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Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on May 10, 2018, 09:37 AM:
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solar-mandate-all-new-california-homes#gs.3zlIaNk
Since it mandates only NEW homes must have solar, it should increase the value of existing homes. Many buyers would probably prefer more home and no solar IMHO.
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 10, 2018, 09:53 AM:
Dont forget,,,its Kalifornia. At some point, if you dont have solar, you may get penalized. Or, they work with the power companies, and jack your shit up so you cant afford not to have solar.
I dont have it, but have a lot of friends/family that do. Some like it some dont. Financing for 5-10 years. Eventually, hopefully, your paid off and your power bill is super low.
Lots of programs to get you into solar..including giving you solar but just financing thru your property taxes..all sound nifty....but I am always leary of that kind of stuff because...its Kalifornia....the same state that begged and subsidized people to buy electric cars...then complained about losing gas tax...so now want to penalize everyone and jack up the gas tax, jack up your car tags or charge you by the mile.
I just see everyone having solar, then somehow, the state will penalize them, even though they dont make money off of electricity...somethings not right.
Im paranoid...but youll never get away with NOT paying for something in this state, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT SOUNDS.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 10, 2018, 11:11 AM:
Sure as the Sun comes up ............. the democrats will find a way to tax it.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 10, 2018, 12:15 PM:
As luck would have it, I'm powered up with fucking solar! I was fed a world class sales pitch and couldn't figure the catch and couldn't figure out how to say no?
This rig only works when the sun shines, I mean daytime and at night I'm on the grid, no storage batteries. I have three sets of solar cells on my various roofs facing south and the inverter is capable of generating 43 Amps, DC.
I didn't pay a dime for the installation; I'm still trying to figure out the angle? My Edison bill? Don't know yet but I'm supposed to pay it annually and it was installed last June. So far, I have paid $80 to Vivent Solar. There is a 20 year lease and I can purchase the system at that time, or leave it as is.
So, if anybody knows what kind of con I have signed up for, maybe I don't want to know....because you know what they say about something that sounds too good to be true?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Lone Howl (Member # 29) on May 10, 2018, 06:40 PM:
Sounds like a good deal?
Im thinking of selling solar...now that its mandated, I can jack my prices sky high to the builders.
I love Kali.
Mark
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 11, 2018, 06:17 AM:
So, a career move is under consideration? You might google Vivent in Utah, they are seriously blanketing this area right now. Besides, if you find out anything, good or bad, I'd like to know?
I mean pertaining to their particular schtick.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Moe (Member # 4494) on May 19, 2018, 09:09 AM:
When a couple of solar outfits were canvassing our neighborhood we did a lot of research into what benefits we'd receive. Turned out to be none. A neighbor had it done and they invited us to take a look. My first question was where are the batteries? Turns out there were none so you really aren't off the grid.
A short time ago I noticed that all of their solar panels were gone. Apparently they discovered that solar wasn't the way to go.
My home is in western Oregon and available sunlight in the winter is at a minimum and even in the summer the number of effective solar panels is restricted because our roof primarily faces east and west.
When I lived in North Central Washington I knew a guy who lived entirely off the grid. He used solar panels but had a bay of very large rechargeable batteries. The type that phone companies use in their Central Offices. He also had a generator for recharging the batteries in times of no sun. He had every electrical convenience he required.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 19, 2018, 11:18 AM:
For What It's Worth .........
What I'm seeing in this area is more & more solar panels being set up as shade for parking rather than up on the roof.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 19, 2018, 02:43 PM:
Well, I mentioned above that my system does not involve storage batteries, it's only good when the sun shines, at night, I'm on the grid.
But to say it has no utility at all is not accurate. This is Southern California and the sun shines a lot more than in coastal Washington. Therefore, I don't buy any electricity from Edison all day long. The last bill I got from Edison was for $29. Before I installed this solar crap, I was paying a little over $100 per month. Now, don't forget, I have a 36,000 gallon pool with a 2 HP pump that runs 18 hours a day in the summer time.
I'm still in an evaluation phase but since there was zero cash outlay, I'm dead certain that I'm saving some money on my power bill, how MUCH remains to be seen? But Vivent installed the system including three sets of solar cells on three different roofs, plus the inverter and associated conduit, including new smoke detectors and Co2 detecters all over the house, upstairs and down. Besides that they upgraded my service panel to 125Amp. And, they did a good job, you would have to look very close to see that it's a retrofit. And, circuit breakers and wiring ain't cheap ether. The system is capable of 43 continuous Amps DC.
I got a letter from Edison asking if I wanted to switch from annual billing to monthly and I haven't responded yet but I'm pretty sure I will go with a monthly bill, but so far, since last June, I have only paid $29, and plus $80 to Vivent. Either something is very wrong, or it's a pretty good deal? That's literally all I know, right now?
I showed this stuff to ko ko when he was here. He might say it's substantial plant installed, for no out of pocket, thus far?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 19, 2018, 07:23 PM:
Yes, a very impressive set-up.
So long as the contract didn't involve a drop of your blood on a thumbprint it seems like you got a really good deal.
Posted by earthwalker (Member # 4177) on May 20, 2018, 04:07 AM:
BIL in Utah put in solar to turn back his meter. No batteries. Said it's working for him. Seemed like everyone in his area was doing it. The power company started losing money so they stopped it.
We looked into it for the Challis home. We only pay 6 cents a kilowatt and the company doesn't buy back for chit. So we decided not to do it.
Still interested in a solar hot water heater. Just haven't had time to do a lot of looking.
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 20, 2018, 04:09 AM:
If you don't have batteries you've been sold a bill of goods ! grid tie solar helps nothing but the assholes who sold it to you. I will soon be installing a wind unit to eliminate the use of my back up generator ! Off the grid and loving it. haven't seen a utility bill for some time.......
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 20, 2018, 07:31 AM:
Are you sure about that, Paul? A "bill of goods" sounds like I've been cheated, somehow? All I have to do is pay Edison a baseline fee, forget the word, but it's the cheapest they offer for subsistence. It's the lowest rate, whatever it's called?
Besides that, I pay Vivent Solar and they help themselves to my Visa. So far, $80 total cost since last June.
What I don't know is how much will be the annual billing, but how bad could it be if it's the lowest rate they offer anybody? What I also don't know is what that eighty bucks represents that I paid for solar energy?
But I have three solar grids on my roof, a new upgraded service panel, an installed DC inverter and the stuff to make it work including satellite monitoring to both Vivent and Edison. And it didn't cost anything; I hesitate to use the word, "free", but the only contract provision is that I pay them based on my usage.
I know that I don't have the equipment to store power and I know that these panels are only working when the sun shines and I know that my meter will never run backwards, but if the excess goes to Edison, like if I go on vacation and use nothing, I don't know if that is how it works?
Anyway, bill of goods doesn't seem appropriate since I paid nothing upfront, and I'm paying less money than I was paying before the installation. As I said all along, I don't know the exact angle here, but until I start paying more than I was paying Edison, I'm not thinking I was screwed?
Being off the grid is a buzzword for rural situations. Here, in the big city, with power supplied to every home, to pay for generators and batteries and solar panels, etc. that's a reasonable option instead of paying the power company to plant telephone poles and supply you with electricity. Those batteries don't last forever. I remember when I was at Tim Behle's place, he had the whole set up and he had some minor problems, things he had to attend to and fix, at least the few times that I was there. It didn't run itself, as I recall?
But, as of right now, I'm not worried, I have a wait and see attitude. In the long run, maybe there's a better way? They have a lot $ tied up in this deal, I suppose they intend to make some money but I don't see exactly how it works?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 21, 2018, 03:34 AM:
Do you own it or do you lease it ?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 21, 2018, 03:35 AM:
And when you sell your home do the new owners have
to assume the lease?
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 21, 2018, 03:38 AM:
How many agencies are now fucking with your shit ?
I do not trust one of them !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 21, 2018, 06:42 AM:
First question: it's a 20 year lease with option to buy.
As to question #2: I'm pretty sure it is a Covenant whereby the new owner assumes responsibility?
Question #3: 500 or so, just like yours.
Now, addressing question #1, they think the useful life of the equipment is 20 years, more or less? I don't know the reason why I would suddenly want to purchase 20 year old stuff? Nor do I know who pays for the cost of replacing the stuff at the end of it's usefulness? First of all, I'm sure I will have sold and moved somewhere before that happens, and second, I doubt I will live another 20 years anyway so I'm not concerned.
I did get a cryptic letter from the county asking about the ownership issue a few months ago, I believe it concerned property valuation and taxes. A rep from Vivent Solar filled it out and signed it.
I am not very concerned about dire circumstances resulting from this transaction. I have no idea the value of this stuff and they didn't give it to me, I'm just "leasing" it for zero money and agree to pay them for the electricity the system generates. They had to inspect and approve my house structurally/suitability and qualify my credit before installing the stuff.
So, that's the whole enchilada, tell me where I fucked up?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 22, 2018, 03:45 AM:
How much money are you saving each month with the new system?
https://www.consumerreports.org/energy-saving/real-cost-of-leasing-vs-buying-solar-panels/
[ May 22, 2018, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: Paul Melching ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 22, 2018, 08:38 AM:
Once again, Paul:
Because they put me on an annual bill, I won't get the cost until they, (Edison) gets around to sending it. The whole thing is a little murky but all I can say is that I didn't pay anything for the install and so far Vivent Solar charged $80 to my Visa Card. This is since last June.
The Edison bills vary depending on my Air Conditioning usage, but basically, the cost would be usually around $100 and I think once it got up to $175 or so? Before they switched me to annual billing, the last bill I paid was $29, for a month.
So, without a storage system, I don't pay Edison all day long, but after dark, I'm buying power from Edison.
During the day, I can't really say....yet? The last bill I paid to Vivent Solar was $80 and I think that was for two months?
That kinda coincides with what they told me when I signed up, that I wold wind up paying between 40% and 65% of pre installation charges. It's less than "without" but I can't give you an exact amount?
My major complaint has been the endless delays and inspections, by everybody before actually throwing the switch. Not kidding, it was 7 or 8 months AFTER the stuff way actually on the roof before I got clearances to actually turn it on. It's only been operational about 3 months, even though it was installed in June 2017. Between the Solar Company, Edison and the City of Upland, they all had issues to sign off on, and multiple same issues, a total clusterfuck.
Obviously, there might be different and better ways, and maybe less costly, but I think I will ultimately be paying less money with the system than without it.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on May 22, 2018, 08:45 AM:
The one person that could most likely tell you if you got a deal or got bent over would be a realtor.
They probably see that kind of thing pretty regular.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 22, 2018, 12:32 PM:
ko ko, it's really doubtful I got bent over. I will be paying less for electricity for here on out. It's not a full blown independent installation, but it does provide power at a reduced rate and I didn't pay for it. Not now, or ever for the next 20 years. Vivent Solar installed and footed the bill, and I'm paying less than before, hardly my definition of getting bent over? I've been saying all along, somebody please show me the trick, the angle, where or how I screwed up? So far, I don't feel like I'm getting fucked over? But, is it the best deal in town? I don't know yet?
so....Stay tuned
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: PS My daughter has been down visiting for a few days and she just left, lives up north in San Rafael. Anyway, we were talking about my new solar stuff and she made mention of the house a couple blocks down the street and how unsightly it looked. I knew exactly which house she was talking about, it does look a little "Industrial". But, my panels are all facing south and since my house faces north, you cannot see these things. You can't even see them from the South because my property is about 10 feet higher than the house behind me. Every property is terraced at least 6' north to south for a couple miles, and why this town is called Upland. Google can see my solar panels but nobody else can. For what it's worth.
[ May 22, 2018, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on May 28, 2018, 06:44 AM:
The Edison bills vary depending on my Air Conditioning usage, but basically, the cost would be usually around $100 and I think once it got up to $175 or so?
I'm moving to Kali. My electrical bill this summer will easily average $300 a month or more, depending upon A/C usage, because energy costs have "necessarily increased". It was 100+ the past two days already - both new records for May. That fucker Allgore musta been right after all.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 28, 2018, 06:50 AM:
I know!
The only thing I remember about AZ elec usage was that Higgins said he used to pay about $600 a month when he was in Scottsdale. Then he glued the thermostat contacts so his wife couldn't turn it on.
So, I guess the only one paying less than me, is Paul. And, we never got a breakdown on what his installation costs were?
I'm not worried.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on May 28, 2018, 10:52 AM:
Equipment $ 7000.00 I did the install that would have been an additional 5k.
I bought the very best available Schneider electric from Germany.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 29, 2018, 06:08 AM:
Interesting!
So, is there anything that needs maintenance, regularly or eventually? How long do those storage batteries last? Do you have to grease bearings and keep up with warn parts, or is it all free energy, going forward? Just curious
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on May 29, 2018, 06:50 AM:
man, you guys make me feel good about my electric bill. I've NEVER had one over $100., ever. I don't have AC, don't need it, and I do burn some wood in the winter, but my electric avg. is about $80/month.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on May 29, 2018, 03:04 PM:
Yeah, I agree with you. The cost of energy across the board is so inconsistent that it deserves investigation. I think everybody knows that Arizona sticks it to electric power consumers.
Other states, I don't know but it seems that various states are free to gouge the residents for as much as they can get away with. California has a Public Utility Commission that sets rates and one thing that is very low and reasonable is natural gas.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 03, 2018, 05:58 AM:
They just snagged another $140 from my VISA. I hate that!
I'm going to ask for invoices instead. If that don't work, I will threaten to cancel the friggin' card!
And, if that don't work, I'll threaten to turn the system off and pay Edison; come get your shit off my roof!
I don't have a plan if plan B and plan C don't work?
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 03, 2018, 07:39 AM:
We hate auto pay the only two things I have are Directv been with them 20 years and get a discount for auto pay and Gieco linked to a credit card they remind me of ticks ! Did I mention I hate ticks !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2018, 06:17 AM:
Well, there you go! Different strokes for different folks! I will probably never be a DirectTV customer again. Never mind that they all suck, but DirectTV always manages to run at least $200 for basic cable, after the first year. If they were the only game in town, I'd still have to think very hard before giving them my money. But, I do notice, in rural places, like Ash Fork, and the entire Navajo Reservation, they don't have telephone pole electricity or running water, but they all have a DirectTV satellite dish!
Last I saw of my brother in law's huge 8 ft. satellite dish, it was stacked up behind the garage.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 04, 2018, 07:53 AM:
Mine runs about 70 a month and I have 500 channels of chrome plated crap I watch the history channel and starz encore for old westerns If it weren't for my lovely bride I would not have it at all !
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 04, 2018, 07:55 AM:
I also have Hughesnet which allows me to talk to you on the internet web thingy ma jig !
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 04, 2018, 07:58 AM:
And by the way whats with this cant git it up status my dick is so hard a cat couldn't scratch it !
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 04, 2018, 08:09 AM:
Paul........ That's WAY more information than we need. Now I must go wash my brain out with bleach to remove visual images.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2018, 08:49 AM:
Hey, if your custom title is not accurate, we will need proof and then will gladly change whatever part is incorrect. But, don't expect us to just take your word for it.
This advice applies to anybody with an issue involving a custom title. Easily corrected. We don't go for no fake shit! There may be a small charge?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: Paul, just have a member vouch for your claim. Maybe your good friend ko ko can help?
[ June 04, 2018, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 04, 2018, 10:49 AM:
Nope, can't help.
Whenever I pick up a hooker in Tucson I use Paul's name & only once has one said "You're NOT Paul".
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 04, 2018, 12:59 PM:
I'll be danged! That's what I do, too! But, passing through Barstow, I have never got away with it. They all know him at Lenwood; big spender, too!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 05, 2018, 04:14 AM:
You guys are just mean ! LOL
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 05, 2018, 05:07 AM:
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2018, 06:08 AM:
I remember when there was nothing there, at Lenwood. Now look! A major hub for tanking up and fast food on the way to "Lost Wages".
I swear, I am not exaggerating, but at Lenwood, they have the world's biggest In N Out! It is about the size of FOUR normal In N Out's put together, and they do draw a crowd of Vegas folks on a Friday night. It's HUGE!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on June 05, 2018, 06:33 AM:
Hell, remember when 'Stateline' consisted of Cactus Kate's & Pistol Pete's ? (or something like that)
Had or maybe still do, the Bonnie & Clyde car.
Last time I went thru it was the size Vegas was in the 70s.
Gamboling....A tax on people who can't do math.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 05, 2018, 01:40 PM:
I'll tell you something else. We used to pass through Vegas on a weekend hunt and I always wanted to take the time, coming or going to see Elvis at the International. Never did, and I regret it.
But, I always marveled at the California traffic every weekend going to Vegas and I used to say; you know, Palm Springs would be a perfect town for casinos and Vegas the shows. And I mean before there was any Indian Casinos. It's no damned wonder that they don't have an income tax in Nevada! Used to not have a sales tax, but I'm not totally sure if that's changed? For sure, a Californian buying a vehicle in Las Vegas will pay California sales tax of 8%.
Well, at least they still have legal whore houses, right, Paul? Years ago, Ash Meadows was the plushest cat house in the whole state, airstrip and even a black madam with the best talent. I watched Neal Armstrong land on the moon with an off duty prostitute at Ash Meadows while Pat was getting fixed up. Personally, I never was a customer, don't believe in paying for pussy. Probably a character flaw?
It bothered Nanc. She would ask friends what they thought of me waiting inside while Pat got laid. All her "friends" told her, "he's lying, don't believe him". But, why would I say anything? Stupid, I guess? But, this is weird: my mother in law, who also heard about it wanted me to take her youngest son up there and get him laid, she was worried about him. (with good reason) I didn't, so she sent him on a European Tour. That worked! Can't make this stuff up!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on June 06, 2018, 04:26 AM:
Never been to a brothel maybe I missed something but I doubt it! Vegas I use to take clients from the big builders in Phoenix up there I still remember at Summerlin Golf course being thanked and asked never to return (clients got a little playful with the golf carts after their 9:00 A.M. bloddy marys !). I always say that just below the shiny exterior lies absolutely nothing. Phony top to bottom. I paid for golf and shows and drinks never trim !
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on June 06, 2018, 04:38 AM:
Geeze! Another legend, smashed!
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