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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 17, 2016, 05:06 AM:
 
My coyote rifle is a 22-250 Rem with a #3 24" SS Krieger barrel. Velocity with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip (my coyote load) is right at 3600 fps.

If I were to have the barrel cut down to 21" or even 20", what might be the expected velocity loss be. Would I effectively turn my 250 into a .223 Rem?

The reason I'm even thinking about doing this is for suppressor reasons. I have a beater 223 that I had cut down to 18" and it makes a nice package for the 6" suppressor.

Thanks gents!
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 17, 2016, 05:15 AM:
 
30-40fps per inch, is what I reckon you'd lose...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2016, 05:25 AM:
 
Yeah, 3 X 40 fps, you are still a little above 223 ballistics. There is a trade off, no free lunch.

I have to wonder about suppressors? Are we worried about this coyote, or is the advantage with the "next" coyote?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Yotehntr (Member # 3684) on May 17, 2016, 06:44 AM:
 
I've wondered what good silencers are on supersonic rifles myself. I have a buddy that uses one on his AR10... it sure isn't "silent" I don't see any advantage for them myself. If it were able to completely wipe out the blast, you'd still have the supersonic crack... Am I missing something on this?
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on May 17, 2016, 06:55 AM:
 
Both, I have seen with a heavy wind and a miss for the coyote not to recognize the threat. I have also seen more than one double where his buddy falls down and the one left standing doesn't recognize the danger either. Too busy wondering what's wrong with Larry! It also makes it hard to pin down where the noise came from.

Then there is the simple fact of your ears and most importantly my dogs ears that are standing in front of you off to the side when you shoot.

I wanted to add on the first double I ever shot suppressed I had a dog on stand that had seen a lot of coyotes and knew the game. She did not recognize that a shot had been taken when I killed the first coyote. This alone made me take notice. Now granted it didn't take her long to adjust to the new sound, but seeing this I knew it was a game changer for myself.

I am running a 20" 22-250 and a 20" 243 and see no reason for a longer barrel. For one season I ran a 26" 6 XC. Never again a pain in the ass.

I say cut it to 20".

I think the suppressor made a big difference on the double I shot on Sat. and the triple I shot on Sun. I have shot plenty of coyotes before a suppressor and plenty afterwards and there is a marked difference.

Brent

[ May 17, 2016, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Brent Parker ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2016, 07:26 AM:
 
Okay, fair enough. Now let's talk about the jump through a hoop regulations, and the outrageous cost for a relatively simple device. I mean the damned thing costs as much as a laptop; compare the technology.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 17, 2016, 08:12 AM:
 
I agree Leonard. I heard tell that the tax might be eliminated, then if they could bring the price down on them by at least half it might be worth consideration.

Good Hunting Chad

[ May 17, 2016, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2016, 08:24 AM:
 
Didn't know that? Yes, I suppose that would make a difference. There is a principle involved. Not that $1200 would break the bank, or $200, and 6-8 months of waiting would either. I just think in both cases, we are being played for suckers. Besides, that is a seriously ugly appendage out on the end of the barrel

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2016, 08:43 AM:
 
Haven't read all the replies, so might be just going along with what everyone is saying.

But, I have two suppressors ordered. Coyotes got nothing to do with it. My hearing - what little I have left, has everything to do with it.

I really wish, I'd have done whatever needed done and started using them several decades ago.

- DAA
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2016, 08:49 AM:
 
Okay, did just read the replies

Cost? Are you fucking kidding me? For this hobby? Okay. Whatever...

I ordered pretty much the most expensive one I could find. Then ordered brake attachments for five barrels. Now I'm going to pay to have five barrels chopped and threaded. That's just for the centerfire can. Doing five barrels for the rimfire one too.

I priced good hearing aids about five years ago. Couldn't get one fucking ear wired up for what all of the above is costing me. And I'd need two...

And, have spent more, than all of the above, on a single scope, more than once.

Have spent way fucking more than the above on any number of custom rifles.

Have spent way more than the above in two months just on gas to go coyote hunting.

And I'd spend all of the above, a few times over, to have my hearing back.

Cost? It's ants in the afterbirth. In the grand scheme, it ain't shit!

- DAA
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2016, 08:54 AM:
 
Oh, to Lonny's original question...

Agree with the ~40 fps inch. Could be a little more, a little less, but that will be ballpark.

I'm conflicted on the barrel chopping, myself. Got a few, I'm just not willing. I had them built for performance and don't want to lose a couple hundred fps. Just don't want to.

So, I'm leaving a couple long, having a couple chopped short, having one somewhere in the middle. Will play with them all for awhile and know better where I want to be in the future.

FWIW... I'm leaving my main squeeze, my .17P, long. And not cutting anything off my main hot rod, 6.284, either. But, I already cut my .20-250 to 19". Haven't clocked it, or even shot it at that length yet, but expect measly .204R performance at best, now.

Like I said, conflicted on the chopping, myself. Going to try it both ways.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2016, 09:11 AM:
 
Yes, but there is the principle involved. And, I know how much this stuff costs. Reread the part about what is essentially a hunk of machined metal. what about justifying that payment to Department of the Treasury? What about the wait, in this instantaneous electronic age?

But seriously. Nobody here has worse hearing loss than I do. Serious Military hearing loss. Constant ringing is a big part of it. But, it seems to me that as I go along, my hearing isn't any worse today than it was 25 years ago? What's done is done. I can't exactly prove it, but I have had 30-378's go off at the next table. It just seems to hit a plateau and that's it? It's interference, spoken words. I can't tell the "e" sound from the "s" sound from the "f" sound. They all have a certain high pitched hissing and it's difficult to distinguish one from another, if I am making myself understandable about the concept of ringing at certain frequencies? And, I already bought the digital hearing aids. They work; but only for specified things, you never get over the interference, the ringing.

Yes, for me, I am not kidding, the cost. And few people have spent more doing this shit than I have.

Anyway, I might just do it, but I'm not kidding myself, it's highway robbery.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on May 17, 2016, 09:18 AM:
 
It cost's what it cost's. How much money have you pissed away on other shit. Look at the cost of cell phone. Talk about highway robbery, but we still have one. 200 tax stamp, I don't like it but again it is what it is. I have 4 suppressors and a SBR and two more suppressors coming. I'll make more money. I've pissed more away on woman than suppressors and sbr's and tax stamps.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on May 17, 2016, 09:34 AM:
 
I am not a tight ass when it comes to hunting by any stretch of the imagination. But when I have seen guys use a damn 5 dollar oil filter to accomplish the same damn thing it bothers me alittle to think of paying 1200.00 for one. Kinda like saying I have this Critr call that is great at calling coyotes and I'll sell it to you for 200.00 bucks. I think if and when the suppressors aren't so regulated which it seems like is the direction its going, you'll see the price go way down.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2016, 09:56 AM:
 
It's doubtful anybody has pissed away more money on friggin' coyotes than I have! I think Chad come close to my attitude.

When it comes to hunting these critters, I can't justify it, but for some reason, this suppressor stuff feels like I'm getting fuked without the kiss.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2016, 10:04 AM:
 
Leonard, had the ringing for over 25 years myself. Understand only too well, what you mean about the frequency etc.

A difference though, I can tell mine just keeps getting worse, and worse. Practically with every shot I'm not wearing ear plugs. And I don't really think that is exaggerating.

This past weekend, I wore ear plugs for every shot with the centerfire and "most shots" with the .17 HMR. But, I did take four or five shots with the HMR without ear plugs. Now, that thing is not very loud. More than a .22LR, but not much. But, I swear, I've got a little extra ring going this week, a little tiny bit more "distance" on all the sounds in my daily environment.

Even shooting jackrabbits with my .22 Mag. I started wearing ear plugs to do that a few years ago. PITA, jumpshooting jacks with a rimfire and having to wear ear plugs. But, one walk, maybe 25 shots of .22 Mag, without them, and my ears were noticeably worse - forever.

Personally, I can not WAIT to put a silencer on my rimfires! I shoot them the most and it's just going to be sooooo nice not dicking with ear plugs anymore.

Not to mention, how much nicer it will be shooting them with the kids. Communication when we all have ear plugs in sucks ass. I usually end up leaving mine out a lot, when they are shooting, so I can try and hear what everyone is saying. Purely a safety deal, with kids. Again, just going to be soooooo nice not needing the plugs in that situation. And, again, a few hundred rounds of .22LR and the ringing gets turned up a few notches for a week or two.

I sure hope the tax stamp goes away and it gets easier to buy them. But, my pure speculation, is, it ain't gonna happen. And, if I were betting any money on it, I'd say they are only going to get harder and more expensive to buy after Hillary is president. Heck, they are going to be a bit harder to buy starting in July, new regs already in place. And, the language on the new, already existing regs is vague enough, that a hard ass bureaucrat could make it a whole lot harder, just by interpretation.

Seriously, no joke - if you've been thinking about getting one, get it now. Like, right now!

- DAA
 

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Posted by trapper2 (Member # 3651) on May 17, 2016, 12:34 PM:
 
while using one with hogs you cant tell , they don't know where its coming from and they are just as likely to run right at you as to run away, sure helps get more of the group
 

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Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 17, 2016, 01:01 PM:
 
I like the idea of suppressed though I cannot afford it if I could I would do it to everything I own. I would not do it thinking necessarily of a hunting advantage just for taking the report down for myself. Yes it would make for some long guns.

[ May 17, 2016, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 17, 2016, 02:43 PM:
 
Like Dave, I went suppressed more to save my hearing than I did any other single reason. After 4.5 seasons of calling coyotes with the suppressor, I am convinced that it has also helped put a few more in the back of the truck along the way.
When I tried to sell the idea to my wife, about spending the money, it was an easy sell, once she heard my friends suppressed rifle and then compare the cost of a suppressor to the cost of hearing aids. I'll settle for the lack of hearing aids for now, thank you very much.
I won't shoot without a suppressor now and I hate calling next to a guy without one on his rifle. Makes me cringe when someone on stand shoots unsuppressed, plus makes me about jump out of my skin if I don't know it's coming.
I only had one rifle built with a short barrel, the rest I've just had threaded and run'em like I bought em. After a while, you don't even notice the thing on the rifle, and you certainly can't feel it out there either when handling any rifle. Or at least I can't feel mine, but it is about as small and light as you can go as far as suppressors go.

[ May 17, 2016, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: TRnCO ]
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 17, 2016, 03:10 PM:
 
Thanks for the reply's gents. Since 40 fps per inch seems to kinda be the consensus, I gotta figure out if I can live with 3450ish. Honestly, I'll probably not notice the velocity loss, but I know I will like a rifle with an overall barrel length of 26" or so. Just hard to go for it since its final once its cut shorter.

DAA, I'd sure like to hear what you find with the various barrel lengths you will have to play with using your suppressor.

Leonard, back to your initial question of why.

Initially, my reason for a suppressor was for coyote hunting and the extra shot or not spoiling all stands within earshot when a guy shoots on stand. All that has turned out to be very real after using it last winter.

After having a suppressor though, the hearing prevention thing is also very real to me now. I figure I normally shoot 30 or so times a year in a hunting situation without hearing protection. Multiply that by 20 years and it sure adds up.

Another is shooting suppressed flat-out makes shooting more fun. Being able to shoot and communicate without earplugs, less recoil, seeing hits, is all very nice. You can hear hits amazingly well.

I was shooting ground squirrels the other day with a buddy that has a 17 Fireball. That little pipsqueak cartridge seemed obnoxiously loud when I had my earplugs out. I've had several people shoot with my suppressor and their first reaction is "I'm sold"

I wish the whole deal didn't require giving up velocity by shortening the barrel, but I'm heading that way right now.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 17, 2016, 03:16 PM:
 
DAA,

What suppressors did you go with for your CF's and RF's?

I need to get a going on a rimfire suppressor before long and was wondering what you came up with?
 

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Posted by Yotehntr (Member # 3684) on May 17, 2016, 03:42 PM:
 
Thanks Brent, seems odd they don't see it as a threat.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 17, 2016, 04:33 PM:
 
Yote,

Coyotes still think the sound of something going "bang" is bad. What changes in my opinion, is to a coyotes ears, the bang is coming from much further away or they can't locate the direction it came from. In just one season of use, I've had coyotes run towards me or be unsure which way to go after a shot. Something that was pretty rare for me when un-suppressed.

Early last spring, I was target shooting across a draw that is about 400-500 yards wide. I've target shot at this spot many times and normally, at the first shot, any deer in the draw clear out in a hurry by boiling over the ridge. This was the first time I had shot with my new suppressor here and I must have shot 50 times at least, when up the draw and about 250 yards from my target and about 400 from me a half dozen deer walked out and started feeding.

There was a mild breeze blowing which I'm sure helped muffle the sound even more, but these deer showed no reaction at all and I just kept on shooting. This was just after the close of a 4 month season where deer are scared as heck of gunshots and people.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on May 17, 2016, 05:09 PM:
 
A note on velocity loss. I cut several down 4 inches and the loss was closer to 25 or 30 fps per inch. I had no problem tweaking loads or powder slightly to gain most of that back. So overall it was very minimal. Cost of a suppressor, knowing what I know now, I'd pay double if I had to!
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 17, 2016, 05:36 PM:
 
My experience with lopping barrels is more in line with Cals. On certain calibers such as .243,.308 and .22-250, the loss is minimal, more around 25fps per inch, not enough to make me blink, but some guys love every fps they can squeeze out of a barrel?
My .22-250 Ackley, I had cut down to 20", and with a 50 grain bullet, could still break 4,000fps. I'd cut that barrel in a heartbeat if that's your desire to accommodate a suppressor.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 17, 2016, 07:02 PM:
 
Lonny, I have a TBAC Ultra 7 coming for CF and a SiCo Specter II for rim fire. Awaiting approval on both. Ordered the TBAC in February. Just ordered the SiCo a couple weeks ago.

- DAA
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2016, 04:39 AM:
 
Everybody knows I'm a hard headed, opinionated dinosaur.

Right now, my main objections are aesthetics, might as well weld a damned anvil on the end of the barrel, maybe two to make sure you snag every bush possible.

But, if it is such a wonderful improvement, (not really disputing this) then I would think regulatory and insurance interests would clamor for free suppressors? Possibly make them mandatory, protect the environment from noise pollution?

Sure, some of you guys wouldn't hunt with me now because I am unmufflered, and some of you would pay TWICE what it now costs! Boy, is this the SECOND COMING, or what?

I dunno? I might have to wait until they make them MANDATORY, which, the way this country is turning Liberal and DICTATORIAL, might not be so far off?

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on May 18, 2016, 04:41 AM:
 
Looks like we can all agree that suppressors are useless for coyote hunting!

Glad we got that settled...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2016, 04:55 AM:
 
Fred, I love you like a son, never mind that I have a grandson your age, but anyway; Just think about it for a second. I have been hunting coyotes since before you were born. Someday, that fact might have meaning for you.

So. I think you are acting disrespectful.

I don't like to pull rank because I'm the head MFIC, never have been that way. Some, like he who shall not be named believe differently.

I believe elders deserve and are entitled to a small amount of respect. And, it costs you nothing. Even when I was a brash 20something, I deferred to experience and age. In fact, I suddenly remember, this time an older Master Sergeant was about to do something quite dangerous because he didn't think anybody was willing to do it for him, and hesitated issuing an order. I surprised him and stepped up to the plate, and it was the right thing to do, especially since I knew I could do it a lot better than he could and it had to be done. That was over 50 years ago, and I don't ever recall patting myself on the back for it, either? But, I should mention, not a few hours before, another man had fallen and broke his back attempting the same thing, and was discharged, out of the Army within the month. Starting to ramble, so I should rap it up, no doubt.

Good hunting. El Bee

[ May 18, 2016, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on May 18, 2016, 10:27 AM:
 
I was a hard head and just went suppressed. Should have done this years ago.

The tax deal I think is here to stay. Too much money to give up.

Cant bring myself to cut the 22-243AI down, but just chopped a 204AI off to 20" to match the 243AI.

A suppressor is worth all the bullshit even if you never shoot another coyote. Just do it.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2016, 10:55 AM:
 
That's a strong endorsement, Kelly. I'm leaning.
 

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Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on May 18, 2016, 10:56 AM:
 
Interesting article on the subject.

http://www.guns.com/2012/02/16/the-myth-of-barrel-length-and-velocity-loss/

I bought a Kimber 84M Classic in 22-250 sometime about 2005. Nice rifle but it came with a 22" barrel which actually measured a little less. I was always concerned about how it would perform at long range but stopped one day when calling by a large dry lake in Eastern Oregon.

To make a long story short I called in a coyote that came clear across the dry lake bed then hung up a long way out. I watched him through the scope and when he started to move left apparently in an attempt to wind me I thought I'd better try a shot. So I did. I didn't see the bullet hit him but he wasn't visible after the shot was taken. I had the Leupold LR crosshair on the 4-12 scope and used a single mil dot above the crosshair.

I continued to call and got a second coyote at about 30 yards. Nothing else showed so I got my truck and drove out to see if I could find the first coyote. He was stone cold dead and had fallen into a low spot. I bought a Leupold range finder from Cabelas and the next time I went to call that spot I ranged it at something like 416 yards. I quit worrying about the shorter barrel that day.

I've made a longer shot but it was with a 243 and a 75 grain bullet. Sun was coming up and I just took a potshot as a joke. I was shocked when I heard the bullet hit the cat and saw the eyes slide down the bolder he'd been sitting on.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2016, 11:26 AM:
 
I'm not totally convinced by that article, Moe. In the first place, they don't say, and I highly doubt that the load was changed while he was cutting off all those inches of barrel. While there is some mention of the powder being completely burned within 3" if I read it correctly; that is most certainly not always the case. Plenty of times, while hunting at night with a short barrel, you can see as much as ten feet of flame coming out the end of the barrel.

Second, while it may not happen in the first or second inch, by the time you have cut six inches off the barrel, it will justify using a faster burning powder, particularly slow extruded powder.

So, with various hot 22 and 24 calibers there is much talk about 30, 40 and 50fps loss by parting off your barrel. This guy claims (damn, I already forgot?) was it 15fps? So, everybody's wrong and this guy is right.

I believe the higher numbers, personally and it really pains me to think of the strived for performance being lopped off. Almost seems criminal?But now, instead of the "Velocity Gods", we are bowing to the "Suppressor Gods". Everything's the same, only different.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on May 18, 2016, 12:03 PM:
 

quote:

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I was a hard head .........Should have done this years ago

The tax deal I think is here to stay. Too much money to give up.

.........

A suppressor is worth all the bullshit even if you never shoot another coyote. Just do it.

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This!!! Heard it from many and felt the same way myself. I have two and getting a third.

[ May 18, 2016, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 18, 2016, 12:50 PM:
 
El Bee..............
You're missing the best reason to put SILENCERS on the SNIPER RIFLES in your ARSENAL.

> It would piss the liberals off & give them heartburn.


 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on May 18, 2016, 01:02 PM:
 
You guys be careful, cutting those barrels down is getting you close to 223 velocity and we all know those won't kill squat.

My 22-250AI has a 22" barrel and the first load I tried got me over 3800 fps with a 55 grain bullet. I haven't seen the need to try for more.
 

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Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on May 18, 2016, 01:09 PM:
 
On the barrel length and velocity...

I have no experience chopping a barrel. A real apples to apples deal.

I do have a lot of experience running the same chambering in different length barrels. More of an apples to oranges deal.

I am sure I'm forgetting some, but, to include, .22-250 in 22, 24 and 26 inch barrels. The .22.250AI in 26, 27 and 29 inch barrels. The .223 in 20 and 24 inch. The .20BR in 24 and 26 inch. The .22BR in 24 and 29 inch. The .17 Mach IV in 20 and 24 inch.

My experience, again, not with chopping (the real subject), but with different length barrels. For cases in the .22-250 class, that 40 fps is what I've seen.

Seen more, more than a few times. That is to say, 100 fps difference between 24 and 26, with two different .22-250's. Which, is NOT the same, as chopping the SAME barrel, from 26 to 24.

But, like I said, never actually chopped one. And, again, no experience (yet) but have heard, that putting a 7" suppressor on a chopped barrel has a measurable effect and you'll see less velocity loss compared to the bare, chopped barrel. Make sense. But, still will have to see it to believe it.

Give me another year or so and I'll have a shit load of first hand data...

- DAA
 

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Posted by Brent Parker (Member # 4354) on May 18, 2016, 02:13 PM:
 
Leonard,

I hope that I have been fair with everyone in my thoughts and experiences with a suppressor. I do not claim to have your experience killing coyotes. I would like to think though that I have enough experience and time under my belt to be able to make a rational augment concerning suppressor use on called coyotes. Everyone I have talked to has heard the story of my first season of calling with a suppressor and I took more doubles that season than all the others here prior. Perhaps luck comes in some and so does coyote numbers as they cycle up, but in my opinion and experience you (whoever) are leaving coyotes you would have taken by not running a suppressor. I have heard many guys tell me that they won't wait or spend the money. I always tell myself good. I will take any advantage over my competition I can get.

Now as far as barrel length goes, seems like forever now but when I moved out here I ran a 20" .17 Remington with a 9 twist barrel and everything I shot with it fell down and died. Granted my ranges were shorter on average and I only fur hunted. Yes I had a few runners and even lost a few. Dam few but none the less a few. A good dog saved me a few times. But I have never felt handy capped by barrel length. Where I really have felt the difference is in barrel twist. I feel a fast twist barrel with the same load, bullet will kill better than the slower twist barrel every time. After this year I won't have anything in the house with a barrel slower than a 8 twist. I am still run a .223 with a 7 twist and a 12.5" barrel. Its for around home and plan to use it a fair amount this year. I haven't killed enough with it (20 roughly) to say for certain my thoughts on it. I also plan to build a 6 TCU 8 twist with a 16" barrel for around home also. Then for everything else a .243 with a 20" 8 twist barrel also. I did run a .243 one fur season with Barnes 80 TTSX and even shot a couple cats and was able to sew everything up fine.
I know longer worry about fps. Accuracy first and let the fps fall where it may.
 

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Posted by Lonny (Member # 19) on May 18, 2016, 04:36 PM:
 
Well, I dropped off the rifle at the Dr. today. I figured I better do it before think about it too long. I told him to go to 20". Originally, when I had it threaded about 9 months ago, I mentioned shaving off some inches and the G-smith said, "If you go too much you'll end up with a .223" Haunting words...

I'm kind of a tightwad and I like to hear from others before blowing my hard-earned cash, so thanks to all for advice on this! Good group here.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 19, 2016, 12:30 AM:
 
Brent, I believe you.

Everybody has a motive. I started almost from the beginning, as a contest hunter. Everything was geared toward body count.

I don't doubt the confusion angle as applies to pairs and multiples. Interestingly, hunt Mexico and they are so virgin that they stand around confused, even if you are blasting at them with some Magnum.

In other words, I have killed multiples without suppressors but I admit, I could possibly have killed more had I used one.

You know something? I have only been present one time when a suppressor was used. There was a (what's it called?) Class 3 dealer at the range one day, only me and him and he let me try a suppressed M4 full auto. I had been using plugs before, but he suggested that I remove them and let'r rip. It was still loud, so I don't know? This guy was testing suppressed M4's for various police departments, and I couldn't help thinking, why the hell do cops need "silencers" on their TRUE assault Weapon/machine guns?

Still seemed loud, to me? And they say the reduction is from 160dB to maybe 130? Maybe not even that?

Can I see the day when my club won't allow unsuppressed firearms? No lead bullets? What are we doing? <sigh>

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on May 19, 2016, 02:46 PM:
 

quote:

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why the hell do cops need "silencers" on their TRUE assault Weapon/machine guns?

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