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Author
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Topic: For Koko or anyone else.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 28, 2024 04:12 AM
I found some of my papers from when I did sound tests and sound travel.
First off sound meter simple electronic tool that measures sound and used by O.S.H.A. Most come with 3 settings to measure sound or pick all of it up at short or long level and is recorded into device as well. If anything makes a noise it can be sensitive enough to pick it up just change to another setting.
Mule team six advertises for a suppresser company and makes claim that this suppresser is quieter than what's on the market. Maybe it is but we just splitting cunt hairs either way and others will work just as good if matched to right caliber.
I also talked with them about their claim and their reply was they was using a state-of-the-art sound meter. LOL did little research on sound meters main difference was more bells and whistles like sound recording ect. Most of them out there still read sound the same so who is he trying to kid. The meter the company borrowed to me to use was right up there at the top. So anyway, just splitting hairs as far as who's is better.
When I tested for sound travel and how loud it can be I used my WT for entire test, wish I had a fox pro at the time also.
with meter 30 ft. from caller mouse vole put out 71-94 dcb at full volume. 2" in front of caller it put out 120-130 dcb.
Cottontail adult 95-98
Baby cottontail 85
Jack rabbit 95-100
Snowshoe hare 95-98
Lamb 96-104
Lamb 2" from caller 125-134
Coyote adult female 96-105
Coyote adult male 98-103
coyote pup distress 88-97
Estrus chirp ??? close to what pup distress puts out or little less, not loud sound.
As most should know by now the loud deep sounds would carry best on windy day over the higher pitched sounds. Calm day the higher pitch takes over, travels little farther and more continues.
There are a few podcasts going around one by MFK and one by P-P and few others as well.
Some of the experts claim to turn volume up and then turn volume down then turn volume back up, not sure what reason for that is other than to confuse animal trying to hear it.
Then another group believes in calling with volume at 75% or less at times. Not going to cover much ground so I can see why some guy's struggle if they are going by this info.
If you looked at my numbers, I listed at full volume with loudest caller on the market just imagine how much those numbers would shrink if not using full volume of cheaper E-caller or one not capable of producing that much volume.
I been going back and forth between my WT and the Lucky duck callers. Both can call coyotes just one does it little better than other one. One of the draw backs is loudness of sound, the L.D does not get out there as far as I like and at times not loud enough to to create and aggressive response. The louder the sound makes coyote think the other is close by thus it gets more aggressive.
Take two dogs that get in a fight, last thing you want to do is scream and holler at them it just makes them more aggressive, but on a bay up then you want to get the dogs more excited/aggressive, so they kill the coyote. Its same way when calling coyotes.
L.D. has a sound of pups killing a deer gets pretty aggressive and at time makes it sound like pups getting ass kicked as well. Adults will come running in to either help the pups or kill them. As Bill would say coyotes don't have grocery stores!
New coyote vocals on the market. Wt. has had the same sounds for as long as they been making their E-caller.
Lucky duck has his recordings of penned coyotes that still show some fear, so sounds are pretty good.
MFK has new sounds with a lot of breeding sounds, not sure how many of them you need. LOL And MFK recorded coyotes supposedly lived outside a pen but were domesticated so they could be handled. There is some difference of the howls compared to actual wild coyotes. Also L.D. recorded the western strain of coyotes and MFK recorded Eastern strain of coyotes. What I seen so far in some of their vid. are the coyotes coming into vocals get stand-offish quit often.
Bill at WT recorded the northeastern coyotes which run little bigger in size thus louder coyote vocals that carry well in the wind and farther out. Bills coyotes were recorded in the wild and only thing he did was make a bait pile just to draw them in for filming and recording. Some of his vocals have little wavering to them, which means that coyote he recorded was a little uncertain of itself. You don't get same results from tame or penned coyotes.
I was out calling other night with 40-degree temps. all I can say is wow that shit not normal for here, but I like it. Now the temps. dropped a little with heavy winds for 4-5 days and nights.
Coyotes paired up so I guess its breeding time, right? Fact is the coyotes been running in pairs all winter, two adults or two YOY running together. Listen to podcast or forums on this some seem to think soon as they see a pair of coyotes, they think they are breeding already. LOL I always say if the female is not swollen or has no blood or greenish clear discharge then she not in heat.
And if someone sees a YOY trying to mount another coyote at other times of the year it just has a hormone imbalance or just gay.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 28, 2024 05:31 AM
Degree of volume has been kicked around on these boards since they started. Some claim full volume, some say soft, some say intermittent, some say constant....pick your poison.
Everyone has some story of empirical evidence that one way or the other works best, truth is, it probably don't make two shits different what you choose to play, or how loud or the how much.
I'll toss this out just because I found it amazing. Was calling with my Son in law years back, big long open with scattered mesquite. Had him put the call out farther than I usually do, maybe 35 yards away. We settled in I hit the go button and raised the volume till my deaf ears can hear and call it good. My ears could never hear, asked him if he could hear it and he said, I think so, so I just let it roll.
The next 10 minutes had me straining to hear the caller, and at times, I actually thought I could. Long story short, here comes a big rough male loping in from what I would guess was 500 yards out. Came to call, son in law shoots it.
When I go out to collect caller, I had to literally put my ear to the speaker to make out the sound, it was next to nothing.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 28, 2024 03:28 PM
Sure, if a guy gets lucky and sets up close enough to one in first place maybe don't need much volume. Sometimes just hand squeaker is enough. Also helps if you got good numbers to start. But my point is calling to the ones that are farther out and far enough they can't hear a caller at half volume depending on brand and size of caller. And my other point is full volume don't hurt and coyotes can careless how loud it is, just excites them more. Reach out there in volume to cover more area when you have fewer coyotes or have not taken time to go out and locate them and thus make fewer stands cause you can cover more ground.
At night I can look out into a open field and see half mile or better depending on lay of the land and not see a coyote anywhere. Its farmland here all open ground mostly. The coyote I'm calling to can be in same one mile section or perhaps across the road at times. Some areas also I have no place or cover to hide the truck so at times have to set up a little farther away where I can find a good place to hide the pickup. Its the same when calling big country like western S.D. that's mostly pasture you locate your coyotes then you look for a place where you can hide the truck then slip in on them and set up to call.
This winter I had a area with a group of coyotes and been there 5-6 times total taking one coyote at a time and the area I called from was becoming alien to them to point they would come in but always stayed down in the drainage so you couldn't see them for a shot and then just sit and howl back at you.
I found a nice spot to hide truck about a mile away and had right wind so I set up and called long distance (LOL). At the hour and half mark, I spotted one of the target coyotes coming over a small rise just south of the drainage where they stayed in and was over in next mile section.
I kept feeding it a few howls every so often to keep it interested till it crossed the road then I switch to pups killing a deer and it picked up the pace to the point that it didn't even try to go down wind right away. I could watch it the whole time through the thermal and had time to turn on video record just before I killed it.
I've been to AZ. you have fewer access roads there so either you do a lot of walking to get into them or just drive down what road you have and then call again after short drive which means more stands for a given area and then hope there is one close enough to hear the caller and also hope you can find a spot open enough to pick one out when it shows.
Question is how many coyotes got passed up because they couldn't hear the caller to begin with or passed on because you couldn't find a good spot to set up on????
From listening to some of the podcasts these guys just try to come up with excuses as to why the coyotes didn't come in as much, like moon phases, barometer, not hungry and so on.
Roads get pressured or the easy ones get killed early in the season so now you have to have the tool that can reach out farther and bring in what's there or that's been passed on so many times or just leave them to insure you have a good crop for next year.
Not saying full volume is the answer for everyone but it is an option to think about. so is time spent on stand rather than 15-minute stand call louder and just stay longer since you took the time to set up in that spot give the coyotes a little time as well.
Something else to think about, you call a spot and kill one or two coyotes from a family group and then leave. What about the rest of them? A litter can be anywhere from 3-8 coyote pups and families tend to stay somewhat intact till breeding time. The pups will hang close together and the parents will be around as well just not as close to the pups and perhaps just out of hearing range if a guy not calling full volume. Just saying is all.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 28, 2024 08:11 PM
I guess the question is, how far can they hear low volume in your opinion? I just gave an example of one hearing a cottontail sound so dim, I had to put my ear to the speaker to hear it, and the coyote heard it over a 1/4 mile away.
Your perception of Arizona is flawed Tim, I hunt some open country you can see for miles, with some low hills, washes and grassland. I don't often hunt tight stands, in fact rarely. Mostly mesquite flats with large grass opens, size of half a football field to many fields long and wide.
I don't think high volumne is a bad thing, I just think it's over rated to some degree, and my experience has proven it to me at least.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 29, 2024 12:18 AM
I’m with Vic, other than when the wind is really blowing volume is overrated. I call extremely open areas in Utah, Wyoming, and Nevada there are times when volume is nice but most times lower volume works just fine. Like I said in an earlier post I’ve owned Foxpro, WT, and Lucky Duck and there’s very little difference in volume, and sound quality. They all call coyotes. And Tim before you say that one calls more than another let me just say BULLSHIT!!
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 01:54 AM
quote:
I guess the question is, how far can they hear low volume in your opinion? I just gave an example of one hearing a cottontail sound so dim, I had to put my ear to the speaker to hear it, and the coyote heard it over a 1/4 mile away.
That I don't know Vic. I can only go by what I see and how they react to a sound being played. I play a rabbit sound and see a coyote off in distance and it turns its head from side to side trying to pick up more of a sound it barely hears. I can turn up the sound if its not at max or I can switch to another sound that plays louder and may get a different reaction. But anyway, twisting and turning its head is a good indication of how far it can hear or not hear enough.
Out of respect I never drove down to where you lived to hunt so yeah, I don't know what that area looks like, just going by other part of the state I did see. Area by Florence then north to Steve Craigs, through the forest and west to Paul's place then back south again. There was some nice open ground over by the Quarries, but area was full of those stinking goats and wasn't sure I could hunt around there.
Chad, hold a coffee cup up to your lips when you say that. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 02:38 AM
I own four WT's and one of the Lucky ducks. Just playing all 4 WT's side by side they are not the same performance wise. The large TOA speaker has always been the top caller in WT's line of callers.
Place the Lucky duck in front of the Toa speaker and it only covers about a 1/4 of it which means the sound cone is going to be 1/4 of the size of a 2030 WT. No matter what volume you have the caller set at. And the output of the Lucky duck is going to be less, just way it is.
F-P x-24 is supposed to be pretty loud but don't know how loud cause F-P won't show the spec.s on it and they also pushing their sounds through a plastic TOA speaker which is not same as a metal TOA.
I think you said you had the mighty atom WT caller, and I would put that caller as about the same as the lucky duck in performance sound wise. (has a higher pitch to it)
General calling to yoy or virgin ears I'd say yeah, they are all good enough.
I rotate between my two brands of callers and do know I have more call ins when I'm using the WT. I don't have a lot of coyotes to play with compared to other parts of the state but do know when I can go out at night and call in 6 coyotes or more, I'm doing pretty good compared to other guys here that lucky to see 3 coyotes in a night and they hunt in better areas than me. Plus they listen to all the podcasts so they way much better at calling than me as well.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 03:08 AM
Turning volume up and down?
I'm always willing to try new things just in case maybe I missed something. So, for a time once I had a coyote spotted coming in from far off, I would lower the volume thinking the coyote would have to work the caller more and be not so quick as to pinpoint my exact where abouts and so on. Just let em come. By doing this I noticed some coyotes would lose interest and just mill around or even leave and then I would have to turn caller back on if I turned it off and increase the volume to get them interested again or turned back around. I saw no benefit in turning a caller's volume down so now days it stays at full volume no matter how far or close a coyote is.
Continues play or stop and go? If I can see the coyote to begin with, I go by what it does, if it's stopping all the time when caller is off then I just leave it on and see if that makes a difference, many times it just keeps them coming even when playing coyotes vocals continues.
Rick at Lucky duck has what he calls a long hunt which is a series of different sounds with short pause in between them, sometimes i pause it manually as I go or just let it play out the way he has it set up. I find both ways works well and think he did a good job of coming up with this series of sounds. I do same thing but have to look for each sound I want to play where Rick has it all set up for that which is nice, just push one button. Once again Rick did a good job on this.
Edit to add; My stands don't have a set time limit; I just wait it out till I feel in my heart its time to move on or if I get a vocal response then I sit longer yet. I don't even wear a watch.
How long do I play each sound, once again no time limit. I may make several howls before I switch to prey distress and may pause prey distress or just let it play till something shows then I just watch and see what the coyote likes.
Many times I'll do a locate as I'm setting up a stand and if no replies then I may leave that stand a little sooner but do have a few that come in silent so just have to wait them out, many times I see them right away in the distance.
Sound choices? most every stand starts with a howl of some sort to wake them up or get their attention. Early season may just use prey distress after that, as some coyotes will tend to circle wider if they can't handle coyote vocals, unsure of themselves or what's there. As season goes then I add more coyote vocals to a stand but try to stay on friendly side (non-threatening) of things till I know whats there.
On some stands when I start with a howl or two then go to prey sounds if nothing shows after a spell, I will play more coyote vocals, reason being they may not be hearing the prey distress sounds so I give them something louder they can hear. Like I said before if they can't hear the sounds from a caller they not going to come..
[ February 29, 2024, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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NVWalt
Does not claim to be overly bright!
Member # 375
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posted February 29, 2024 06:46 AM
I find all this data interesting. But my question is. How does a mouth blown call compare to your e-caller volume wise etc.etc. .
I have watched coyotes come from really far distances while calling some flats in Nevada and I wasn't screaming as loud as I cold on my call. My calls use the standard JC reed cottontail or jack.
I found my cottontail call worked for me better than the jack overall and when my buddy Ron and I tested out his Fox Pro to just my mouth blown call. And this was over a season and many many trips. I called in many more than the e-caller. Why? I don't know and we just figured the coyotes where we hunted had heard the e-caller sounds so much my calling was just different and maybe that was the reason. I just put a lot of feeling into my call and it does sound a little different than how Ron called. Maybe?
Just wondering how a mouth blown call differs from the e-caller.
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Support Communism and help destroy the United States of America ! VOTE DEMOCRAT. "In the end, they aren't coming after me. They are coming after you!" D.Trump
Posts: 636 | From: Tellico Plains, TN | Registered: Aug 2004
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 29, 2024 10:34 AM
Makes me wonder why WT ecallers haven’t completely taken over the caller market. They’ve been around a lot longer than either Foxpro, and Lucky Duck. All three are about the same price. And according to Tim they have better sounds,they are louder, and they call more Coyotes, and Bill’s no longer around to insult people. I’m shocked that they’re not selling like hot cakes. 😉
Good Hunting Chad
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 10:49 AM
Walt I don't have all my papers any longer but believe I tested a mouth call and a howler at the time. Mouth call was Burham bro.s with double jc reed and think it was around 85 dcb. and howler was in the 90's.
I also remember back in my Red fox calling days I had a bedded red fox roughly 3/4 miles away and got its attention enough to get it to come in and I was useing the Burham bro.s call which also was very high pitched for a call. And I know I had to really lay into it enough for the fox to hear it.
Later on I switched over to a bite reed call made by Ed Scerry which I could get some good high pitched volume out of. I'd have to say for distance I was really pushing it to reach 3/4 mile on calm day.
As for E-caller I set up along river north of Piere where river was the narrowest and where Randy Roede said to set up because this was where the coyotes were crossing it after freezing. Had to use Bino's to pick out the coyotes at that distance they were just little specks. River was at least a mile wide there if not more, I'd have to look at one of my maps and measure it for an exact distance. I'll do that later tonight.
Anyway, I had my E-caller on at full volume and tried different sounds to get the coyotes attention on other bank and just watch their reaction when I played the caller. At first, I got nothing so I switched to a louder deeper sound and some of the coyotes would look in my direction but did not move and I noticed they would turn their heads from side to side trying to pick up whatever it was they was hearing a part of. I still couldn't get them to come. I then started to turn the E-caller more into the wind and then all of a sudden, they perked up and started coming across the ice in my direction. I had two problems at the time. One I started too late to call this spot and it was getting dark and other problem was I was sitting up to high with riverbank below me with brushy cover along it. They got to the shoreline and thats the last I saw of them. LOL
One thing I noticed about sound and the sound meter is the meter picks up the smallest part of the sound as well as the loudest part so a sound that i put up starts at 96 and ends up at 105 for example, now throw distance in and a little wind a coyote far out is not going to hear all of the sound the caller is making, just the loudest parts of it the farther out they are and you just hope they hear enough of it to get them coming.
Also, which is another reason to use full volume and have the loudest E-caller you can get. Something that's going to put more of the sound out there for them to hear and then get a reaction.
What bothers me is guys like Big Al Morrison a world champion caller goes out calling and only uses 3/4 of the volume a caller can produce or turns volume up and then down on a stand and then don't call shit in and then comes up with stupid excuses as to why they couldn't get any coyotes to come in like Barometer pressure, moon phases and so on, just excuses that mean nothing and then they get the audience believing the same crap. This also tells me anyone can be a world champion caller if you got the money to unlock gates and call to virgin ears.
Al spent one day driving around looking for call locations because it was too windy to call and film that day. So they find areas with all kinds of coyote scat, so they come back next day and call the area and nothing, so he comes up with more excuses as to why they didn't come.
They didn't come because they weren't there to hear his caller at 3/4 volume, only takes couple stands to figure them out. The area covered with scat was just a feeding area and the coyotes spent the day farther back away from the roads, that's what pressured coyotes do.
Also, instead of just driving around he should have gotten rested up and went out that night and located them, so he knows exactly where they are for the next day and then call in a truck load and look like a world champion. LOL It's not just Al there are many other experts like him that have some sort of title or trophy on a wall that automatically makes them a expert. Hell if you live in Texas and kill 50-100 coyotes a year you automatically and expert. But on same note ask some of those experts what do they do if they have coyotes lock up on them too far to shoot, simple they just pack up and leave and besides their 15 minutes is up. LOL
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 10:56 AM
Chad but they are selling really good that's why WT don't have to advertise or have 50 head ProStaff hanging around for table scraps. Also, their E-callers are used for calling other critters besides coyotes. I never had a problem with Bill but then again, I never tried to tell him how to run his business. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Edit to add. And for the record I'm not here trying to sell WT's it just so happens I use them so they going to get talked about, I guess. It's a good product that I have never had to replace or look somewhere else.
[ February 29, 2024, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 29, 2024 04:12 PM
Then why do you have several others?
Look, there are so many variables, like mentioned, moon phase, high pressure, weather front moving in, season and 8 or ten other factors. Saying it's like apples and oranges doesn't begin to cover the question. Is it the "sound" meaning the actual recording, or the machine? Is there something about a Foxpro that enhances that recording way better than the WT?
I could even throw in the coyotes I have called with a Johnny Stewart, which is so far back, in technical development terms. How about 8 fucking track tape decks?
I have waded into these conversations lots of times and at some point will bring up a squeaking brake drum. Who the hell knows? Once your example stated is over and done, those conditions can never be duplicated. So, it worked once, but then it DIDN'T last week, (when every thing was different) so what the hell does that prove?
Use what you got and have confidence in, and quit trying to convince everybody that you have caught lightning in a bottle/pure gold! Estrus chirps is solid gold, but day in and day out, does it beat Dying Jack?
I'm gonna butt out and leave it to those that truly know it all, to explain it to us.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS he's called out in the topic and ko ko must have the day off?
[ February 29, 2024, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 29, 2024 04:56 PM
Ok ................... First off, I should have a decibel meter to play with by this week-end.
(1) One Fox Pro at my usual 3/4 volume.
(2) Two Fox Pros playing similar rabbit sounds at 3/4 volume at the same time.
(3) A Crit-R-Call at 3/4 lungs.
(4) A Circe Trophy Model / Jack at 3/4 lungs.
(5) A mouth blown howler. Not sure of the brand off of the top of my head.
(6) Open to suggestions.
We gonna settle some of this shit once & for all.
Some of the other stuff, probably never.
Now, just what Vic said; Happened to me in Ore. in hard wind. An old Johnny Stewart tape caller. The one that made your arm longer if you had to carry it very far. No remote. Hit play and scoot to your stand. Could not hear the caller in that wind but about five minutes in spotted a tiny dot of fur coming in at a trot from way the Hell out.
One size may not fit all, but;
I BELIEVE; If you underestimate a coyote's hearing you're making a mistake.
I BELIEVE; That if a coyote hangs up at a couple of hundred yards it's probably because of too much volume.
I think that high volume is good to use briefly to get a distant coyote's attention but better to then tone it down.
Bear in mind, also that 'in close' is relative. A guy with a rifle thinks 200 yards is close. Someone with a shotgun thinks that <40 yards is close and some goof-ball shooting pointed sticks likes them in under 30 yards.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 29, 2024 06:17 PM
Everything that has been said has happened to me at one time or another, including whatever Vic said. I've, (after all) been there and done that!
Good hunting. El Bee
and, I just got back from the Highway robbery Market. I'm all fixed up for St Patrick's day. You know, the Corned Beef & Cabbage ritual in honor of my dearly departed Wife of 44 years who has been gone now for almost 18 years. PS she was Proud Irish, but you would never guess. Her father would laugh and say she was "Black Irish" then laugh his ass off. I think because her three brothers were all fair like the father but Nancy must have favored her mother's side, who was German. In any case, Nanc was a "Brownette" hair color, and if left in the sun for half a day, she would easily be mistaken for Mexican or some Hispanic? Her brothers were the type that would get a severe sunburn after a couple hours in the sun. Therefore, Nanc, (as a kid) she was always bugging her mom; "Was I adopted?" It was very true; she just didn't look like any of them?
So anyway, the Corned Beef and Cabbage on St Patrick's Day is my attempt at a Shrine in favor of her memory.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 07:15 PM
quote:
Then why do you have several others?
The mighty atom I have is set up for calling wolves, big cats, coon and other critters you find in the lower states. The caller is on the heavy side so something I don't like to carry when I'm far from the truck. Its also loaded with many sounds and can be a bit too much for any caller.
Next caller is the smaller TOA speaker, Pat at WT said I won't like it due to its size and performance compared to 2030. I didn't listen to her and got it anyway, my bad she was right. Its still good caller and I use it when I'm limited on room for gear and calling in tight areas where I don't need all the volume and I only had it loaded with about 100 sounds just to keep things simple. Its a good caller to have along also for early season calling.
Next is my old 2030 which is set up mostly for western S.D. calling but also works well here. I had it for over 25 years I believe and its starting to wear out and you just can't get parts for it any longer. All E-caller companies have that issue of getting parts. They get discontinued so another source for parts has to be found and then the internal stuff has to be updated or changed so new parts will work. Just look at F-P and all the changes they made through the years, it wasn't for the customer it was because they did not stock up on enough parts for each model of caller they had..
My newest caller is the WT Launt which is clone to the 2030 and replaces that caller. Its set up with all the coyote vocals and prey sounds and good for calling coyotes most anywhere but does not have any of the coon or fox sounds cept few distress sounds.
I then got a Lucky duck because I heard good things about it from friends up here and wanted to also compare it to my WT's and since it was a newer caller if I didn't like it I could sell it pretty quick where the F.P. market is flooded.
Yeah I'm happy with the Lucky duck and will keep it but its not the same as a WT 2030 and can clearly see that by how the coyotes approach my stands. The famous Estrus chirp? I gave it a good go since I had the caller and had more coyotes turn away from it than come in so I don't use that sound anymore. Wt also has their version of it but its not called estrus chirp. So I also guess Bill wins that deal on being the first to come out with it.
quote:
Look, there are so many variables, like mentioned, moon phase, high pressure, weather front moving in, season and 8 or ten other factors. Saying it's like apples and oranges doesn't begin to cover the question. Is it the "sound" meaning the actual recording, or the machine? Is there something about a Foxpro that enhances that recording way better than the WT?
I been out as many nights as I can long as the wind not blowing over 10 mph regardless of moon phases and whatever else there is, I still had coyotes respond to my calling, it just doesn't matter. Nothing magical about it, just have to know your coyotes and where they like to be and how they move or don't move and then have them hear the caller and play a sound that gets them excited enough to want to come in. As Bill once said there are no supermarkets for coyotes they have to eat and defend their terr. or they just die.
WT sound is studio grade and Lucky duck not even close to that, it helps. Remember how I told you guys early about how distance and wind can break up a sound to where a coyote only hears parts of it farther out? Well, if you have a bad recording that sound is going to be broken up worse the farther it goes in distance.
But remember if a guy only plans to call to coyotes less than 3/4 mile away then don't worry about how bad it sounds or was recorded it can still work I guess. LOL
Leonard when you called from your night rig its not that important how far the sound traveled cause you always driving ahead as you go. Big difference between that and a solid stand.
Studio grade sounds go hand in hand with a Top of the line calling unit. You have the best recording but you still need a machine that can handle it and get every bit out of the sound without distorting it or defeat the purpose of having studio grade sounds to start with.
Take lucky duck, they have a setting on the caller 1-4 which I think cuts down the amp so that you can play certain sounds without them distorting at full volume, thing is you lose volume as well when you change that, so what's the gain there?
Take the WT for example its designed to be played at full volume the sounds are designed to be played at full volume and only know of one sound that distorts a little, so you bumped the volume down one quick push of button.
Kelly Jackson had a pirated WT sound on his top F.P. caller and played it for us at Randy Roede's. The F.P. didn't play it any better than the WT but at same time it was hard to listen to cause we was inside the garage. Also, if the sounds not that important why was so many guys trying to get WT sounds on their F-P.s? I think Vic said he even had one of a wt. rabbit.
Not saying a WT is the golden nugget or greatest caller out there that's up to others to decided. What I'm saying is guys are passing up too many coyotes when out calling cause they just getting by with what they use.
If a guy works his way through a area of say five miles early season he better be calling in at least five coyotes minimum, if not he is not calling what's there. and I'm talking day to day calling and not some contest.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 07:30 PM
quote:
I have waded into these conversations lots of times and at some point will bring up a squeaking brake drum. Who the hell knows? Once your example stated is over and done, those conditions can never be duplicated. So, it worked once, but then it DIDN'T last week, (when every thing was different) so what the hell does that prove?
Thats another point I'm trying to get across. Repeatability! In last month many guys are scrambling to get the latest hot new sounds from MFK and one other source thinking they the holy grail of sounds. Bad news is they not. WT has all those sounds and had them for over 25 years, nothing new about them. I'm still using same sounds I had when I first got my WT with exception of adding all the vocals WT has so my library is complete and can cover all the bases if I need to later on in the season. Female invite and just vole mouse both have worked together over and over through the years.
I think Vic said the WT rabbit was his go to sound year after year. Thats repeatability.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 08:22 PM
Koko enjoy the sound meter when you get it. To keep things equal you need to test the E-callers outside in the open.
One day i was out to Randy Roedes and it was too windy to call so Randy took me over to a friend of his a retired ADC trapper turned call maker. Sorry but his name slips my mind these days.
Anyway, he used a sound meter to test his calls and he like to use wide tone boards with thick reed on them. He could get some dam good volume out of them, but thing was you needed big lungs to blow dam things and they just didn't sit right in my mouth. He had Varis tone boards all shapes and sizes we tested or played with just nothing I liked. I think he could get around 100 dcb with his custom calls which i thought was pretty good.
I went out to the truck and got one of my favorite calls, it was E.L.K products yote buster with a buffalo horn tip added to increase volume, it has a very narrow tone board that I liked. It has more of a higher pitched howl to it but is also loud. When we tested the yote buster it was right up there in volume with his big tone board callers but due to its higher pitch it wouldn't buck the wind very well compared to his bigger tone board, Be like a cottontail comparison to a jack rabbit distress sound.
Oh just remembered Steve Thompson is his name.
Steve took a look at the yote buster call and noticed there was a step cut in the tone board to allow more air to get under the reed.
I came back out about two weeks later and Steve bought up some Primo's Hot dog tone boards that Randy Anderson uses. I told Steve I had one at home and didn't like it cause the reed laid to flat, so you always had to bend it with your tongue like Randy did in his vid.s to keep it working.
Steve handed me one of his modified Hot dog tone boards and said give it a try. I made a few howls and noticed I could howl pretty good with it, wasn't anything like the one I had at home. I said what did you do to it?
Steve said he sanded down the tone board so he could get a step on it at base of reed where it fastens down, thus getting more air under the reed and not having to bend the reed up all the time.
Check it on the meter and it was right up there with his howls and also little easier to use. I took two of the modified tone boards home with me.
anyway the open reed calls should give you more volume than the JC reeded calls and between both types I think they will run at 60-90 dcb. Lets us know how it works out.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 09:06 PM
One of the draw backs of calling too loud.
If I'm calling to a family group of coyotes and there happens to be a coyote farther away and behind the group and not part of it. It may not want to come in due to having to pass through the groups terr. so it may just ignore my calling, or it may take the long way around the group to get to the rabbit so that's why I also sit little longer on a stand, you just never know. Also, once I know where a group is I may just stay back aways and work the fridges and try get one at a time to come rather than whole group and this is where a louder call also comes into play. I don't know how far a coyote can hear or how close I need to be for one to come so it's kind of a trial-and-error thing and I just start farther out and work my way closer to group or circle them but at farther distance. After a while you sort of get the feel for it.
as for being too loud go look at some of the U-tube vid.s or F-P vid.s you'll see coyotes run right up and stick the face right into a E-caller. In person I have never had that happen but then again I don't let them get that close.
Last year I bought my nephew a thermal, so we went out first night he had it and set up calling across a semi open creek bottom towards a feed lot where coyotes been coming in to feed on a dead cow. It wasn't even five minutes and we had five coyotes come out of the grove by the feed lot and they circled a little to get down wind but stopped before crossing the creek so scent wise, we were still good. I kept calling to them with a few pauses but the dam female in the group wouldn't let the others come to the call. She would bark at them and at times run over and cut them off to turn them back. Little while later another coyote comes running over from next section and crossed the road on their side of the creek. So I tried to call this one in and gave it some different sounds and it started to come. In mean time the female and I believe alpha male run down to this single coyote and start to whoop its ass and got it turned back and then it just ran off back in direction from which it came.
Not sure if this coyote was part of the group or just a loner from another group and why the two alphas got so aggressive with it to start. So it can be a draw back if terr. lines are enforced. Not 100% on this one. I did come back the next night since the lone coyote seemed so egar to come in and just set up farther away from the group and sure enough we got it.
I never got mom and pop but did get two of the kids at a later date.
I'll leave the politics to you old guys as I'm having too much fun with the coyotes to even care. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 29, 2024 09:25 PM
I just logged off here and went over to Facebook. There is a site called Night vision and thermal hunting Vid.s.
One of the law enforcement guys put up a video of a coyote standing about 100 feet from the car and the guy turns his siren on and the coyote just sits down and howls back at them. Another example of loud volume doesn't matter.
Link for those that have facebook;https://www.facebook.com/groups/746087865723311/permalink/2229312224067527/
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 29, 2024 09:46 PM
I was the first on my block so to speak, to get my hands on a WT caller, the first one Big mouth Bill came out with. That fucking thing weighed in at 17 pounds and change, set up like a backpack, gawd I toted that thing many miles.
Bought it online off some guy on one of the few boards out there back in 1998 or 99...can't remember? Going price for a new one was north of a thousand bucks, think I gave the guy $200, sold it a year or two later for $600, one of the few times Ive garnered a profit off a hunting related product or firearm.
Leonard, do you remember that first hunting board, simple text, no graphics, just writing?.....campfire cafe or some damned name?
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 29, 2024 10:17 PM
Yeah I remember them. Really wanted to buy one back then. At the time I had a Lohman ecaller that was a copy of the Johnny Stewart. I Had heard how a few government trappers around here had them and really liked them. But there was no way I could afford one back then. You are right seems like they were $1000.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 29, 2024 11:28 PM
Just think? He's talking a thousand bucks before Bidenflation, so that might be $1,500 nowadays? No, I meant $2,500, more like it.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I don't know of any Message Boards, offhand? Before The ShadeTree?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 01, 2024 01:18 AM
Yeah Scott H. and Randy Shaw both had one of the first models and Randy Roede was using the newer 2030. You right Vic. that was a lot of caller to be dragging around. Now days its just a TOA speaker and remote.
Price now on them is affordable and cheaper than the F-P x-24 minus the MFK sounds.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted March 02, 2024 11:12 AM
quote:
The distance over which a gunshot can be heard depends on several factors, including the type of firearm, the ammunition used, the environment, and an individual’s hearing ability. However, as a general guideline:
A gunshot can often be heard from up to a mile away1.
The range for hearing a gunshot can extend to 2-3 miles, depending on factors like the specific firearm and the surrounding environment23.
The sound of a gunshot can vary in intensity, ranging from approximately 140 to 190 decibels, which is extremely loud and can be heard at a considerable distance2.
Factors such as terrain, weather conditions, and the presence of structures can also impact how far the sound of a gunshot carries
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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