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Author
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Topic: A Cop's Perspective
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 09:43 AM
As a result of threads on the Arizona SWAT shooting, this is another LEO's perspective on the responses submitted. I thought this was interesting::
quote:
1. If more than one officer shows up to serve a warrant it is automatically a swat team.
2. If forced entry is made after a knock and announce it automatically negates the knock and announce and becomes a "no knock" warrant.
3. The same posters that shout, "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that routinely adjudicate officers guilty of various crimes based sorely on poorly written and often inaccurate news articles.
4. Facts are irrelevant, all that really matters is how you feel about something.
5. When the media does stories on guns, gun owners, etc they are stupid, biased and have an agenda.
When they do a story about police actions they are an authoritative source and the gospel truth.
__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.
[ June 11, 2011, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 11, 2011 10:04 AM
Yes, that would be one side of things. There are always two sides to everything.
The deal is the concept. There are millions of honest tax paying citizens. There is a criminal element.
I hope the police can differentiate, when necessary. That's all anybody can hope for.
But, people are not comfortable with Gestapo police behavior. I do not know how to solve the problem, but there has to be some consideration for those of us that have never had any interaction with lethal force.
I mean, these SWAT teams with the knee pads and body armor, helmets and three or four weapons apiece; they shouldn't be the one's with the hair trigger against a man in his underwear.
gh/lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 10:07 AM
A man in his underwear yes...also crouched down the hall with an AR-15.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 11, 2011 10:09 AM
Yes, of course! Stupid of me to think a man has the right to defend his castle from invaders.
gh/lb
edit: I don't see how you are going to win this one, 30 seconds and 71 rounds down the hallway?
[ June 11, 2011, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 10:17 AM
I am not trying to win anything Leonard. The judicial system can settle this one once the remainder of the facts come out.
I think the officer above has made some valid points regarding the attitudes of others. I think he is remarking on the biased attitudes of some, and I think his remarks are accurate as to the attitudes having been expressed here at Huntmasters. His remarks are on the money, really.
I think I have been more objective than most here concerning this incident.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
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posted June 11, 2011 11:07 AM
quote:
I think his remarks are accurate as to the attitudes having been expressed here at Huntmasters.
I disagree with you 49
quote:
1. If more than one officer shows up to serve a warrant it is automatically a swat team.
I believe it was a swat team in this situation.
quote:
2. If forced entry is made after a knock and announce it automatically negates the knock and announce and becomes a "no knock" warrant.
I will have to re watch the video I can’t remember if they knocked or not during this? I had kinda moved on and slept since I last looked at the video.
quote:
3. The same posters that shout, "innocent until proven guilty" are the same ones that routinely adjudicate officers guilty of various crimes based sorely on poorly written and often inaccurate news articles.
I may give him some merit here on some situations as the cops breaking in the door assumed the guy was guilty of various crimes based sorely on poorly written and often inaccurate info.(Like wrong address) (guy didn’t have a job) ( Wife wasn’t supposed to be home) ETC.
quote:
4. Facts are irrelevant, all that really matters is how you feel about something.
Sounds like a donkey hee hawing. He has the same data as we have, a video and the warrant to look at. He basis his opinion on the same facts we base ours on.
I believe the majority here base their opinion on the video and warrant.
I don’t think anyone questions would you shoot someone in their underwear pointing a gun at you? But rather why was someone standing in their underwear pointing a gun at you?
I think most can agree if your door is busted in while you are sleeping you will more than likely grab a gun and 30 seconds isn’t long enough to realize what’s going on and make a rational decision. I also think we can agree if we go through a door and a guy is standing in his underwear pointing a gun at us we would shoot.
The problem I have is the chain of events that led to this..
Next time any of you go coyote hunting and catch your hunting partner dozing off on stand slip a black ski mask on and scare the hell out of him. If it scares him and he points his gun at you fill him full of lead..
[ June 11, 2011, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: CCP ]
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted June 11, 2011 11:35 AM
Ummmmm I know this is the off-season but enough with the good cop, bad cop BS and internet lawyers.. Don't they have other boards for this??? ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5613 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted June 11, 2011 11:36 AM
That makes a good point Richard.
I'm not about to try that as I'm pretty sure the outcome would not be good! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Nikonut
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DEL GUE
SECOND PLACE: Mad Bomber lookalike contest
Member # 1526
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posted June 11, 2011 11:39 AM
49
I agree with the observations of the cop you quoted. But you are wasting your time. You are Daniel in the lion's den. You won't change any of their minds, and you will draw fire. It just ain't worth it.
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"I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart." - Bear Claw
Posts: 588 | From: FL | Registered: Jul 2007
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 12:02 PM
I know it's a waste of time Del. And I know I won't change anyone's mind. Though the attitudes here are well described in this cop's post.
CCP, I will give you number one, as far as this incident goes. The officer in question was basing this remark on other internet experiences, not just this one. Mea culpa for quoting him slightly out of context.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 11, 2011 12:06 PM
49.....what you can't seem to understand is that nobody is arguing with you on the legality of what went down, from the "well written" warrant to the "knock and talk" and even killing the man dead in his underwear......WE GET IT!!! IT WAS PERFECTLY LEGAL!!!.....Legality is not the issue......over the years you guys have manipulated the laws through political means to protect YOURSELVES regardless of how barbaric you behave. Nothing illegal was done by LE according to the law....fair enough??
I've made this point before......Those Germans who are now being tried for thousands of counts of murder and other war crimes did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG....according to the laws of the third Reick and their superiors.
You may not understand how us inexperienced civilians could disagree with you and your fellow officers on this issue......here's the parting line......you have been brainwashed in the ways of rank and file.....we think as free men and don't see ANY need for a death squad to serve ANY warrant, that statement isnt meant to demean or belittle you or your usefulness it's meant to point out that LE needs to be heavily limited and not allowed to be involved in ANY way with changing laws.
My hope is that someday the people who are responsible for these death squads(swat teams) and the murders that they perpetrate are brought to full justice in full view of the public.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 12:14 PM
quote:
I've made this point before......Those Germans who are now being tried for thousands of counts of murder and other war crimes did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG....according to the laws of the third Reick and their superiors
Um...those Nazi's broke war crimes laws of the Geneva, and I believe Hague conventions. This is what they were found guilty of, and executed for.
No, I don't think I am brain washed for being objective. I am able to realize that we can all have differing opinions, no matter how wrong on someone's part. And I don't resort to name calling (remember "retards") and allegations of "brainwashing" as you have.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 12:17 PM
The fact is that (most) of you guys see only what you WANT to see. That is the point in the above quote. He has seen the same thing on other boards as I have seen here.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted June 11, 2011 12:32 PM
I see the same thing on other boards as I have seen here too.......cops who refuse to accept that citizens have a legitimate bitch about death squads and there actions.
I have not yet seen you post ANYTHING that seemed "objective" on one of these swat threads
As far as the war crimes....you can paint it however you like with your legal paintbrush but those guys are being convicted because they murdered millions of innocent people.......I refuse to let the numbers reach the millions before I start screaming....sorry bro.
Saying that you are brainwashed is not calling you names
Calling you a retard was an attempt at humor....I even used a smiley face and made another humorous reference concerning the retard comment......dont be so sensitive muchacho.
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
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CCP
Knows what it's all about
Member # 913
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posted June 11, 2011 12:50 PM
quote:
The fact is that (most) of you guys see only what you WANT to see.
This is exactly how we feel about you guys.
Boss gives me an order says paper work all good boss says kick down door and grab the guy inside boss says wrong house. OK go to next house bust down door guy has gun I shoot guy. All is good. Dayum I LOVE my job.
End of story everyone is a hero.
Update:
A still frame has been released from the helmet cam..
Now the evidence is there were more people in the house.One was in his underwear and the other well... I chick was making a run for it and the other had made a fist..
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
After seeing this new evidence I can see why they opened up..
[ June 11, 2011, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: CCP ]
Posts: 117 | From: SouthEastern united states | Registered: Jul 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted June 11, 2011 02:11 PM
Wow 49, just wow.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ken
will be missed
Member # 3065
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posted June 11, 2011 03:06 PM
quote:
49
I agree with the observations of the cop you quoted. But you are wasting your time. You are Daniel in the lion's den. You won't change any of their minds, and you will draw fire. It just ain't worth it.
Belker would have never said that Del. He would have died growling first. LOL!!
But your right though. I am sure you read some of my DEEP posting on the other issues. Little comment and I am sure some head scratching. LOL!!!
One will never win with those who have not wore the shoes of those who they speak badly of.
The nature of the beast.
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I am 5'10",an asshole 220% for sure. Former dirty deed doer for PM. Corrupt too! My name is Festus.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 11, 2011 03:15 PM
So, we are incapable of understanding the righteousness of lethal force?
You have to remember that you guys volunteered to serve the public. Personally, I don't view police work as hero work, it's necessary, and beyond that, you work for us.
I have not walked in your shoes, I have no desire but why is it that police officers are enlightened but taxpayers and citizens do not have a clue?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 03:24 PM
quote:
This is exactly how we feel about you guys.
Boss gives me an order says paper work all good boss says kick down door and grab the guy inside boss says wrong house. OK go to next house bust down door guy has gun I shoot guy. All is good. Dayum I LOVE my job.
CPP fair enough to your first comment.
To your second comment well, they hit the right house.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 03:25 PM
quote:
Wow 49, just wow.
Don't be so shocked Tom. I am just pointing out that other cops on the web see the same things I do.
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted June 11, 2011 03:33 PM
I think the shooting will be classified as justified. After All they killed the only eyewitness didn't they.
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 03:36 PM
quote:
So, we are incapable of understanding the righteousness of lethal force?
You have to remember that you guys volunteered to serve the public. Personally, I don't view police work as hero work, it's necessary, and beyond that, you work for us.
I have not walked in your shoes, I have no desire but why is it that police officers are enlightened but taxpayers and citizens do not have a clue?
No sir I never said you were incapable of understanding anything. I think some here are UNWILLING to try and see the point of view of the "other side," so to speak. Nazis, death squads, murder is what you guys see. But maybe, just maybe there were valid reasons for sending a SWAT team to assist with that warrant.
I am not looking for hero worship. I don't need it and I could care less. Now as far as taxpayers not having a clue...I don't think that. I think there are some extremely intelligent individuals on this forum. But like I said, some guys only see what they want to see. Why not be more open minded?
[ June 11, 2011, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 03:38 PM
quote:
I think the shooting will be classified as justified. After All they killed the only eyewitness didn't they.
They sure did Dan. Maybe if he would have just dropped his weapon he would be alive today.
But lets wait and see what the helmet cams show.
[ June 11, 2011, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted June 11, 2011 03:43 PM
I am not here to argue the shooting with you guys. We did that already. What I am doing is pointing out that other LEO's have seen the same attitudes as I have seen here.
Just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted June 11, 2011 03:46 PM
What ever happen to just letting the perp leave the house then go in and make youre search and then pick the guy up on the street or before he enters the house. This way he is in plane site for a easey pickup and no bystanders get hurt.
quote:
One will never win with those who have not wore the shoes of those who they speak badly of.
I've worn those shoes for a short time, can't say I liked it much or the others.. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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