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Author
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Topic: A Few Observations
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Bofire
READ MY LIPS!
Member # 221
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posted October 05, 2009 06:28 PM
Seen the doc, I am scheduled for surgery 11/5. If ya aint doing anything special give me a quick thought OK?
Carl
Posts: 322 | From: Wild West | Registered: Jul 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 05, 2009 07:08 PM
Will keep you in my thoughts carl.
Andy I saw the same post. Scared me off too. LOL. I think it would save a lot of grief if I just stayed clear of that board and organization.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted October 05, 2009 08:25 PM
Hey Q! Welcome back..
From what i've gathered the NPHA is trying to do what our state trapper org. have been trying to do for years to preserve the sport, educate people, and make law changes that we would benifit from. Not once have they mentioned fur and how a valueble resource it is or made any plans to help promote the fur industries.. If its all about just haveing a bunch of contests and lineing there pockets then they can have it..
[ October 05, 2009, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 05, 2009 09:44 PM
The last thing in the world I want is to recruit more coyote hunters or more competitions. Why would any coyote hunter want to create more competition for himself? I get shut off or put off of several thousand acres every year because of tournament hunters.
I am not pimping anything and have no intentions of trying to cash in on the "sport" so it is really not in my best interest to get everyone involved.
I am not sure that making tournaments the main focus of an organization is a wise idea anyway. To john Q public a competition hunt is nothing more than a killing contest. It sounds like a PR nightmare to me?
I don't have anything against competition hunts but we have plenty already.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 05, 2009 10:23 PM
Quinton, I catch a lot of flack from people always passing judgement like why I don't take the new guys out and give back. But most of these guys want something for nothing and lack commitment. They expect and demand to know everything for nothing. I never made a dime on hunting predators, even selling cats, it just paid my expenses.
I don't want a new caller under every bush. I don't like all the popularity, I don't need the competition.
I do what I can, more than most, I might add, but I really prefer mixing with and talking to the guys that have the fever. It don't take me long to spot the fever.
Nope, popularity is not good for coyote hunting, and at this point, neither is contests. When we out here were the only ones running contest and nobody knew anything, it didn't matter. Now, I think you are right, it does impact, and substantially.
Good hunting. LB
[ October 06, 2009, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
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Member # 33
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posted October 05, 2009 11:34 PM
I am glad I am not the only one that feels that way Leonard. I guess predator hunting means different things to different people. For me, for many years it was about individualism. I hunted alone for the most part all of the time. Partly because I liked the alone time and partly because I didn't want to share my areas or fur with anyone else. LOL
I have never really made a killing on the fur either but it pays my way and it is a labor of love.
Mainstreaming competition hunts is just another platform to expand and grow the "sport" for the industry. Foxpro I see now is trying to recruit top callers around the country to represent their products in this growing trend of competition hunting. More companies will surly follow suit.
This arena like any other is industry driven. The only individuals that are truly interested in it's expansion are those who stand to profit from it or intend to gain notoriety by being part of it. Or both?
It is just a natural progression I guess. People are socially oriented so in todays structured society it was simply a matter of time before something like this popped on to the scene.
Predator hunting is changing fast. It's either lead, follow or get out of the way. I think I will just get out of the way for now and just enjoy it for what it is while it lasts.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted October 06, 2009 06:05 AM
I remember as a kid, less than 10 years old, out coyote hunting in Nevada with my Dad, and my Dad telling me that I better get it while the getting was good, because I was going to live to see the end of it.
Predator hunting as I practice it, and love it, has been disapearing from right before my eyes for a long time now. Actually, predator hunting the way I "used" to practice it, has been dead for quite a few years already. But there is a long line of guys, and the line is still growing, that are basically just waiting their turn, for a chance to view the bloated corpse of how I and I think a lot of us "used" to hunt predators. Few of them will ever even know that all they are getting is the dead remains.
But even the way I hunt now, and have been hunting for maybe ten years or so, which has had to change from the way I "used to", is disapearing. Faster and faster. Noticeable changes. Every year. There isn't even the slightest possibility that my Son will grow up to have any opportunity to enjoy the particular style of public land predator hunting that I'm so in love with. If I live another 20 years, I'll live long enough to see it go completely away myself. Hell, in just 10 more years, it's not going to be much like it is now, let alone how it was just 10 years ago.
Can't stop progress. I guess... Still sucks though.
From where I sit, the two worst things that could happen to "my" predator hunting world, in order, are more hunters and more or bigger contests.
I don't take new guys out.
I don't do contests.
So I'm selfish. Sue me...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted October 06, 2009 08:53 AM
TA,
I went into this thing with the hopes that they would become a powerful political voice for predator calling. As of this time I have been told that that will not be the case.
I dont understand why. After being asked by a member who was on board with this thing, I posted on another board who were being recruted, and was soundly attacked by one of the Officers for doing so. A real "dressing down" that I thought I did not deserve.
So.....I have resigned from the Organization, do not want anything to do with them now or in the future.
It is my firm belief I was asked to be on board for name recognition only, as I was never told by anyone exactly what my job was, what I could or couldnt say, or post, and i was lead to believe there would be a strong political front. I feel i have been used. AND NEVER given a chance to explain why I posted what I did.
This is not the kind of Organization I need.
A word to the wise......
keep an eye out for who will be brought on board. Odds are they will have little to nothing to do with predator calling.
As far as contest hunts go, whatever trips your trigger. They just are not my cup of tea. I only wanted to see a political org that would stand up to the coming onslaught that calling is going to get in the future. As far as I am concerned, you can make your own judgements about the NPHA.
I want nothing to do with them.
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 06, 2009 08:56 AM
You are right DAA. I agree with you. It sure isn't like it use to be and it will never be like that again. I remember my dad telling me about deer hunting. He said when you ask a rancher to hunt they would just say get after it or "kill'em all."
Now days if you want to hunt deer you need to be close friends with a rancher or have your check book handy.
Predator hunting may not take exactly the same path as deer hunting has but one truth remains the same. The more money and more interest and more competition this industry generates the more our individual opportunities will dry up.
Call me greedy or what you want but I sure liked it the way it use to be.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Q-Wagoner
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Member # 33
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posted October 06, 2009 09:05 AM
I had a feeling that may have been why you jumped ship Steve. There are plenty of organizations out there that are designed and organized to fight hard for us as hunters and gun owners. I will focus my money and support where it really counts.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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skoal
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1492
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posted October 06, 2009 09:41 AM
Steve said:
A word to the wise......
keep an eye out for who will be brought on board. Odds are they will have little to nothing to do with predator calling.
I will be watching! sounds more like B.A.S.S.
Than R.M.E.F.if thats the case who needs it.
Posts: 251 | From: desert s.w. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 06, 2009 09:52 AM
As far as the NPHA, I intend to stay noncommital, (and neutral) as a favor to some friends that are involved. No, I don't want it to fail, and yes, it beats PM which is not saying a lot.
You know, forty dollars hardly buys a decent steak, these days, it ain't the money, but the money still sticks in my throat.
I don't get it? The things we have been reading about the confidentiality issues, and the private forums, and the (somewhat) weird TOS, lack of responses to specific questions, etc. It's starting to build up, but I withhold judgement. It's just a feeling. Please spit it out; where is this train headed and why should I care?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted October 06, 2009 10:20 AM
Good post guys...
I agree 100% Q and DAA.
I've been saying the same thing now for the past few years. Lots of new guys coming along now for the sole intent of being somebody . Actually enjoying a nice hunt in the hills is the furthest thing on their mind. Rushing home to post a pic of their blown up summer coyote on 4 or 5 different sites better suites their need on becoming somebody
As I said, I've really seen a change the last 4 years or so. For a long time or at least throughout the 80's it seemed somewhat unusual to see a magazine article on predator hunting...nowadays you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a self appointed pro staff member.
BTW...here's an old article from 1964. How it used to be done...I'm sure all the Calif. guys will know right where it is.
Big Bores For Bobcats
Posts: 53 | From: socal | Registered: Jan 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted October 06, 2009 10:23 AM
Thanks Steve for clearing a few things up..
From meeting you many times and talking to you in person i know they lost a good man to have on there side..
quote:
I went into this thing with the hopes that they would become a powerful political voice for predator calling. As of this time I have been told that that will not be the case
If this is true then what is there plans???
To just promote contest hunting!!!
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 06, 2009 10:35 AM
There are several people involved with it that I highly respect so I really haven't said much until now "but!". It will all come out in the wash.
I don't like censorship period. If some one has something to say they should be allowed to voice there concerns. If they are being a jackass then so be it. Leave it up so everyone can see there a jackass.
If you start banning people or censoring what they say just because you don't agree with them there will be trouble. At first glance the new bbs look like the land of the banned.
I don't mean to be disrespectful to those involved but if it is going to impact my livelihood then I am going to voice my opinion. Calling up or writing the administration is pointless. I know where they stand. I think if you are going to talk about something then talk. Air it out on the boards and let the chips fall where they may.
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Interesting link, tawnoper. BTW, is it possible I might know you?
I probably have that issue of Guns And Ammo in the garage? Did you see the ad for a baby Browning 25ACP for $32?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted October 06, 2009 10:45 AM
Steve, I hate to correspond to you in this manor but I see no replies from you privately. I mean no disrespect to you but it’s possible that you’ll find any rebuttal I make to be offensive. I’d never attempt to match merits or experience with you, and I hope my post isn’t considered such.
As you know, you’ve been a great influence in my success and drive as a predator caller and as an advocate for trapping and hunting rights in Indiana. Having only known you for a little less than 10 years I feel you’ve made a considerable impact on my life in many ways. You’ve generously shared advice, taken me hunting and even welcomed me into your home; I hope I have never appeared to be anything but appreciative and respectful to you and your family.
Given my background with you, and the numerous mutual friends we share who hold you in high regard, I personally placed your name into the ring for an advisory position with the NPHA. Plain and simple, our relationship and history with one another are why you were asked to assist us in an advisory capacity. You obviously hold great name recognition in the predator calling world and I believe that is a clear reciprocation of the above stated credentials. Given that your position was an advisory position, there was little benefit to any name recognition you may have. I believe this is a major point of confusion for you, and I’m willing to presume it is my fault.
Your position with the NPHA was not intended to be a front-line, trail-blazing spearhead and widely-acknowledged capacity. As I unsuccessfully attempted to explain to you, we didn’t want you taking the internet-heat for NPHA (we knew it was inevitable). This continued battle would not serve you well, it would not serve the organization well, and it would distract from the effectiveness of your position as an advisor.
The NPHA made no mentioning of your name, or others, anywhere. You made the decision to announce your involvement, you opened up dialogue in public forums, and you eventually even stated your unofficial title as well as those of 3 others. The NPHA had numerous reasons to keep advisors confidential, not the least of which was to prevent “Throwing them under the bus” or “Using their name”. The NPHA has tried to remain sensitive and cautious to unforeseen issues that may arise from our actions. You, your personal life and your good name were all taken into constant consideration during your involvement with the National Predator Hunters Association.
As for your comments about not knowing a job description, what you could/couldn’t share publicly and our efforts to become an advocate for hunters rights… I have reviewed our correspondence thoroughly and I’m sorry to say that I disagree. If you need this information re-sent to you, please just ask.
As I’ve told you a handful of times, I regret that I was out of town and unavailable as your resignation was handed in. After returning to civilization and reviewing the details, you admitted making a mistake and you quickly resigned from your unofficial position within hours of acknowledging such. Unfortunately the NPHA Board (minus-me) was unable to prevent you from making a mistake, or resigning, and that course of events cannot be undone. I notice you take issue with “one officer” but please notice he repeatedly spoke and signed on behalf of the BOD (minus-me).
Steve, I have spent many sleepless nights trying to develop the groundwork for an advocacy (not advisory) position in which I believe you could serve the NPHA in a great capacity. I had no way of knowing that you wanted “nothing to do with this organization” as you just stated above. Our last conversations seemed to reflect remorse for the resignation situation but ambition and excitement for the opportunities that lay ahead. I will continue working toward these lofty goals held by the National Predator Hunters Association, if you ever find an interest in supporting them again I hope you’ll contact me immediately.
To others, I’m sure we all agree that I couldn’t begin to cover all the misconceptions and conspiracy theories that consume this thread and others. The National Predator Hunters Association has no ambition to GROW the wildly popular sport of predator calling. I see a lot of assumptions and conjecture about what NPHA is or will be, and perhaps rightfully so. I simply ask, on behalf of the organization, that you go to the source for information. A lot of these comments about contests and their role in NPHA’s future are completely and entirely false. Any public event that drawls predator callers together can be a great tool for membership recruitment. Membership recruitment is obviously a primary goal of any fledgling organization like NPHA. Any information floating around the internet about NPHA’s involvement in hunting contests above and beyond the context of member recruitment and fun activities for our membership is likely assumption and conjecture.
PS: Q, you seem to have a misunderstanding of a discussion forum and a national organization. I have yet to find the discussion forum for NRA, RMEF, NWTF or DU where members and officers battle out the inner-workings of their organization. If you have forum issues, I believe you'll find the forum administrators are happy to discuss it there. If you have organizational issues/questions, please feel free to contact the proper folks to have them addressed.
Jason R. Bruce
NPHA President
1-877-663-4695
JasonRBruce@TheNPHA.com
(Edit: Fixed the phone number)
[ October 06, 2009, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Jrbhunter ]
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted October 06, 2009 11:23 AM
"I see no replies from you privately."
I cant reply if I wasnt contacted first.
I have no beef with you Jason. None what so ever.
But your Treas. is another story. the guy is a jerk, and needs some people skills in the worst way.
Here is what you sent me:
*A "Governing Member" shall serve a life term unless otherwise determined by resignation or a vote of the other Governing Members. There are 4 Governing Members currently and shall be no more than 10.
You told me that the 4 were myself and 3 others. then you sent me this:
You'll have a PDF press release in your inbox on Tuesday morning; feel free to share it with the world. It's a fair assesment of where we are, and where we're going, without legal/political/complicated implications. Please allow us, as an organization, to deliver our message the way we want too... in our court... on our timeframe. Call me anytime day or night with questions; I am working hard to get your answers ironed out.
I shared it with the world, and was scourged for doing so!
So I am done!
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted October 06, 2009 11:34 AM
Steve, thanks for the reply.
Your posting of my email to you sums things up fairly well.
You'll have a PDF press release in your inbox on Tuesday morning; feel free to share it with the world. It's a fair assesment of where we are, and where we're going, without legal/political/complicated implications. Please allow us, as an organization, to deliver our message the way we want too... in our court... on our timeframe. Call me anytime day or night with questions; I am working hard to get your answers ironed out.
Of course given the chaotic situation of travel and lack of communication, there was no "PDF on Tuesday" and therein lies the rub.
I am greatly relieved to see you hold no anymosity toward me over this unfortunate series of events Steve. I apologize for any mistakes or oversight on my part that may have contributed to your conflict with our treasurer. I am certain many of you will find the NPHA an organization worthy of your support in the future. Some of you will not.
Thanks for your time;
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted October 06, 2009 12:34 PM
As Cher would say, "and the beat goes on".
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted October 06, 2009 02:37 PM
okay folks, sing along; drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain, lauddie lauddie dee, lauddie lauddie dah and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.....
Looks like you need an Information Czar, Jason?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Steve Craig
Lacks Opposable Thumbs/what's up with that?
Member # 12
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posted October 06, 2009 02:47 PM
Had a long post all typed out, but decided against it....
It has been made clear that the NPHA doesnt need or want me, and that is fine.
It is their loss.
I have better things to do than argue the merits of this Organization.
Again.....I hold no anamosity toward you Jason.
I'll get over the raw deal I was given, and will move on.
No big deal in the scheme of life.
We all will probably die just in time anyway.
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Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction. - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 442 | From: Cottonwood,Az, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Jrbhunter
PAYS ATTENsION TO deTAIL
Member # 459
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posted October 06, 2009 04:12 PM
Leonard, I have a resume here from a guy named William Martz that applied for that position. He put you down as a reference? Any chance he'll pass a drug test? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
In all seriousness, we're trying to keep our www.TheNPHA.com homepage as informative and user-friendly as possible. The vast majority of our NPHA members are not active on discussion forums so the homepage, newsletters and direct interaction with them will remain our primary source of communication. Given the clear means by which information is conveyed to members, and questions may be asked to staff, I'm not sure the Czar is justified just yet.
Posts: 615 | From: Indiana | Registered: Dec 2004
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted October 06, 2009 06:08 PM
Jrb, I'm just a simple old hillbilly but I'll give you a hint.
None of the shit you posted above reads very well.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Q-Wagoner
FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Member # 33
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posted October 06, 2009 07:21 PM
JRB,I was given a flyer at the Nebraska Fur Harvesters convention and in the mission statement its self it mentions organized events. In the print below the mission statement it says that the NPHA will be hosting DOZENS of events. To clarify what events meant I visited the web sight and all the events you had listed were competition hunts I beleve? Most were listed as brand new events being created by the NPHA. There is even an online contest you guys are starting right now.
I don't think it is unreasonable to assume after reading the flyer and the web sight that the organization is getting geared up to sanction and create as many competition hunts as possible is it?
Other than window decals carring cards, members forums and maybe a raffle or two what else is there to the organization that you can't be apart of for free online?
Good hunting.
Q,
Posts: 617 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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