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Author
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Topic: "Call shy" coyotes
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted December 12, 2010 07:56 AM
Which of the following coyote calling methods will create more "call shy coyotes" and why?
1. Electronic calls
2. Hand calls
Stop and think about it.
~SH~
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JohnLK
Pro-Staff Great/Michigan Sector
Member # 1978
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posted December 12, 2010 08:42 AM
I think improper setup and piss poor shooting creates the most.
Posts: 54 | From: Michigan | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 12, 2010 09:06 AM
A very tricky question, Scott!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted December 12, 2010 09:20 AM
I don't have a clue and might not add anything of value, but if I could throw a guess out there, I might say, of those two, hand calls.
Too much movement, and easier to get busted making distress or other sounds, than a e-caller 40 (+ or -) yards away from the shooter.
OR
Too many e-callers with limited sounds. The really smart coyotes learn these sounds and pass them on to other coyotes, and that accounts for the conspiracy I know they have against me.
Seriously, I am interested in the answers to this question. This whole calling thing can get overwhelming and frustrating at times.
[edited for spelling]
[ December 12, 2010, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1465 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted December 12, 2010 09:32 AM
I dont know the answer either but about half the coyotes in Az. hear lightnin jack and head for the hills! hmmm?
[ December 12, 2010, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted December 12, 2010 10:00 AM
Not sure what the 'right' answer is, but I find it noteworthy that electronic calls and hand calls are considered 'coyote calling methods' rather than just 'coyote calling tools'.
Having thought about it, as instructed, I would say without hesitation; It depends...........
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted December 12, 2010 10:10 AM
With the popularity of Ecalls over whelming the old style of handcalling, and with the fact that seemingly most new guys use Ecalls and then leave them running continously on every stand blaring on full volume without a clue on how to handle a coyote or how to pick a stand, my guess is that Ecalls are educating more coyotes than hand calls these days.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted December 12, 2010 11:06 AM
I will have to agree with TR on the fact that ecalls HAVE created more call shy coyotes. This is due to the fact that they have simplified the process for the new comer and put more callers in the field. More callers equels more call shy coyotes. This reasoning could also put blame on the internet ( a complete other tangent).
The question was, 'what calling method WILL cause more call shy coyotes?'. I have a 50/50 chance here. My guess would be ecalls. The reasons would be exact duplication/repetition of sounds and continuous play(by this I mean long loops that are played continuously without a break).
OK, now which calling method would be best to use on call shy coyotes? Thats the answer I really want to know.
Maintain
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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Briguy
Unofficial AGENT PROVOCATEUR
Member # 3471
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posted December 12, 2010 11:40 AM
So, now we have 2 questions posed. First, which leads to more call shy coyotes, and second, which is best to use on call shy coyotes?
No idea the answer, and I personally don't think there is an answer that's black and white. Too many variables on both sides of that coin.
I do feel that if I'm going into an area with what I feel are call shy coyotes, I'm better off with the e-caller. The ability to quickly change sounds with anything from coyote vocals to some exotic sounds like Snow Shoe Hare or Flying Squirrel(which we don't have here, and I can't imagine the rookies out there that are educating coyotes are using those as their go to sounds), will provide me an opportunity to give them something they haven't heard before.
Course, the uniqueness and ability to mix things up with the hand call in the right hands could produce the same effects. I'm not that versatile with the hands calls, so tough for me to mix it up to the level probably necessary to coax the call shy coyote.
So, short answer to the questions...Uhhhh, IDUNNOOOOO.
Posts: 94 | From: El Desierto | Registered: Aug 2009
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Clank
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3687
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posted December 12, 2010 11:41 AM
I would say ecalls to many unexperianced rookies deciding to get in the game and have no clue how to set up or call.
As for call shy that would have to fall in the catagore of waiting them out till breading season for the best chance to get them or wait them out and snipe them.
Posts: 45 | From: IL | Registered: Oct 2010
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted December 12, 2010 01:39 PM
Getting busted while calling, is the main reason why I like to have a emachine and control it remotely. I could not count the number of times I began a sequence and glanced around and there was a bobcat or coyote staring right at me. They don't necessarily do that when the sound is coming from 100 feet away.....unless they catch my movement, while evaluating the situation.
So, I know, for a fact, that more coyotes and especially cats will zero in on a hunter with a hand call, even if 100% camouflaged. And, that is your only refuge, total camo and zero movement. Ask my buddy Higgy.
But, as Geordie wrote, above, the sheer number of electronic calls being misused by novices is staggering. The average DEER hunter hasn't given much thought to techniques and for the most part, tend to conduct a stand with a lot of mistakes that will give him away.
As I always said, it took me a couple trips by myself without a clue, followed by one day with somebody that knew how to do it for me to figure things out well enough to be successful, all by myself. In this business, the printed word leaves a lot to be desired, when you have never done it before. If you even have minimal experience, reading can be very helpful, unless you are a hardheaded Minneesotan Swede. (just kidding, just kidding)
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted December 12, 2010 03:25 PM
We tend to use the term "call shy" when what we are actually seeing is a coyote or coyotes that have been conditioned to recognize a certain sound coming from a certain location with danger. I have seen that happen too many times.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2010 05:56 PM
I would have to say handcalls..
I'm still out hunting in S.D. and I'm working my way through abunch of ranches that got hit by callers for the V.H. contest. I hit two ranches this mourning and two in the after noon..
Most stands have been 20 min. and the coyotes are still comeing easey..
I got the chance to break in the 20x47 Lapua with 40 gr. V-max bullets today.. Hits on standing still coyotes one hole in and nothing out. It will tear them up on a bad hit just like the bigger cal.s.. Happy with performance but I'm going back to the 17 cal. tomorrow... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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J_hun
Knows what it's all about
Member # 872
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posted December 12, 2010 06:30 PM
I just talked to someone about that very thing the other day and without a question, I would say E-callers. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry are out there now days throwing all these different sounds out there. People that don't know a damn thing about calling are ruining the sport. Gets pretty frustrating. I never did like the damn things in the first place. I wouldn't use one if someone gave me the best there is. End of discussion.
Posts: 141 | From: Pierre,S.D. | Registered: Jun 2006
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nd coyote killer
HUNTMASTER PRO STAFF
Member # 40
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posted December 12, 2010 07:46 PM
I've got to agree...Ecallers. Not due to the tool itself but do to the average person blowing a hand call and the average person using an ecaller are two different degrees of hunters as far as expierence. I also believe that there is a lot of people using ecaller coyote vocals that don't have any idea how to use them or when to use them and don't have a clue what they are saying to the coyotes.
They certainly both have their place i just wish there was some kind of stipulation that you had to call in and kill 30 coyotes with a handcall before you were allowed to purchase an ecaller.....LOL
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"Sure are cocky for a starving pilgrim" - Bear Claw
Posts: 385 | From: On a hill | Registered: Jan 2003
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coyote down
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2887
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posted December 12, 2010 08:23 PM
I don't think that either hand calls or electronic calls, create more call shy coyotes than the other. The methods in which they are used,or used around you,is more of the problem than whether you use a hand call or electronic.
Hand calls are good because we all create different sounds, and have different cadences, which makes them unique to each individual. This can also be a curse if we make the same sounds from the same location repeatedly. They are easier to carry and you do not have the added risk of being seen when you are placing the electronic caller away from you.
Electronic calls are good because you have the convenience of choosing a lot of different sounds. You have the ability to set up certain scenarios, which can be more inviting to the coyotes that we are trying to call. It lets us use sounds that we are unable to make on a mouth call, or sounds that we are not good at making.
The problem is that everyone could be using the same sounds that you are using.
Call shy coyotes are created because of how and where these calls are used to name just a couple of reasons. It doesn't matter what we use if we are calling towards areas that represent danger, such as roads or areas where coyotes have been shot at previously. Letting the coyotes use the wind against us instead of us using it in our favor is another reason for call shy coyotes. Being seen either driving or walking into stands, walking along the top of ridges and not under them to help keep you hidden, lots of movement on the stand, and glare from your guns and equipment are also things that create call shy coyotes that have nothing to do with whether you are using a mounth call or electronic.
Posts: 32 | From: colorado | Registered: Jul 2008
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Field Marshall, Southern Minneesota Sector
Member # 794
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posted December 12, 2010 09:11 PM
quote:
The problem is that everyone could be using the same sounds that you are using.
Call shy coyotes are created because of how and where these calls are used to name just a couple of reasons. It doesn't matter what we use if we are calling towards areas that represent danger, such as roads or areas where coyotes have been shot at previously. Letting the coyotes use the wind against us instead of us using it in our favor is another reason for call shy coyotes. Being seen either driving or walking into stands, walking along the top of ridges and not under them to help keep you hidden, lots of movement on the stand, and glare from your guns and equipment are also things that create call shy coyotes that have nothing to do with whether you are using a mounth call or electronic.
When hand callers call they have to stop every so often to catch there breath. Not all coyotes but most will loose interest or forget what they are responding to when this happens. You may have guessed it, I call almost non-stop
, the coyotes keep comeing and seem more excited when they do show up. Stop calling or pause the coyote stops, call again it starts moveing, it gets to the point to where the coyote is on a string and you stop pulling at the wrong time the coyote is going to get a good look at youre set up and if something is out of place its gone.
Keep the coyote interested!!!!
Roads don't represent danger! The vihicle comeing down the road does.. Coyotes cross the road all the time day or night. I had a guy give me a bad time cause I called close to the road.. Reason for doing this is because the coyotes where bedded by the road to begin with..LOL
If a hunter shoots from a road in a certain area then yes the coyote may shy away from that little piece of road, but you can move down the road a couple 100 yds and game is back on.. After it snows look for place where a coyote does cross the road, they will feel comfortable comeing in to the call in this spot...
Depending on weather conditions you can use the wind in youre favor for getting the sound out,just make sure you have someone set up farther down and off to one side to intersept the coyote or use some ground structure to keep the coyote out of youre scent...
I've driven into calling areas and been busted by coyotes, if I see the coyote at the same time I just keep on driveing and don't stop, If I do happen to stop then the coyote will run off.. No big deal! Coyotes have a short memory and it will soon forget who or what I was.. Give them a little time and come back this time without being spotted and game is on.
As for movement you would be surprised with how much you can get away with, as long as they are not looking right at you.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 5064 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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coyote down
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2887
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posted December 12, 2010 10:29 PM
I hope you are not wanting me to believe that the only interested coyotes are the coyotes responding to an electronic call while moving around a lot on a stand? Do you think the only coyotes watching you while you are calling and waving your call over your head like you say you do, are the coyotes that you are seeing? Some of them might not see you, but you are running the chance of making others that you don't see call shy, by your method.
I grew up in country that is really flat with little cover to hide yourself in. You are not going to drive 200 yards down the road and call that coyote in. The coyotes around there are not only road shy, but they are vehicle shy also, because of how far a person can see. The coyotes around there may be fairly close around the ranch house early in the morning, but as soon as the rancher starts his day the coyotes are leaving that area rapidly. The best method of hunting those areas are to start walking from the ranch house before the movement starts around there in the mornings or, have someone drop you off in the direction that the coyotes will be moving into to spend their day, before they get there.
Posts: 32 | From: colorado | Registered: Jul 2008
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coyote down
Knows what it's all about
Member # 2887
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posted December 12, 2010 10:52 PM
As far as calling constantly to have an interested coyote is debatable. Coyotes respond to distressed sounds from animals all the time. Do you think an animal being munched on, is going to scream constantly, or is going to take a break to breathe when needed? Is it more likely to scream constantly or take breaks between being bitten? Just because a coyote comes in faster than another, does that mean it is more interested than another one that takes longer to get to you? I'm not sure how you measure interest in a coyote. A coyote responding faster than another one could be the result of coyote populations and not interest.
Posts: 32 | From: colorado | Registered: Jul 2008
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted December 12, 2010 11:11 PM
"When hand callers call they have to stop every so often to catch there breath. Not all coyotes but most will loose interest or forget what they are responding to when this happens."
That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.
Whoever said it before hit the nail on the head.
"You can't fix stupid"
Good Hunting Chad
Posts: 1612 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
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posted December 13, 2010 06:57 AM
quote:
"When hand callers call they have to stop every so often to catch there breath. Not all coyotes but most will loose interest or forget what they are responding to when this happens."
That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.
X2 on ridiculous
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
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the bearhunter
HM PROSTAFF & MIDWEST REGIONAL GURU VOTED MOST HANDSOME MINNESOTAN
Member # 3552
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posted December 13, 2010 07:05 AM
x500 ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 1049 | From: minnifornia | Registered: Jan 2010
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Patterson
19.6 miles down the Yellow Brick Road from THE EMERALD CITY
Member # 3304
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posted December 13, 2010 07:18 AM
Very good thread.
I would have to say hand calls would make more "call shy" coyotes. When speaking in terms of hand calls there is only so many variances or different animal distress sounds you can make with a handcall. With that being said it would make them more "sound shy" to a certain degree. With electronics you can come back in with a completely different distress sound not even in the same species of animal wih a push of a button and perk the coyotes interest in a different way. But that line of thinking means they would have to be certain sound shy and not distress all together shy(if that makes scense). Scott do you think they get "distress shy" or "sound specific shy"?
Even with that said I dont know if one or the other actually makes a coyote more shy than the other. A coyote called that escapes will learn pretty quick no matter what method and I think adjust its entrance into a stand if it will still come. IE the 200-500 yard wind circlin coyotes. Eventually after a few experiences with busting a caller I would like to think the really smart coyotes will not respond to a distress sound unless they are infact creating/killing the animal themselves that is in distress. But I may be giving them to much credit. I like to think those are the coyotes that throwing the coyote vocalization curve ball to would be one of the only ways to bring them in while calling......if you knew your howls......which I dont.
I definately do not think E calls are better than hand calls though. Some of the best callers in the nation use predominatly hand calls.
Posts: 236 | From: Kansas | Registered: Nov 2008
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CatTracker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 3526
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posted December 13, 2010 07:45 AM
Well, since you only offer two options, I'm going to say e-callers. I do think that repeated sounds and cadences educate certain coyotes. However, I do think there is more to it than just the tunes your singing to be successful in heavily hunted areas. I find when I sound just right, am invisible and use the wind, my luck goes up considerably even with an e-caller. In other words, when your killing grounds are repeatedly under assault, hunt like your life depends on it and not the same way as the Wendy's-McDonald's clan for better results.
Posts: 38 | From: NM | Registered: Nov 2009
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SD Howler
taught Huber everything he knows, but not everything HE knows!
Member # 3669
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posted December 13, 2010 08:18 AM
quote:
Being seen either driving or walking into stands, walking along the top of ridges and not under them to help keep you hidden, lots of movement on the stand, and glare from your guns and equipment are also things that create call shy coyotes that have nothing to do with whether you are using a mouth call or electronic.
Yes I feel these issues create some of the biggest problems for most callers. Keeping a low profile while getting into your stand was always a major concern for myself when I was actively calling and having a good background while sitting or laying down at my calling stands.
Yes there are advantages to having the calling sounds and your decoy away from your sitting position, but setting out your e-caller or decoy at a farther distance from your calling stand only creates more exposure for the caller.
I wish I knew how many coyotes I called in or had at a close distance, but never seen? Carrying a pair of binoculars sure helps spot some of these coyotes. Normally when I hunted with my partner, I did the calling and he was glassing over the area for the oncoming coyote(s).
Yes you'll have to forgive me, but with my 30+ years of calling I used hand or voice calls. I have the satisfaction of calling in critters with various sounds that I created myself and using calls that I hand crafted.
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Steve
Predator Calling
rattler51@pie.midco.net
Posts: 51 | From: SD | Registered: Sep 2010
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