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Author
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Topic: COULD IT HAPPEN HERE?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 08:53 AM
While we have been watching events in Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Yemen, and now Syria, I think it's time to ask the question: would our military fire on citizens protesting, like maybe the Tea Party. Would the Media Spin Doctors attempt to justify calling out the National Guard, fabricating reasons why they are dangerous and need to be crushed as in the Mid East Dictatorships?
I just want to know if another Kent State would happen here? Only this time, involving Conservatives?
Think about it. How far away are the Media and the Democrats from labeling the Tea Party, dangerous and requiring the use of force?
More importantly; would our men in uniform be motivated to obey orders to bomb unruly elements of the citizenry? I can see CBS, NBC and ABC calling for action, but could, (or would) congress stop it?
What say you?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 25, 2011 09:27 AM
What do you call Ruby Ridge or Waco?
Without (or with) getting into a "us vs. them" thing again, it really is... once they label you as a criminal or terrorist, you're fair game.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 10:06 AM
Well, you have a point. One word: Janet Reno. Just like the ideologue, Eric Holder who thinks black on white crime is unworthy of action.
Yes, Ruby Ridge. There should have been an investigation and not a cover up. And, it was a set up, in the first place; hey can you saw the barrel off my shotgun? Same with Waco. The dude drove in to town frequently, in his 'Vet. I guess they needed to climb up on his roof in the middle of the night? Those SOB's knew the cs gas would start fires and lied about it. Both of those adventures were cowboy actions and had George Bush been in charge, he would have been swinging from a rope a long time ago. The Dems have nobody to answer to when shit like that goes down. If anybody should have been swinging from a rope, it's Reno.
So, is the Government infiltrating the Tea Party, but not ACORN?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted March 25, 2011 10:44 AM
Demonize the opposition and then destroy it. That is the usual strategy.
The government can turn on its people if history is to be believed. It can happen here. But, as long as the Second Amendment stays somewhat intact, at least the people can shoot back. Most of the poor bastards in those mid east countries don't have that option.
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 406 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted March 25, 2011 10:49 AM
quote:
I think it's time to ask the question: would our military fire on citizens protesting, like maybe the Tea Party.
Hell yes they will, maybe your asking the wrong question, maybe you should be asking, are you willing to fire back?
Rest assured that WE are the criminals in the minds of many because we support things like the Tea Party and because we own guns and because we don't agree with Obama or we don't want our country over run with illegals and because we dont want to be tolerant of sharia law and because of all the other things that conservatives believe or hold dear.
Check out this link, the media is full of this sort of shit, we just haven't been paying attention.
btw. Janet Napoliano or whatever her F-ing name is just assured the whole world that our border is in fact safer than ever. Now there's a criminal.
Anti immigration gun owners are terrorists
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 11:15 AM
I will tell you one thing, it is very easy to get a negative label. People around here comment on my "tank" parked in the side yard.
Don't get caught wearing anything CAMO, or your neighbors will think that you are some sort of wacko "survivalist".
I am very aware, every time I transport a firearm to my vehicle, or take a firearm out of my vehicle. I wonder if a half a dozen squad cars might show up, asking questions. Call me a drama queen, if you like, but I doubt there is another hunter within blocks, and let's face it, "hunter" is just another term for unstable whacko, in the eyes of many sheeple.
That Oklahoma bombing didn't help, either. Right wing nut job doesn't need definition. It means a conservative that probably owns guns.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted March 25, 2011 11:42 AM
George HW Bush was president in '92 when Ruby Ridge went down.
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted March 25, 2011 11:56 AM
quote:
Don't get caught wearing anything CAMO, or your neighbors will think that you are some sort of wacko "survivalist".
Lb, you need to get out of there quick!!!!
I agree that the real question is... " would you shoot back?". Because, I believe they would shoot first. Maybe not active military, but definatly secret service, atf, or even a group of tactical leos'. And no, I don't believe most teapartiers/conservatives would shoot back. Most in this group still believe in common sence and are hoping that things can be changed by rational means. Besides, most still have too much to loose. When the majority has nothing to loose; the shit will hit the fan.
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 12:21 PM
quote:
George HW Bush was president in '92 when Ruby Ridge went down.
Are you positive? That doesn't seem right. Somebody look it up, I need to see it.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 25, 2011 12:37 PM
I often wear some type of camo. It's usually a hat, but sometimes a sweatshirt too. I guess my wife is used to it, and I can get away with it living in a rural or semi-rural county. Down where my parents live it might raise a few eyebrows. I think I will wear camo tonight out to my friend's wife's bithday just to honor this thread, and because I am in that kind of mood.
Guns outside the house? Yes, sometimes I will have them outside, but I try to keep them out of sight of the neighbors or traffic driving up the street. I think the patrol car in my driveway might allay some people's fears, but I don't want to make problems for the town guys either. They have better things to do than show up at my house on a gun complaint.
Now, to Leonard's original question...no, I don't think it will happen here. At least not on a large scale. Maybe the screwups we have seen in the past could happen again, like Ruby Ridge, but I like to think that we learn from our mistakes. The reason I don't think it will happen on a large scale is because LEO's, military, and even the Feds are made up of people just like us. The cops and military guys I know would not want to fire on innocents. That is simply not something we like to do in our culture. Sure there are bad apples, but the majority know it is illegal to obey an illegal order. Ruby Ridge was a screw up where the rules of engagement were changed. Lon Horichi fired on Mrs. Weaver illegally, although someone high up in the FBI changed the rules of engagement and told him he could do so. But again, that is one incident and a few agents which are a small cross section of our Fed, LEO, and military society.
Also, the troops in Libya may be in fear of retaliation upon themselves or their families if they fail to "follow orders." Libya is a different animal from the US.
As for "Us vs. Them," that doesn't happen until riot troops/police get pelted with rocks, urine, feces, bullets, and whatever else. In that situation the troops can use force to defend themselves, though not haphazardly firing into crowds as was done at Tiananmen Square. Again, you won't see that type of thing here. We are the good 'ole US, remember? Where a militiaman was said to be hiding behind every rock and tree during the Revolutionary War.
Amen.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 25, 2011 12:46 PM
Call it bad luck or just being in the wrong places at the right times but...
I've met Randy Weaver, he seemed like a normal guy to me. I watched his daughters interview with William Shatner and she even forgave the FBI sniper and hated the thought of anyone doing violence in her family's name.
I was at Waco shortly after the firestorm and the Texicans unloading my truck seemed to think the ATF was the villan.
I've been to the OKC memorial, know a few who lost loved ones there and have a cousin who transported Terry Nichols back and forth to the courthouse, said he was a wierd SOB that he'd love to have shot while escaping.
I've also known some pure lunatics who I wouldn't put nothing past. Moral of the story, don't trust anyone, the truth is just a matter of perspective.
As to "will they/we shoot back?" be careful the last time this came up the "invited one" was quick to remind that those coming for your guns are regular guys doing their jobs.
It's a hell of a world we live in ain't it?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 25, 2011 01:11 PM
quote:
As to "will they/we shoot back?" be careful the last time this came up the "invited one" was quick to remind that those coming for your guns are regular guys doing their jobs.
The "invited one" huh? Lol that's a new one on me Tom. I expected some flack from you but not this quick!
Please don't describe my posts out of context. There is an awful lot of explanation and insight that went into my responses to the events of the thread you are referring too. It's not always black and white, my friend.
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted March 25, 2011 01:28 PM
yea LB and when they come in investigate the phone call they got about you and your gun they will look like a bunch of wontabee Rambo's
there was a time when law enforcement officers had a distinguished hat and wear a tie,
now they dress like a Navy seal in there Bdu's , take a look around they look less and less approachable every time you look at one.
I have really never thought about the scenario you talked about but I have been thinking just how military our
Peace Officers are looking.
[ March 26, 2011, 04:07 AM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 01:47 PM
Well, I guess snookie is right, Bush was Pres.?
But, regardless of who was top dog, the situation was a bunch of bullshit over a minor offense. Essentially, Weaver missed a court date and three people were killed.
I think that's what we are talking about. Would L.E. get involved in some serious enforcement over civil insurrection and thus far the answer seems to be, historically, they sure would.
Good hunting. LB
edit: "THE INVITED ONE" Boy, he, (TIO) picked up on the reference a lot quicker than I did. Tom, you just happened to be in several interesting places. Is it luck, or what?
[ March 25, 2011, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 25, 2011 01:54 PM
"Please don't describe my posts out of context."
Feel free to show me where I was wrong.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 25, 2011 02:01 PM
Interesting comment, George. Yes, they have begun looking like combat troops, rather than the local Andy Griffith in Mayberry. Or, Barney Fife, for that matter.
I can remember back when policemen didn't wear body armor or carry a "back up" piece.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted March 25, 2011 03:05 PM
George, That's a damn good post, I agree 100%, they don't look approachable at all or act approachable contrasted against how I remember LEOs when I was a child. Although we would be terribly mistaken to say that they are ALL like that, it's just that the ones that get noticed seem to be like that.
Kinda like after a tornado goes through, who does the media interview, the biggest idiot in town of course.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted March 25, 2011 04:02 PM
Around here if someone is wearing cammy trousers and a jacket, people just think it's his Hillbilly Lea-sure suit.
The police are looking more military all the time, heck they even call us civilians. Not to mention the officers wearing a cluster of stars like Patton or Ole Ike.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 25, 2011 05:37 PM
How did I forget Katrina, the old lady who they disarmed and FEMA. I was once told that it would be the UN blue helmets that would come to take our guns. Mainly because no police or even our military would turn on it's civilians.
Honestly Nick, my response was to CrossJ's question not your reply.
Does anyone know which side of the aluminum foil goes out? And what's the best way to fold these hats, smooth or wrinkled?
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted March 25, 2011 06:03 PM
At what point do people decide it is "war" or it is just normal "law enforcement"?
What act would you have to see before you fired on "police, army, whoever?"
When the black dressed SWAT guys raided your neighbor for what ever reason, what would trigger you to fight?
Carl
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted March 25, 2011 06:07 PM
I find the wrinkled shiney side out works best but stay away from windows.and dont read your mail thats how they find you!
[ March 25, 2011, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted March 25, 2011 06:18 PM
I was having conversation with my friend Fred when he said something that put it into perspective for me. It was about the time I said they can have my guns if they want to try and take them ,he said " it doesnt matter what you do when they come for your guns but what are you willing to do when they come for your neighbors guns. I really had to stop and think about that.
Just what constitutes an assault on the citizenry.Actually its been happening slowly for a long time kind like cooking the frog.We get lazy and complacent and viola weez fucked!
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 25, 2011 08:48 PM
Sorry Leonard, I just caught your edit.
Randy Weaver was at the Tulsa Wannemaker (sp?) gun show along with Bo Gritz(?) a few years and I listened to the both of them, Bo (the army dude who talked him out) was what I deemed as more of a lunatic than Randy.
His daughter was on TV just a few months ago, a very interesting and unexpected view I thought she had.
I went to Waco cause no one else wanted to at the time. It was fresh and the guys sure had their opinions.
OKC, it's 80 miles away from me, around here you're bound to know someone who lost someone. NYC was a tragedy on a larger scale but OKC hit too close to home and was carried out by two of our own. Terry Nichols' trial was held in my hometown.
As for TIO, I was actually posting that before he replied but had to tend to business for a minute or two. Read his response after I posted mine or I'd have included Lon's name instead of sniper. But TIO thinks I'm waiting to jump on his every word and so be it. I didn't want this to turn ugly and remembered you told me to back off a little cause you did invite him here, so "The Invited One" kinda popped out. Didn't figure too many would get my strange humor anyway.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 26, 2011 03:48 AM
Well I did as promised and wore camo out to the bar for my friend's wife's Bday celebration. Funny, one of my buddies comes in and sees my wife and her friends and says, "Oh, I think I underdressed." My wife tells him don't worry about, you are way overdressed compared to Nick. So he comes and finds me in my camo sweatshirt. LOL. Anyways, I wasn't the only guy in the bar wearing camo. I wasn't drinking though.
Tom, I didn't say you were wrong, I said you quoted me out of context.
Back to the subject...I do think Waco and Ruby Ridge were mishandled. From a law enforcement perspective, you have an agency that took charge, which really wasn't experienced in handling incidents such as these. That is my opinion of course. I studied up on Ruby Ridge. Waco...not as much so. Though what I think is sometimes we are better off letting local law enforcement handle the people from their respective areas. The Feebs should come in to assist with their resources, but the local sheriff, or Texas DPS, should have been in charge at Waco. The local LEO's know the people, and know how best to deal with them. Again that's just my opinion from 22 years in law enforcement.
Do I think we will have troops or LE firing into masses of people here in the US? No, I do not, for the reasons stated in my above post.
As far as LE uniforms go...yes, some agencies are going to a more tactical type of uniform. The tactical uniform has its place in law enforcement, but not for the everday street cop. My agency still wears long sleeved wool shirts in summertime, with a tie, just like we did back in 1921 when we started. I will see if I can drum up a pic.
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