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Author
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Topic: Chop it off?
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 17, 2016 05:06 AM
My coyote rifle is a 22-250 Rem with a #3 24" SS Krieger barrel. Velocity with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (my coyote load) is right at 3600 fps.
If I were to have the barrel cut down to 21" or even 20", what might be the expected velocity loss be. Would I effectively turn my 250 into a .223 Rem?
The reason I'm even thinking about doing this is for suppressor reasons. I have a beater 223 that I had cut down to 18" and it makes a nice package for the 6" suppressor.
Thanks gents!
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 17, 2016 05:15 AM
30-40fps per inch, is what I reckon you'd lose...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2016 05:25 AM
Yeah, 3 X 40 fps, you are still a little above 223 ballistics. There is a trade off, no free lunch.
I have to wonder about suppressors? Are we worried about this coyote, or is the advantage with the "next" coyote?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Yotehntr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3684
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posted May 17, 2016 06:44 AM
I've wondered what good silencers are on supersonic rifles myself. I have a buddy that uses one on his AR10... it sure isn't "silent" I don't see any advantage for them myself. If it were able to completely wipe out the blast, you'd still have the supersonic crack... Am I missing something on this?
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Yotehntr Calls Put something pretty on your lips! ;)
Posts: 53 | From: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: Oct 2010
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted May 17, 2016 06:55 AM
Both, I have seen with a heavy wind and a miss for the coyote not to recognize the threat. I have also seen more than one double where his buddy falls down and the one left standing doesn't recognize the danger either. Too busy wondering what's wrong with Larry! It also makes it hard to pin down where the noise came from.
Then there is the simple fact of your ears and most importantly my dogs ears that are standing in front of you off to the side when you shoot.
I wanted to add on the first double I ever shot suppressed I had a dog on stand that had seen a lot of coyotes and knew the game. She did not recognize that a shot had been taken when I killed the first coyote. This alone made me take notice. Now granted it didn't take her long to adjust to the new sound, but seeing this I knew it was a game changer for myself.
I am running a 20" 22-250 and a 20" 243 and see no reason for a longer barrel. For one season I ran a 26" 6 XC. Never again a pain in the ass.
I say cut it to 20".
I think the suppressor made a big difference on the double I shot on Sat. and the triple I shot on Sun. I have shot plenty of coyotes before a suppressor and plenty afterwards and there is a marked difference.
Brent
[ May 17, 2016, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Brent Parker ]
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2016 07:26 AM
Okay, fair enough. Now let's talk about the jump through a hoop regulations, and the outrageous cost for a relatively simple device. I mean the damned thing costs as much as a laptop; compare the technology.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 17, 2016 08:12 AM
I agree Leonard. I heard tell that the tax might be eliminated, then if they could bring the price down on them by at least half it might be worth consideration.
Good Hunting Chad
[ May 17, 2016, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2016 08:24 AM
Didn't know that? Yes, I suppose that would make a difference. There is a principle involved. Not that $1200 would break the bank, or $200, and 6-8 months of waiting would either. I just think in both cases, we are being played for suckers. Besides, that is a seriously ugly appendage out on the end of the barrel
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 17, 2016 08:43 AM
Haven't read all the replies, so might be just going along with what everyone is saying.
But, I have two suppressors ordered. Coyotes got nothing to do with it. My hearing - what little I have left, has everything to do with it.
I really wish, I'd have done whatever needed done and started using them several decades ago.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 17, 2016 08:49 AM
Okay, did just read the replies
Cost? Are you fucking kidding me? For this hobby? Okay. Whatever...
I ordered pretty much the most expensive one I could find. Then ordered brake attachments for five barrels. Now I'm going to pay to have five barrels chopped and threaded. That's just for the centerfire can. Doing five barrels for the rimfire one too.
I priced good hearing aids about five years ago. Couldn't get one fucking ear wired up for what all of the above is costing me. And I'd need two...
And, have spent more, than all of the above, on a single scope, more than once.
Have spent way fucking more than the above on any number of custom rifles.
Have spent way more than the above in two months just on gas to go coyote hunting.
And I'd spend all of the above, a few times over, to have my hearing back.
Cost? It's ants in the afterbirth. In the grand scheme, it ain't shit!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 17, 2016 08:54 AM
Oh, to Lonny's original question...
Agree with the ~40 fps inch. Could be a little more, a little less, but that will be ballpark.
I'm conflicted on the barrel chopping, myself. Got a few, I'm just not willing. I had them built for performance and don't want to lose a couple hundred fps. Just don't want to.
So, I'm leaving a couple long, having a couple chopped short, having one somewhere in the middle. Will play with them all for awhile and know better where I want to be in the future.
FWIW... I'm leaving my main squeeze, my .17P, long. And not cutting anything off my main hot rod, 6.284, either. But, I already cut my .20-250 to 19". Haven't clocked it, or even shot it at that length yet, but expect measly .204R performance at best, now.
Like I said, conflicted on the chopping, myself. Going to try it both ways.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2016 09:11 AM
Yes, but there is the principle involved. And, I know how much this stuff costs. Reread the part about what is essentially a hunk of machined metal. what about justifying that payment to Department of the Treasury? What about the wait, in this instantaneous electronic age?
But seriously. Nobody here has worse hearing loss than I do. Serious Military hearing loss. Constant ringing is a big part of it. But, it seems to me that as I go along, my hearing isn't any worse today than it was 25 years ago? What's done is done. I can't exactly prove it, but I have had 30-378's go off at the next table. It just seems to hit a plateau and that's it? It's interference, spoken words. I can't tell the "e" sound from the "s" sound from the "f" sound. They all have a certain high pitched hissing and it's difficult to distinguish one from another, if I am making myself understandable about the concept of ringing at certain frequencies? And, I already bought the digital hearing aids. They work; but only for specified things, you never get over the interference, the ringing.
Yes, for me, I am not kidding, the cost. And few people have spent more doing this shit than I have.
Anyway, I might just do it, but I'm not kidding myself, it's highway robbery.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted May 17, 2016 09:18 AM
It cost's what it cost's. How much money have you pissed away on other shit. Look at the cost of cell phone. Talk about highway robbery, but we still have one. 200 tax stamp, I don't like it but again it is what it is. I have 4 suppressors and a SBR and two more suppressors coming. I'll make more money. I've pissed more away on woman than suppressors and sbr's and tax stamps.
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted May 17, 2016 09:34 AM
I am not a tight ass when it comes to hunting by any stretch of the imagination. But when I have seen guys use a damn 5 dollar oil filter to accomplish the same damn thing it bothers me alittle to think of paying 1200.00 for one. Kinda like saying I have this Critr call that is great at calling coyotes and I'll sell it to you for 200.00 bucks. I think if and when the suppressors aren't so regulated which it seems like is the direction its going, you'll see the price go way down.
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 17, 2016 09:56 AM
It's doubtful anybody has pissed away more money on friggin' coyotes than I have! I think Chad come close to my attitude.
When it comes to hunting these critters, I can't justify it, but for some reason, this suppressor stuff feels like I'm getting fuked without the kiss.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31449 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 17, 2016 10:04 AM
Leonard, had the ringing for over 25 years myself. Understand only too well, what you mean about the frequency etc.
A difference though, I can tell mine just keeps getting worse, and worse. Practically with every shot I'm not wearing ear plugs. And I don't really think that is exaggerating.
This past weekend, I wore ear plugs for every shot with the centerfire and "most shots" with the .17 HMR. But, I did take four or five shots with the HMR without ear plugs. Now, that thing is not very loud. More than a .22LR, but not much. But, I swear, I've got a little extra ring going this week, a little tiny bit more "distance" on all the sounds in my daily environment.
Even shooting jackrabbits with my .22 Mag. I started wearing ear plugs to do that a few years ago. PITA, jumpshooting jacks with a rimfire and having to wear ear plugs. But, one walk, maybe 25 shots of .22 Mag, without them, and my ears were noticeably worse - forever.
Personally, I can not WAIT to put a silencer on my rimfires! I shoot them the most and it's just going to be sooooo nice not dicking with ear plugs anymore.
Not to mention, how much nicer it will be shooting them with the kids. Communication when we all have ear plugs in sucks ass. I usually end up leaving mine out a lot, when they are shooting, so I can try and hear what everyone is saying. Purely a safety deal, with kids. Again, just going to be soooooo nice not needing the plugs in that situation. And, again, a few hundred rounds of .22LR and the ringing gets turned up a few notches for a week or two.
I sure hope the tax stamp goes away and it gets easier to buy them. But, my pure speculation, is, it ain't gonna happen. And, if I were betting any money on it, I'd say they are only going to get harder and more expensive to buy after Hillary is president. Heck, they are going to be a bit harder to buy starting in July, new regs already in place. And, the language on the new, already existing regs is vague enough, that a hard ass bureaucrat could make it a whole lot harder, just by interpretation.
Seriously, no joke - if you've been thinking about getting one, get it now. Like, right now!
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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trapper2
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3651
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posted May 17, 2016 12:34 PM
while using one with hogs you cant tell , they don't know where its coming from and they are just as likely to run right at you as to run away, sure helps get more of the group
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nothing is politically correct if its morally wrong
Posts: 248 | From: okla | Registered: Sep 2010
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted May 17, 2016 01:01 PM
I like the idea of suppressed though I cannot afford it if I could I would do it to everything I own. I would not do it thinking necessarily of a hunting advantage just for taking the report down for myself. Yes it would make for some long guns.
[ May 17, 2016, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 17, 2016 02:43 PM
Like Dave, I went suppressed more to save my hearing than I did any other single reason. After 4.5 seasons of calling coyotes with the suppressor, I am convinced that it has also helped put a few more in the back of the truck along the way.
When I tried to sell the idea to my wife, about spending the money, it was an easy sell, once she heard my friends suppressed rifle and then compare the cost of a suppressor to the cost of hearing aids. I'll settle for the lack of hearing aids for now, thank you very much.
I won't shoot without a suppressor now and I hate calling next to a guy without one on his rifle. Makes me cringe when someone on stand shoots unsuppressed, plus makes me about jump out of my skin if I don't know it's coming. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I only had one rifle built with a short barrel, the rest I've just had threaded and run'em like I bought em. After a while, you don't even notice the thing on the rifle, and you certainly can't feel it out there either when handling any rifle. Or at least I can't feel mine, but it is about as small and light as you can go as far as suppressors go.
[ May 17, 2016, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 17, 2016 03:10 PM
Thanks for the reply's gents. Since 40 fps per inch seems to kinda be the consensus, I gotta figure out if I can live with 3450ish. Honestly, I'll probably not notice the velocity loss, but I know I will like a rifle with an overall barrel length of 26" or so. Just hard to go for it since its final once its cut shorter.
DAA, I'd sure like to hear what you find with the various barrel lengths you will have to play with using your suppressor.
Leonard, back to your initial question of why.
Initially, my reason for a suppressor was for coyote hunting and the extra shot or not spoiling all stands within earshot when a guy shoots on stand. All that has turned out to be very real after using it last winter.
After having a suppressor though, the hearing prevention thing is also very real to me now. I figure I normally shoot 30 or so times a year in a hunting situation without hearing protection. Multiply that by 20 years and it sure adds up.
Another is shooting suppressed flat-out makes shooting more fun. Being able to shoot and communicate without earplugs, less recoil, seeing hits, is all very nice. You can hear hits amazingly well.
I was shooting ground squirrels the other day with a buddy that has a 17 Fireball. That little pipsqueak cartridge seemed obnoxiously loud when I had my earplugs out. I've had several people shoot with my suppressor and their first reaction is "I'm sold"
I wish the whole deal didn't require giving up velocity by shortening the barrel, but I'm heading that way right now.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 17, 2016 03:16 PM
DAA,
What suppressors did you go with for your CF's and RF's?
I need to get a going on a rimfire suppressor before long and was wondering what you came up with?
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Yotehntr
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3684
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posted May 17, 2016 03:42 PM
Thanks Brent, seems odd they don't see it as a threat.
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Yotehntr Calls Put something pretty on your lips! ;)
Posts: 53 | From: Murfreesboro, TN | Registered: Oct 2010
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 17, 2016 04:33 PM
Yote,
Coyotes still think the sound of something going "bang" is bad. What changes in my opinion, is to a coyotes ears, the bang is coming from much further away or they can't locate the direction it came from. In just one season of use, I've had coyotes run towards me or be unsure which way to go after a shot. Something that was pretty rare for me when un-suppressed.
Early last spring, I was target shooting across a draw that is about 400-500 yards wide. I've target shot at this spot many times and normally, at the first shot, any deer in the draw clear out in a hurry by boiling over the ridge. This was the first time I had shot with my new suppressor here and I must have shot 50 times at least, when up the draw and about 250 yards from my target and about 400 from me a half dozen deer walked out and started feeding.
There was a mild breeze blowing which I'm sure helped muffle the sound even more, but these deer showed no reaction at all and I just kept on shooting. This was just after the close of a 4 month season where deer are scared as heck of gunshots and people.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted May 17, 2016 05:09 PM
A note on velocity loss. I cut several down 4 inches and the loss was closer to 25 or 30 fps per inch. I had no problem tweaking loads or powder slightly to gain most of that back. So overall it was very minimal. Cost of a suppressor, knowing what I know now, I'd pay double if I had to!
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 17, 2016 05:36 PM
My experience with lopping barrels is more in line with Cals. On certain calibers such as .243,.308 and .22-250, the loss is minimal, more around 25fps per inch, not enough to make me blink, but some guys love every fps they can squeeze out of a barrel?
My .22-250 Ackley, I had cut down to 20", and with a 50 grain bullet, could still break 4,000fps. I'd cut that barrel in a heartbeat if that's your desire to accommodate a suppressor.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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