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Author
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Topic: .204 Ruger?
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sparkyibewlocal440
Knows what it's all about
Member # 397
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posted September 09, 2011 07:14 PM
When I was searching for a dependable bullet for my .20-250, I tried the 39 grain Blitz kings. They failed 50% of the time. Meaning they splashed on the surface causing a large surface wound. Would indeed require a follow up shot.Unnecessary suffering on the Coyote's part, which I find unacceptable. I have found the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip to be the best hands down. Some say the Noslers have a tougher Jacket than the other plastic tipped bullets.Maybe, I don't know. I am convinced, it is the Ballistic tip's "solid base" that does the job for this caliber. Excellent penetration and killing performance. Not always fur friendly. I am pushing these faster than your mild velocities. 4200-4300 fps, makes them even more convincing.
Cheers, Gary
Posts: 170 | From: So. Cal | Registered: Sep 2004
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 10, 2011 07:41 AM
Since I have mentioned my grandson, Josh, several times in this thread, I thought this would be a fitting place to post a picture of his little man, Collier Sexton, obviously well along in his training to be a hunter. He is our third great grandson, and I sure do love that little feller. He has a little brother due in about two months, and he has no chance of being anything but a hunter. Kinda ticks his mama off that Collier seems sure to follow the footsteps of his daddy and Grand Peepaw Possumal. Maybe he'll get lucky and follow his daddy more. I sure do love him, and hope the Good Lord lets me stick around long enough to take him out coyote hunting, maybe even train him some like I did his daddy, Josh. Here is a picture of Collier, ready to rock.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted September 10, 2011 08:58 AM
Follow thru is a big deal with some archery shooters too. I don't know how many shooters would drop their bow arm to watch the arrow fly to the target, or rather miss or hit low 'cause they dropped their arm to look.
Kinda like the periscope deally...
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted September 13, 2011 07:47 AM
"When I was searching for a dependable bullet for my .20-250, I tried the 39 grain Blitz kings.
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They failed 50% of the time. Meaning they splashed on the surface causing a large surface wound. Would indeed require a follow up shot.Unnecessary suffering on the Coyote's part, which I find unacceptable. I have found the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip to be the best hands down."
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This. Same story.
On paper, shooting groups, the 35gr Berger and 39gr B.K. are the stars. On critters I had much better results with the 40gr Noslers.
Posts: 53 | From: socal | Registered: Jan 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 15, 2011 02:04 PM
I can't speak for anybody pushing the 39 grain Blitz King that fast as I have no experience doing that. The load that I am using for Josh's 204 is nowhere near that fast, but it is dead eye accurate and he has had no problems killing coyotes DRT. It appears that maybe the 39 grain BK isn't designed for the higher speed loads. Josh was doing that splatter deal with the 32 grain Vmax bullets at high speed. High speed isn't always the best answer for every caliber, IMO.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 16, 2011 10:41 AM
The .204 must be OK, and I have seen posts by guys who swear by them. Me? I consider the caliber too dang small for serious coyote work. I have spent more than my share of time and money in trying various calibers and bullets. If I had known when I first started calling that I would be wise to simply buy a good 6mm Remington sporter, I could have saved a bunch of time and money. Anything that a .204 can do, a 6mm Remington can do it better.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 16, 2011 10:58 AM
Probably a Good Idea Rich.Leave it to the guys that know how to kill those coyotes with the smaller calibers.We don't want a bunch of crippled coyotes running all over Iowa. ![[Wink]](wink.gif) lol
Good hunting Chad
[ September 16, 2011, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 16, 2011 11:02 AM
The closest to an eternal truth as has ever been stated, on Huntmasters. I agree, 100%.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted September 16, 2011 12:22 PM
Thinking out loud again;
Is it possible that the .204 is adequate for the smaller western coyotes but falls a bit short for the larger eastern coyotes????
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 16, 2011 12:38 PM
Koko, if you look back at some of the posts of coyotes killed by my grandson, Josh, you'll see they are typical big old coyotes. They seem to be longer coupled in this part of the country, and I assume that holds true in the northern states like Maine. Josh has killed a lot of 40 lb. plus coyotes, including one at 42 yds with his Matthews bow. He wasn't all that excited about doing so, as the picture he sent was taken with his damned cellphone and didn't do the critter much credit.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted September 16, 2011 01:23 PM
"Is it possible that the .204 is adequate for the smaller western coyotes but falls a bit short for the larger eastern coyotes????"
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Adequate? Well, that depends. Out west you run into strong cross-winds and longer shots though. A 60 grain Sierra at 3700 fps out of a 6mm is hard to argue with though.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 16, 2011 02:15 PM
I think what Rich is trying to say is, if you want them dead, use enough gun.
While a 204 may actually be counted on to do the job, 9 out of ten times, it is also true that a 6MM will settle a coyote's hash, more better.....IF YOU DO YOUR PART. (yuk, yuk)
Look at it this way. Are you going to hunt tigers with a 204? Well, why not, for heaven sakes?
Because the 577Nitro does the job more better. (if you do your part)
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 17, 2011 10:34 AM
There's no doubt that the 6mm is a wind cheating rascal. I like the 70 grain Sierra Blitz King and it is flat out poison on coyotes, close or far. I have heard guys swear by the Super Performance Hornady 58 grain factory loads, and they may be fine. I know my nephew, Yote Yoda, is totally sold on the same bullet in 53 grain for his JP AR-15 223.
I'll bet if he was hunting out west with the long shots in windy conditions, he'd switch to a 6mm of some sort. I know I like my Savage 243 for long range work, calm or windy. Out to the range most of our coyotes are shot, I think the 204 or 223 are fine. I just choose which rifle to take based on the kind of country we are going to that day.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 17, 2011 10:52 AM
Nobody really cares what car you drive or what sort of rifle you shoot, it's all within the realm of personal preference.
At one time or another, I have tried many different, but I continue to error on the plus side.
A 204 would be just fine in many circumstances and a mite marginal, in others.
If you have confidence in it, sally forth and slay the dragon, or the yote, as the case may be.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lungbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 630
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posted September 17, 2011 11:12 AM
Mine shoots the 40gr V-max at 3500 fps, I couldn't get the 35gr Bergers to shoot very well. I'd like to get more velocity but this is what the rifle likes.. I've killed less than a dozen coyotes with it, I use it more for rock chucks, but I've never lost a coyote or ruined a hide with it either....
Posts: 225 | From: Idaho | Registered: Mar 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 18, 2011 06:11 PM
I've been testing the 40 gr. Hornady V-max in my 20x47 Lapua last season and the start of this one.. After just a handfull of coyotes taken with the 40 gr. I would say its pretty much a coin toss as far as hide damage and killing coyotes goes. It can leave a nice little twenty cal. hole going in and nothing comeing out or it can make a big mess... I don't have much for choices for bullets at the moument so I'll have to make due till I find something else..
I made four stands with a double comeing in on the first stand, shot the male first and had just a little hole going in. Shot the female shortly after and had a bad splatter.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/030-1.jpg[/IMG]] 
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/TA17Rem/Capture0000.jpg[/IMG]] 
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 18, 2011 06:29 PM
That is just the problem, you never know with a VMax? If Nosler makes something comparable in .204 it may be like the 55 .224" Ballistic Tip, with a heavier jacket. This is why I like my 65's that steam right on through, barely opening, if at all, on a lung shot.
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 18, 2011 06:49 PM
I picked up a box of Nosler 40 gr. ballistic tips on the way home from Pierre, gonna give them a try and see what happens.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 19, 2011 08:44 AM
Leonard, Nosler does - it's what Gary recommended at the top of the page. I never did get around to shooting any coyotes with them out of my .20-250 but he has shot a bunch with them out of his.
I'm going to try the .243 caliber 55 B-tips on coyote out of my 6-284 this year. Don't have time to skin and put up fur this year, so the fur friendly aspect will be purely academic. I'm not expecting to be impressed in that regard though. Neither am I expecting many cripples.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 19, 2011 09:59 AM
Yup, you are correct. I missed that, but we are thinking along the same lines. I don't know if it is a thicker jacket or the base but my experience is mostly in 22 caliber and everybody I know that uses the 55 Nosler swears by them, at hyper velocities.
Hey, a 6/284? What happened to that 17 Predator you wouldn't sell me? lol
Maybe you noticed that I'd going in that same direction, as my new daylight gun is a 22-243Middlested.
What's the twist on your 6/284? Using the light bullets, you could go 1 in 12" I think?
gh....lb
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 19, 2011 10:53 AM
Leonard, it's a 1-13 twist. Had intended to use slightly heavier bullets in it, 65's or 70's, and it does shoot those fine. But it shoots the 55 BT's REALLY well, and at 4300 fps, they are the flattest shooting as well as the most accurate. So, what the heck, I'll run 'em. I'm sure they'll kill the crap out of coyotes just fine.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 19, 2011 11:41 AM
I think that's the secret with those hotrods. A slower twist favors barrel life. As long as you stabilize the bullet. I think that something around 180,000RPM should provide the best accuracy. I don't know exactly where spinning them too fast is, but I know that I was spinning 55 Bergers too fast @ 4400 and they were blowing up, and that was out of a 14 twist. And, that's the long and short of why I have been using 65 grain bullets all these years. It was accidental, but I love the results.
gh....lb
PS, Boy, when you decide to try something else, you don't mess around, do you?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 19, 2011 03:40 PM
Lungbuster's comments about the 40 grain Vmax at 3500 fps and the results is quite comparable to my experience with the 39 grain Blitz King for my grandson. He is pushing the Vmax at 3500 and killing them dead with minimum fur damage. So is Josh with his 39 grain Blitz King at a comparable speed. The only difference is he as shot a lot of coyotes with his 204, many of them at long range, with the same good results. Again, it appears that some of these rockets some guys are pushing at high speeds could be causing bad results. Just saying.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted September 19, 2011 06:12 PM
quote:
it appears that some of these rockets some guys are pushing at high speeds could be causing bad results.
Youre right Al.. The plastic tips are intended for the smaller cases of which ever Cal. you are shooting... The bullets are designed to blow apart as they enter the critter you are shooting, at a higher vel. it just speeds up the blowing apart process..
I could load down so that they would work but then I would have vel. simular to a 223....
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted September 19, 2011 07:07 PM
TA, I remember years ago, and I mean years ago, when a lot of guys were loading the 220 swift so hot that they were disintegrating if they hit the slightest weed, and I even read stories about them breaking up in midair without hitting anything. Personally, I don't care if the bullet is moving 3500 fps or 3300 fps if the critter gets dead, preferably DRT. Hell, then came the outbreak of various wildcats, all rushing to see if they could reach warp speed. If they were target shooting for accuracy, I guess the guy whose bullet got there 1/100 of a millisecond faster, dead center, beat the other dead on shooters.
As far as I know, a fellow from Lexington, Ky. named Lowell Remark, as good a guy as you could ever meet, still holds the bench rest accuracy record for the 222. I saw the 10 shot group and it was truly a sight to see, one 22 cal. hole with one little dimple at 2:00 o'clock. Man, he was pure death on groundhogs too.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
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