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Author
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Topic: Powder Measure
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 10, 2015 07:16 AM
Priapus;
With a crank like that, he would HAVE TO pry-a-puss !!!
BwaaaaHaaaaHaaaaa...........I crack myself up sometimes.
Ok......I'll go quietly.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 10, 2015 07:33 AM
Black, eh?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 10, 2015 07:45 AM
I know I'm just contrary by nature, but, will simply note that, I can, have and occasionally do work up loads without use of a scale.
Not usually. But, definitely have.
A rifle I just mentioned in another thread, a .22BR, I had put over a thousand rounds through it before I had weighed a single charge. Someone on one of the boards was asking for load info and didn't speak "clicks", nor was "N-135 halfway up the neck" an acceptably precise description of my recipe, for online use?
So I had to weigh my powder charges to be able to tell him what they were in grains. I knew approximately, of course, but, honestly had not ever used a scale one time, even for initial load work, on that rifle?
Most accurate rifle I've ever owned, too, BTW...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 10, 2015 10:28 AM
Oh yeah?
Well, what if I told you that my #1 22-250Ackley, the load was worked up on the bench, at the range, with a powder measure?
Afterwards, at home, I was able to scale that load and discovered that it was 44.0 grains of H414, and has been ever since. 65 grain bullet. But then and now, I weigh the charge.
God, I wasn't going to shit on this thread and mention what, "he who shall not be named" wrote, in an email, but anyway. Referencing DAA and two tenths of a grain accuracy...he noted that two tenths of a grain over, in his 17 would blow primers.
I know all about that, and in the first place, I do not run that close to MAX so that I would risk a blown primer. In fact, most times, my load will be at least a full grain under MAX.
I think that if a man was loading a high performance 17, for instance, he would be wise to scale his charges, IF HE IS RUNNING THAT HOT I guess the point is, a hot load is a problem, for me.
When ambient temperature can swing from below freezing to 50 degrees, or as on the border, much warmer than that, I want a load that is safe, in any condition.
So, in using a powder measure to load cases, what is the concern? Mild loads or high performance? How about case life? Seems like I have heard Dave say, on occasion, that he gets way north of ten reloads from his brass; as I do, BTW.
Apologize for bringing (you know who) into the conversation, but he does have a point about seventeens and running right on the ragged edge. Any way a man avoids problems is good, as long as those problems are avoided.
I know a guy, (well, used to know, he died) that loads a 220Swift so hot, he only gets two reloads because of (usually) split necks. I wouldn't bother to ask him about his velocities but they must be impressive? But, I do know that he weighs his powder. He told me that.
He also killed more coyotes that any man I have ever heard of, consistently, for almost fifty years. I am also sure he won more hunts than anyone in modern history, there will never be another like him. It's hard to stack his accomplishments against a full time predator control man because he always worked as a heavy equipment operator and just hunted weekends, so? In a way, it's too bad he's not more well know than he is, but whatever? What the hell were we talking about, anyway?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 10, 2015 11:40 AM
I never weigh the charges for my .17P, never had a blown primer, not even close. Get long case life.
I can't even imagine a working load only .2 gr. from expecting a blown primer though.
You do hear that fairly often on the internet though, that .17's will put your eye out if you overload them by a couple tenths. It's not how I operate and is a complete non-issue for me. But I guess if a fella wants to go there, he can?
I don't like rifles that are so picky they demand being within .2 gr. just for accuracy purposes. I mostly get rid of barrels like that. That's just from an accuracy/convenience standpoint. But having to operate within .2 gr. for safety? Fuck that...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted February 10, 2015 12:53 PM
I've never worked up charges straight from a powder thrower. I've always weighed the charges but it wouldn't bother me in combinations where the max charge was close to the top. One combination that would work is varget in 5.56mm with a 60 grain bullet or lighter. I've loaded max loads in 223 with the above combination and you spill powder if you attempt it on a dillon it is so full.
I don't like finicky barrels either but I have some classic guns that have them like my DCM M1garand. I need to get it rebuilt someday. Hopefully Phil Arrington will still be around.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 10, 2015 02:01 PM
Dave makes a point about barrels. We never know, some are a distinct disappointment and some are wonderful.
I agree, about the dope we read on the Internet. I am just repeating a common knowledge that two tenths can mean the difference. Do I know it for a fact? Not even. But, like they say, if it is repeated often enough, now it's a fact.
As far as barrels, I suppose it's a Ford/Chevy question? For many years, I have always had very good luck with Hart barrels. I'm just kinda chicken to try others. Yeah, I have a few others, but I don't have one that I think measures up to what I expect from Hart....and, I could be dead wrong!
Because, there obviously are other makers that are just as good or better. I don't buy enough to know the difference, not being a target shooter, my shooting is modest in comparison to those that are regularly banging away at targets. I like to think I'm concerned with accuracy, but realistically, it's minute of coyote, for the most part.
What is important to me is reliability. I want no trouble, in the field. No pierced primers, no constantly checking my zero, no missing. Just reliable ignition and positive terminal performance. The last thing I want is gun problems. Well, actually, the last thing is vehicle problems, I almost always have a spare rifle but no spare vehicle.
Question. Does everybody pack a good, long cleaning rod on a hunt? Just to have it, not to necessarily clean your bore. It's a good idea. Ever stick a bullet in the bore?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted February 10, 2015 03:45 PM
I'm pretty sure I was the one who brought up 2/10's of a grain which is the most my thrower has ever been off.
I'm at least a half a grain under max on all my loads and find max in at least 90 degree weather. And max is where I first start seeing pressure signs. Never popped a primer in my life.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Prune Picker
AR Forum Assistant Moderator-handgun GURU and dispenser of sage advice
Member # 4107
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posted February 11, 2015 06:59 PM
Dave, I can't find the Midway flyer for reference but it was the Redding 3BR on sale for ~ 139.99$. If I remember correctly the sale ends Feb 28
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mike
Posts: 1265 | From: "Oklahomie" | Registered: Mar 2012
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 12, 2015 04:32 AM
I've got a 'souped up' RCBS Uniflow. It has a powder baffle, micrometer drum adjustment and elevated stand.
Also have a 'souped up' Chargemaster. It's been re-programmed and a has the "straw mod" inside the dispensing tube. Lastly, its plugged into a power conditioning strip and I use incandescent lighting over my bench.
I use either one, depending what & how many rounds to load. Both work well enough for me, and I've adopted Dave's opinion regarding sensitivity & volatility of a load. If pressure and/or accuracy rest on the ragged edge of a 0.1-.2 grains window, that ain't a happy place to settle at...
Good Chargemaster re-prog vid & test ...if anyone were interested...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 12, 2015 11:05 AM
quote:
Dave's opinion regarding sensitivity & volatility
That ain't Dave's opinion, exclusively, you know? ( ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: BTW, that seems like a pretty good deal on the 3BR. One thing about that measure. it has a smaller capacity than the other one because that's the target consumer, benchrest people, who use smaller capacity cases. Therefore, if you want to use it on Magnum cases, you might want to use a double throw?
[ February 12, 2015, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DarbinCo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4590
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posted March 10, 2015 09:00 PM
Dave,
I've had several measures thru the years. Redding, RCBS, Harrell's and the measures on my Dillons.
The new production RCBS measures are a piece of shit. The round wheel fit the body so loosely on my last one that powder would get between it and the body and start fouling things up. I sold it wishing I hadn't got rid of the first one I had.
The redding is a pretty good unit, had one of them too.
I purchased a Harrell's from Dave (yes DAA) a few years ago and I use it a bunch. It accurate but probably not a whole lot better than say the redding but quality tools are always a joy to operate and the Harrell's is quality. I really like it.
Like Aznative I do highly prefer the old style Dillon measures. I think the new ones are sloppy loose mess while in operation. I've gone as far to tell them that but it was all in the name of safety. Once again a good tool has had to be redone because some asshole somewhere fucked up and we all need to pay for it. My old ones get way more reps than the new ones do.
I also have that first gen RCBS electronic measure. Man it's been on the bench a while, I can't even remember when I bought it but I do remember spending a bag of shekels on it. I picked up a new Chargemaster unit about a month ago and its parked next to that old dinosaur on the bench now. The new unit is great, its faster and seems to throw real consistent without going over which was a real problem with the older one.
If I were to buy a new thrower today without busting the wallet, I'd probably go with the Redding.
Posts: 16 | From: Western Colorado | Registered: Mar 2015
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 11, 2015 05:26 AM
quote:
Once again a good tool has had to be redone because some asshole somewhere fucked up and we all need to pay for it.
This seems to be a recurring theme? We could spend all day reminiscing, and barely scratch the surface. Like that lapful of hot coffee, was worth how much?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DarbinCo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4590
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posted March 11, 2015 07:10 AM
quote:
This seems to be a recurring theme? We could spend all day reminiscing, and barely scratch the surface. Like that lapful of hot coffee, was worth how much?
Millions right....
I had always gone off of what I heard in the media about that case until I seen this video. Its rather interesting and changed my perspective on it after learning some of the facts. It turned out to be much different than the millions of dollars the media told us that she got.
https://screen.yahoo.com/scalded-coffee-then-news-media-104632481.html
Doesn't change the fact that someone needed Rube Goldberg fail safe devise on a powder measure though... LOL
Posts: 16 | From: Western Colorado | Registered: Mar 2015
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 11, 2015 07:49 AM
WOW! That is quite a revelation. I never heard anything besides the Connie Chung version. Obviously, it's no joke, even to the point where Jane Palley stated that the woman was driving a car. Total bullshit.
The photograph evidence was compelling. I wonder if anybody jacked up the judge over his reducing the judgement? Man, those burns were fierce; and in an area that is as sensitive as it gets.
Thanks for that. Interesting contribution, for sure.
Good Hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DarbinCo
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4590
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posted March 11, 2015 02:18 PM
Yea, it certainly changes the way you think about the case don't it.
Posts: 16 | From: Western Colorado | Registered: Mar 2015
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted March 11, 2015 04:52 PM
Thanks for the comments Darby.
I'll have to check & see if the Redding is off of backorder yet, if I was able to find one locally, I would have bought a few weeks ago when I was in the mood.
I wish you wouldn't have brought up that damn Chargemaster
With this lapse, yeah I've been thinkin' about it.
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 14, 2015 04:02 AM
That's a hell of a nice powder measure for the money!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted March 14, 2015 09:57 AM
That's kinda what I thought LB.
I never really considered them before, because for some reason ? I thought they were like $400 bucks.
I'm curious which one Darby uses ? Maybe that base one is all a guy like me needs?
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted March 14, 2015 10:12 AM
We've come a long way; in the early days when I was using my Lee loader, you know, the one where you utilized a hammer and flat plate, to pound the dies to resize and deprime and seat the bullet?
One could buy plastic scoops of various sizes to throw a particular weight of a given powder. I was a cheap bastard, and used various size pistol cartridges with baling wire twisted around the rim/case body for a handle, and simply filed from the top down, until I reached the level at which it threw the charge I wanted. Musta cost, oh I don't know, maybe two cents....and, the sonofabitch worked fine, I must have pounded out thousands of rounds of shotgun and pistol ammunition.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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