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Author
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Topic: Powder Measure
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted February 08, 2015 09:57 AM
Just curious as what ya'll are using ?
I think Tom mentioned throwing charges in one of these threads ? looks like you can get metering inserts and such.
I've never thrown charges, thinkin' it might be about time ?
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted February 08, 2015 01:11 PM
I used a Redding powder measure for a whole lot of years until a friend told me I should look at a RCBS ChargeMaster 1500. Meters accurately even with coarse powders like IMR 4831. I can recommend it.
I always threw the charge a little under and then trickled the powder to the desired charge. The RCBS does the trickling for you making it fast and accurate.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted February 08, 2015 01:50 PM
Dave, I'm not trying to avoid your question but... depending on what you've accumulated in reloading tools and your comfort level, if I was starting all over from scratch I would call Dillon and buy one of their progressive press's, a quality scale, primer tray, case lube and rock on. A 550 or 650 kit will load anything from handgun ammo to (probably)458win mag. Mounted solid(!) the included powder measure will throw accurate & safe charges every time.
Now back to your question, the Redding powder measure in on sale @ midway dot com. Maybe the price can be beat somewhere else but they list it as being in stock.
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mike
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 08, 2015 02:04 PM
You might be thinking of charge bars used for shot shell reloading? There are no "inserts" per se.
The Redding is a real good measure.
Here's the deal. If you throw charges, (in a powder measure) and you use spherical powders, that might be all you will ever need, as far as the accuracy required for hunting predators.
You will need a scale anyway, whether you do as Moe indicated and throw a charge slightly under your target weight and then trickle the last few tenths of a grain by hand. What I hear about the chargemaster is it's very slow.
If you are as anal as I am, and you get in the habit of weighing every charge, some say it's unnecessary and others disagree. Then, when you get back in the F class competition, 1000 yard targets, then t"hey say" you need a Prometheus because a tenth of a grain accuracy isn't good enough.
Whatever. I weigh, but within a tenth of a grain is GOOD ENOUGH FOR THIS KID.
There are a few very expensive powder measures intended for benchrest, Harrell and I think Sinclair makes a precision metering powder measure. I don't need that kind of accuracy, but if I had Fred's, or Tom's money, I'd get one. (just kidding!)
I think the Redding is model 3R?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted February 08, 2015 03:34 PM
When I'm reloading I get in a rhythm and lose no time with the Chargemaster. I always check the first few loads with the scale and once I see it's throwing right I just move along. I've heard there's way to speed it up but I haven't found that necessary.
It may seem slower because instead of dinking with trickling you're waiting on the charger to do the job. I start the charger and ready the next case. No time lost. I'm a stickler for accuracy.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 08, 2015 05:20 PM
I thought the Chargemaster was the ticket for a few years but I was always waiting for it to trickle that last bit of powder.
I bought a micrometer type head for an RCBS thrower and found it weighs out pretty even charges provided you are consistant in raising the lever. I'm pretty sure I've never gotten over 2/10's difference. I figure if the progressive presses can throw accurate charges, why do I need to wait on the Chargemaster?
I'm sure there are better options but this one works for me and I still shoot near max loads with no change in accuracy.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 08, 2015 05:22 PM
And another thing, I write down the setting for each load and next time I just dial right to it, throw 10 charges and weigh each one then start filling cases.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted February 08, 2015 05:42 PM
Ya know, I started reloading 11-12 years ago now. I was unsure as to what measure to buy and never got around to getting one.
I bought the Lee spoons and found I can get pretty darn close with them and trickle the rest of the way. Used a Hornady balance beam scale and bought a RCBS rangemaster 750 two years ago, mostly because I can read the digital readout, without wearing readers.
I think, I meant to say micrometer body or something. Looks like the Redding 3BR comes with that. I wasn't sure what all that meant exactly.
For some reason the Redding was in my mind, and you guys say good things about them.
(edit) had to walk away Tom posted while I was gone. Interesting.
[ February 08, 2015, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 08, 2015 06:25 PM
I'm in the habit of double knocking the handle on the powder measure, up and down. As I said, some powders meter better than others, especially spherical, so if you dislike weighing your charges, find a ball powder in your burn rate.
Of course, all this is relative. Talking high power rifle cartridges is one thing. Practice loads for your 45 is something else. It would be a colossal waste of time to scale 8 grains of Herco for 500 loads. Even the scoop makes sense in that scenario.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 08, 2015 07:45 PM
I load RL22 in my 243AI elephant gun, RL19,17 and 15, TAC, Unique, Herco, H414 and a few others in my mouse guns. Some don't work as easy but they all work.
I guess a Chargemaster is a good thing to have but I prefer to throw em, no law against having both.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted February 09, 2015 03:07 AM
I use the rcbs it works well with ball powders hence I try to find loads that work well with benchmark if I can. It sometimes hangs up with stick powders. I always under measure and trickle with a Redding trickler and weigh every charge on a Lyman digital. One neat trick I use if I over pour is to use the sticky side of a 'post it' note to remove powder and put it cleanly and controllably back in the hopper or trickler.
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 09, 2015 04:13 AM
I don't weigh my charges, I throw them.
My measures are the stupid expensive pretty kind. But they aren't any more accurate than a Redding. Just get one with micrometer style clicks so you can go back to the same charge when needed.
Oh, and don't do the old handle knock thing Leonard talks about. That's how I was taught to do it, but I was taught wrong. You'll get more consistent throws with a nice steady, even movement.
Knocks required if your powder is bridging though...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted February 09, 2015 07:12 AM
quote:
I used a Redding powder measure for a whole lot of years until a friend told me I should look at a RCBS ChargeMaster 1500. Meters accurately even with coarse powders like IMR 4831. I can recommend it.
I have that set-up too. When I started reloading, I was using a beam scale. Weighed every charge. Talk about slow.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2015 08:38 AM
Many differences of opinion, which is fine. Us old dogs develop habits and they are like a curse. Some of the things I do are so ingrained but they keep me from making a mistake. Little things, like a visual inspection looking down the necks of every case before moving on to bullet seating. I can't stress how important that is. Little things, like moving the funnel in the exact same method/manor, to prevent a double dump. This might be a mystery to some, but for others that have been there, they will understand. Nothing is as aggravating as a double dump.
I probably go through three or four passes on processing brass than other people, doing minor, and probably insignificant things, but it makes me feel good. Besides that, I like the tactile feel of working with brass cases, good therapy. I can zone out.
Some won't know what the hell I'm talking about? For them, get a progressive. lol
My double tap's wrong? OK, I will try and remember that. Just remember this, when all is said and done. It makes no difference, if you have an accurate barrel. And, if you don't, it don't matter either. It's all MOJO.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 09, 2015 08:58 AM
Leonard, you'll get more consistent dumps without the knock. Trust me.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2015 09:18 AM
Dave, Dave.
Let me 'splain you.
It don't matter, when you are trickling. One, two, or 2.5 turns of the trickler. I am an inveterate "weigher", I don't throw charges, unless it's for pistol. In that case, you are correct, but inconsistent powder charges is not my problem in pistol, it's my shooting ability.
The question will never be answered, thrown charges, (volume) or weighing every charge. You must do what you believe in. Right or wrong; I might add. My best days may be behind me, so I just strive for uniformity by way of consistency of action.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted February 09, 2015 10:37 AM
Lee Perfect Powder measure, for now...then on to my RCBS 5-0-5, and trickle in the right amount to balance.
I have an RCBS Chargemaster combo in the box when I get my reloading room set up like I want.
For many years, I have used the Lee powder dippers and an RCBS trickler. Worked very well for me!
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 09, 2015 10:46 AM
Leonard, whatever works, works. And you're right, tricking, it makes no difference anyway.
I dump straight into the case. With an occasional exception, the usual suspects.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2015 11:37 AM
Yeah, I know. I do that too, you know, for a machine gun that will never appreciate precision handloading anyway.
I have an old buddy that gets pretty emotional about powder measures, he is a part time benchrester. That's the only way I can be sure he actually CAN shoot because "on game" the guy is a terrible choker.
He is always jumping my ass about how "unnecessary" it is to actually weigh charges. Notice he doesn't say; Man, it will hurt accuracy". Just, that thrown charges are just as good. Well, I get confidence from weighing my charge, not wondering if my baffle is effective, or bridging with IMR?
If I were loading on a bench at the range, like he does, just about any scale is a pain in the ass, so it's understandable. That does not mean he should go on a crusade and stamp out scaling whenever and where ever he sees it. Speaks with authority, using a $500 powder measure, which I can totally do without.
I'm only casual on the bench but I don't embarrass myself; him with his custom actions, etc. In the field, I can hardly keep from slapping this expert target shooter when he muffs another easy chip shot! I blame his inaccurate "thrown charges". lol And, he thinks I am remarkable, what I can do without range practice every friggin' week. Single, this guy doesn't have a life away from accuracy rifles. So, there it is, divergent points of view. And, the beat goes on.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted February 09, 2015 01:13 PM
I throw with a Belding & Mull.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2015 05:29 PM
AND?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 09, 2015 06:00 PM
I've been reloading for 45 years. Most of those early years I was poor so the tools were simple as in a $20 Lee loader. About 20-30 years ago I got fancier. As far as powder throwers I've used two types. My first powder thrower is a RCBS. I have two or three of these. One is the older model with a metal drop tube. The other one or two have plastic drop tubes. Other than that they work the same. They both work OK for most loads IMHO.
The other powder thrower is the Dillon. They have an old style and a new style. I have a lot of both. The newer style snaps back into the open position and the old style moves to the open position smoothly. I ended up buying a lot of them because once I had a charge worked out and I didn't want to move the adjustment. The dillon is designed to work with their reloaders and isn't designed to work as a stand alone powder thrower. Funny thing, I like the old style dillon better. The one thing I've found out about a progressive is they throw fairly evenly as long as your machine doesn't have a jam. If it jams up and you have to tinker with it, the next throw of powder will be HEAVY. As long as your are moving along consistently with a dillon it throws fairly even. I cannot tell a whole lot of difference between the RCBS and the dillon as far as accuracy.
Leonard mentioned spherical powders. It is true that they usually throw better but I've found that a fine/small extruded powder with a good coat of graphite will throw just as good as a spherical. Benchmark throws as good or better than many spherical powders. I believe this improvement is because it has a good coating of graphite on it and some spherical powders don't have as good of a coating of graphite.
I found some loads are more sensitive to accurate powder charges and a thrower just doesn't cut the mustard. Also a thrower is useless when doing load development. I don't know which is better but way before the RCBS chargemaster was even available, I purchased one of these units: http://www.pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=126
However, it was green and sold by RCBS but made by pact. It was slow so I purchased a second unit with the pact name on it. With two units I get pretty good speed. Accuracy is very good with these two giving me weighed charges for each and every load. I regularly check calibration and they don't wander even under florescent lights.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 09, 2015 06:25 PM
While taking a shower I realized I failed to mention the mother of all powder throwers, the Prometheus. Prometheus was the Greek god that gave man fire. It has been a few decades since I've read about the Prometheus, and it looks like the developer now has a Prometheus II. Many years ago it would set you back about a grand and Prometheus I could easily win a Rube Goldberg award.
Personally I would rather emulate the Greek god Priapus.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2015 07:31 PM
All the F class shooters think they need the Prometheus. My understanding they have a long waiting list, like six months? It uses an optical thingamajig to magnify the scaled part, which near as I can tell, just makes it easier to see the cunt hairs between tenths of a grain. My shooting doesn't need that shit, even if it is guaranteed to improve my accuracy.
One thing about shooters. They are a sucker for damned near anything that comes down the pike. I'm not immune, by any means. But, some of these things are (fill in the blank)
Now, who is this Greek God, Priapus? Did his wings melt?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 10, 2015 06:26 AM
Edited in: I originally typed in for you to google priapus but I decided to give it to you guys so maybe you can learn something about ED. Priapus was the greek god of lust. He had an extra large woody that was always hard. It is from his name that the medical industry came up with the term priapism. At the end of all ED med commercials such as viagra they always say something to the effect: In the event of an erection lasting longer than four hours, seek immediate medical attention. They want you in the ER at the four hour mark because at six hours the corpus carvernosum starts to die due to lack of blood flow. The corpus carvernosum is the smooth muscle tissue that fills with blood when we get excited. You can learn all about it if you google up "utube dr john p. mulhall" and watch all of his utube videos. He also has a book titled "saving your sex life".
The one fun thing about getting prostate cancer is experimenting with all of the ED meds you have access to, and you don't have to pay $15 per pill. I know of good sites that sell quality products if any of you are interested ask leonard for my email address.
Leonard: does the Prometheus II still a Rube Goldberg machine underneath the cover?
[ February 10, 2015, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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