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Author
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Topic: Chop it off?
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 17, 2016 07:02 PM
Lonny, I have a TBAC Ultra 7 coming for CF and a SiCo Specter II for rim fire. Awaiting approval on both. Ordered the TBAC in February. Just ordered the SiCo a couple weeks ago.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 18, 2016 04:39 AM
Everybody knows I'm a hard headed, opinionated dinosaur.
Right now, my main objections are aesthetics, might as well weld a damned anvil on the end of the barrel, maybe two to make sure you snag every bush possible.
But, if it is such a wonderful improvement, (not really disputing this) then I would think regulatory and insurance interests would clamor for free suppressors? Possibly make them mandatory, protect the environment from noise pollution?
Sure, some of you guys wouldn't hunt with me now because I am unmufflered, and some of you would pay TWICE what it now costs! Boy, is this the SECOND COMING, or what?
I dunno? I might have to wait until they make them MANDATORY, which, the way this country is turning Liberal and DICTATORIAL, might not be so far off?
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 18, 2016 04:41 AM
Looks like we can all agree that suppressors are useless for coyote hunting!
Glad we got that settled...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 18, 2016 04:55 AM
Fred, I love you like a son, never mind that I have a grandson your age, but anyway; Just think about it for a second. I have been hunting coyotes since before you were born. Someday, that fact might have meaning for you.
So. I think you are acting disrespectful.
I don't like to pull rank because I'm the head MFIC, never have been that way. Some, like he who shall not be named believe differently.
I believe elders deserve and are entitled to a small amount of respect. And, it costs you nothing. Even when I was a brash 20something, I deferred to experience and age. In fact, I suddenly remember, this time an older Master Sergeant was about to do something quite dangerous because he didn't think anybody was willing to do it for him, and hesitated issuing an order. I surprised him and stepped up to the plate, and it was the right thing to do, especially since I knew I could do it a lot better than he could and it had to be done. That was over 50 years ago, and I don't ever recall patting myself on the back for it, either? But, I should mention, not a few hours before, another man had fallen and broke his back attempting the same thing, and was discharged, out of the Army within the month. Starting to ramble, so I should rap it up, no doubt.
Good hunting. El Bee
[ May 18, 2016, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Kelly Jackson
SECOND PLACE/GARTH BROOKS LOOK-A-LIKE CONTEST
Member # 977
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posted May 18, 2016 10:27 AM
I was a hard head and just went suppressed. Should have done this years ago.
The tax deal I think is here to stay. Too much money to give up.
Cant bring myself to cut the 22-243AI down, but just chopped a 204AI off to 20" to match the 243AI.
A suppressor is worth all the bullshit even if you never shoot another coyote. Just do it.
Posts: 997 | From: Comanche OK | Registered: Oct 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 18, 2016 10:55 AM
That's a strong endorsement, Kelly. I'm leaning.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Moe
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4494
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posted May 18, 2016 10:56 AM
Interesting article on the subject.
http://www.guns.com/2012/02/16/the-myth-of-barrel-length-and-velocity-loss/
I bought a Kimber 84M Classic in 22-250 sometime about 2005. Nice rifle but it came with a 22" barrel which actually measured a little less. I was always concerned about how it would perform at long range but stopped one day when calling by a large dry lake in Eastern Oregon.
To make a long story short I called in a coyote that came clear across the dry lake bed then hung up a long way out. I watched him through the scope and when he started to move left apparently in an attempt to wind me I thought I'd better try a shot. So I did. I didn't see the bullet hit him but he wasn't visible after the shot was taken. I had the Leupold LR crosshair on the 4-12 scope and used a single mil dot above the crosshair.
I continued to call and got a second coyote at about 30 yards. Nothing else showed so I got my truck and drove out to see if I could find the first coyote. He was stone cold dead and had fallen into a low spot. I bought a Leupold range finder from Cabelas and the next time I went to call that spot I ranged it at something like 416 yards. I quit worrying about the shorter barrel that day.
I've made a longer shot but it was with a 243 and a 75 grain bullet. Sun was coming up and I just took a potshot as a joke. I was shocked when I heard the bullet hit the cat and saw the eyes slide down the bolder he'd been sitting on.
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I snatch kisses. And vice versa.
Posts: 593 | From: Oregon | Registered: Nov 2013
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 18, 2016 11:26 AM
I'm not totally convinced by that article, Moe. In the first place, they don't say, and I highly doubt that the load was changed while he was cutting off all those inches of barrel. While there is some mention of the powder being completely burned within 3" if I read it correctly; that is most certainly not always the case. Plenty of times, while hunting at night with a short barrel, you can see as much as ten feet of flame coming out the end of the barrel.
Second, while it may not happen in the first or second inch, by the time you have cut six inches off the barrel, it will justify using a faster burning powder, particularly slow extruded powder.
So, with various hot 22 and 24 calibers there is much talk about 30, 40 and 50fps loss by parting off your barrel. This guy claims (damn, I already forgot?) was it 15fps? So, everybody's wrong and this guy is right.
I believe the higher numbers, personally and it really pains me to think of the strived for performance being lopped off. Almost seems criminal?But now, instead of the "Velocity Gods", we are bowing to the "Suppressor Gods". Everything's the same, only different.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted May 18, 2016 12:03 PM
quote:
I was a hard head .........Should have done this years ago
The tax deal I think is here to stay. Too much money to give up.
.........
A suppressor is worth all the bullshit even if you never shoot another coyote. Just do it.
This!!! Heard it from many and felt the same way myself. I have two and getting a third.
[ May 18, 2016, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: CrossJ ]
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted May 18, 2016 12:50 PM
El Bee..............
You're missing the best reason to put SILENCERS on the SNIPER RIFLES in your ARSENAL.
> It would piss the liberals off & give them heartburn.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7583 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted May 18, 2016 01:02 PM
You guys be careful, cutting those barrels down is getting you close to 223 velocity and we all know those won't kill squat.
My 22-250AI has a 22" barrel and the first load I tried got me over 3800 fps with a 55 grain bullet. I haven't seen the need to try for more.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted May 18, 2016 01:09 PM
On the barrel length and velocity...
I have no experience chopping a barrel. A real apples to apples deal.
I do have a lot of experience running the same chambering in different length barrels. More of an apples to oranges deal.
I am sure I'm forgetting some, but, to include, .22-250 in 22, 24 and 26 inch barrels. The .22.250AI in 26, 27 and 29 inch barrels. The .223 in 20 and 24 inch. The .20BR in 24 and 26 inch. The .22BR in 24 and 29 inch. The .17 Mach IV in 20 and 24 inch.
My experience, again, not with chopping (the real subject), but with different length barrels. For cases in the .22-250 class, that 40 fps is what I've seen.
Seen more, more than a few times. That is to say, 100 fps difference between 24 and 26, with two different .22-250's. Which, is NOT the same, as chopping the SAME barrel, from 26 to 24.
But, like I said, never actually chopped one. And, again, no experience (yet) but have heard, that putting a 7" suppressor on a chopped barrel has a measurable effect and you'll see less velocity loss compared to the bare, chopped barrel. Make sense. But, still will have to see it to believe it.
Give me another year or so and I'll have a shit load of first hand data...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Brent Parker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 4354
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posted May 18, 2016 02:13 PM
Leonard,
I hope that I have been fair with everyone in my thoughts and experiences with a suppressor. I do not claim to have your experience killing coyotes. I would like to think though that I have enough experience and time under my belt to be able to make a rational augment concerning suppressor use on called coyotes. Everyone I have talked to has heard the story of my first season of calling with a suppressor and I took more doubles that season than all the others here prior. Perhaps luck comes in some and so does coyote numbers as they cycle up, but in my opinion and experience you (whoever) are leaving coyotes you would have taken by not running a suppressor. I have heard many guys tell me that they won't wait or spend the money. I always tell myself good. I will take any advantage over my competition I can get.
Now as far as barrel length goes, seems like forever now but when I moved out here I ran a 20" .17 Remington with a 9 twist barrel and everything I shot with it fell down and died. Granted my ranges were shorter on average and I only fur hunted. Yes I had a few runners and even lost a few. Dam few but none the less a few. A good dog saved me a few times. But I have never felt handy capped by barrel length. Where I really have felt the difference is in barrel twist. I feel a fast twist barrel with the same load, bullet will kill better than the slower twist barrel every time. After this year I won't have anything in the house with a barrel slower than a 8 twist. I am still run a .223 with a 7 twist and a 12.5" barrel. Its for around home and plan to use it a fair amount this year. I haven't killed enough with it (20 roughly) to say for certain my thoughts on it. I also plan to build a 6 TCU 8 twist with a 16" barrel for around home also. Then for everything else a .243 with a 20" 8 twist barrel also. I did run a .243 one fur season with Barnes 80 TTSX and even shot a couple cats and was able to sew everything up fine.
I know longer worry about fps. Accuracy first and let the fps fall where it may.
Posts: 172 | From: 2 miles east of Vic | Registered: Mar 2013
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 18, 2016 04:36 PM
Well, I dropped off the rifle at the Dr. today. I figured I better do it before think about it too long. I told him to go to 20". Originally, when I had it threaded about 9 months ago, I mentioned shaving off some inches and the G-smith said, "If you go too much you'll end up with a .223" Haunting words...
I'm kind of a tightwad and I like to hear from others before blowing my hard-earned cash, so thanks to all for advice on this! Good group here.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 19, 2016 12:30 AM
Brent, I believe you.
Everybody has a motive. I started almost from the beginning, as a contest hunter. Everything was geared toward body count.
I don't doubt the confusion angle as applies to pairs and multiples. Interestingly, hunt Mexico and they are so virgin that they stand around confused, even if you are blasting at them with some Magnum.
In other words, I have killed multiples without suppressors but I admit, I could possibly have killed more had I used one.
You know something? I have only been present one time when a suppressor was used. There was a (what's it called?) Class 3 dealer at the range one day, only me and him and he let me try a suppressed M4 full auto. I had been using plugs before, but he suggested that I remove them and let'r rip. It was still loud, so I don't know? This guy was testing suppressed M4's for various police departments, and I couldn't help thinking, why the hell do cops need "silencers" on their TRUE assault Weapon/machine guns?
Still seemed loud, to me? And they say the reduction is from 160dB to maybe 130? Maybe not even that?
Can I see the day when my club won't allow unsuppressed firearms? No lead bullets? What are we doing? <sigh>
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31465 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted May 19, 2016 02:46 PM
quote:
why the hell do cops need "silencers" on their TRUE assault Weapon/machine guns?
First I would guess because they can. But mostly, possibly because of hearing protection. I have read from some guys in the UK posting that they felt it was just common sense, similar to OSHA rules perhaps.
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted May 20, 2016 07:28 AM
Brent, if/when you get that 6TCU rockin', holla back! The 1:8 6x45AI I built is an absolute pisser & quite the little performer. As you might know, they're pretty much the same difference...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 20, 2016 09:55 AM
FWIW, Lonny I run the 50 gr. NBT through my 20" sako finnlight and during load development I was able to run up over 3800 fps and that is where I ran into heavy bolt lift. The load I settled on runs an average of 3765 fps, and kills coyotes just fine.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 20, 2016 10:34 AM
That's good to hear TR.
What powder and how much were you using with the NBT 50's?
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted May 20, 2016 03:58 PM
I got the most speed with 4064 but never found accuracy that I wanted.
I tried 380, both IMR and H4895, but settled on Varget.
The load I am using is 38.2 g. of Varget which gave the best accuracy. I might have been able to squeak out more speed with Varget but stopped when I found acceptable accuracy and don't think I was going to get much more out of it anyways.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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Lonny
PANTS ON THE GROUND
Member # 19
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posted May 20, 2016 08:16 PM
Thanks TR.
I know I'm going to be starting all over with load development , but we are still a ways out from coyote season, which is part of the reason I wanted to get this going now.
Posts: 1209 | From: Lewiston, Idaho USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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