger finger)LOL
Sure B.C. has its merits if your a target shooter but does very little in the coyote hunting world and a great B.C. bullet is just wasted on 300-500 yds coyotes. He either hunts at home or down with Kelly and neither places allows a hunter much for long distance shots and what shots they get can be made with a lesser B.C. bullet.. Oh but you have all that energy that a heavier bullet can provide over a lighter bullet, you think 50 pounds will make that much difference. Fred proved when he shot and crippled that long distance deer energy don't mean squat on a bad hit.. LOL Out to 800 yards a med. weight bullet with less B.C. will work just as good.. Plenty of dead coyotes that have proved it.. For anything over 700 yds. you just need to find a bullet that will travel straight at that distance and be reliable and also at that distance you still need to dial in all the dope, so what's the difference if you turn the dial 2 minutes or 3 minutes... I think I'll go watch the movie shooter again, maybe I missed something..LOL
damn! I didn't ask if I could quote him. GULP!
[ December 19, 2014, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted December 19, 2014 05:09 PM
Well, there's a discussion killer.
Posts: 940 | From: AZ | Registered: Oct 2010
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 19, 2014 05:17 PM
I am too lazy right now to look up the ballistics. But I wonder how much, say 10-15 mph full value crosswind will blow off a lower BC bullet at 300-500 yards? Would it be enough to miss a coyote facing you straight on?
Those new tipped bullets from Sierra should be fun to play with. I had a 223 Imp put together with a 1-8 twist to shoot the 75 Amax's. It is fun dinging steel out at 600. That is the furthest our range goes. I may punch it out to a 22-250 for more fun.
Hey, whatever trips your trigger. If it isn't illegal or doesn't hurt some innocent people, I say go out and enjoy whatever you can afford.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lone Howl
Free Trial Platinum Member & part-time language police
Member # 29
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posted December 19, 2014 05:35 PM
Leonard, forgive me, but...you seriously, and I mean seriously...need a new penpal.
Mark
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When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
Posts: 2083 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 19, 2014 05:48 PM
I know, I know!
But, pay no attention to Jimbo, he ain't moderating over here.
Anybody else want to pound on my ass, go ahead.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted December 19, 2014 06:04 PM
Melvis,
Here's my take. If one has a good shooting 22/250 and one is happy with the results. If it ain't broke don't fix it..
On the other hand. If a guy had a shot out barrel, or is building a semi custom or full blown custom rifle. What the hell ? Might as well go Ackley.
I mean, why not ? My comments are from a guy who has never owned an Ackley. But, that's what, I'm thinking if I'm ever in that situation.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Melvis
PAKMAN
Member # 4518
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posted December 19, 2014 06:44 PM
So here's my thought I shoot a 788 22-250 shoots .75 in groups at 100 without fine tuning the load to the gun. Lots of life left in barrell. When barrel does go it will be AI
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Rem 788 22-250, Rem 700 7mm, Bowtech Prodigy
G-FORCE OUTDOORS Pro Staff
Posts: 5 | From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2014
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 19, 2014 07:05 PM
Maybe i'm missing something here. But how do you figure you're only gaining 100 fps with the 22-250AI over a standard 22-250? I think you'll gain more like 300 fps over the standard 22-250. I know Berger lists the 60 grain bullet at about 3500 fps in the Standard and I'm shooting them 3800 fps and they are not hot loads.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvis
PAKMAN
Member # 4518
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posted December 19, 2014 07:08 PM
Those are the numbers out if the nosler reloading book. Somebody with experience could chime in because I haven't seen it first hand just know what the books says and some of the other post that say 150-200
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Rem 788 22-250, Rem 700 7mm, Bowtech Prodigy
G-FORCE OUTDOORS Pro Staff
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 19, 2014 07:34 PM
I've got that same book and those numbers are extremely conservative. What I've seen is the Ackley likes to run near max case capacity for better accurracy. Seems like the Nosler manual has it running about 70-75% capacity. My Berger manual has most of the loads in the 90-95% range. And that's where I'm shooting them.
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvis
PAKMAN
Member # 4518
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posted December 19, 2014 07:47 PM
So what are you getting?
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Rem 788 22-250, Rem 700 7mm, Bowtech Prodigy
G-FORCE OUTDOORS Pro Staff
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 19, 2014 08:01 PM
3800 fps with the 60 grain Bergers . And I think you could get 3900-4000fps with the 55's. I was actually fireforming with the 55's at about a grain or so over standard .22-250 max. And they were damn near as accurate as my Ackley loads. The fireforming loads were probably running about 3700+ fps .
[ December 19, 2014, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1629 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Melvis
PAKMAN
Member # 4518
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posted December 19, 2014 08:04 PM
Well at the rate I'm going killing yotes I'll be putting a new barrel on pretty soon so AI it will be
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Rem 788 22-250, Rem 700 7mm, Bowtech Prodigy
G-FORCE OUTDOORS Pro Staff
Posts: 5 | From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2014
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 20, 2014 09:12 AM
Umm, what is the consensus about an Ackley chamber in a 788? That's a totally different animal, although it gets rave reviews about accuracy, in "stock" configurations.
Initial reaction: shoot it until you can't live with the accuracy any longer...then sell it.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted December 20, 2014 11:02 AM
I'm with Leonard.
I offered my advice from a generic perspective, if you will. I have a Ruger M77 tang safety, shoots great 22" barrel a pleasure to handle in the field.
When it's gone, it's gone. I like it the way it is @ in all honesty can't imagine making it something it's not. Built in 1981 it's kind of a classic in my mind.
If my mind was made up for a 22/250 Ackley. I'd go off a 700 action. If, I already had one, for sure, I'd make it a Ackley when shot out.
Don't get me wrong. I love old Rugers and the same might apply to a 788. They are what they are in my opinion.
Good luck !!
[ December 20, 2014, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 20, 2014 11:34 AM
I have a very old Ruger in 220Swift, (first year of manufacture)
that I could get rid of, since it's seen the best accuracy days, but it's still good enough for minute of coyote. It ain't a Remington but I actually prefer the Mauser type action, in a hunting rifle.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted December 20, 2014 03:45 PM
I've built 2 Kimbers (Mauser/Win type action but round receiver) and 2 700's. The Kimbers cost $50 more to cut the extractor cutout but I see no reason not to do a 788 or Ruger if that's what you already have. The 788's shot well and could benefit from a good barrel and the Rugers were plagued with some bad barrels but a decent action. If you have one that shoots good now, a better barrel will only help.
700's are just easier to work with, not necasserilly better.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 20, 2014 06:33 PM
Lotta peeps would argue that one, Tom. Newer ones, stainless actions, Model 7...maybe yes, maybe no? But the way Ruger action screws are, I don't think it helps guilt edge accuracy, never seen one at a benchers match? But I have seen the occasional Savage and lots of accurized Remington 700's but mostly custom actions.
Anyway, the side rails on any of the Mauser copies, Win. Mod 70, Ruger77, Springfield '03 even a Sako; the charge is they are a bit too springy for accuracy bedding.
However, I like Mausers and the Ruger is as good as any and better than most. It's just that the action screws bug the hell out of me. Not that it doesn't seem logical, I dunno?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31500 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted December 21, 2014 11:26 AM
This build is going to happen.. Found a deal on a 22-250 AI 26" mcgowen barrel in 1:12 .. Going to go on the savage platform..
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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