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Author
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Topic: Interesting read on open carry..Philly
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 02:46 AM
quote:
§ 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.
No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
1.such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
2.such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
That's great Ken. You just proved something that all of us already knew. You gotta have a permit to carry in Philly.
quote:
In addition 49, I guess the kids prior drunk in public didn't stop the kid from getting his permit to carry. SO his prior arrest is a NON-ISSUE in reality.
It only seems to be an issue for you at this point
Yep Ken the kid's prior disorderly is a non issue pertaining to his carry permit. That is a good thing for PA carry laws actually. What it IS though is part of his history, and FACT, which is more than the speculation that has been posted here. You can do what you like with the guys history. But if you do, don't forget to mention that he had prior dealings with PPD, and skipped court resulting in a warrant for his arrest. Do you think that fact is an issue only for me?
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 02:49 AM
quote:
We should all remember the kid telling the first cop you can open carry in Philly and the cop shouted back NO YOU CAN'T.
Another revelation by you Ken. I have said from minute 1 the cops could have handled this better. I said that if I were reviewing this contact I would be having a talk with them. Go back and research my posts if you need proof.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 02:56 AM
quote:
I guess a jury will have to decide if it's ok to refuse to accept written State law or your excused for not being up to speed on something as simple as this particular open carry law.
Or a judge since the guy was charged with misdemeanors.
It sounds like you are being a little mitigating here Ken. Are you starting to finally realize there are two sides of the story, and although the cops mishandled the incident they may have not been ALL wrong under the color of the law? I am glad you finally looked at the good faith doctrine.
Good job. Now maybe we getting somewhere.
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 23, 2011 05:14 AM
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Big deal Fred.
The drunk charge is part of his history.
His open carry interactions with police are part of his history.
Now his skipping on court is part of his history.
These are FACTS and not opinions, and not made up stuff like the libtards do.
You can't dispute the facts. Shall I not post any more facts? Will that make everyone here happy?
I can sigh in disgust too my friend.
I'm not disputing those facts at all.
I was trying to illustrate that condemning a 21yr kid for a D&D charge is like comdemning the sky for being blue.
So, what if the kid WAS a 'turd'?
Does that mean police can infringe on his rights?
And even if we WAS a 'turd', in no way does that exhonorate the actions of those cops.
NO way, NO how...
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 23, 2011 05:50 AM
"just because it was legal doesn't make it the smartest thing to do.
The law says I can speed in order to catch law violators. But I don't always do it because it isn't always the smartest thing to do (considering road, traffic, weather conditions)."
So can they pull you over and arrest you for speeding? No they can't because it's legal and left up to your dicrepency. Same as Junior, it was left up to his discrepency to open carry or not, he broke no law and the cops were wrong from the start all the way to the end. The city will pay and I can on;y hope the individual officers can be named in the following law suit.
And you think we are proving your point? Wow!
Tim, in Oklahoma, we can't even have one drink while carrying, nor can we enter a bar while doing so.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted May 23, 2011 07:31 AM
No 49, not mitigating ANYTHING the cops did especially since they screwed with the kid 3 times in totality.
I won't mitigate STUPID because you can't. NEVER have.
YOU seem to side step that issue because THAT issue really compounds the problem.
The cops are pissed because the kid played hardball with them so after the first time of being made to look the fool, the cops retaliated 2 more times.
I can say that because I have seen it and lost count on the number of times it's happened.
A clear lack of professional conduct, but it appears such conduct is defended by their department. Those are departments that seem to still be operating in the dark age.
Sounds like police management might be just as stupid as the street cops. I sure hope Interal Affairs didn't just tell the kid to shut the fuck up.
I BET one or more of those cops do have some prior complaints for such conduct in their files. I DO NOT know for sure, but I bet they do.
What does the Department spokesman have to say to the press, they believe the kid is looking for trouble because he is carrying a tape recorder and not wearing a coat when he walks down the street carrying his gun. WOW that's a awesome argument. And I say SO to that.
ONLY a fool would fall into that trap of contacting a citizen who has made it obvious that is exactly what they are going to do. It does not matter whether cops like it or not, NO violations of the law.
Retaliating against ANYONE under the color of authority when a citizen has exercised their rights under the law, pays out big bucks in civil court.
But you seem to be under the impression that because the kid has a drunk in public and failure to appear that might be the cops saving grace. I can assure our readers it WON'T.
With the obvious mentality of the Philly cops I bet the City pays out more than their share of funds to make lawsuits for stupid go away.
I bet some of those open carry advocates will go out and buy tape recorders too. Sounds like Philly set the stage for a show down.
Not everyone is afraid to take the cops to task. Experienced and SMART cops ALWAYS keep that in mind in 2011 and should have learned by paying attention and learning from others mistakes long before 2011.
THERE is no good faith doctrine that will help one after being STUPID 3 times.
My posting of the carry law in Philly was done because Buker asked about it. Your comments that followed were unwarranted.
Even though it's the internet, I won't go there and say it sounds like your being a SMART ASS at this point. The thank you part for posting what we already know.
Regarding your comments on the wife of a cop who thought the kid was looking for a pay out from the city, YEA so? Looks like he might get something at this point.
Pay outs even if planned are the ONLY tool the common folks have in getting BAD COPS attention.
They get lucky from time to time when the FBI civil rights division steps in and indictes cops for their misconduct.
FACT in point would be the Rodney King case. Cops acquitted in the States criminal trial.
Federal Goverment says no, indicted on civil rights violations, 2 cops found guilty and sentenced to prison.
Should have been a wake up call for other cops to pay attention and quit beating everyone's ass after a pursuit.
Little did the public know that such a practice was done routinely and often after pursuits not only in California but every where else.
Little did the public know, but those cops were thrown under the bus so certain police managers could save their jobs in the face of public outrage.
At somepoint in Philly that could happen to these cops, get thrown under the bus so the Chief can keep the politicians happy.
Another UGLY part of police work MANY do not know about.
HERE is a question for you 49. HOW many cops have you arrested in your 22 year career? HOW many summons have you issued to fellow cops?
How many times have YOU reported misconduct to your Captain or Internal Affairs?
YOU said your an honest cop, what is your honest answer.
Why do I ask, based on your commentary in this thread thus far.
[ May 23, 2011, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Ken ]
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted May 23, 2011 07:48 AM
JD and others don't know how to ask the tuff questions because they were not cops.
I do know what to ask and where to look for dirt.
You can ask the Sheriff of my County. That is why I survived working with crooks for 20 years.
KNOWING the game and having the balls to play it all the way!!!! From busting knuckles to launching led. Better than the movie Serprico.
So let's run this thread like JD said for 50 pages and BRIDGE the gap for our citizen readers. Let's take this thread to a new level of REALLY talking about what goes on in cop work.
Of course only with LB's permission, it is his house?
[ May 23, 2011, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Ken ]
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted May 23, 2011 07:49 AM
Tom......That's a nice Bass.....just noticed it.......Maybe LB will start a sister site called Bassmasters.....oh wait.......never mind.
I never could master a bait caster, I'm kinda fond of those damn high dollar Pflueger spinning reels.....kayak fishing small waters for bass has proven to be very productive for me........I like the magic hour on a warm June evening......sneak up and flip a topwater or a trick worm into the brush......BAMMM!!!! You know how it works!
Lots of fun, my youngest daughter enjoys bass fishing from a kayak too.......give it a try sometime.
Sorry for the hijack......I know we very seldom wander off subject around here. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted May 23, 2011 08:21 AM
Damn....12 pages since I left. Through the weekend several things have transpired....
First, my daughter graduated hs..
Second, Joplin did get devistated by a tornado...so far 89 dead, and I got caught in one in Grove.
Third, it is still an 'Us and Them' mentality. The fact that it would be more logical to carry concelled is mute. It was legal to carry open, and our 'hero' chose to do so, and was properly liscensed.
It is obvious that the PPD has a hard on for junior and his crusade. This is the part that bothers me most, and possibly many members here. Alot of LE demonstrate in their behavior their feeling of being 'more equal'.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted May 23, 2011 08:28 AM
Here JD...a little help hijacking the thread. Not a kayak, but still on the water. Just a simple old zebco Tom....lol.
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 08:41 AM
Good looking bunch you have there G.
They are calling for more stong storms here this afternoon. Keep an eye on the sky.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 23, 2011 08:54 AM
Good times Geordie!
JD I have a few Pfleuger spinning reels too, like em pretty well. Kayaking down small rivers sounds fun. We used to float the Glover river here in tubes and fly rods, still my favorite of all. Small mouth fight!
Hi-jacking? Might as well, the issue will never be resolved (us vs them) and 49, even though he's a nice guy and all, is proof enough for me.
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
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posted May 23, 2011 08:58 AM
Bad ones going on here now Kelly. You all get any rain yesterday?
quote:
Hi-jacking? Might as well, the issue will never be resolved (us vs them) and 49, even though he's a nice guy and all, is proof enough for me
Kinda thinking the same way.
[ May 23, 2011, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 09:08 AM
Missed us here yesterday, was just to the east. We need a good 3 day soaker...I know yall have just about had all you can stand and then some.
They were already cutting wheat in some spots last week. What little there is of it.
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 23, 2011 10:07 AM
We had one touch down here Saturday evening while I was cleaning fish. It was just a couple miles from the shop and when I went to check on it afterwards, it was a traffic jam of official storm spotters.
The highlight though was that armored tornado chasing tank like car you see on the weather channel and such, spent the night here Saturday night.
We're about caught up on our rain but the grass is still short. Hay season should be kicking off but not even close.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 23, 2011 10:12 AM
I'm thinking of making this Forum ALL OKIE ALL THE TIME. JD is the first casualty.
49, now look. We all love ya. But, could you firm up your position? Not so much about "advice for turds" or mother hen for Philadelphia PD.
The facts. Where do you stand on the facts of the case? This kid's prior is not an issue, and you know it.
Do you think the police department has a hard on for the kid? I'm baffled, because the tape seems to indicate that the officers had total ignorance of any prior knowledge. That would clear them of any harassment charges, so far as intentionally going after a guy that insists on rattling their cage with open carry.
Just how far can you support their (LE) actions? 90%, 10%, 50/50? Is the turd culpable, 90%, 10%, 50/50?
Your argument is getting a little murky for me to follow because I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Please? El Bee
edit: Geordie, great looking kids. That younger one with the bass, she is a cutie, I think we have seen her in the snow, before?
[ May 23, 2011, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted May 23, 2011 10:54 AM
Nice pics Gordie, I'll try and load a few from my phone later to post.
Tom, I meant floating and fishing small lakes, sandpits and such.....the rivers around here are tough to fish for bass and the like, not impossible. But the sandpits are a gold mine for bass.
A couple years ago I floated with Andy and his family on one of those nice Ozark rivers with the clear water and root wads everywhere and we caught bass for 2 days straight......cleaned them, washed them, dropped them in the fryer along with some zuchini(sp) and a few other goodies right there on the river bank........man that was good food and a good time!! Large mouth, small mouth and rocks(goggle eyes to you hillbilly types) and a couple crappie if I remember right. I sure wish we had streams like that close by.
You guys keep an eye on the sky today.
[ May 23, 2011, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: JD ]
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:05 AM
quote:
So, what if the kid WAS a 'turd'?
Does that mean police can infringe on his rights?
And even if we WAS a 'turd', in no way does that exhonorate the actions of those cops.
NO way, NO how...
Answer:
a) No.
b) Correct. Though the cops were not completely wrong in their actions.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:07 AM
quote:
So can they pull you over and arrest you for speeding? No they can't because it's legal and left up to your dicrepency. Same as Junior, it was left up to his discrepency to open carry or not, he broke no law and the cops were wrong from the start all the way to the end. The city will pay and I can on;y hope the individual officers can be named in the following law suit.
The cops' actions were wrong in some ways I agree. Though they were not wrong in all aspects.
[ May 23, 2011, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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tlbradford
Rimfires are MAGIC on COYOTES! If you do your part
Member # 1232
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posted May 23, 2011 11:11 AM
Since were sharing weekend photos. Here is what I ended photographing Saturday night.
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"Dan Carey ain't that special" - LB
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:21 AM
quote:
But you seem to be under the impression that because the kid has a drunk in public and failure to appear that might be the cops saving grace. I can assure our readers it WON'T.
Wrong. There you go putting words in my mouth again.
quote:
THERE is no good faith doctrine that will help one after being STUPID 3 times.
Wrong again. You should know as a former cop that each case heard is independent of one another in court. Besides, we don't have the details of the other two cases.
quote:
My posting of the carry law in Philly was done because Buker asked about it. Your comments that followed were unwarranted
They most certainly are warranted. Because you said this:
quote:
So I'm even more pissed than I was before after reading this specific law.
The "specific law" is the same as we have been saying all along.
quote:
Even though it's the internet, I won't go there and say it sounds like your being a SMART ASS at this point. The thank you part for posting what we already know
It's only in response to the way I am being treated here by some of the members, including you, who continues to put words in my mouth. But I will apologize if I came off as a smartass.
quote:
HERE is a question for you 49. HOW many cops have you arrested in your 22 year career? HOW many summons have you issued to fellow cops?
How many times have YOU reported misconduct to your Captain or Internal Affairs?
YOU said your an honest cop, what is your honest answer.
My answer is none to the first two, and three times to the third. How's that for honest?
[ May 23, 2011, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:25 AM
quote:
KNOWING the game and having the balls to play it all the way!!!! From busting knuckles to launching led. Better than the movie Serprico.
Really Ken?
[ May 23, 2011, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:28 AM
quote:
Third, it is still an 'Us and Them' mentality. The fact that it would be more logical to carry concelled is mute. It was legal to carry open, and our 'hero' chose to do so, and was properly liscensed.
It is obvious that the PPD has a hard on for junior and his crusade. This is the part that bothers me most, and possibly many members here. Alot of LE demonstrate in their behavior their feeling of being 'more equal'
You are entitled to ypour opinion CrossJ, and I have no problem with that.
Now I must compliment you on your beautiful family, since you posted pictures.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
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posted May 23, 2011 11:47 AM
quote:
49, now look. We all love ya. But, could you firm up your position? Not so much about "advice for turds" or mother hen for Philadelphia PD.
The facts. Where do you stand on the facts of the case? This kid's prior is not an issue, and you know it.
Do you think the police department has a hard on for the kid? I'm baffled, because the tape seems to indicate that the officers had total ignorance of any prior knowledge. That would clear them of any harassment charges, so far as intentionally going after a guy that insists on rattling their cage with open carry.
Just how far can you support their (LE) actions? 90%, 10%, 50/50? Is the turd culpable, 90%, 10%, 50/50?
Your argument is getting a little murky for me to follow because I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
Leonard, I have stated my position numerous times, but it has become murky because some here put words in my mouth.
These incidents often have a lot of grey areas in them. There is not always black and white. This incident is a prime example.
The cops made mistakes in their handling of this open carry guy. I haven't disputed that. But we must remember, the cops, although embarrassed, still may have been operating under the color of the law, due to being able to check for a permit, and under the good faith doctrine I have been speaking of. If the police can articuate to a judge why they felt the need to place the subject on his knees, then this portion of their conduct will be deemed to be legal. As far as percentages, I think there is a very low percent (10%) probability since you asked for a number, that the subject will be convicted because I don't believe the charges are 100% applicable. I think an obstruction charge would have been more applicable to this case. Though, as I have stated several times, I was not present and do not have all the facts. I don't think the turd is culpable on what they charged him with.
Attitude and demeanor, as I have said, is a problem for the cops. I do believe they had a right to check for the guy's permit, although I also agree they did it in the wrong manner.
Like I said, there are plenty of grey areas here. The outcome of this court case will most likely determine the future of open carry in Philadelphia, which as Tom said is what the guy wanted in the first place. Along with making trouble for the cops and bringing attention upon himself (my opinion and not tom's).
Edit: By the way, I don't think Philly PD has a hard on for the kid. Well, maybe they do now, but not when this incident took place. As you have said, the tape indicates there was no prior knowledge, and PPD is a big department, thus word doesn't get around too quick.
[ May 23, 2011, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted May 23, 2011 12:44 PM
22 years as a cop in NEW JERSEY and you NEVER arrested another cop, NEVER wrote a ticket, and only twice had to go to Internal Affairs or your Captain to report misconduct????
WTF you been hiding behind a freakin desk or driving the Chief around all these years? Or do you really work in public relations?
FREAKIN NEW JERSEY one of the hot beds in our history for the MOB and Police Corruption and ONLY TWICE reporting misconduct.
BULLSHIT 49, YOU HAD your BLINDERS on for 22 years pal. THANK YOU for your honesty.
Your commentary here pretty much confirms that.
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
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