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Author
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Topic: .204 Ruger?
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted September 03, 2011 07:56 PM
Got a chance to pick up a Remington VTR bolt gun, a bunch of brass and Hornady New Dimension dies for a good price from a buddy.
Heard and have read a bunch about it...have watched TRinCO put the smack down on coyotes on video with his .204 AR, but wanted to know if any of you have some other opinions about the cartridge.
I need another rifle like I need another hole in the head, but thought it would be cool to have, and the price is right.
What do y'all think?
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted September 04, 2011 01:15 PM
Apparently ya already know what I think,...run bergers and hit'em in the shoulder..That's what I think....in case there was any doubt. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 05, 2011 12:17 PM
I have never owned a 204, but believe it to be a vast improvement over the standard 223, for our purposes. That is known, <smirk> as damning with faint praise. haha
No, really. I think it has potential. I'm willing to listen.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 05, 2011 02:55 PM
I have a few 20 cals, and they are fun cartridges. They seem to hit harder than a 17 Rem and several people believe 17's are sufficient for coyotes.
Of course they can be used for chucks, prairie dogs, and what not.
I'm not a fan of the VTR? is that the one with the triangle barrel? But if ther price is good enough, and you want it, get it and give it a try.
I haven't found a better bullet than the 35 Bergers for the 204. It works great, IMO, for the recreational caller.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted September 05, 2011 03:52 PM
The only .204 i had was on an ar platform,the 35gr. bergers were the best round I found. I had a problem with fliers after 3 rounds. It was the gun not the caliber, couldnt get it right finally sold it. I still want one in a bolt gun.
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted September 05, 2011 09:12 PM
I know TR and a few others have good luck with them. but not for me. I was running the 35 gr. bergers at about 4080. Maybe I was running them too fast. Maybe my shooting sucked. Or maybe I didnt pick my shots. I dunno. But I do know I lost more coyotes with it than the 17 hmr.
If the front half of a coyote is covered with brush, I want to be able to shoot at the back half and break him down.
If there is some light brush, I want to be able to shoot through it with results.
If a coyote is running straight away and telling me he aint going to stop, I want to shoot him below where the tail meets the body and stop him.
Now Quinton had pretty good luck running the 39 grains last year. But he is a hell of a shot and did not attempt anything beyond the capability of the cartridge. That pop-gun can only do so much you know. LOL
Hell, maybe Tom is right. I shoot a larger caliber to make-up for my shortcomings. Or something like that.
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2011 07:15 AM
My grandson, Josh, who is a killing machine on everything that flies or runs, has a Browning 204. He was shooting a 32 grain Berger at some fantastic speed, but these big old Ky. coyotes were squalling, getting up, and running off. Since I started loading the 39 grain Sierra Blitz King, he has killed over 40 with no run offs. Don't know if that would hold true on the AR platform rifles or not, but I'd be willing to bet it would.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted September 06, 2011 10:27 AM
I had 3 different guns in that caliber and used 2 of them on coyotes. My experience with them was much like Randy's, I lost too many coyotes. I sold my first gun after using the 39gr SBK's and 40gr V-max's and then everyone said the bullet was the problem so I bought another gun and tried the 35gr Bergers with about the same luck. Sold it and wound up with another one but sold it before ever using it.
Now my cuzz has an AR in that caliber and he loves it so far. Maybe I'm a bad shot too?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 06, 2011 11:32 AM
Could just as easily be the "Whammy". I sure lost a lot of cripples with my first Model 660 in 6mm. I thought just about any bullet was like lightning in a bottle. How wrong. A bad bullet is a bad bullet in any caliber.
Then I discovered the 60 grain Sierra HP and a whole different world, accuracy as well as terminal performance.
I could also mention, as long as I'm at it that I lost too many runners using the 68 Berger in a different 6mm on a Mauser action.
There is no way I could be convinced that any bullet could make a good coyote cartridge out of a 223Rem. I never lost one, but four or five shots were routine. Well, maybe not always? It just seemed like it.
I may not be convinced on the 204, but I'm still listening. And, BTW; 40 coyotes is just a good start. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2011 12:04 PM
"And, BTW; 40 coyotes is just a good start."
Might be true Leonard, but it would make a good finish for a lot of the internet hunters up in this part of the world. (LOL +)
Hitting 'em where it counts is probably the most important element on any of these calibers, but in Josh's case, it was definitely the 32 grain Bergers not doing the job. He didn't hit the 40 plus any better with the 39 grain Blitz Kings than he did the previous ones with the 32 grain Bergers, but the 40 plus are graveyard dead.
Same is true for my hunting buddy, "Yote Yoda", and his JP AR-15 in 223 cal.. He shoots the Hornady Superperformance Varmint, 53 grain Vmax, and I haven't seen one run off on him in the two years he has been shooting that rifle. Big old coyotes at ranges up to 230 yds too, DRT. He kills more than his share of coyotes too. Maybe it is because he was a "Cave rat" in Viet Nam?
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 06, 2011 01:14 PM
Well, don't get me wrong, Al. The comment was not to belittle your grandson's accomplishments.
My personal yardstick is that with a hundred or so examples, you should have a realistic idea of the terminal performance of just about any rifle/cartridge/bullet combination.
I realize that might be a tall order in various parts of the country. It's sure as hell, a damned good season or two, just about anywhere.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 06, 2011 02:56 PM
My experience with the .204 Ruger as a Coyote rifle has been a good one.I've shot a few coyotes with mine and it has been almost exclusively with the 35 grain bergers.I have had very few runners most have been dead where they stood.VERY effective cartridge out to 300 yards or so.
I don't use it much anymore,having retired it in favor of my 17 Tactical as my primary fur gun,with it's better B.C and bullet construction and it seems alittle easier on the fur. But still I really like how the .204 works on coyotes...FWIW
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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sak81
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3706
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posted September 06, 2011 03:52 PM
No complaints here. Probably have taken 75-80 coyotes over the past couple years. As close as 25 yards, an out to 300. 32 gr. v-max seems to work for me.
Posts: 50 | From: mt | Registered: Nov 2010
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted September 06, 2011 04:56 PM
So LB, when testing a new bullet or cartridge, if you lose the first 40, just keep going till you're sure?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted September 06, 2011 05:09 PM
I see berger makes a 30 gr. and a 35 gr. berger .20 cal. bullet. Would someone tell me where to find the 32 gr. berger bullets that Al is speaking of?
I've had good success with both the 35's and the 40 gr. bergers. The 40's will pass through from time to time, but still work well.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 06, 2011 05:37 PM
TRnCO, my bad on the 32 grain Berger. My 72 year old brain is becoming bogged down with premature and ontime Alzeimer's (LOL). It as actually a Hornady 32 gr. Vmax that he was having the trouble with. The fellow who was loading for him was real high on that particular bullet but it sure didn't put 'em down to stay for Josh. He was drilling them solid at varying ranges out to 300 yds, and they were all doing the same thing, going down, squalling like the devil had them by the tail, but then jumping up if their mate or running partner came over to check on what was wrong. He had 5 at one time come into a big hay field that lies between two wooded areas, and ended up killing 1 out of 4 that he shot, and he shot it between the eyes at 75 yds. The 35 grain Berger might work fine for him, but he has no desire to abandon the success he has experienced with the 39 grain Blitz Kings. Tack driving accurate and pure deadly is about all you could ask for, IMO.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted September 06, 2011 06:58 PM
ah, makes more sense...
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted September 06, 2011 07:20 PM
quote:
I may not be convinced on the 204, but I'm still listening. And, BTW; 40 coyotes is just a good start.
I don't even take it that far. When trying out a new bullet I will test it on chest shots as well as just behind the shoulder and also a running away shot that enters from the back and moveing forward... In most cases five to ten coyotes will tell the story.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5614 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted September 07, 2011 06:01 AM
Possumal, based on the young man's successes with them, how are those 39Blitzkings on a solid shoulder shot? How hard is he pushing them?
Reason I ask is that I load the 39Bkings for the .20TAC as my p-dog ammo, but i've been sckeeered to try one on a coyote. They sure do make for vivid prairie jell-o though! And simply going on internet heresay, I tun the 35 Bergers as a 'coyote' load, but have maybe only kilt 5 with them & another two with the 40gr Bergers. Hardly enough for me to draw any conclusions on my own...
thanks
[ September 07, 2011, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted September 07, 2011 06:41 AM
I carry a 204 when calling during cat season.
Took Cals advise and loaded 35gr Bergers. Works real good for fur, but I expect to and do loose some coyotes when I carry it.
They dont leak much with the 204 and if the brush is thick, they can be hard to trail up without a dog. The dog stays home when calling cats.
With that said. The 204 has suprised me on some coyotes that I hit too far back. Killed them deader that heck, just like a 22-250 would.
Stay after them
Kelly
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 07, 2011 08:22 AM
knockemdown, Josh hits the coyotes in the best spot for the shot offered. Most of them are broadside and he shoots them in the shoulder dead center when he can, or just behind on a quartering away shot. Shots facing him, he pops them high in the chest where it meets the neck. He refrains from taking running shots as it is usually a losing situation where you don't get to practice it a lot. In all cases, he has not had one run off since I started loading the 39 grain Blitz King for him. When he shoots them dead center in the shoulder or chest, the fur damage is minimal. He doesn't sell the furs but gives them to a feller with a big family who does anything he can to make a honest buck, and he reports back to Josh no bad damage to the fur.
Paul Box of Sierra suggested 23.7 grains of RE-10X at 3500 fps, and it shoots so good in Josh's gun and kills the coyotes so well, I have not played with it one bit. He hunts everything with bow and gun and trains and sells Chocolate labs, so he doesn't have time to hunt coyotes much, either alone or with his old Peepaw. It took me about a year hunting with him to get him out of pulling the trigger and looking up at the same time, resulting in misses on the first 8 or 10 coyotes he shot at. It is their problem if they give him a shot now though, as he is a "Cool hand Luke" type now.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 07, 2011 09:49 AM
quote:
pulling the trigger and looking up at the same time,
My son did that on daylights, when younger. On coyotes, for some reason? Used to drive me totally nuts! Took some earnest conversation to cure that shit!
Based on his most recent dove per shot shell expended, he might be doing the old "up periscope" ? I should have been paying attention.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 07, 2011 12:03 PM
Leonard, "Up periscope" is one hell of a fitting term for what Josh used to do. He could sit there at the bench rest on the practice area and shoot 1/2" groups all day long, but let Wiley show up, and he was taking a peep, real bad. I had to threaten not to hunt with him anymore, and worse, to get him to realize I had no reason to tell him wrong. Once he nailed his first one, he got right with the program and his Peepaw. Sure wish I could hunt with him more, but such is family life as I know too well. He has a dandy little boy, Collier, who wants to hunt and go with daddy everywhere, and another boy on the way before much longer. He is busy as hell trying to make a living, raise his family, and hunt, hunt, hunt, hunt, and then hunt some more. Kinda ticks his wife off that Collier wants to be just like daddy and Peepaw. I hope, for his sake, he copies after daddy a bit more. (LOL for real)
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 07, 2011 06:00 PM
I can't imagine why somebody would pop his head up, kind of like he was goosed? I have never seen it before, jr. had shot .22s and shotguns, handguns for years previously. Then, he starts shooting coyotes and suddenly, it's "up periscope". Unbelievable. And, amazing to observe.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 08, 2011 05:48 AM
Leonard, I suspect it has something to do with the coyote being such a nervous, furtive creature. That combined with the hunter really wanting to put the smack on Mr. Trickster that he get much more nervous than hunters usually do on their first deer or two. Not really understanding the actual dimensions of the coyote's kill zone from different angles adds to the problem. In winter, when they are furred out to the max, they don't realize that there is 3 to 4 inches of fur and guard hair on top and bottom, and they consequently misjudge and give the coyote a slight haircut. Most of the time, even if he knows how to stop old Wiley, he doesn't have the luxury of plenty of time like he does with most deer, and he gets overanxious as a result. When they finally learn, if they ever do, to "Hurry up but take their time", a beautiful transformation happens---fur on the ground and it is addictive.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
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