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Author
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Topic: Buying a "can" is joke..
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 28, 2014 06:18 PM
If you want to know how screwed up government can be, just try and buy a suppressor.
Its so ridiculous.
First, ATF has a "new" efile site that is suppose to solve the wait issues, but than too many folks log in (maybe 3 or 4?) and it breaks!
Finally, they take it down and say it will be fixed soon which is taking months..
After a month of waiting for efile , my vendor says just send in the paper work for the over 6 month wait.
Arghh..
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted May 28, 2014 07:32 PM
Hey, it's not like it's the same government that is going to run the nation's Health Care.
No........
Wait.........
Never mind.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7579 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 29, 2014 03:47 AM
Just pay your money and it'll be like CHRISTmas morning when you get the call.
Actually I've heard that depending on which state you're in, some agents are not as busy as those assigned to other states. Some are being told up to a year wait.
Anyway, what can did you get?
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 29, 2014 05:51 AM
I'm not convinced that I need one?
Of course, I made one for my AR many years ago, (I am a master welder) but I could be joking about that? Kinda crude, and I had no objective way to measure it's effectiveness. But, for sure, I was way ahead of the curve, nobody was talking about suppressors at the time.
It could be a $200 fad, a status symbol. I'm not even sure where mine is, right now?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 29, 2014 07:11 AM
I know you're only joking Leonard, cause getting caught actually doing so could mean a $100,000 fine and a 10 year fad in prison.
I just have a 22 can and it's fun but actually needing a can for a 223 doesn't pop up on my gotta have things. For starters, the $200 tax stamp is the easy part, buying a can that is light enough to actually use runs over a grand and then you still have the ballistic crack with supersonic ammo. Subsonic, I'll run my 22lr.
Buying a bigger can and using say a 45 or 9mm or even a 308 chunking 220 gr bullets is quite impressive though.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 29, 2014 07:33 AM
Tom, seems your definitely up on suppressors. A can on a 22lr is quite impressive..
I'm getting a GEMTECH .
Leonard, just burning some $$
[ May 29, 2014, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted May 29, 2014 08:25 AM
I have a couple of bank customers that are in the process of going through the necessary paperwork to get suppressors.
I don’t know how it is in other states, but the attorney my guys are going through are recommending that a Revocable Trust be set up to ‘own’ the suppressors—the attorney calls them ‘Gun Trusts’. It is recommended that there be a couple of trustees in the trust.
The rationale is that if a trust is not set up, upon the death of the owner, at least in Kansas, the suppressor must be surrendered and legal ownership does not automatically pass to the spouse. The other issue is that in Kansas, the only person allowed to shoot a firearm with a suppressor is the one that was registered as the owner.
If the trust is the owner, and one of the trustees die, the suppressor can still be possessed legally, passed down, etc..
Here is an article explaining the basic premise:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/us/in-gun-trusts-a-legal-loophole-for-restricted-firearms.html?pagewanted%253Dall
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 29, 2014 08:51 AM
Right on Booger!
My vendor made it very easy. He provided me the trust, got my sons names on it and got it notorized. Done. No bugging the local sheriff , finger prints, etc..
Now the waiting game.
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 29, 2014 09:22 AM
I guess I just don't see the value. If I were to have one, it would be on a rifle that best shoots supersonic. Just yesterday, I was talking to my gun plumber who was a sniper in the Army in 'Nam and we were talking about how they set up their match grade M-1's they used when on watch. he said they always loaded the mags with the first round being a tracer so the spotter could get the proper dope with the first shot. He said that the target cannot see the light in the daytime from a tracer round, but that everyone behind it can and that is what they would adjust on. What tripped me on this thread is that he said that anyone worth their shit being shot at, although they couldn't see the tracer round's light in daylight, could easily and accurately pinpoint the trajectory of the bullet and its point of origin solely on the supersonic crack of the bullet approaching and going by. He said the adjustments between that first round and the second were made quickly, knowing the crack had given them away most times. I can say that I have had one high-velocity round fired over my head before and can say that I easily knew the direction it came from because it sounded like a rocket going overhead. To me, the whole suppressor idea seems like just another marketing move within the industry. Lotta coyotes been taken without one and will continue to be. Not worth the hassle. I had a friend, dead now, that borrowed a suppressed rifle from another guy. He and his wife got into a fight. Cops showed up. Rifle was found. He turned state's evidence on the guy he borrowed it from and that guy spent 18 months in a federal prison in TX. That's been ten years ago and he still cannot own a gun or ammo or anything lime that. Rapists get less time than he did. Nope, not worth the hassle.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 29, 2014 09:31 AM
I'm new to supressors but have shot a few.
I have a friend who went the corporation route and advised me to do the same. The trust route was also mentioned elsewhere but my dealer didn't know anything about either one and I figured if I was gonna do it, I should just get it over with.
So I went the individual route, which can be transferred to my heirs for $5 if I was told correctly. In Okie land anyone can shoot mine but I have to be there. I have a very short list of people I'd share my supressor with so that really wasn't a concern. My sheriff signed off without any trouble and the process was painless, they already have my fingerprints anyway. I think I paid $25 to be fingerprinted again, much cheaper than setting up a trust I would think.
The thing that bothered me the most is the extra responsibility that goes with them. I was told that if a law was broken with a supressor, it becomes a felony. Not real sure how true that is but I'm not concerned anyway. But to loan a can out to someone on my trust, they would have to understand the penalties and the beating they would receive if they did anything to jeopardize my stamp.
I got a Gemtech too and like it just fine.
I've had two rifles for it and sold both of them. A bolt action is the quietest but real picky on ammo. (Too loud if they go supersonic and not all subsonic ammo is actually) the pistol is a hoot and almost everything is subsonic in it. If it only had a slide lock...
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 29, 2014 11:01 AM
Having had my suppressor for the past 3 years I have zero regrets, other than I wish I would've gotten it many years ago. At the very least, my ears like it much better than any rifle without it. At this point, I'm also convinced that I've killed a few more coyotes each season since getting it, just because of the lesser rifle report.
The process was easy as pie, from having fingers prints done, sheriff sign off, and then the wait. Back then the snail mail version was just about 5 months.
I'm not a criminal so I don't worry about what might happen if I break a law and get caught. And if and when I die, I don't see my wife really giving a care in the world if she can't keep the thing or not. No reason to loan it out, that I can think of.
It is just so much more pleasurable to shoot with it and when shooting a bunch in a day, on prairie dogs for instance, it really makes it much more enjoyable.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 29, 2014 11:03 AM
I SAID I WAS JOKING. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
edit: hey, I have a Browning Camper, very similar. I like it.
I still think, $200 versus ear plugs....
edit: besides, they'll never take me alive!
[ May 29, 2014, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 29, 2014 11:45 AM
I knew you were Leonard.
A lot of "preppers" are getting the 22 cans so they can kill a squirrel to eat and the zombies won't hear em I guess. But I have seen times when I didn't want anyone to hear me shoot...
It might come in handy one day.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 29, 2014 11:47 AM
But do you wear ear plugs while calling? You should, ya know. Every shot equals more damage, not as much so with a suppressor.
I still wear hearing protection while shooting colony rats simply for the fact of 100's of rounds fired in a day, will wear on you, even with a suppressor.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 29, 2014 01:34 PM
I think mine is too small to be really effective with supersonic ammunition. Just a wild hair, something to do, at the time. It works, but not enough, and I think it affected the harmonics too much?
Of course, I'm just kidding. I'd never do something like that. Gosh, it's illegal, and everybody knows how legit I am.
But, on a Browning Camper, that's actually kinda cool.
Actually, that's what gave me the idea, I was over at a friend for the Superbowl and a pool tournament, (which I won) but he hauled out his 22, I think it was a Colt Woodsman? Impressively quiet. Wasn't much louder than a pellet rifle.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 29, 2014 03:36 PM
From the prepper standpoint, I have a .25 cal Benjamin Marauder air rifle. Purty easy to find ammo. Can get about 30 shots out of one series of pumping it up to operating pressure, and I've taken rats and other vermin out to 50 yards+ with it. Best of all, the "spring" of the spring in the trigger assembly is the loudest part of the report. If you're more than 20 feet from me, you'd never hear it. They say these things will kill a deer with a head shot out to 30 yards. I don't know about that......
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
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MI VHNTR
I'm not shaving 'til Obama's gone!
Member # 3370
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posted May 29, 2014 05:21 PM
The "gun friendly" state of Michigan finally allowed the residents to own a suppressor. The thing is, it's not legal to hunt with one in the state. Not much sense in owning one here until the idiots in Lansing get their heads out of their butts.
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The Second Amendment isn't about Hunting. It's about Freedom.
FJB Let's Go Brandon
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Duckdog
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3842
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posted May 29, 2014 06:40 PM
Kansas only started allowing it a couple of years ago.
I've always wanted one, and even said I would if they were ever made legal to hunt with,...but you know how that goes.
I've actually been giving the .22 pistol set up more thought than anything. I really like your set up Tom.
What are your thoughts on the Ruger Mk II or III Vs the Browning Buckmark?
Are the .22 suppresors more affordable?
Posts: 205 | From: Ks | Registered: Jun 2011
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted May 29, 2014 06:42 PM
Everybody has an opinion. Mine is, that for coyotes, a suppressor is worth it's weight in gold. Aybody that says otherwise hasn't used one. I would hate to go back to not using one.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 29, 2014 07:50 PM
My can is going to look like this one on the AR..
It's tough to wait til Christmas ..
[ May 29, 2014, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Fur_n_Dirt ]
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
Posts: 437 | From: Tucson | Registered: Sep 2013
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Fur_n_Dirt
So. Ariz. Zone Tech. Expert
Member # 4467
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posted May 29, 2014 07:52 PM
By the way, what bullet types do u guys use? It seems shooting Vmax type bullets can void warranty..
I plan to use hollow points.
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--- It's all simple if you know what you are doing ---
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 29, 2014 09:13 PM
"I've actually been giving the .22 pistol set up more thought than anything. I really like your set up Tom.
What are your thoughts on the Ruger Mk II or III Vs the Browning Buckmark?
Are the .22 suppresors more affordable?"
I've had two Rugers that were tack drivers but traded off both. Acquired four or five more trying to replace them with no luck. They were ok shooters (MK II's) but not impressive like the other two.
I finally found a Buckmark that I liked, the URX grip/frame and it's an ok shooter but I bought the TacSol barrel which is aluminum with a SS sleeve for the actual barrel.
The 22 cans are half priced compared to a center fire can.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 30, 2014 09:17 AM
quote:
Everybody has an opinion. Mine is, that for coyotes, a suppressor is worth it's weight in gold. Aybody that says otherwise hasn't used one. I would hate to go back to not using one.
Calvin Taylor
That's quite a testimonial. But, I still think I don't need one, no matter if it's worth it's weight in gold. Now, I can see it for what you, (Cal) do, but for my application, I'm not convinced. And, it's only worth it's weight in gold on multiples. Multiples, in places like northern Nevada is kinda wishful thinking, they are so spread out.
GOOD HUNTING. LB
edit: that Buckmark is a hot setup. Is that a Burris gadget on top?
[ May 30, 2014, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31460 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 30, 2014 09:22 AM
I kinda fell asleep while posting last night and forgot the most important part about 22 cans, they are also half the size and weight. My can is 1" OD, 5" long and weighs 2.7 oz.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted June 02, 2014 04:36 AM
Multiples is correct LB, both those that come together and those that come strung out. In our summertime work it is a bonus when you have two or three coyotes working the dogs and you can shoot the first without upsetting the others as much. In the winter I see a huge benefit when you have one show at say the two minute mark then another a few minutes later. Those coyotes that are coming in from further out don't seem nearly as concerned when they show. Even when your watching them out a half mile or so they just keep coming. The lesser sound really helps out. And it really does seem to confuse them as to where the sound comes from. I have shot the first of a pair several times and had the second coyote actually move towards me not knowing where the sound comes from.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
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