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Author
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Topic: Snowmobiler Kills Moose with a Glock
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Alaskan Yoter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 169
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posted February 25, 2014 06:59 PM
I hope wasn't in Alaska, if so I think Fish-N-Game will be talking to him.
Posts: 235 | From: Wasilla, Alaska | Registered: Mar 2003
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 25, 2014 08:30 PM
Ok.............I'll bite.
Why would there be a problem if it was in Alaska ??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 26, 2014 05:31 AM
He'd probably be in trouble in Utah too. Jack ass...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted February 26, 2014 05:32 AM
P.S. Because all he had to do was not approach the moose in the first place. And even after that, all he had to do was leave after the first charge.
He'd be looking at harrassment and illegal take in Utah. And rightly so, in my opinion. The guy handled that like a tool.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 26, 2014 05:38 AM
I've had mute swans attack me on an idling jet-ski with more vigor than that moose did.
Agree with Dave, lots of options to have not provoked the situation. That little spiker didn't need shot...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TundraWookie
Knows what it's all about
Member # 1044
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posted February 26, 2014 07:13 AM
Alaska Dept. of Fish and game regulations states you may not take game by; Driving, herding, harassing, or molesting game with any motorized vehicle such as an aircraft, airboat, snowmachine, motor boat, etc.
The guy saw the moose, clapped his hands from a ways back and THEN drove his machine closer to the moose. If it was in Alaska he'll get a citation I'm sure. Why he didn't just stop back farther and wait is beyond me. He could have fired a round into the woods and scared the moose away, or at least turned it around down the path the other direction. I know moose like to stay on hard trails when the snow is deep, so it's hard to say if it would have taken off of that trail.
Posts: 857 | From: Alaska | Registered: Dec 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted February 26, 2014 09:09 AM
Ok, that all makes sense.
Thanx.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 7576 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Alaskan Yoter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 169
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posted February 26, 2014 04:24 PM
It appears he instigated more the avoided the confrontation. Plus if you shoot it in self defense the law requires you to harvest it and turn it in.
I have had more of those encounters then I can count and never had to fire a shot. In this situation I would have stayed back or went around. In most cases if you keep founding they'll move out f the way.
Posts: 235 | From: Wasilla, Alaska | Registered: Mar 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted February 27, 2014 04:42 PM
Ok, I'll play devils advocate. I've seen people up in arms about this all over the net and haven't commented anywhere, but will here. First off as near as I can tell the guy had nowhere else to go. So no going around. That said, he tried to push the moose on down the trail. I may or may not have done the same. I will guarantee I wouldn't have sat around for an hour waiting for the moose to move. I would have assumed that as I began to move slowly closer, the moose would have slowly moved away. That obviously didn't work. But then the moose became aggressive. At the point the moose came over the hood of my sled I would have been digging out my pistol also. He continued to try and haze the moose away and when the moose started back he gave it one warning shot more than I would have. There was another snowmobile behind him which may have been a wife or a kid. We don't know. But maybe he had more to protect than we know. At that point he got himself and the other snowmobiler away from the moose at which point he may have went back and finished it. We don't know. I also don't know what happened after that point. If the moose was salvaged or not. And I don't care. One thing I CAN guarantee is that if it were me there would have been no video ever show up ANYWHERE. That is the real problem I have with the guy.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted February 27, 2014 04:59 PM
The comments are unbelievable.
Here as well:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=008_1393078390
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted February 27, 2014 05:12 PM
Anybody venture a guess on the caliber? I am thinking .45 or 10mm.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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CrossJ
SECOND PLACE: PAUL RYAN Look-a-like contest
Member # 884
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posted February 27, 2014 05:20 PM
quote:
One thing I CAN guarantee is that if it were me there would have been no video ever show up ANYWHERE. That is the real problem I have with the guy.
Roger That!
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A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body.
Posts: 1025 | From: on a water tower | Registered: Jul 2006
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted February 27, 2014 05:22 PM
Big enough I guess 49. I usually pack my FA .454.
I read tons of comments saying the guy should have turned around bla, bla, bla. There was no chance or place to turn around. How would you have like being in waist deep snow with your kid trying to jerk two sleds around in a narrow trail when bullwinkle came meandering up the trail.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted February 27, 2014 05:35 PM
I have not actually formed a settled opinion, as far as justification, but I give Cal credit for stating his.
The comments on 49's link sicken me. It's the Disney syndrome in play. People have taken the side of animals over humans. They said some unbelievable things; "hope you die soon" shit like that.
But that's what it has become, in this day and age. They equate animal life favorably against people. It's fucked up!
I would protect myself against an aggressive animal. Like Geordie said, posting the video for all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking is a big mistake.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31447 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted February 27, 2014 05:38 PM
Agree Cal, there was no way that guys was turning around. I had some friends who ride sleds look at the video, and they said with the depth of that snow turning around wasn't an option.
I guess the only other thing the guy could have done was wait for the moose to wander off the trail, if that was feasible.
Either way, that was some damn good shooting.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 28, 2014 03:47 PM
Watch the vid again, guys
As it begins, there's a trail leading off left of where this idiot comes to a stop and begins 'yip ping' at the moose.
He wouldn't have had to turn around, prolly just follow that trail clear around the moose to the next clearing he made it to after dumping his magazine. He ck, that trail was prolly blazed by another snomobiler just prior....one that actually had a fuckin brain in his head.
Sorry, that dipshit escalated the situation from the get go with his actions. His sled didn't even come to a full stop before his antagonizing behavior ensued.
IMHO, completely avoidable. And the fact that this dispshit posted the video is proof of what a moron he is...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted February 28, 2014 04:59 PM
An awful lot of speculation on your part there Fred. You, and maybe the shooter, have no idea where the other trail leads where he could've turned left.
Far as I know, that trail that went to the left wasn't a trail at all but instead was where someone with a sled that was better at boon-dockin' than what the sled was of the shooter. Maybe the shooter was on a sled better suited for trail riding, instead of deep snow riding.
SO he pulled forward and started trying to spook the moose off trail. Moose didn't spook off and not only charged once, but looked to be getting ready to do it again.
I guess don't really see what he did wrong, other than post the video to the internet for all to see.
For those that don't know, boon-docking is when you take a sled off trail into a tree'd area. It can be quite challenging riding because you have to pick your line, maintain your speed, and be very good at handling your sled in tight spots, or you get stuck, even on sleds made for deep snow riding it ain't easy.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted February 28, 2014 05:48 PM
Very true, TR.
Point is, there were at least two options available to the lead sled shooter:
1. Stay put and let the moose make the next move.
2. Try that spur trail, which another sled obviously had already gone down.
I've rode sleds In deep snow and been stuck in fluffy powder with one, too. That was not fun to get out of, but would still choose that option over playing 'chicken' with a 800-1000lb moose...
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted February 28, 2014 06:25 PM
why are you taking away the shooters 3rd option, of easing forward and try to spook the moose off the trail?
Is it not at least partially expected that the moose would heed way? Did the shooter have several moose encounters in his past so that he had a reasonable expectation of what the moose would do? We don't know....
Since we don't know if the shooter has ever even had a close moose encounter ever, why do we expect him to KNOW that the moose MIGHT charge INSTEAD of moving off trail?
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted February 28, 2014 06:56 PM
I'm sticking to my guns, so to speak. That old trail off into black timber isn't where I'm going. Especially not with someone behind me. I have trail bailed and been buried many times. And with someone behind you, now you have two sleds to dig out and turn around. But then maybe the moose would have been gone!
I have a story that some of you may or may not like, but it cracked me up at the time.
A salty old rancher friend of mine was in his usual elk camp one year when the game warden rode into camp to "warn"
the camp that there was a grizzly up the trail aways and they should stay away from it. The rancher didn't miss a beat and said fair enough, you've warned us. Now ride your ass back up that trail and warn the grizzly that I'm well armed and he better stay the fuck away from me!
It doesn't really apply to this case, but maybe a little.
[ February 28, 2014, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: 3 Toes ]
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted February 28, 2014 08:11 PM
This same "debate" arose on FB this past week. I agree with Cal on this, and caught some heat. The situation was dynamic and what happened from one moment to the next is irrelevant. What mattered was the outcome and that was determined by the moose coming back after trying to come over the nose of that sled. At that point, it was self defense and, for all intents and purpose, fuck the moose. It's just a moose.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 01, 2014 02:54 AM
I think what a lot of people tend to forget is that hindsight is always 20/20. If the rider would have had a crystal ball and would have known the moose was going to react that way, I believe he would have taken a different course of action.
It sucks that the moose had to be killed under the circumstances, but once it reached the point of no return the deed had to be done. Now, whether or not the rider went back and finished the moose off (if necessary) and reported the killing to the authorities, etc, is another story.
My purpose for posting this video is more or less to show what a determined man can do with a handgun.
Posts: 2274 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Dec 2009
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knockemdown
Our staff photo editing Guru, par excellence
Member # 3588
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posted March 01, 2014 04:28 AM
TR, I didn't include that option, because, for me, pushing the issue wasn't one.
Being a licensed boat captain, I learned the " rules of the road" for safe navigation. One rule, broken down is: in a narrow channel, big boats have the right of way. And the reason behind the rule is that, big boats are 'restricted in their ability to maneuver', aka (RAM vessel). So, the bigger boat becomes the "stand on vessel" in that scenario, and the action of the "stand on vessel" is that it continues on its course, and the smaller boat heeds & gives way...
So, I reckon option 3 never entered my mind because of the thousands of hours I have at the helm of goodly sized sportfishing boats. Thinking back as to why I made that rush judgement , I immediately labeled that moose as the " big boat/ stand on vessel" in that narrow channel, lol. In other words, I personally would have let the big boat make its course known before approaching into a possible wreck.
Same " big boat" logic works on the road with tractor trailers, in a bar with a hot headed asshole, etc.
Anyhoo, the move I would have chose would have been to NOT move, at all, and let the moose determine the next course of action. Not saying that is the only " correct " maneuver, or as cut n dried as basic seamanship, but playing chicken with a friggin moose just doesn't compute in my head. Especially so, considering the guy goosed up on the moose repeatedly, after up his initial attempt to nudge it along, backfired.
As for hitting a moose with a pistola, I'd sure hope anyone carrying one would be capable of hitting an animal the size of a minivan!
[ March 01, 2014, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: knockemdown ]
Posts: 2202 | From: behind fascist lines | Registered: Mar 2010
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4949shooter
SECOND PLACE HIGGINS (MAGNUM P.I.) LOOK A LIKE CONTEST
Member # 3530
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posted March 01, 2014 04:43 AM
quote:
As for hitting a moose with a pistola, I'd sure hope anyone carrying one would be capable of hitting an animal the size of a minivan!
Fred, I meant more that he was able to hit the animal in the correct spots while under the duress of just having had moose hooves in his grille!
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