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Author
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Topic: Soooo, tell me?
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 11, 2023 10:08 AM
"You can't fool a coyote nose".
Actually, you can. Elk, too.
When I lived in Olympia (Gawd-awefull place) there was a guy in the archery club who was a truly fanatical elk hunter. Said that he had tried everything to fool an elk's nose to no avail. I told him that I had some stuff that would work but only if he was really dedicated and pure of heart.
This had his undivided attention as well as his girlfriend's who was there with him.
I told him that he needed to do the usual shower, baking soda routine and then apply the stuff I had a jar of.
Del Krammer's Call Lure. It was as far as I could tell pure skunk juice in a Vaseline base. Beyond powerful stuff.
I explained that if he warmed the jar up to melt the lure and then applied it all over his body with a clean basting brush everywhere, even behind the ears, between the toes, down the crack & under the sack he could move among the elk undetected.
He wrote down the address on the jar.
I don't know if he tried it or not, but to the day I moved away his girlfriend hated me.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 11, 2023 11:41 AM
quote:
Tip:
Back in the trapping days, when setting a leghold we'd light a menthol cigarette and gently lay it over the dusted pan and let it burn down after leaving. Worked great for coyotes and cats.
It worked on Red fox as well.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 11, 2023 09:04 PM
I don't know what to think? OK, first of all, my trapping consists of a cage and I have caught a couple opossums and a couple feral cats.
The tricks and technique being offered have not a lot of value, in my humble opinion.
That's all I got.
over and out.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 12, 2023 07:15 AM
Much can be learned from trapping and ups your education as far as critters go.
Take your misting for example. It's been used for years in the trapping field at a set for red fox or coyotes. Make a set and then mist the area around the trap but avoid putting it on the trap bed itself and then come back next day and see the results. Urine has always been used at most sets as a relaxer you might say and gets the target animal to stick around longer and work the set and yes you can mix urine from other critters to add to its benefit. After I made a catch, I would take the critter home and skin it then cut it open and extract its urine from urine sack and use it at same set. Catch a female in heat and add her urine as well when making late season sets. Take blood for example it has a very powerful scent and can't be resisted either but needs to be mixed with something so it don't dry out to fast.
When running the dog's late season when female coyote is in full heat, she will be dripping blood and don't last very long in front of the dogs as they glued to her blood trail and same can be said if I'm running a crippled coyote that has been wounded.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 12, 2023 03:13 PM
TA thank you for reminding me that my concept of misting has NEVER been understood and never will.
I won't waste my time explaining it here.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 13, 2023 08:01 AM
Not sure what's to understand. From what I know about coyotes or predators the mist is going to do a few things. 1- take some fear out of the coyote. 2- create a terr. response. 3- stop the coyote when it enters scent zone and perhaps give time for a shot. 4. throw up a caution flag. 5- distraction or confusion. Just to name a few.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5062 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2023 01:38 PM
You stumbled on to #3, which is the result 99% of the time. If it's a cat, he may very well come in from down wind.
Do not ever expect a coyote to approach your stand from downwind just because you are using spray urine. On the other hand, if you are already lined up on him and he stops to sniff your scent (for no more than 5 seconds), this is the only valid reason for using scent, AT NIGHT. (edit) You had better be ready to shoot the fucker RIGHT NOW!
Also, this only supposes that you could not squeak him stopped for a shot before he gets downwind. You don't really want him downwind. If he is determined to get downwind, having enough scent in the wind is the only way that you might get a shot before he disappears. In other words, do not be a bonehead and think that this stuff can be sprayed downwind, ONCE THE ANIMAL IS DOWNWIND! You are wasting your time and proving that you are not capable of understanding the whole friggin' concept. For the slow readers out there, you must begin pumping spray down wind immediately, if the animal steps one foot towards the downwind. All coyotes will go downwind, eventually. The stupid ones approach on a string and just as soon as the detect something is not right, they remember to go downwind. Unless you already shot and missed! Then, he may depart in just about any direction.
Using scent on daylight stands is a waste of time. Period. But, hunting at night and using spray scent, you can learn a lot about coyote behavior and apply it to day stands, where the coyote's tendency to go downwind is maybe 50% of the time, maybe it's 25% or maybe it's 75%. They are LESS inclined to go downwind on a daylight stand. At night, count on it!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 13, 2023, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 13, 2023 02:36 PM
quote:
Do not ever expect a coyote to approach your stand from downwind just because you are using spray urine. On the other hand, if you are already lined up on him and he stops to sniff your scent (for no more than 5 seconds), this is the only valid reason for using scent, AT NIGHT. (edit) You had better be ready to shoot the fucker RIGHT NOW!
I expect the coyote to come into my sound cone, that's how I set up and yes agree be ready to shoot. But that's also a no brainer should always be ready to pull the trigger when the shot feels right.
I used to carry some type of squeaker, mainly for fox but now days I leave it at home. Many times, I got a coyote coming in on vole mouse and just let it play out and works for me.
I understand what you trying to accomplish with misting, and it has some merit. Problem here is the wind don't always blow very straight like one would think and I also hate the taste of the mist on my lips. Need something with a stick attached to get it away from the body or it just swirls back at you some. ick!
Maybe next winter I'll give it a whirl again as I have a solution on how to keep it away from me. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 13, 2023 07:06 PM
You are bringing up some things that will always cancel misting, like a gusting wind or in canyons, which Minnesota folks don't understand but coyotes understand conditions, and if it's swirling and gusty, they know that going downwind has limited value. Sometimes in canyons and if you are oriented in certain ways, your scent will tend to go up and over and a coyote won't get any of it, put the bottle away.
It's not very smart to use coyote urine if it's going to be blown back in your face! Put it away!
Here's the deal. If a coyote is important, and the conditions are favorable, then this is a friggin' BONUS that you would never get without misting. Some would say it's a waste of time, or it only works under the right conditions. I have seen conditions pretty much the same in some places I like to hunt all night long. Under a new moon, with high pressure, meaning it's cold, with a light, steady breeze, this is excellent conditions for misting, and I wouldn't be without it, (mist) when it's like this.
I should also mention that this is very difficult to do if you are alone. you really need a independent shooter working closely while you work the light and flood the down wind with mist. Your shooter needs to know what's going on without you telling him and he needs to have that gun ready for the shot when the animal stops. You got maybe 5 seconds before he gets wise and is GONE! I can't make it any clearer than this. It only takes a couple coyotes downwind to understand what needs to be done. I also admit that some people just don't get it. <sigh>
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 13, 2023 08:10 PM
quote:
which Minnesota folks don't understand but coyotes understand conditions, and if it's swirling and gusty, they know that going downwind has limited value. Sometimes in canyons and if you are oriented in certain ways, your scent will tend to go up and over and a coyote won't get any of it, put the bottle away.
I'm also aware of this even though I'm from Mn.. LOL S.D. for example always take the high ground just below a ridgeline it puts a limit on how the coyote is going to come in and like said scent can be blown over the top of them. One year doing contest I had heavy wind in my area Scott H. said just call down wind into the drainages and be ready, all you can do and the coyotes more than happy to come in at the bottom. In the area I called in you can get by with all kinds of crap other callers wouldn't dream of doing elsewhere. Different ball game here the ground is mostly flat and has shallow drainages the coyotes don't even bother to use. But then drive 30 miles from my house and it all changes thus different tactics.
quote:
I should also mention that this is very difficult to do if you are alone. you really need a independent shooter working closely while you work the light and flood the down wind with mist. Your shooter needs to know what's going on without you telling him and he needs to have that gun ready for the shot when the animal stops. You got maybe 5 seconds before he gets wise and is GONE! I can't make it any clearer than this. It only takes a couple coyotes downwind to understand what needs to be done.
The nice thing about thermal scopes is you don't need a partner; you see the whole game unfold before your eyes the second the coyote shows up in the scope which can be half mile out. Most guys here now use a tri-pod (bog-pod) for nightstands.
Gun is set up at eye level and locked in for hands free use and stable enough for shots out to 400 yards if not more. You can read a coyote's body langue through the scope as well so you get a pretty good idea of what it will or will not do. Young stupid coyotes tend to come straight in to about 100 yards but the ones that been messed with or have some age on them play a little different. They come to about 300 yards give or take and then start a big circle to get down wind and taking their time about it. All you can do is just hope they come in just a little closer for a shot or you just let them walk. Take note of that coyote and change up stand selection or sounds used or even how long you play them. Some like it short and sweet and some want it continues but you don't know till the first stand with them.
As far as getting mist on me that was Higgens doing, he was sitting just to my right on a dirt pile, with me down wind of him. Coyote on way in and Higgens gives it a few shots of mist and coyote stops about 8 feet in front of me and I had a scoped rifle and yes, the coyote died right there. And just think there was a guy at camp that told me 3 hours prior to my hunt I couldn't hunt with him because I was using a rifle with scope. (clever Gary) ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 14, 2023 08:05 AM
Ok ........... Unless there are situations where using mist is actually detrimental like getting it on Tim (although some might C that as a plus) if it don't hurt why not use it .......... IF using mist increases ones confidence, whether justified or not ??? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 14, 2023 02:43 PM
Well....
I think, if the conditions are not favorable, such as gusty variable wind, the coyote already knows that he is wasting his time seeking the downwind And , when wind is gusty and variable, like blowing through forest or maybe canyons: Everybody is wasting their time because nobody knows where the hell is DOWNWIND. And the coyote ain't going there because he doesn't know where downwind is, any more than you do. Put the bottle away and plan on taking a shot at a stationary animal, assuming you can determine that it's not a deer or some other kind of critter.
I suppose you could say; well it doesn't HURT to spray mist, but 98% of the time, it IS a waste of time, but go ahead and do it it it helps your MOJO. The thing is, this shit ain't magic, it won't make for ideal conditions where ideal conditions do not exist.
All I can say is when conditions are right, and you know what you are doing and, I don't know, maybe it's a little like Bass fishing with a spinner bait? You have to know what that little bump is and how to respond.
As far as what tim said about scanning with a thermal. Just plain scanning with a scoped rifle is tiring and awkward. And thermals are usually heavier than conventional scopes and if you can do it all night, while also holding a rifle, more power to ya. And, I know about tripods. Not a sure fire solution, in my opinion. Thermal goggles are the answer, just as I have been saying for many years, but with Night vision. You are vastly improved working as a team, than solitary. Personally, we always hunt wilderness areas and having a partner in a tight situation, mechanical or even medical, I do not like hunting alone. Especially predators. Some guys are always hunting alone and maybe it's because they make a crummy partner, always contrary and argumentative and nobody wants to hunt with them anyway. I've changed out ujoints in 100* desert and Wyoming cold and being able to share the work and responsibilities just make so much sense that it's not debatable.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ April 14, 2023, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 15, 2023 10:13 AM
Leonard depends on who's thermal you have and use. Mine has a generous eye relief with nice big lens to look through and no we don't scan the area up here without the rifle being in a tri-pod, bi-pod or shooting sticks. My scope also has a big rubber eye cup you put your face up against to keep unwanted light out, hard on the eyes if you don't use one. With tri-pod I can scan 360 degrees and not that big of a deal to move around. Since a shooter is standing at night, they still need some sort of back drop or cover to blend in with, coyotes see pretty good in dark as well and no moon calling is best.
As for thermal and night vision there is a difference between the two. Night vision only good for roughly 300 yards if you have a good one to start, I do have a Mono but don't use it. With night vision that 300 yard range is also the I.D. distance where you can pick up the coyote and you will see the coyote through the scope full body with greenish background, pretty close to what you see using a plain rifle scope. The night vision would-be a better choice than using a light source or full moon.
My thermal has a spotting range of over a half mile, can see cattle at a mile away. My I.D. range is around 800 yards with positive I.D. at 500 yards. All this was proven/tested in the field. If a coyote is in some tall grass soon as it sticks it head up it will be spotted. I can watch the coyote the whole time as it comes into my stand and also read its body langue and see how it reacts to whatever sounds I'm using on the caller, and the rifle will always be pointed at the coyote waiting for it to close the distance. Once coyote is spotted, I can also take my eye away from the scope so not to get any eye strain.
My scope also comes with a positive quick release so it can be taken off the rifle at any time and used just for scanning and then put back on very quickly and still on zero.
My Nephew likes to try his hand at calling so I got him a thermal to use and he makes payments in mean time. I let him choose the thermal brand and he went with a different brand which is smaller in size compared to mine and also comes with quick release mounts so it can be used as a hand scanner.
It doesn't have all the bells and whistles like mine but gets the job done and better than using a light or full moon. Only bad thing about a thermal is Humidity but humidity as affects a spotlight as well so no loss there, I guess. U-tube has plenty of night hunts using thermal so a guy can go there and see what I'm talking about.
Every year the weather here is different and there are days or even weeks when I can't run the dogs and I'll never go back to group hunting, so I decided to make the jump and get a thermal and glad I made the jump. There is so much to learn from our coyotes and night hunting just upped the learning process or added to it, knowledge is power. LOL
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 17, 2023 03:54 PM
Some of the guys stirring up shit over there remind me of the same guys that created the "Monster site" or what ever it was called several years back. had the same type of colorful names for people like the frog guy.
I know Vic and I joked about one guy that has a show and dresses like an Operator, merc. Personally, IDGAF.
Now I get the opinion that Cal thinks pretty highly of those young men, long hair or not. Hell I had long hair back in the 70's myself, before Uncle Sam gave me a haircut and put me in a green uniform.
Again, I use several different cartridges, calibers, and types of rifles. Just how I roll, but contrary to LB's above statement, I have an empty chamber to and from my stand. I chamber up when I get there. I require others to do that also when then ride in my vehicle. For Obvious reasons.
Night hunting using thermal and NV seems to be blasting off over there. I'm not there yet, but think I would like to do it, but it is expensive.
Lately where I generally call, most shots are close to 100 yards now, Don't get too many at the call, maybe it is like you said before LB, seems everyone has a Foxpro, and blast Lightning Jack. Maybe I should try "Misting"?
Hell I usually wear a chest pack, don't always bring binos, mostly a lazor range finder and pistol, 'cause I do hunt on the border sometimes. Hope that doesn't make me a Dork, or Simp!
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 18, 2023 08:12 AM
I've hunted the border for many years, but I never really felt that I had to carry a side arm? The only humans I normally run in to are Papagos, Cocopah's or Border Patrol. The Mexicans usually hide in a gully until dark, or something? And most of them are mules, with 20 kelos of weed. Anyway, if I can't defend myself with my rifle, I kinda deserve whatever I get. And, as far as I'm concerned, a holstered pistol is a pain in the ass with a slung rifle. Yeah, they have those drop down tactical holsters but they are a problem when sitting in the dirt or on a rock.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: well, maybe a shoulder holster of some kind, or chest holster like you might pack in bear country.
edit: The Monster Board? Man, I haven't even thought about that for quite a while. The "man" behind that was Gary Clevenger, (most everybody would remember him substituting HAMBURGER for some swear word) He attended our Pichacho Peak campout, so some may have met him? He treated it like a contest, confided in me that he had killed 5 coyotes, which he said was more than anybody else! Strange for a community and cordial get together? He had a contest attitude, which was warped in my opinion. We didn't get along, bad dude. edit: yeah, "dresses like an operator" would fit Gary, but he had a pony tail.
[ April 18, 2023, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted April 18, 2023 08:53 AM
It's a brave new world down on the Biden Border now that he's put the Welcome Undocumented Future Democrat Voters mat out.
This is a case where something like the Ruger .380 LCP in a Sneaky Pete holster shines. Mayhap not the best choice in a gunfight but at least something that one can always have with them. A wise man once said "The best gun to have in a fight is the one you have with you."
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted April 18, 2023 10:57 AM
Whole different world I am told. I can remember partying south of the border back in the early 80's. Now that place scares me.
I tend to CC when traveling. Generally don't feel the need for a pistola when I have a rifle, 'cept sometimes a 22LR kill gun. But down there, again, too many "Bad Guys".
Just wanted to add, I always wanted to bass fish and hunt in Old Mex, probably the furthest south I fish now is TX, Okieland, or that third world country, Arkansas.
[ April 18, 2023, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted April 18, 2023 01:46 PM
South of El Paso in Chihuahua there is a Lake Guzman, I just wonder what it's like in the time of the cartels? Maybe I don't want to know? Just when I never thought Mexico could get more fucked up, it is certified insanity to travel down there anymore. And, believe it or t, I used to hop the border fence once in a while to retrieve a Mexican coyote that I couldn't entice in crossing the fence which used to be a double 4 strand bobbed wire, with the monuments set up another 20-30 feet past the wire. I never measured the monuments but they were spaced out maybe every quarter mile, and I assumed that was the actual international boundary. On the other hand I remember years ago traveling the border road in New Mexico that goes towards El Paso. That fence had red metal signs announcing that it was the Federal Republic of Mexico, and there was an abandoned elevated railroad track and a telegraph line on poles with most of the wire down and most of the insulators stolen. It was down along there, around a station, (abandoned) that I killed the biggest bobcat EVER! I took a photo of that cat at night with the headlights and the damned cat was stretched completely across the two track, a big lanky Tom. Should have had that one mounted, and I don't even have the photo any more....and that's a damned shame. I never had to cross the border in New Mexico, this was just west of Columbus, which was where Pancho Villa raided, whenever that was 1908 maybe? Not much had changed last time I passed through. It would be nice if that two headed calf is still on the wall at the Animas gas station and whatever it was, some kind of dance hall? That's some interesting country, for sure. It think it's called San Juan pass, down in that boot area. Way back then, they used to hand dead coyotes from the fences; supposed to be a warning to other coyotes to stay. Gee, as smart as coyotes are, you would think they would get the message? BWAAA HHAA HA
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted April 22, 2023 06:51 AM
Hanging dead coyotes from a fence is still practiced all over the country which is done to show a hero his greatness and not cared for by many of the landowners. Some areas have boots on the fence posts, must have belonged to the guys hanging dead coyotes on the fence. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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