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Author
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Topic: I didn't know
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted June 21, 2011 05:35 PM
So what your saying is that I'm not a liar, but they are. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
After spending quite a bit a time with the guys there, I will choose to believe them until proven otherwise. I saw their scopes track reliably and the optics seem decent to me. I have a NightForce also and have looked through and used dozens of them so I do have something to compare to. I have been playing with this Huskemaw Blue Diamond for a few days now and am going to shoot it at the tactical shoot I mentioned. It probably wont fit in with the tactical shooters, but hell, neither will I! I'm shooting a borrowed pistol and don't even have a tactical vest or holster. We are going to use our hunting packs and the rest of our coyote hunting equipment (shooting sticks etc.). So we may be in for a schooling. But if the wind picks up I'm guessing we will be able to hold our own. We play in this stuff every day. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 21, 2011 05:50 PM
Good luck Cal, I'm sure the Huskemaw Blue Diamond will work just fine. It won't hurt though to bring an extra scope along in case, you never know.. As for the pistol just tuck it down the front of you pants, make sure you keep the chamber empty.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 21, 2011 07:19 PM
quote:
So what your saying is that I'm not a liar, but they are.
Yep, pretty much.
Here's two of my NXS scope boxes.
Notice, the NXS Compact box (right) has the MADE IN USA flag on it. As stated, all NXS Compacts are 100% manufactured in the USA, as are the F1 series of FFP scopes.
The full sized NXS box (left) does not have the FLAG, since the the majority of the parts (glass & main tube) are made in Japan.
However, ALL NXS scopes are ASSEMBLED in Orofino, Idaho USA.
QUOTE FROM Nightforce WEBSITE
quote:
NXS RIFLESCOPES:
Technology to improve your shooting.
The philosophy of Nightforce is highly specialized and focused on building the ultimate instrument for the application. Our research and testing has developed new standards in manufacturing and quality control. Every Nightforce scope is assembled at our factory in North Central Idaho. All Nightforce scopes are 100% inspected and certified, passing vigorous testing prior to shipping. Our commitment to ultimate riflescope performance by using cutting edge technology and advanced mechanical designs is unparalleled in the industry. All NXS models share exceptional features, making them the finest riflescopes ever produced.
funny how I can't find a single thing ON Huskemaw's website saying that there scopes are assembled in the USA, let alone AT the Nightforce plant in Idaho?
The scope you have and a Nightforce may share a common factory source for parts, (LOW, Japan) But that is as far as the similarity goes. That they share the SAME parts is a stretch and that they are built "by the same hands" is a LIE.
I could call Nightforce CS & ask if they built Huskemaw scopes at their Idaho factory, but I fear I'd be laughed off the phone.
Bottom line is that you got a line of shit fed to you as an answer to your question, I'm sorry to tell you. I know I'd appreciate someone pointing it out, if it were me. I hope you understand that as my intention?
Have fun & good luck at the match!
[ June 21, 2011, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 21, 2011 08:02 PM
I know a guy who I have to constantly remind, the waitress is working for tips...
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 21, 2011 08:22 PM
Is'nt it possable NF made the scope for the other company on a contract and allowed them to use there name instead..
Like Cabela's scopes for example...
I also know of a guy who had a jap company make up a few scopes to his spec and with his reticle of choice and left the name off of them..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted June 22, 2011 04:30 AM
So I guess I'm lost as to why the Nightforce scopes made overseas can't be made by the same hands that make Huskemaw? As you clearly pointed out, not all Nightforce is made in the USA.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 22, 2011 04:52 AM
I saposse anything is possable, Tim.
However, the business strategy of a company intentionally outsourcing it's own labor force and/or availing it's parts contractors to help build a product intended to directly compete with their own product line at a given price point is beyond me?
Why don't you call NF & ask, then report back?
(208)476-9814
Make sure to tell 'em you they are talking to "Mr. Coyote 2011", so they show the proper respect with their response...
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 22, 2011 05:21 AM
That's the obscure part, Mr. Cal.
As I understand it, regulatory import/trade laws are very strict as what can be legitimately labeled "Made in the USA". I believe someone eluded to that above?
The NXS Compact & F1 line are labeled "Made in the USA", since the majority of the parts used & the assembly of those scopes are in the USA.
The NXS line of SFP scope which are labeled "Made in Japan" because a certain percentage of their parts (glass, main tube, whatever) are manufactured IN Japan (as stated, prolly at L.O.W. factory).
Here's the important part.
Those imported parts are just that, parts. NF stills assembles those parts into a finished product AT the NF factory in Idaho, by US workers.
That is why the NF website states that: All NXS scopes are assembled in the USA. However, assembly alone does not legally warrant the "Made in the USA" logo. See the difference?
As for the Huskemaw, it is entirely possible that the parts for them also come from that same factory (L.O.W.) in Japan. BUT (and a big but), apparently, the Huskemaw scopes are also ASSEMBLED somewhere in Asia. Who knows where?
That is where the "same hands" comment falls short.
It safe to assume that NF would have some sort of contractual exclusivity regarding the parts manufactured for the NXS line. Therefore, although the parts for both scopes may originate from the same factory, they are mutually exclusive to each product, and unlikely to be of the same quality.
Furthermore, the Huskemaw is assembled "somewhere", where all NXS scopes are assembled in the USA.
Ask the Huskemaw guys where the Huskemaw factory is physically located & report back what they tell you.
From what I know, there is no such dedicated Huskemaw 'factory', since their assembly is also outsourced.
The parts are stamped with the country of manufacture, so Huskemaws also say "Made in Japan", but they could be assembled ANYWHERE.
China, Phillippines, who knows? But it sure as heck ain't Idaho!
Hope that clarifies?
[ June 22, 2011, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 22, 2011 07:58 AM
At this point, who cares? If NF is ASSEMBLED in the USA it means they import their parts from somewhere else. Could be Canada, Mexico or Asia.
If they are MADE IN THE USA, then 75% or more of the parts are made, manufactured and assembled in the USA.
BUT, they could be made manufactured and assembled by Turkish, Chinese and Bolivian immigrants at their facility here in the USA. Would that make them worse?
If it works use it, if it doesn't, use it for an anchor.
Huskemaw said their scopes were made by the same hands as the NF scopes, could be NF's lower priced scopes. There was no mention that the same parts were used? So it's a selling point for them. It's not misleading if used in that context.
Companies overseas are not beholden to one companies product. I could send MY specs to these companies and have a CHRIS S scope made. The quality would be whatever I spec'd it out to be.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 22, 2011 09:33 AM
You're exactly right, smithereens.
I really don't care what gear anyone else chooses. If it works, rock on! I'm no more brand loyal to one company, than another. And I'm not trying to sell anyone anything, so my opinion means nothing...
Point is, I opened my big mouth & called bullshit on what Mr. Cal heard, therefore felt obligated to define the grounds I called bullshit on. Hence, my drivel...
To me, "same hands" = scope assembly.
NF = USA
Huskemaw = ???
Like you said, who gives a shit?
Well, if I'm dropping $1200-$3K on a stinkin' riflescope, I do.
If you were to drop big bucks on a custom rifle build, wouldn't you take an interest in your gunsmith & his skill level?
Or would you blindly pay top dollar to "Joe the gun plumber" you met at the range, cause he seemed like a nice local guy? I bet he IS a nice guy, but I wanna see his work before I open my wallet.
Would the fact that you gave him the same custom barrel, action & stock that high end 'smiths use somehow negate the fact that this guy may be using sloppy tooling & lack the same skill set?
What makes a high end scope build any different?
Getting too deep into semantics, so I'll stop now.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 22, 2011 10:07 AM
Okay Mr shit stirrer, (joke) what about my U.S. Optics scope. From what I could see, and I was in their shop; it looks like a 100% American effort. They have some conventional Bridgeports and I saw at least one lathe and a couple CNC machines.
The "same hands" comment seems kinda hard to pin down as to what it means? There are quality issues and just I.D. issues, I would want to know if they have a trained monkey screwing parts together.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted June 22, 2011 10:40 AM
Whew; reading this stuff, makes me feel like the kid who shows up at a social function wearing 10 dollar hush puppies, and everyone else has on hundred dollar wingtip oxfords:)
Im surprised Ive ever been able to kill a damned coyote using the crap glass I hang on my predator rifles:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 22, 2011 11:34 AM
Leonard, US Optics has a Military contract, EVERYTHING has to be made in the USA.
Edit: not sure about the glass? That everything up there^ should be lowercase
I use Nikon scopes and binocs. They've always worked fine for me.
[ June 22, 2011, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 22, 2011 01:06 PM
Shit stirrer here, only cause you asked.
US Optics builds their scopes in house at the location you visited. Glass is Schott, but ground & coated in house...
If you drove to Idaho, pretty sure you could drop in & visit the Nightforce plant, too.
I don't know where the heck you'd have to go to see a Huskemaw scope assembled, but darn sure you'd need a plane ticket & passport...
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 22, 2011 01:13 PM
Smithers, Leupold has and has had several military contracts.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 22, 2011 01:23 PM
Let's remember this,
"Many know Leupold has been in business for over 100 years, what people may not know is the factory in Oregon employs over 700 workers. That is huge for any company, but how this relates to the scope business, in an 8 week period alone, Leupold builds more scopes than Zeiss, Swarovski, Schmidt & Bender, Kahles and Meopta combined. So what these other companies do in an year, Leupold does in 8 weeks."
and this,
"So the big question, are things outsourced... of course there are. As it was presented and makes perfect sense, small things like screws, and what not needed to build the scope, that they are not making in house and it is much cheaper to buy 5 million screws from someone who does that than to machine them here. You expect these things. In terms of glass, well remember that 8 week period, Leupold averages about 1600 scopes built over 3 shifts, per day. Nobody in the US can produce enough glass for them, and Leupold doesn't make glass. They make and assemble their own erectors, reticles, and fixtures to hold the glass in place, but the lenses come from other sources who can supply that much glass."
Yet they still have 4 military contracts running.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 22, 2011 01:27 PM
Tom, any scopes made for military use by Leupold were all made here. It's the law I'm sure civilian scopes could be made anywhere in the world.
Not to say that US optics may not come out with a scope made somewhere else at some point. You'll know they have when you see one on my rifle, cause it'll be cheaper than the 3 billion dollar scope/ diamond ring, Leonard and knockdown, have affixed to their rifles. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted June 22, 2011 01:41 PM
Far as I know, USO doesn't have a US military contract.
They did build an SSDS model to bid/compete for the USMC SSDS (scout sniper day scope) contract, but it was awarded to Premier Reticles, as assembler/distributor for the S&B 3-12x50 now used as the standard SSDS.
Nightforce was recently awarded a significant US military contract (25 million +) to furnish various special forces & snipers from the four branches of our soldiers.
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 22, 2011 02:21 PM
Apparently, at one point they did have a contract. It does not seem to be the case at this time? I'll look into it more. - Internet Scope Commando
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 22, 2011 04:04 PM
Never heard that it has to be made here for a military contract, got a link?
I'm wondering about Aimpoint, Schmidt and Bender, Sig Sauer, H&K, Berretta and a few others.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted June 22, 2011 04:18 PM
Tom, I can only speak for Beretta and Sig, since those are the only ones I know about, but both have a US plant and distributorship.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
Posts: 423 | From: Spokane Valley, WA | Registered: Mar 2007
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 22, 2011 04:24 PM
Buy American Act and the Berry Amendment...
Edit: just saw tlbradford's post. FNH USA as well.
Edit: this is not a link to the amendments but a link to the Better Business Bureau on Made in the USA and what is required...
Better Business Bureau made in USA thingy
[ June 22, 2011, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 22, 2011 05:07 PM
I know Sig has a plant here but their magazines are made in Italy. FN had the 249 SAW contract long before they opened their US plant. Aimpoint has a plant here too but most of their stuff is still imported from Sweden.
Maybe it's a new deal, maybe it can be assembled here like HK's plant. I don't know but but I'll check it out, thanks.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 22, 2011 05:15 PM
Buy American act, I only see prefer.
The Buy American Act (BAA - 41 U.S.C. §§ 10a–10d) passed in 1933 by Congress and signed by President Roosevelt, required the United States government to prefer U.S.-made products
Berry Amendent, I only see prefer again.
The Berry Amendment (USC, Title 10, Section 2533a), requires the Department of Defense to give preference in procurement to domestically produced, manufactured, or home grown products,
Smithers I don't see anything in your link except don't open an e-mail...
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted June 22, 2011 05:50 PM
quote:
However, the business strategy of a company intentionally outsourcing it's own labor force and/or availing it's parts contractors to help build a product intended to directly compete with their own product line at a given price point is beyond me?
Lots of company's outsource there products to other companys and put there name on it.. Weither they sell a product under there name or to another under a different name they still get paid... Take a look at excavators for example, there are over a dozen different brands out there and most of them are made by 3-4 companys and sold under another name...
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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