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Author
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Topic: Another Shooting to Ponder
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 04, 2017 01:10 PM
Not even close. Unjustified shooting. Many reasons why he might not respond to commands; unconscious, might be deaf, didn't speak English, etc.
The officer needs to be stripped of her badge, no room for trigger happy police officers. Maybe prosecuted, especially if the victim is black. <scarcasm>
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted March 04, 2017 02:02 PM
I think she was way too quick on the trigger. I got the feeling after she shoots him and says "oh shit", she realized she made a major mistake.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 04, 2017 05:30 PM
Tough position to be in, but I do think she pulled the trigger because she was startled.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted March 04, 2017 06:09 PM
From what I read it was a bad shoot. She needs to be suspended until a hearing is held. The results of the hearing should determine her fate.
Sgt Joe Friday would have this figured out by now.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted March 04, 2017 06:33 PM
Sgt Joe Friday, the facts sir, nothing but the facts
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted March 04, 2017 08:44 PM
The guy was hiding.......possibly in a position of ambush.
The fact that he was hiding would indicate that he knew police were in the house.
I'm not saying she wasn't a wee bit quick on the trigger but the guy could have avoided the whole thing by complying with police orders.
I have said this before; Obey police commands and if you're being wronged live to let the attorneys fight it out the next day for you.
Instead we have a dirtbag who will get a large settlement at taxpayer expense if he lives and a police officer whose life is pretty much ruined.
This is the kind of shit that's why I drive a forklift instead of a police car for a living.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7579 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 05, 2017 02:52 AM
The suspect shouldn't have been hiding when he knew the police were looking for him. They even announced their presence and called out for him to show his hands. He played a stupid game for certain.
The firing of the female officer's weapon was still a startled response, in my opinion. More of an "AD" so to speak.
Does this rise to the level of a criminal charge? The courts and political climate will determine that.
I appreciate the opinions. I am getting different responses from non-LEO's on different forums.
[ March 05, 2017, 02:59 AM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 05, 2017 06:19 AM
So, what if it was an undocumented, and she had her little girl with her behind the mattress? Point being, rule number one, identify your target.
Of course, if you are hanging your defense on accidental discharge, (an Oops), then fire her and let her get all lawyered up, 'cause she will need it.
Police have powers of arrest and the use of deadly force. No mistakes!
I will show my Neanderthal attitude concerning female cops. They should be summoned for custody of female prisoners and little else. It's like I have always said; since they can't wrassle with the average uncooperative scumbag, (I suspect that) they are too quick to bring out the artillery, X2. I think they cause a partner to be overly protective and have generally dumbed down the job description.
However, my ex brother-in-law, a Lieutenant (retired) with LA County Sheriff's, he said that generally, the females could be counted on to go by the book and have less fuck ups than the men. Maybe so, but when the shit hits the fan, they are no help at all. To pound a beat, at night in a high crime area, they need a training officer to protect them. And, here's my main beef, after 4 or 5 years, she will be in a supervising position while that training officer is still trying to get promoted to O3. This is why half of the Chief of Police in major cities have some chick running the shop. This is called fairness in a politically correct climate of "diversity". And yet, the Liberals have never explained exactly WHY DIVERSITY is needed.
End of rant
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: 49, is there a clear divergence of opinion as to guilt, or responsibility, what ever you want to call it?
[ March 05, 2017, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 05, 2017 09:51 AM
Leonard, I actually posed this question here because I wanted your (collective) opinions.
Many people feel the suspect put himself in a bad position, which I agree with. "Come on out with your hands up" and he would not have been shot.
On the other hand, I agree the female officer over reacted.
Tough call. But I think it will go the way of an accidental discharge / shooting, which I believe is what it was.
25 years ago we had a nervous guy shoot a dude through the bicep. The guy shot was reaching into the glove box and there was a box of bullets in there.
Cop was cleared as an accidental shooting. But, that was 25 years ago.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted March 05, 2017 11:39 AM
quote:
Many people feel the suspect put himself in a bad position, which I agree with. "Come on out with your hands up" and he would not have been shot.
I wonder if he was coming out with his hands up after he knew he was spotted, but she didn't give him a chance to surrender.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 05, 2017 12:00 PM
I'm not exactly buying the reasoning that, the victim was obligated to come out with his hands up because the police had told him that they were looking for him.. There are lots of parole violators that are dragged out of the closet from under a pile of dirty clothes. And, they crawled in there specifically to hide, or under the bed, after they heard the knock on the door. So, you can't say:
quote:
The suspect shouldn't have been hiding when he knew the police were looking for him. They even announced their presence and called out for him to show his hands. He played a stupid game for certain.
Come on, we both have seen enough episodes of COPS to know that faced with arrest and jail, these guys are going to hide in the attic or the closet or behind a mattress. Happens every day and it's never justified for getting shot, "by mistake".
Good hunting. El Bee
PS what I was asking: are all the L.E. opinions consistent with, "his own fault, they called out but he went and hid."
But, the ordinary citizens regardless of the victims actions still blame the cop for negligence?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 06, 2017 02:12 PM
I agree there are no rules set in stone, as in the suspect has to come out. But...and I have heard here numerous times, a little common sense goes a long way.
If I know there are armed police officers looking for me, I think I will come out and do as told. We can settle up in court later. But that's just me.
And to answer your question Leonard....no, I haven't gotten any opinions specifically from other police officers. I addressed my question on a public forum, just like this one, and not on a "cop only" forum. I really wanted to see what the members here and others thought about this.
I am on the fence about this one. I feel the female officer messed up at the very least. Though I don't see anything malicious in her actions.
On the other hand, the suspect could have prevented this by being compliant.
Hence the reason for me looking for opinions from outside of law enforcement.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 06, 2017 04:22 PM
Common sense is rather uncommon amongst the criminal set, first of all. But that failing does not mean they deserve to get shot in the gut.
Normal citizens would be only too eager to comply, and straighten out any perceived misunderstanding Especially knowing a cop has announced the fact that he is looking for him and, (by the way) he has a gun in his nervous little hands.
I don't need to "ponder" the situation very long to conclude that the officer fucked up, career ending, big time. There's no explaining shooting a suspect he couldn't see, hiding behind a mattress. The knee jerk excuse is, oops, it was an accident. That's predictable and too easy.
So, she will never have lunch in this town again and the victim will receive, compliments of me, the taxpayer, several million dollars. I suppose the officer's legal fees will be covered by city liability insurance? I could be all wet on the last issue?
Don't forget, victims shot in the stomach frequently have lifelong complications, and he will probably be encouraged to settle before the problems materialize.
If it doesn't settle out as described above, I would be very surprised.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31459 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 07, 2017 01:37 PM
No doubt the female officer messed up.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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