This is topic any AZ locals heard about this deal? in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 15, 2024, 04:56 PM:
Any inside poop?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEMpuCXYCZM
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 15, 2024, 06:54 PM:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutors-say-won t-retry-arizona-rancher-accused-killing-mexican-man-rcna149920
I've hunted a bit around that area; I think as early as 1968 or 69. Back then, it was the first area where ranchers were running Brahmas, at least the only part of the state where I had ever seen them. This, of course lent a bit of exotic to the countryside, besides being quite a bit thicker in the vegetation. I remember a rumor, back then that there were escaped monkeys living in the trees. In some spots it was actual jungle.
But these days, it's a emigrant or wetback highway. In a long stretch all the way to Tucson, you can't take a step without having to avoid backpacks, water jugs and cheap blankets and sleeping bags. Describing it doesn't do it justice, you must see it to believe it!
I know nothing about th case, but what little I've read, this rancher was railroaded. I don't see how the state has a case, and it was a hung jury. So, now he's out of money, and the local Hispanic population apparently call him: DEAD MAN WALKING.
But it sounds like he did a stupid thing and was subsequently railroaded. 74 years old and facing more than 20 years behind bars, if he lived that long? That's all I know, at this point?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Hey Victor! You are from Tucson. Can you verify about the Brahmas that I personally saw down along the border and what about the monkey rumor?
[ May 17, 2024, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 16, 2024, 04:46 PM:
Shaw can tell you about Brama's. he called in a pretty bid hear and was also some of those African bulls with bug thick horns
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 17, 2024, 03:29 PM:
Calling Victor! Over and out! 10-4
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 17, 2024, 05:40 PM:
vic probably riding over the herd.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on May 17, 2024, 08:51 PM:
In that time frame, Brahma cattle were being run on some ranches. Bill Cowan, a local rancher here in Cochise county, ran quite a few, his daughter has a small portion of the ranch to this day and she has maybe 30 head or so?
The monkey rumor....never heard of that one, maybe a confusing experience of someone seeing a mob of Coatis'? They do resemble a monkey I suppose, long tail, run thru threes and roam in sometimes quite large numbers.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 18, 2024, 09:10 AM:
Yes! I think you are right and I might have made a mistake! It was a new adventure for me, at the time, the furthest I had ever ventured from The People's Republik. It seemed like exotic stuff, to me at the time as I only had experience with the general Phoenix up to Flagstaff area because that's where my people lived. Besides, it was practically Mexico, but it was the first time I had ever seen free ranging Brahmas anywhere. And, I thought they were kinda neat.
But, that experiment, if you want to call it that, was short lived, although I worked right next to a kill floor in Vernon and in the sixties, they were getting some Brahmas on a regular basis, like one truckload a day.
There used to be a ranch north of Chino Valley that had the pretties white cattle I've ever seen. I only remembered it because we had killed a shitload of coyotes all along the boundary of that ranch. I'll have to sound it out phonetically: Charlaise.
Best I can do? And they were big. We would tease our buddies back in town, Good hunting, look for the white cattle!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 19, 2024, 02:15 PM:
I got time. now.
Anyway, I hunted with Shaw and some other guy right on the border. Think we was traveling west down a highway with border to the left side as I could see border agent pulling a drag. To the right of highway we had RxR tracks with good ground on other side of the tracks. We pulled over and crossed the tracks and climbed over a fence and set up to call. I think I was out in front and little to right and there was a stock stank there as well.
Shaw started to call and then I heard what sound like cattle stampede and sure enough here they all came from behind the dirt mound by stock stank, Looked like all bulls and all was packing horns.
Looked like Bramha, and those African cattle that have large dia. horns at the base and then grow out similar to long horn but just bigger in diameter and also looked like there was a few longhorns mixed in as well or some sort of cross.
Soon as I saw them coming, I knew this was trouble and grabbed my stuff and booked for the fence, think I had to crawl under it and Shaw just jumped over the top. LOL
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 20, 2024, 06:30 AM:
....AND THEN YOU WOKE UP!
For a minute I thought you might have been around Yuma because they drag the road religiously, all night long. At the same time they have lights rigged in front pointed down so they can pick up tracks from between the previous pass. I remember asking the driver, one night how often, they drag the same road and I THINK? he said 20 minutes? Anyway, it was often enough that they can pretty well figure exactly where they have got to since the last pass.
That's the only place, south of Summerton where they drag roads all night long. But that was then. Who knows now?
I've never been charged by cattle. They come running once in a while but it's not aggressive, more like they are expecting the food vender. All bulls? Never saw that, either? Intact bulls? That's doubtful, Amigo? They are always confined and separated, they try fucking even steers!
Maybe you were in New Mexico? They do have an abandoned railroad track and a bunch of downed telegraph wire all the way to El Paso. And, little red signs saying Republic of Mexico practically right next to the raised railroad bed. There's a station building about halfway, is it called Tres Hermanos? Something like that?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ May 20, 2024, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 20, 2024, 07:26 AM:
I've never felt threatened by cattle, either.
Feral burros in Nev. on the other hand ......... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 20, 2024, 04:23 PM:
Yeah, and there again, you know up in Bishop they have a Pioneer days round up and most of the time you might see at least 50 Burros, maybe more? I think the locals round them up. But they are pretty tame, at least there in town. This big Pow wow type of thing is around Labor Day, I think?
You know where they have a lot of burros? Alamo Lake, it's not far from Quartzite. Loaded with Burros.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I knew a guy, name of Dochef, and he claimed that he killed 50 Burros in Nevada. Get this! With a 17! He had one of those Wildcats like a/hell I don't remember? Maybe a Javelina? But this was before they even made the 17Remington, Mark 4, maybe? Doesn't matter but he said head shots. Anythings possible, but why?
Good hunting. El Bee
We used to joke about that guy. Always hunted alone. and he would come back to check in and his rig wasn't even dusty! He never had coyotes either, usually gray fox or a cat. Weird dude, fat Boy, lived with his mom! But, drove a real chick magnet, a 280Z with a custom paint job, Lime green with red flames! I wonder if it worked? Basically, I'd guess an INCEL? Oh, yeah I remember now, He liked to patronize joints like The Cottontail Ranch up on 95!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 20, 2024, 06:18 PM:
Koko and Leonard I grew up on dairy farm and cattle ranch and know what a bull looks like and what ones to stay hell away from. Go up to Montana or Idaho and call around their cattle, those fuckers are plain nuts. Cousin and other relatives get their cattle from there, open range cattle, mean s.o.b.s.
Cousins wife was in sorting pen with us sorting cows and they went after her and dam near killed her. Sometimes a little arm waving and yelling just don't work. LOL
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 21, 2024, 03:30 AM:
El Bee;
If the guy's Z-car was a chick magnet ............. what was he doing at the Cottontail ????
Tim;
I've called in cattle, burros, a few horses, a couple of ranchers and a hippie. Most were entertaining but to become lackadaisical about anything that could potentially harm my pink & tender self would be foolish. Just because the cattle I've called in the past just stood around and looked goofy doesn't mean that the next one won't have issues & bad intentions.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 21, 2024, 06:09 AM:
northern open range cattle are very protective. You could compare them to a herd of wild cape buffalo.
I ran dogs one year on a coyote they ran coyote right up into the cattle. Few cows took after the coyote and rest split up and went after the dogs.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 21, 2024, 06:15 AM:
ass for call ins yeah I've called in horses and wild mustangs on Res. Buffalo, sheep, pigs, wild turkeys and pheasants to name a few.
Night calling have had a few skunks and jackrabbits come in as well.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 21, 2024, 05:02 PM:
I once had to protect my caller from a horse on the res. He wasn't an actual mustang, maybe he went home when he felt like it? I didn't see any brands but he was a big boy, just didn't look like a mustang and they aren't ever alone, they at least have a few girl pony's with them. But this guy had a real attitude and he wasn't spooked when I interfered, so he was semi tame. But, just as mean as your average donkey. I didn't think I could save my machine but he finally listened to reason.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 22, 2024, 04:12 AM:
The mustang Gov. brand is usually on the neck just below the main which covers up the brand on some.
When I worked in Wyoming use to go up into mountains and ride them on weekends and they make a pretty nice horse once they been broken and tamed.
Sure footed and know their way around if you get caught trail riding out in the dark. Lean back into the saddle and give them their head and let them take you down the mountain side. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on May 22, 2024, 04:33 AM:
Trapped around Alamo Lake for a few years.
Good trapping and you are right one mountain was nothing but burros. They'd stomp a trap as fast as you could set them.
Finally gave up trying to trap that mountain.
Last time we went down was cage traps on public land only. Butler valley was dead. Drought had taken out most of the creasote bushes and just about everything else. Poor trapping.
I think that was 2010 or so.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 22, 2024, 07:00 AM:
I used to bowfish Alamo in the spring and call that long straight dirt road from the lake to, I believe, Hwy 95. It was awesome calling for quite a while until somebody wrote an article for Arizona Hunter & Angler magazine telling all how great it was.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 22, 2024, 07:54 PM:
Might mean 85? Crosses I-10 at Quartite.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS oh, by the way, there are not a hell of a lot of Burros in Arizona, in general. I could be wrong, but I "think" they specifically congregate around Alamo Lake and the Bill Williams river....and that's it. There are quite a few on the California side in the vicinity of Needles. Oh, also a few near Oatman, AZ
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 23, 2024, 06:44 AM:
I just checked ............ it's 93.
As I understand it, there's a bit of conflict between the burro lovers and the fans of desert bighorn sheep. Burros tending to take possession of water holes and sheep hunters with guns who are forever trying to draw a tag.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 23, 2024, 07:23 AM:
Yes, that is an absolute FACT, ko ko! And the ENVIRO ASSHOLES want to close and destroy guzzlers in our desert. But, another thing about water holes is that lions ambush bighorns as they try to get a drink. This leaves G&F with a dilemma. Fucking lions are more dearly protected than the high dollar TAG Bighorn! So, the policy, encouraged by sheep hunters is to thin out the lions! Left to their own devices, they couldn't solve that quandary!
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I just slapped my first mosquito of the season, inside, and it left a bloody squished mark on my arm. That means he already got either me or Tillie? We have these little black fuckers with a white stripe on the legs. They are rather stupid, as mosquitoes go. They like to breed in bird baths and just about everybody around here has a bird bath. I have TWO. They get filled by the sprinklers and that's the problem!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 23, 2024, 11:33 AM:
Lion versus sheep, what do I do ?? HELP MR. WIZZARD !!!! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
This is what happens when G&F is staffed with the book learnt college grads instead of salt of the earth common sense folks.
Sadly, it's only gonna get worse. Will the day come when your personal DEI / Woke score affects your odds of drawing a tag ??? I wouldn't bet against it.
And for Gawd's sake, we NEED to ban coyote hunting contests because ........ well just because.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 23, 2024, 03:06 PM:
Earth Walker;
Did you & your husband ever longline between Burns & Burns Jct. out toward Malheur Lake / Refuge ????
About twenty years ago ???
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 23, 2024, 03:55 PM:
I would rather see the sheep killed by a lion than a hunter, least we know the meat not being wasted. I got idea wait till lion done eating and then go gather the Presious horns.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 23, 2024, 05:07 PM:
Well yeah, 'cause lions contribute sooo much $$$$ toward sheep management & water guzzlers.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 24, 2024, 03:15 PM:
Are the sheep or even antelope native to AZ or something that was hauled in for blood sport.??
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 24, 2024, 04:50 PM:
Native & native.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 25, 2024, 04:55 AM:
That's as Left Wing as I'd expect from Minnesota!
The thing is, like ko ko mentioned, the animal rights assholes worry about Coyote hunting contests, and for years, we were far under their RADAR, but now that they know about it, OF COURSE, they have to do something about it!
It's absolutely none of their business, but, along with the misguided assholes that give their blessings to any type of hunting....as long as they eat it! That's a bit too CONDITIONAL for me!
That's like, you can drive to the CVS Drug store, if you need insulin, but if you are hankering for an ice cream, YOU SHOULD WALK!
This earth does not care, if a few people like to hunt coyotes recreationally. And no, they are generally inedible, but there again, who decides if it is a worthy endeavor, or an affront to civilized sensibilities?
The idea of a hunting contest doesn't even appear to a lot of coyote hunters. So, what? This is a matter of individual freedom. We don't tell you that you must subscribe to American Rifleman along with your subscription to THE NEW YORKER!
The whole idea of people sticking their noses into "hunt contests" burns my ass! We will never put a dent in the coyote population; number one. But this reminds me of the lion issue.
There are people that think of wild animals as "people in fur coats". For many years, hunters in California hunted lions. Hell, in AZ the Cattlemen's Assoc. had a bounty on cats! But, there are people that are offended by the idea that some Neanderthal would kill such a beautiful and rare animal as the Mountain Lion!
I know for a fact that when the state was issuing lion tags, there became a cut off when a certain number was reached, and it was about 70-75 kills. this was around 1970 something?
The dirty secret is that every year since, the State of California has been paying houndsmen upwards of 200/230 bagged lions every year on nuisance claims. I suppose the actual amount of money paid by the state for lion control is a closely guarded secret?
The Bunny Hugger community doesn't care that a million dollars are paid every year for lion control. Because, this is as necessary as garbage collection. They are just happy that a few hunters do not enjoy the blood lust of killing such a noble and harmless animal.
The problem is that since the lions have lost their fear of man, they have killed an unspecified number of humans. Before 1970, lion attacks on humans was unheard of. So far as I an aware, there have been at least five people killed and consumed by lions. The animal rights community is fine with that.
There have been several parks and recreational sites closed because of lions stalking children. These facts are not generally available without some deep seeking. I really don't know, but the lion mafia works very diligently to control the facts.
One last word. There is an article in American Hunter about the Billion dollar Animal Rights Movement. Among other things it mentions that these organizations do not spend a dollar to support local shelters. They spend millions on advertising and if they take in any strays they euthanize them as soon as they park the truck. Do not donate a single cent to any of these animal welfare outfits!
Good hunting. El Bee
My poorly misguided brother in law donated his life savings to ASPCA! He said; "I love animals" and I couldn't talk him out of it/ don't confuse me with facts!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 25, 2024, 05:06 AM:
I don't know that? Are pronghorns native to Arizona? Of course, they must have native desert Bighorns, but antelope? IDK? Somehow, I don't remember seeing them? But, I know that we have pronghorns in California way up in the extreme northwest corner, I've never seen one personally.
Where have I personally seen pronghorns? Nevada, now where they never were before in Nye County. And Texas, and Colorado, and Wyoming. And that's it, pretty much. Not saying they aren't in other states but I have not seen them with my own eyes. And, in Wyoming they have to be more numerous than coyotes, and that's saying something!
Good hunting. El Bee
[ May 25, 2024, 05:06 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 25, 2024, 06:23 AM:
We have the American Pronghorn in the north and the Sonoran Pronghorn in the south.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on May 25, 2024, 08:48 AM:
I always hear that antelope have a tough time of it why I asked, you think they would have adapted by now to all coyotes and what have you unless they were over hunted and just can't catch back up in numbers. I seen vast herds of antelope in Wyoming parts of Kansas and Nebraska as well as western Dakotas. They all seem to thrive there till bad winter storm comes in. Back in Dakotas years ago in area I called in they had vast herds of antelope then one winter a big snowstorm blew in and killed dam near all of them.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 25, 2024, 09:10 AM:
Down this way, it's mostly drought driven.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 25, 2024, 12:26 PM:
We used to organize a coyote hunt in northern and eastern AZ at one time, and it was timed for when doe antelope drop their fawns because coyotes will follow a doe for days, just waiting for her to drop a defenseless fawn. It was called The Antelope Eaters Hunt. A good part of it was for you know, community relations, although the numbers taken probably didn't make a dent in the fawn survival. Just a chance to get out in the off season.
But just curious. I actually do not recall ever seeing pronghorns in Arizona? Where are they?
And, this question comes from a man who has hunted in just about every part of the state, and I do not exaggerate! I've actually more extensively in Arizona than my own state, by a long shot. Most of my California hunting is southern and eastern Mojave and Eastern Sierra, and a bit along coastal areas, hogs mainly. But Arizona, I've been everywhere, north and south and east and west. But I do not remember seeing antelope? Maybe I did and just forgot?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 25, 2024, 02:22 PM:
There's a small herd (or at least there was) of antelope near Bonita.
Posted by www (Member # 3918) on May 26, 2024, 06:50 AM:
Pronghorn were reintroduced to the Carrizo Plain in 1998, before it was deemed a National Monument.
Some of them spread to other areas. I have seen Antelope on the outskirts of Avenal and Coalinga California in the early 2000s. They didn't last long they were probably poached.
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