This is topic Snowmobiler Kills Moose with a Glock in forum Member forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 25, 2014, 05:58 PM:
http://clashdaily.com/2014/02/wicked-snow-mobiler-shoots-kills-attacking-moose-glock-graphic-video/
Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on February 25, 2014, 06:59 PM:
I hope wasn't in Alaska, if so I think Fish-N-Game will be talking to him.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 25, 2014, 08:30 PM:
Ok.............I'll bite.
Why would there be a problem if it was in Alaska ??
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 26, 2014, 05:31 AM:
He'd probably be in trouble in Utah too. Jack ass...
- DAA
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on February 26, 2014, 05:32 AM:
P.S. Because all he had to do was not approach the moose in the first place. And even after that, all he had to do was leave after the first charge.
He'd be looking at harrassment and illegal take in Utah. And rightly so, in my opinion. The guy handled that like a tool.
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 26, 2014, 05:38 AM:
I've had mute swans attack me on an idling jet-ski with more vigor than that moose did.
Agree with Dave, lots of options to have not provoked the situation. That little spiker didn't need shot...
Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on February 26, 2014, 07:13 AM:
Alaska Dept. of Fish and game regulations states you may not take game by; Driving, herding, harassing, or molesting game with any motorized vehicle such as an aircraft, airboat, snowmachine, motor boat, etc.
The guy saw the moose, clapped his hands from a ways back and THEN drove his machine closer to the moose. If it was in Alaska he'll get a citation I'm sure. Why he didn't just stop back farther and wait is beyond me. He could have fired a round into the woods and scared the moose away, or at least turned it around down the path the other direction. I know moose like to stay on hard trails when the snow is deep, so it's hard to say if it would have taken off of that trail.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on February 26, 2014, 09:09 AM:
Ok, that all makes sense.
Thanx.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Alaskan Yoter (Member # 169) on February 26, 2014, 04:24 PM:
It appears he instigated more the avoided the confrontation. Plus if you shoot it in self defense the law requires you to harvest it and turn it in.
I have had more of those encounters then I can count and never had to fire a shot. In this situation I would have stayed back or went around. In most cases if you keep founding they'll move out f the way.
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 27, 2014, 04:42 PM:
Ok, I'll play devils advocate. I've seen people up in arms about this all over the net and haven't commented anywhere, but will here. First off as near as I can tell the guy had nowhere else to go. So no going around. That said, he tried to push the moose on down the trail. I may or may not have done the same. I will guarantee I wouldn't have sat around for an hour waiting for the moose to move. I would have assumed that as I began to move slowly closer, the moose would have slowly moved away. That obviously didn't work. But then the moose became aggressive. At the point the moose came over the hood of my sled I would have been digging out my pistol also. He continued to try and haze the moose away and when the moose started back he gave it one warning shot more than I would have. There was another snowmobile behind him which may have been a wife or a kid. We don't know. But maybe he had more to protect than we know. At that point he got himself and the other snowmobiler away from the moose at which point he may have went back and finished it. We don't know. I also don't know what happened after that point. If the moose was salvaged or not. And I don't care. One thing I CAN guarantee is that if it were me there would have been no video ever show up ANYWHERE. That is the real problem I have with the guy.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 27, 2014, 04:59 PM:
The comments are unbelievable.
Here as well:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=008_1393078390
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 27, 2014, 05:12 PM:
Anybody venture a guess on the caliber? I am thinking .45 or 10mm.
Posted by CrossJ (Member # 884) on February 27, 2014, 05:20 PM:
quote:
One thing I CAN guarantee is that if it were me there would have been no video ever show up ANYWHERE. That is the real problem I have with the guy.
Roger That!
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 27, 2014, 05:22 PM:
Big enough I guess 49. I usually pack my FA .454.
I read tons of comments saying the guy should have turned around bla, bla, bla. There was no chance or place to turn around. How would you have like being in waist deep snow with your kid trying to jerk two sleds around in a narrow trail when bullwinkle came meandering up the trail.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 27, 2014, 05:35 PM:
I have not actually formed a settled opinion, as far as justification, but I give Cal credit for stating his.
The comments on 49's link sicken me. It's the Disney syndrome in play. People have taken the side of animals over humans. They said some unbelievable things; "hope you die soon" shit like that.
But that's what it has become, in this day and age. They equate animal life favorably against people. It's fucked up!
I would protect myself against an aggressive animal. Like Geordie said, posting the video for all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a big mistake.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on February 27, 2014, 05:38 PM:
Agree Cal, there was no way that guys was turning around. I had some friends who ride sleds look at the video, and they said with the depth of that snow turning around wasn't an option.
I guess the only other thing the guy could have done was wait for the moose to wander off the trail, if that was feasible.
Either way, that was some damn good shooting.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 28, 2014, 03:47 PM:
Watch the vid again, guys
As it begins, there's a trail leading off left of where this idiot comes to a stop and begins 'yip ping' at the moose.
He wouldn't have had to turn around, prolly just follow that trail clear around the moose to the next clearing he made it to after dumping his magazine. He ck, that trail was prolly blazed by another snomobiler just prior....one that actually had a fuckin brain in his head.
Sorry, that dipshit escalated the situation from the get go with his actions. His sled didn't even come to a full stop before his antagonizing behavior ensued.
IMHO, completely avoidable. And the fact that this dispshit posted the video is proof of what a moron he is...
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 28, 2014, 04:59 PM:
An awful lot of speculation on your part there Fred. You, and maybe the shooter, have no idea where the other trail leads where he could've turned left.
Far as I know, that trail that went to the left wasn't a trail at all but instead was where someone with a sled that was better at boon-dockin' than what the sled was of the shooter. Maybe the shooter was on a sled better suited for trail riding, instead of deep snow riding.
SO he pulled forward and started trying to spook the moose off trail. Moose didn't spook off and not only charged once, but looked to be getting ready to do it again.
I guess don't really see what he did wrong, other than post the video to the internet for all to see.
For those that don't know, boon-docking is when you take a sled off trail into a tree'd area. It can be quite challenging riding because you have to pick your line, maintain your speed, and be very good at handling your sled in tight spots, or you get stuck, even on sleds made for deep snow riding it ain't easy.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 28, 2014, 05:48 PM:
Very true, TR.
Point is, there were at least two options available to the lead sled shooter:
1. Stay put and let the moose make the next move.
2. Try that spur trail, which another sled obviously had already gone down.
I've rode sleds In deep snow and been stuck in fluffy powder with one, too. That was not fun to get out of, but would still choose that option over playing 'chicken' with a 800-1000lb moose...
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on February 28, 2014, 06:25 PM:
why are you taking away the shooters 3rd option, of easing forward and try to spook the moose off the trail?
Is it not at least partially expected that the moose would heed way? Did the shooter have several moose encounters in his past so that he had a reasonable expectation of what the moose would do? We don't know....
Since we don't know if the shooter has ever even had a close moose encounter ever, why do we expect him to KNOW that the moose MIGHT charge INSTEAD of moving off trail?
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on February 28, 2014, 06:56 PM:
I'm sticking to my guns, so to speak. That old trail off into black timber isn't where I'm going. Especially not with someone behind me. I have trail bailed and been buried many times. And with someone behind you, now you have two sleds to dig out and turn around. But then maybe the moose would have been gone!
I have a story that some of you may or may not like, but it cracked me up at the time.
A salty old rancher friend of mine was in his usual elk camp one year when the game warden rode into camp to "warn"
the camp that there was a grizzly up the trail aways and they should stay away from it. The rancher didn't miss a beat and said fair enough, you've warned us. Now ride your ass back up that trail and warn the grizzly that I'm well armed and he better stay the fuck away from me!
It doesn't really apply to this case, but maybe a little.
[ February 28, 2014, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on February 28, 2014, 08:11 PM:
This same "debate" arose on FB this past week. I agree with Cal on this, and caught some heat. The situation was dynamic and what happened from one moment to the next is irrelevant. What mattered was the outcome and that was determined by the moose coming back after trying to come over the nose of that sled. At that point, it was self defense and, for all intents and purpose, fuck the moose. It's just a moose.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 01, 2014, 02:54 AM:
I think what a lot of people tend to forget is that hindsight is always 20/20. If the rider would have had a crystal ball and would have known the moose was going to react that way, I believe he would have taken a different course of action.
It sucks that the moose had to be killed under the circumstances, but once it reached the point of no return the deed had to be done. Now, whether or not the rider went back and finished the moose off (if necessary) and reported the killing to the authorities, etc, is another story.
My purpose for posting this video is more or less to show what a determined man can do with a handgun.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 01, 2014, 04:28 AM:
TR, I didn't include that option, because, for me, pushing the issue wasn't one.
Being a licensed boat captain, I learned the " rules of the road" for safe navigation. One rule, broken down is: in a narrow channel, big boats have the right of way. And the reason behind the rule is that, big boats are 'restricted in their ability to maneuver', aka (RAM vessel). So, the bigger boat becomes the "stand on vessel" in that scenario, and the action of the "stand on vessel" is that it continues on its course, and the smaller boat heeds & gives way...
So, I reckon option 3 never entered my mind because of the thousands of hours I have at the helm of goodly sized sportfishing boats. Thinking back as to why I made that rush judgement , I immediately labeled that moose as the " big boat/ stand on vessel" in that narrow channel, lol. In other words, I personally would have let the big boat make its course known before approaching into a possible wreck.
Same " big boat" logic works on the road with tractor trailers, in a bar with a hot headed asshole, etc.
Anyhoo, the move I would have chose would have been to NOT move, at all, and let the moose determine the next course of action. Not saying that is the only " correct " maneuver, or as cut n dried as basic seamanship, but playing chicken with a friggin moose just doesn't compute in my head. Especially so, considering the guy goosed up on the moose repeatedly, after up his initial attempt to nudge it along, backfired.
As for hitting a moose with a pistola, I'd sure hope anyone carrying one would be capable of hitting an animal the size of a minivan!
[ March 01, 2014, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on March 01, 2014, 04:43 AM:
quote:
As for hitting a moose with a pistola, I'd sure hope anyone carrying one would be capable of hitting an animal the size of a minivan!
Fred, I meant more that he was able to hit the animal in the correct spots while under the duress of just having had moose hooves in his grille!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 01, 2014, 10:08 AM:
Fred, many times I have held on to the railings and extended my legs to fend off sail boaters that can't control their vessel. And, of course, they always have the right of way over power boats, port, starboard, either or, or both. Drinking involved, they still have right of way.
However, I don't agree with your assessment that there was some error in the guy advancing on the moose. In many cases, that might be all it takes to get them moving. In this case, didn't work, but that is hindsight, as 49 correctly pointed out.
Also, as far as that "turn off" that might have gone nowhere, it was not far past the moose where everything opened up and we have no inclination as to whether the guy turned around and did something with the animal, dispatching or dressing. So, the folks distressed about the condition of the poor animal have no case; it's just speculation.
People get so damned emotional when there is an animal involved, but like somebody above pointed out, it's just a moose, and if it had been hit by a car on the freeway, no cause for shedding a tear.
I am starting to get off the fence on this issue, thinking about the anthropomorphic angle. People waste too much emotion worrying about pain for a leg hold trapped fox, stuff like that. I think the guy in the video was rattled and maybe a bit too quick on the trigger but there again, I wasn't there, and a fucking bull moose weighs closer to 2,000 pounds than 1,000, never mind beating the hell out of your form of transportation, perhaps miles of walking away from relief.
I just don't know but I am willing to give the snowmobiler the benefit of the doubt. And sure as hell don't think he deserves the lunatic solutions in the comments to the video.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on March 01, 2014, 01:17 PM:
A lot of truth to your statement LB. Hundreds of thousands of deer hit and killed on the highways every year, nobody gives a shit, but let me snare one accidentally somewhere where somebody sees it and the shitstorm is unbelievable. And I just catch hell from the game and fish, but yet they won't even pick one up in the road ditch.
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 01, 2014, 02:18 PM:
Thinking out loud.........take it for what it's worth.
Seems to me that the guy didn't go looking for the moose; the moose found him. He may (or may not) have used poor judgement but I see no malicious forethought.
And;
If he had been unarmed and the moose had pounded him into snowmobile/people paste, wouldn't we now be mocking him for not carrying a gun to defend himself with ??
I dunno.........but if I'm sitting in the open, miles from nowhere, looking up at an angry animal towering over me, I'm gonna shit myself and shoot 'til the clips empty.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on March 03, 2014, 05:04 AM:
Don't get me wrong, I ain't crying over spilled moose.
Just sayin' that actually shooting the moose, as it stood in the video, would not be my option #1 to exercise.
Maybe you guys could explain how just waiting the moose out for a few minutes would not have been an option?
If the sledders were out joyriding, what's the friggin' rush to shoot your way down the trail, anyway?
Why are the devil's advocates here not conceding that exercising a bit of patience may well have diffused the confrontation?
I'll be curious to see what, if any charges are levied. From the AG&F laws Wookie cites regarding the incident, it would appear the guy is gonna get a spankin'...
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 03, 2014, 05:50 AM:
I don't give a fuck about the moose either. But I still think the guy is a jack ass for riding right up on it and forcing the issue the way he did. If he didn't know any better then he's both a jack ass and a moron.
- DAA
Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2014, 07:55 AM:
Looks like it was in Colorado..
http://www.10news.com/news/u-s-world/moose-rams-snowmobile-chases-snowmobiler-down-path-022614
Until you've had to deal with mad moose on a trail like this, it's all speculation on "what if". I've dealt with enough of them mushing dogs and running snowmachines to know this guy handled this situation very poorly. Chances are if he would have done a couple things differently he wouldn't have had to get a front kick from a moose or have to shoot it. I'm not against shooting moose...on the contrary, I love a freezer full of it.
Forget the trail off to the left, take that option off the table for now. Let's just assume the guy didn't see it and was focused on the moose.
If he was honestly concerned with not confronting the moose, he should have just stopped where he was and given the moose some distance and time. Chances are that moose would have calmed down and gone towards the opening. If his machine had reverse, which many new one's do...that would have been a very good option to use.
If he didn't have reverse or simply did not know what to do (which he doesn't), he could have stopped, waited for his friends to show up behind him and simply waited to see what the moose did. Put the two snowmachines on the trail between the moose and the people, get the gun out, and see if the moose advances closer or turns around. If the moose would have advanced and there was no way to scare it off with a shot into the woods (in the direction of the moose)....THEN I would say unload on that moose and protect yourself.
Hindsight is 20/20 and we have no idea if this guy is a tourist who rented that machine, or not. The guy knows how to shoot pretty well though and did a good job hitting the mark.
Advancing forward on the machine was a totally foolish idea and would be what the trooper here in Alaska would probably given him a citation for I'm sure. It sounds like Colorado has the same types of laws though, so it'll be interesting to see if he's cited.
Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on March 03, 2014, 05:10 PM:
guess someone needs to write the "handbook for close moose encounters", so that everyone will know what to do, or not to do, when you find yourself eye to eye with a moose. The booklet should include the many different scenarios that one might encounter, such as "close encounters with cow moose with young calf", and "close encounters with bull moose in rut", and "close encounters on the snowmobile trail", THAT way all the Monday morning quarterbacks will be able to direct everyone to the written rules that everyone seems to already know by heart, except the poor guy that posted this video.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 03, 2014, 05:58 PM:
quote:
except the poor guy that posted this video.
That right there is the key! I don't know shit about moose except they're friggin' big, and I've seen in some video that they can be grouchy. Don't believe I would have advanced down the trail, but I'm not sure how long he had been sitting there. That said, I would have been ready to shoot a lot sooner than the moose murderer. He would have taken fire before he got close enough to strike the sled for damn sure. I'm leaning toward poor judgment on the part of the shooter though.
Like has been mentioned, I sure as HELL would have never posted my GoPro video for all to see, critique, and probably cite me. Dumbass!!
[ March 03, 2014, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2014, 07:49 PM:
I guess it's hard to assume that most people know not to approach an animal that is acting abnormal. I'll work on the book though and leave notes for a comment section if you want though TrNco?
Chapter 1 would be....The Do's and Do Nots of GoPro'ing..
Chapter 2....Approach animals that act abnormal or menacing if you want to get your face kicked in.
Common sense simply does not apply to some people in many situations.
[ March 03, 2014, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: TundraWookie ]
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on March 03, 2014, 08:03 PM:
What the fvck is wrong with a society that has to "selfie" and "GoPro" every single experience they have in life..... bunch of foolhardy morons!! As far as the incident with the moose.... meh, whatever, it could go either way.
I do like Cals bear story though!
Posted by TundraWookie (Member # 1044) on March 03, 2014, 08:11 PM:
Everybody wants to be famous on the internet. It's a society who wants instant happiness and pleasure..
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on March 04, 2014, 07:50 AM:
Anyone in this day and age recreating in the winter backcountry that doesn't know any better than to ride up on any winter stressed animal in the snow on any vehicle is an idiot and exactly the kind of fucktard that gets trails closed and motorized vehicles banned.
But the absolute, iron clad, prima facie evidence that the guy is a complete moron lies in the simple fact that he posted the video.
You tell me who posts something like that of themself except a Fucking IDIOT. Case closed.
- DAA
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 04, 2014, 03:52 PM:
I agree with that, BUT.
I bet he sent the video to a friend that stabbed him in the back, 'cause. Nobody's that stupid.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on March 04, 2014, 04:38 PM:
Sarcasm is one of my favorite things in the whole wide world.
Posted by Fur_n_Dirt (Member # 4467) on March 04, 2014, 05:02 PM:
This is a situation of "bad timing"
Bad timing for a dude to ride up on a moose...
Bad timing for the moose to fuck with a guy that's packing..
It's amazing how many other forums are talking about this vid.
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