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Author
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Topic: A Tim question;
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 16, 2024 08:13 AM
Or anybody else .........
If I set two callers out side by side playing at 100 decibels each, is the total volume a combined 200 decibels or does it remain at 100 ??????
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 16, 2024 08:50 AM
Sure, and by the same math, if a machine gun has a cyclic rate of 650 per minute, times the decibels, 160 lemme see, cumulative, that's 104,000 decibels. Sounds about right.
(if that were the case)
But, no. I don't know what the theoretical maximum decibels are, or is.
Who know what is the loudest a sound can be or get to a maximum? If an explosion like a gunshot is less than 200, what is the sound value of a bomb?
For instance, what is the temperature of a glass of ice water. All I know is we used to calibrate our thermometers in ice water, meaning a glass full of water and ice cubes and the answer is 32 degrees. Hmm, not a perfet example, I'm sure but some things are not linear.
Take your time, think it over. It's not one of the mysteries of the universe, or anything almost as important.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 01:05 PM
Shame on you Koko I hate tests.
It remains 100 decibels if both callers are playing the exact same sound but also the same brand of caller with same speaker. and also if both callers are set the same for high end of that sound as recorded sound goes up and down depending on what it is.
Did you know that F-P no longer puts sound output in its spec.s sheet on x24?
I used two callers on a stand this winter Lucky duck and my WT. I started with WT to get the sound out there for all to hear and then when they came, I played both callers off and on, or both on to confuse the coyotes and keep them out of my scent. Both was set at full volume. Wasn't concerned about which was louder, just wanted to keep them there and out of scent till I could get a shot. It payed off and I got a nice male at 100 yards.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 01:21 PM
Years back I borrowed a sound meter from company I work for its used to check sound levels around equipment for MSHA/OSHA. It came with a handbook that had a list of varis sounds like gunshot or a bomb blast going off and so on as a guide to what to expect. Same sound meter is used to also test suppressors of different brands to see who's does what as far as sound and how loud but you just splitting hairs there. If anyone still uses Gold wave for downloading or recording sounds, they also have a graph that tells you the ups and downs of that sound spectrum. Also if you go to WT site they will show you a sample of two different callers playing same sound just to show which brand was the loudest.
F-P has a caller out there with two speakers both the same as far as volume goes but allows them to get sound out there in a wider sound cone but does nothing else. does not make the caller any louder.
[ February 16, 2024, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 01:35 PM
If you do a google on gun blast for loudness, they use a 308 or 30-06 I believe for the example. I went so far as to test 17 mach4, 221 F.B. 22-250 imp. and few others. Bigger the case louder the bang and inside dia. of barrel maybe part of this as well and perhaps through in the burn rate of powder used. I didn't take it that far.
I do know when I used my 17 Pred. on coyotes or switched over to the 22-250imp the 17 Pred. was quiet enough to allow me more shots on multiple coyotes or do a call back, not so much when I used the 22-250 imp.. Shooting in the drainages the imp. had a hell of a echo to it.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 16, 2024 02:00 PM
Okay, so just for the heck of it, let's say you have two speakers from one machine. The output is 130Db from each speaker. Seems like the only advantage is to point them in a spread, because apparently it's still 130Db. Right? In any event, there is no multiplying effect, right?
But then, you see, at a football stadium, they will have a whole bank of speakers. What are they getting out of it? It must increase the volume in some manor? You have seen them bundled and they are flared at an angle proportional to the shape of the speaker. The wattage must amplify sound and that's why they need amplifiers.
Fuck, I just don't know the end product? What's going on?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: that's an interesting question: Is a 30'06 louder than a 308? Then, is a 300WinMag louder than a 30'06? Polish logic says higher case volume equals more decibels. What is deciding factor? Is a 25'06 not as loud as a 30'06? Is the difference the bullet weight? Is a 270 half way between a 25'05 and a 30'06 in decibels?
[ February 16, 2024, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 02:29 PM
Both should be same with no increase. Multiple speakers like football field pointed in other directions just getting the sound out there in other directions far as I can tell. The sound is loudest or strongest at center of the sound cone so they just overlapping the sound broadcast so it's the same for everyone kind of like a blanket effect. But then again, I don't know if those speakers are all tied in together or some separate. Depending on their size they are only so loud and I'm sure OSHA has some ruling on how loud they can be so just add more so everyone can hear whatever it is they saying.
Now in my case when I'm calling and don't know exactly where the coyotes are bedded for the day or how far, I have to rotate my caller so I can reach out to them so they can hear enough of it to want to come in. Just sitting it on the ground and pointed in one direction only goes so far. I have some areas I know where the coyotes are so no need to rotate caller unless I get a howl back from another direction farther off then I will turn the caller to that coyote if wind in my favor. Also, louder the caller the closer the coyote thinks the other is or the prey is, so they just keep coming on a string. If it's just a faint sound they may not want to come in or just hearing parts of a sound and not enough of it to get them excited.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 02:37 PM
When I hunted with Roede only time he would pick up the caller and turn it was when we were out at night locating, needed to cover the whole area to get responses and then make note of direction, where and how many. Come back during day and just walk into them and set up as we knew where they were roughly. fewer empty stands this way but one don't always have the time to locate so next best thing is rotate caller and get sound out there.
Edit to add; In town we have a siren (toa speaker) on the water tower for bad weather alert. This speaker rotates as well 360. if pointed directly at the house its loud as hell but as it turns the sound goes down to where I can just barley hear it. Just another example.
[ February 16, 2024, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 16, 2024 03:58 PM
Since I bought my Suppressor all the guns I shoot are quiet:
17 Ackley hornet
17 Tactical
204 Ruger
22-250 Ackley improved
I think I will thread my 6mm Remington next. The one that is the quietest is the 17 Ackley hornet sounds like a pellet gun. All the others sound a little less than a 22long rifle.😁
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 16, 2024, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 04:47 PM
shooting the flat lands I don't worry about it, sound disperses rather quickly. Maybe someday get one just to say hey I got one and when prices drop along with wait time. Kind of got my eye on a truck thermal though.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 16, 2024 05:27 PM
Really has nothing to do with that. Although I have seen a steep increase in multiples going down on a stand since going suppressed. It just makes it nicer to shoot. No ringing ears and I’m all about saving the remaining hearing I have left. Drops felt recoil too. Win win win….
Good Hunting Chad
[ February 16, 2024, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 16, 2024 06:13 PM
If it works for you great. On same note I taken multiples by just using 17 rem. or 17 Pred. not much there for recoil. Saving hearing is debatable.
My hearing loss is due to running heavy equipment even with hearing protection due to exposing oneself for longer hours than supposed to. Sitting at a shooting bench or sitting next to someone else shooting gun can be a issue though. If just me behind the trigger and taking few shots here and there not much of a issue. Come winter though when out of the heavy equipment some of my hearing comes back from being away from the machines and can even hear coyotes howl when on stand. But yeah its something to think about I guess.
Edit to add: Due to my job I have to take a OSHA/MSHA safety course every year and hearing safety is part of that class. Most damage one causes to their hearing is from long term effects. Being on a tractor every day or some machine that has a high dsb rating or shooting a gun in a enclosed or semi enclosed area like bed of a pickup or under a roof can be big issue though so I wear ear muffs.
[ February 16, 2024, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 17, 2024 08:59 AM
Suppressors.
I have a problem. First, when I was in Africa, the impression I got, was that they were used mainly for control work, thinning the herd, culling. And, they were as available as flashlights or any other common tools.
Therefore, the whole idea, concept that we need to make application to the ATF and they fuck around for 8-10 months and charge me two hundred bucks for the privilege just rugs me the wrong way.
Then, the manufacturers want (I think) about $1,000 to $1,200 for something not very complicated to screw on to a $600 pistol or a thousand dollar rifle. and the proportion seems way out of wack, value wise. A pistol seems a lot more sophisticated, than a tube with baffles in it? They use Inconel and Titanium; big fucking deal!
Then, there is the same attitude as buying a Tesla. Envy. It's a status thing. I feel insignificant because I haven't the money, or am too cheap to buy that muffler, while I am wearing ear plugs or head phones.
I think it's a bit of a con game like being the first on the block to own some fad thing like a hula hoop or any other Rubic's cube that is the latest fad.
So, you spend the $200 tax stamp, plus $1,000 for the suppresser plus whatever is the charge to have your barrel threaded? What is that, maybe $50? That's a lot of money just to be associated with the cool kids.
I realize you can transfer them to several different rifles and it's not necessary to buy 15, if you happen to own 15 rifles and I think I own at least that many.
Anyway, that's just a few random thoughts that bother me about the whole deal and I could be totally off base?
Comments?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Besides: my hearing has been shot since my early 20's. I sure as hell could have and should have made a claim to the US Army but didn't.
[ February 17, 2024, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 11:32 AM
I have no argument with anything you said. Are they overpriced yes I think so. Is the tax stamp total BS. Absolutely. But after having one now for several years I would not go back for anything. It is just amazing the difference. I have been on stand with guys that still don’t shoot suppressed and there gun regardless the caliber sounds like a cannon compared to any of my suppressed rifles. And like you said I only had to do it once. I will probably never buy another one but I’m glad I have this one.
Good Hunting Chad
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 17, 2024 12:18 PM
UT what bullet you using in Ackley and what brand suppressor?
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 12:39 PM
I’m shooting 60 grain Bergers from a 22” barrel at right around 3700 fps. With a 7” Thunderbeast suppressor.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 17, 2024 06:11 PM
And what's your load? H414?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 06:22 PM
38.5 grains of RL15. Before I cut and threaded the barrel it was 26” and was running 3850 fps. But cutting it to 22” dropped the velocity to 3700 fps….
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 17, 2024 08:38 PM
I'm using H-380 for right now and may switch back over to the N-140 or N-540 shooting 52 gr. A-Max, think I'm getting about 3900 fps.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 17, 2024 08:48 PM
Im long out of the big boomers, but when I was running my 22-250 Ackley, H 414 was the ticket, but hey, everyone has their favorite?
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 08:56 PM
I’ve got a bunch of 52, and 55 grain Berger match bullets to try after I run out of the 60’s I have on hand. Figure I can get around 3800 fps with the 55’s and close to 3900 fps with the 52’s.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 09:00 PM
I know what you’re saying though Vic, I really like shooting my 17 Ackley Hornet, and 17 Tactical..My .204 Ruger gets a lot of my attention with 35 grain Bergers running around 3800 fps with a nice 20” barrel in a CZ527…
[ February 17, 2024, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted February 17, 2024 09:54 PM
Always thought I had messed with them all, but the 204 never made it into my hands. That 35 grain Berger at 3800 must be a hell of a wacker?
Closest I had was the .19 Badger, 32 grain Calhoon bullet nudging 3,500 and change, man I loved that little rifle/cartridge. Yet another one that flew the coop!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted February 17, 2024 10:21 PM
I seriously considered a .19-223 years ago but for some reason it never happened.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted February 18, 2024 04:46 AM
Years ago when I settled on just 3-4 rifles for fox and coyotes I tried to stick with one powder or two if I could. Just so happens the 22-250 imp. not real fussy about what powder you use and with a 52 gr. bullet it tends to favor little faster burning powder. N-540 is a higher energy powder and can give you a little more vel. and still have safe load. Same powder works in my 17 rem.,17 Predator and 20x47 Lapua and 22-250.
New barrel on the ackley with new brass so I just used what was available or what I had extra of and that was H-380 for fire-form loads. Tried it in a fire-formed case as well and it works dam good so I'm going to burn up what I have before I switch.
I ran out of RL for the 22-250 so I just used h-380 also. Was shooting some berger 40 gr. in 22-250 but running out so I tested the 52 gr. A-max in the Bagira and found out the H-380 gave tighter groups than the RL did.
Ram-shot big game is another good powder but you can't find it anymore on the shelves which was a favorite high vel. powder for the 20x47, 40-45 gr. bullet going along at 4200 fps. Also for awhile Vitavory was only powders i could get so I have plenty of that now.
Berger bullets have dried up as well.
I bought a 204 this winter hoping to shoot the bergers in it. But had to settle on 40 gr. sierras. My gunsmith has some of the 39 gr. bullets I want to try next. 204 is a tack driver but the action sucks.
For me shooting coyotes at night with a thermal I like fast and flat for distance I'm shooting, less room for error as distance can be off a little when shooting in dark.
If I remember correctly, I did try H-414 years ago in 22-250 and it worked best with 55 and 60 gr. bullets and most likely why I don't use it because I don't shoot those heavy bullets.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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