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Author
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Topic: Call volume;
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 08, 2013 09:38 AM
Too much B.S. on other threads.
Time to get back to beating each other up about coyotes.
I've been giving some thought about what has been posted by others (even Tim) about call volume and have somewhat developed a theory on the matter.
First of all; We all hunt different types of terrain.
The terrain we hunt tends to suggest the firearm we carry and this can change from stand to stand.
So, I'm thinking that call volume could be based on weapon selection.
A shotgun would indicate thick cover and lower volume.
A mid-range caliber like a .223 would indicate more open terrain and more volume.
And if you're carrying a bean-field rifle that is built for reach, the call volume should also reach.
What say the assembled masses????
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 08, 2013 09:45 AM
To my simple approach, you make sense. I hope I am as wise and sage when I reach your exalted station and age.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 08, 2013 10:16 AM
I guess I adhere to a simple approach when it comes to volume. I usually start out stands with howls. Then regardless of the terrain(Thick,moderate cover,or wide open)I use midrange volume(including my howls)with the exception of very windy days then I will crank the volume.I typically make 15 minute stands for the most part,and walk ALOT or take my ATV. And my stands are a fairly short distance apart,especially in areas I know hold alot of coyotes.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 08, 2013 10:20 AM
Koco,
Although I call pretty loud for coyotes, I don't like to hear the sound echo back at me when calling timber and brush, so I turn the volume down a little.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted February 08, 2013 12:58 PM
I've noticed back home in our hardwoods, the caller appears louder than when I am in the desert. I get the "echo" back home if I call (IMO) too loud.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted February 08, 2013 01:45 PM
the amount of cover dictates which gun and how loud.
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Krustyklimber
prefers the bunny hugger pronunciation: ky o tee
Member # 72
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posted February 08, 2013 02:28 PM
Agreed, back home, and here in the hardwoods a hand call seems too loud.
A shotgun almost always shows enough value, to me, to go everywhere I go.
Like Rich says "if you call em in close you don't need a high dollar range finder" ...or a rifle.
A large portion of the coyotes I've fired on and missed, with the rifle, were in shotgun range.
Krusty
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Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of them are stupider than that!
Posts: 1912 | From: Deep in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 08, 2013 03:23 PM
I did forget to mention that for the last several years(again regardless of the terrain) when I first sit down to call before I howl I will lip squeak on the back of my hand for a few seconds and wait to start calling for a a couple of minutes, just in case I have one REALLY close. Has got me a few bonus coyotes over the years.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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jimanaz
2nd Place RICHARD FARNSWORTH LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3689
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posted February 08, 2013 04:53 PM
If you know you're close to the coyotes, don't call very loud. If you're not sure where they are, or haven't herded them into the section of your choice, call louder.
ETA: On a serious note, a jackrabbit scream is loud. A cottontail, not so much, but I really don't think the coyotes that are going to respond to a call know that. A coyote vocalizing from the distance most people put their e-callers at is REALLY freaking loud.
If you're calling softly enough that a distant coyote can just barely hear it, will it think maybe that rabbit is too damn far away? Once they start, they probably don't change their mind cuz it's farther than they originally thought.
I know of a fella who almost always calls at max volume. He kills a few critters and has pictures of coyotes and bobcats right on top of his caller. Volume consideration is over rated, IMO. I start distress low and ramp it up pretty quickly so I can put the remote down. I usually run my caller at about 3/4 full volume. Natural sounds echo too.
[ February 08, 2013, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
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Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842
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posted February 08, 2013 07:05 PM
I hate hearing the echo. It doesn't sound natural (to my ears) at all. So, like others have said...Cover will dictate volume for me. If its wide open, I'll start loud and generally keep it there.
If its brushy draws, I'll start lower.
And...it might not make a bit of difference either! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 09, 2013 11:25 AM
Koko your theory has a few holes in it..
I don't use a shotty when calling, just a med. range rifle and only change to a bigger cal. when in areas that see alot of pressure..
I call with the caller on full volume or just down one click for distress sounds and full volume with vocals..
Instead of lowering the volume according to the type of cover I may call, I just use a softer sound like a vole mouse, baby cotton-tail,or bird
and start most of my stands with one of these sounds and then half way through if nothing shows then I switch to one of the deeper sounding distress sounds like jack or snowshoe..
As for the sound echoing thats a added bunus as it just confuses the coyote to the callers exact location which causes the coyote to just stand around and look.. I've never had a coyote refuse to come in to a stand cause the caller was too loud, they don't care..
Go out calling for a week with the caller on full volume and just match the sounds to the type of cover you willbe calling, it will surprise you...
Even when calling in big country with the volume on full the coyotes will still come with-in 100 200 yards and perhaps closer if I would let them, I don't.....
Edit to add.
For those that call low to med. volume stay on one of your empty stands a little longer and then give full volume a try, it may also surprise you on what you are missing... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
[ February 09, 2013, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted February 09, 2013 11:32 AM
i have seen guys blow coyotes out when starting on high, and i mean coyotes that are within 150 yds jump and run as hard as they can, like it scared the jeepers out of them
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 09, 2013 12:05 PM
quote:
coyotes that are within 150 yds
Yep! And most likely knew they were there.......
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 09, 2013 12:45 PM
Here's my response. The whole question is sorta self explanatory because I am liable to change sound on a whim, up and down as it suits me. So the argument in favor of volume and advocating lower volume so you don't "scare" them is just talk, as far as my personal attitude. I do all of it as it suits me, in a twelve minute span.
Chew on that little nugget, El Bee
(not revolutionary, is it?)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 09, 2013 06:17 PM
"Go out calling for a week with the caller on full volume and just match the sounds to the type of cover you willbe calling, it will surprise you."
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BWAAA HA HA HA! So now a coyote can tell which type of critter it hears screaming?
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 09, 2013 09:49 PM
".......with the volume on full the coyotes will still come within 100 - 200 yards......"
Tim, this is where we run into differences.
If a coyote comes in to my shotgun and stops at a hundred & will come no closer, I call that `hung-up` where-as a rifle guy would call that `a chip shot`.
My average shooting distance last fur season was between 25 & 30 yards.
With a shotgun, I want them close.
With a bow, I actually want them past me.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 09, 2013 10:28 PM
Koko I said when they come in with the caller at full volume I shoot them at the 100-200 yd. mark.. They will still come right up to the caller at full volume if I don't shoot ...
There are even a few vid.s out there showing coyotes sticking there heads right in or in front of the speaker.. Like I said try it, if it don't work for you, then it don't work....
You know me I like to call whats there than have to waste time moveing to another spot..
[ February 09, 2013, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 10, 2013 05:51 AM
quote:
I've never had a coyote refuse to come in to a stand cause the caller was too loud, they don't care..
If there is a coyote 1/4 mile away, out of sight, that hears the call but does not respond, doesn't that one count as a refusal?
Or do you just automatically attribute the refusal to some other wonky excuse, rather than admit you skeeered the shit balls out of that coyote with too much initial volume?
Say you got one located in one of them Minnesota plum thickets, is your tactic of calling them to sneak within rifle range and put the WT on full blast prey distress in their face? If so, I have a pretty god idea of why you choose to herd those coyotes with "the crew" over calling them to the edge of a patch of cover, lol!
For conversation...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted February 10, 2013 07:13 AM
Holding a W.T. caller directly over your head while it is playing at full volume is begging for blown ear drums and resulting deafness. I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to do THAT. Oh upon pondering that thought a bit longer I actually did think of ONE guy who might try that. Holy Smokes!
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 10, 2013 11:04 AM
quote:
If there is a coyote 1/4 mile away, out of sight, that hears the call but does not respond, doesn't that one count as a refusal?
Lets put it this way, the ones I do see or located have not run away from the caller being to loud so why would it be any different for the ones I don't see.
As for home I have called more coyotes with the volume cranked up than with it at any other setting.. " thats why I use full volume", it produces coyotes on my stands and from what I've seen they just don't care how loud it is...
I also don't set up in or near the thickets that hold coyotes as sure as the shit running down your nose you'll be busted everytime....
Just a rough estimate a coyote will know when you are less than 1/2 mile away from them.. Some will run, some will just sit it out and wait for you to leave, and some may forget what they heard and come in to a call after some time has lapse.. If you have dry soil to walk on or some wind or perhaps a wall of heavey cover, you may have a chance to get close without being detected.... Night time calling can be even harder yet to get with-in calling distance as most of the coyotes are up and moveing around, plus sound carries much better at night when there is less going on in a given area. Fresh snow helps cover up the sound of you walking in to make a stand, hard crusted snow does not and will make it more of a challenge.. Wind helps also but you are not always going to get the perfect conditions so rather than wait for them I just hunt them up, either way they will get put up on a stretcher.. For some killing coyotes is a ego boosting, chest thumping, that aboy deal. For me its all about putting fur on the stretcher by calling ,trapping, or hunting them,its all good...
Fred when was the last time you hunted a coyote down with or with out your dog??? you even have a clue as to how to get it done... I doubt it... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted February 10, 2013 11:08 AM
Rich the more I read your posts the more I learn. I've learned you truely don't know shit about calling let alone coyotes...Perhaps thats why you struggle so much with your coyotes... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted February 10, 2013 12:13 PM
TA, the more I read your posts the more I learn. I've learned you truly don't know shit about calling let alone coyotes... Perhaps that's why you struggle so much with your coyotes...
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted February 10, 2013 01:51 PM
well i made a stand this week and i knew the coyotes were in a little patch of timber of about a acre, i walked in set up and the coyote showed up in nine seconds of turning the call on, i can tell you tim, that coyote was alot closer then 1/2 mile and he didnt have any idea i was there, matter of fact he was layed up about 150 yards from where i set up, so yes you can be closer then 1/2 mile and them not know you are there, and its fine with me if they want to come right up to the end of my nose, i am fine with killing them close too
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 10, 2013 02:37 PM
Tim, your theory has a few holes in it
You say the coyotes you did call in at home responded to high volume. That's an excellent analysis, being this all you use, lol! But what about your dry stands at home? How can you be certain that your loud calling did not have the opposite effect on any coyotes within earshot?
I'm failing to comprehend how you can draw a conclusion about a coyote's reaction to loud calling if you never actually SAW the coyote's subsequent response?
You can play the character assassination card on me all ya want to try changing the subject. Funny though, because, unless you were diggin for a Mt Dew the whole time, you heard me hand call and seen me shoot before. But, am I so far behind your e-caller volume skillset that you need me to re-qualify myself in order to question something that makes no sense to me?
Or, are you just trying to change the subject?
Would it make any difference if it was an "expert" asking the same questions of you?
If that is the case, just pretend that I shoot better and call more convincingly than you do, and humor me by answering
How can you tell that loud calling does not have a potentially negative effect on a coyote that us closeby IF YOU CANT SEE THE COYOTE'S reaction?
Is it because you saw it on a WT video, or something?
How can ANYONE draw such a conclusion, for that matter?
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 10, 2013 02:41 PM
quote:
I also don't set up in or near the thickets that hold coyotes as sure as the shit running down your nose you'll be busted everytime....
Yeah, why would ya do something silly like trying to sneak in & call that fawker to the edge of the thicket? It ain't like you already know one is in there...
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