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Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 04:09 AM:
I will be heading out to New Mexico Tech for some training in April. How is the hunting out there? Should I put a lot of effort into this? My classes will run until around 4:30 or 5:00 PM, so myself and another hunter from work thought we might try a couple of night stands.
I am wondering if it will be worth bringing my own rifle, or should we sign out a couple of AR-15's from the local or state police in the area? I am thinking for the amount of hunting we will do that it won't pay to lug our own rifles with us on the plane and all.
Are these coyotes too call shy and we shouldn't even bother? My buddy went last week and he said he saw guys in camo in some of the diners. Probably not a real good sign as far as calling goes..
Posted by Paul Melching (Member # 885) on January 20, 2013, 06:57 AM:
Lots of coyotes in N.M. been thru Soccorro on my way to an elk hunt in Ruidoso, mostly hunted coyotes down south with my hunting Partner lots of coyotes and some a-hole ranchers.Did call a couple while elk hunting just for fun did not have a rifle with me as I was there assiting an old friend in his elk adventure.He shot and missed with a 300 Win. mag. lucky coyote.The elk was not so lucky however.Good luck and have fun.
I know zip about night hunting.
Posted by Aznative (Member # 506) on January 20, 2013, 08:10 AM:
Since when can someone check out ARs from the local police?
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 08:23 AM:
Thanks Paul.
AZ, I am not sure of the nature of your question, but as an LEO I (might) be able to sign out an AR or two. We don't know for sure though, and this is something we will have to look into.
Other than that, my buddies that went to the course last week made some friends, so we may be able to borrow a gun or two. We shall see.
I was considering bring my R-15 machine gun, but with the present climate I don't know if I want to take the chance of the airline losing it. I have a Remington model 700 I could bring, which would be more easily replaced.
Posted by DiYi (Member # 3785) on January 20, 2013, 08:38 AM:
I'd love to hunt coyotes there.Hunted there the first time this year and loved the country!I was archery elk hunting(I'd post a pic if I really knew how)but the wife and I have talked of coyote hunting there ever since-even moving there.
I'd bring the 700. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 09:03 AM:
quote:
I'd bring the 700.
Sounds good. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 20, 2013, 09:15 AM:
Serious question;
Why not just use your regular carry weapon???
Seems like the practice you would get on live coyotes would be invaluable in the real world.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 09:26 AM:
Koko I actually thought about that. The thing is, I don't know if I will ever get back out west for a hunting opportunity, at least in the near future, so I want to make the most of it.
It might come down to that though.
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 20, 2013, 09:59 AM:
Nick, I'm with ya. I'd probably leave the R-15 "machine gun" at home.
It would appear prices have went thru the roof, and then availabilty is a huge concern.
Honestly never really cared for or paid much attention to AR's. Kinda sorta' kicking myself now.
Well good luck and enjoy the trip.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 10:30 AM:
Thanks Dave. The model 700 will be what I take if I can't find something out there.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 20, 2013, 11:19 AM:
49, If you are taking any firearm('s) by air , insure them thru your airline. TSA may be a fed agency but sorry to say they should be guarding outhouse dump lines at the city dump. Insurance is cheap, + your firearms will be walked thru at each and every stop. AND they have to inspect them before release to you ie: you see them before leaving airport.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 12:02 PM:
PP, how do we go about insuring them? Do we do it the day of the flight or do we make the arrangements prior?
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 20, 2013, 05:22 PM:
Sorry 49, I got a call. Call your airline asap, tell them you wish to insure your firearm(s)& acc's. I have always placed by binos, rifle, and shotgun in an airline approved case. My Beneli 1500.00, my pistol 1,000.00, my rifle&scope 2500.00, binos 1500.00 etc etc. 10k ins was about 100.00 round trip. But at least i know they have to handle it with hands and someones head will roll if it or any part comes up damaged or missing. I can't tell you how safe i feel doing it!!!!!!
Posted by JD (Member # 768) on January 20, 2013, 05:32 PM:
Sounds like fun Nick, I hope you stumble into a truckload of coyotes!!!! You'll want to go back every year. Good luck to ya !!!
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 20, 2013, 06:14 PM:
PP I don't know which airline we will be flying yet. As soon as I find out I will call them.
JD...thanks.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 20, 2013, 07:01 PM:
Alaska Air, American & Delta is who i have insured with. All were about the same dollar wise when i used them. Main thing is/was your things won't be beat to hell when you get there and back home.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on January 20, 2013, 08:15 PM:
49, i re read your post. I see you have some time to choose an airline. Heck i would take whatever you want to hunt with on your trip. If it's a one time only deal, take your chine gun and your whatever. The insurance option gives ya some room and a margain of comfort. Enjoy your trip.
I use a Pelican case (plastic) that has held up well on several trips, if that is of any help. Also If i can help you, i will try.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 21, 2013, 03:34 AM:
Mike, I have a nice Pelican case. I might take out the foam and use my drag bag inside the hard plastic shell.
My job will be picking the airline, since this is a sponsored trip for training purposes. Ihat's why I don't want to go too crazy, because I will be in the clasroom, or outdoors on a range all day. We are hoping to do some hunting at night, after class.
I will know more about the airline closer to April. We are still hoping to borrow some weapons when we get out there. It would make things a lot easier. I will keep you posted.
Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 21, 2013, 02:22 PM:
If you have someone to receive it in NM, secure the rifle in a hardcase and then into a cardboard box with no markings to indicate contents. Mail it registered mail to yourself at the destination. It will have to be signed for by someone at the other end, but Registered Mail is the most secure way to send anything, and long guns being sent from you to you can cross statelines without an FFL involved. When my old partner Matt got transferred to Alaska, he dropped four long guns off here. I boxed them up and shipped them to him at his new address. Pulled the bolts and sent them under a different label. All four guns got there - from Abilene, KS to Anchorage, AK - in three days. Cost me (him) $160 total, fully insured. The bolt is sent separately with long guns because, I have been told, if the gun is stolen along the way, they cannot get a new bolt for it without proof of ownership. Hell if I know how true that is but I had several ppl reiterate that fact to me. Got me to thinking... if I had to show proof of ownership on my guns, I'd be screwed. Aside from the fact that they're in my gun safe and they don't trigger an NCIC hit, I got nada.
I know a couple guys who have hunted Alaska a couple times and they routinely mail they're guns ahead to their outfitter now. Have never had a problem with it. My Postmaster helped me box up the ones I sent and he had the regs on the table next to him to make sure everything was legit.
[ January 21, 2013, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 22, 2013, 12:11 PM:
In my experience, traveling with firearms, they seem to take inordinately good care of them. They are handled separately from other baggage, I really don't think the TSA people, (whom I dislike because of their fucked up attitude) have anything to do with transport. It's the airline's responsibility. All TSA is involved with is carry ons, so far as I know?
But, make no mistake, checking firearms at the ticket counter is almost a guarantee that they will arrive safely. Just make sure you jump through the correct hoops, aircarrier approved container, proper documentation, "UNLOADED" and serviceable locks on the case. You can even pack cartridges in the case, now. I never bother with removing the bolt. What the hell good is it if you receive your gun at the terminal and the bolt get's lost?
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: while separate insurance is probably a good idea, I rely on my homeowners policy. I pay extra for $25,000 of coverage which is in force, regardless of where the loss occurs.
[ January 22, 2013, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2013, 12:35 PM:
Flew down to AZ a few times with guns, was'nt a big deal getting them checked in or out again.
The only concern I had was on my last trip instead of going to a seperate room to pick my guns up the case was put out with the rest of the baggage. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 22, 2013, 01:42 PM:
When I moved to Texas, and back again, I was shocked at the amount of damage both my hard (aluminum) case and my rifles sustained... they certainly didn't receive any "special care" (*and both required sighting in again, at both ends of the trip). ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And like Tim, I was horrified to find my case sitting along side the baggage carousel were anyone could have walked off with them, when arriving back in Seattle.
Lance,
That's great information, and I'll use it to never ever take a firearm on an airliner again (and perhaps to get one sent here, in the near future).
I really could stand to burn some powder!
Krusty
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2013, 02:01 PM:
You can buy a replacement bolt most anywhere if its a popular brand rifle ( Rem. custom actions, AR's, ect. ) and you don't need to prove ownership of the action to get one. In most cases though you will have to get the bolt fitted by a gunsmith and headspace checked.. Keep the bolts with the guns when shipping or you could end up sitting in a hotel room waiting for the bolts to arrive while everyone else is out hunting, and then the big question. If it arrives....
Edit to add: If the need should ever arise to where you have to prove ownership of a gun and you don't happen to have a copy of your receipt in your pocket or billfold just get ahold of the gun dealer or gunsmith you bought it from and they can fax a copy to you or where it maybe needed.. They have to keep records...
[ January 22, 2013, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 22, 2013, 02:12 PM:
Well I just found out the area is surrounded by Indian reservation land, and they told my buddies at last week's class they WILL arrest you if they find you on it.
This is looking bleak, as far as getting any hunting in. The classes are all day long, and won't give us much time to plan anything, especially with the land situation.
Anyways, there is always the Buckhorn in San Antonio. It was mentioned on Food Network.
[ January 22, 2013, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: 4949shooter ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 22, 2013, 03:38 PM:
49, I'm not a lawyer, (thank God) but I have an opinion about what you were told.
First of all, the fucking indians don't own everything, you can find somewhere to hunt, just about anywhere you happen to be, in NM.
Second, Tribal Police only arrest cops they find trespassing.
(just kidding)
But, it is my opinion, based on decades on reservation land. Tribal police may detain you, and in rare circumstances, they could confiscate a firearm. I have knowledge of two flagrant violators, people I know through Club affiliations. And, both of them got their guns back 30 days later, no fines, no nothing. They were just concerned that those people wouldn't accept a warning that they were violating tribal law so they made sure they would comply.
Third, I do not think they really have jurisdiction over ANYBODY who is not a tribal member? If you break a law, they call in the county sheriff and from detention by the tribal cops, it will be determined if you get cited or arrested, but all actions, (subsequent) will take place off the reservation.
Fourth- I also know a bastard that has done some really dastardly deeds involving cheating on hunt contests who was detained on a certain reservation. And, he was extremely belligerent, I'm told he challenged the officer to a "boxing" match. Turned out he had a warrant for something and was prosecuted and I am pretty sure he was heavily fined and lost his right to firearms, so they confiscated what was seized and rendered them to scrap metal. But, all of this took place off site, which is why, in the events with which I am familiar, I do not think they want anything to do with non tribal members and probably couldn't do much, even if so inclined. This guy was rendered to, and filed on by the State Of Arizona, not X reservation, where the offense occurred.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS but, in the case of L.E. they would probably drive you around in the back of an unheated camper all night while they continued patrol. lol
Posted by Baldknobber (Member # 514) on January 22, 2013, 05:45 PM:
4949, I may live in Mo. now, but I was born in N.M. and lived there and still go there to hunt nearly every year. You can go to a Wal-Mart, Dollar General, some truck stops and find a N.M. road atlas. It will show all BLM, state lease, Indian reservations, etc. It's all color coded as such. I'm looking at mine now and there is plenty of land that is BLM between Socorro and San Antomio. These atlas' are about 20 bucks. Also shows lots of other roads and such. Hope this helps.
Posted by 4949shooter (Member # 3530) on January 22, 2013, 07:35 PM:
Thanks both to you Baldknobber and Leonard.
Yes, your information helps.
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 22, 2013, 08:10 PM:
Although I have no real world experience, my opposing belief is that Tribal Popo can and will do whatever they see fit to any violator on their soveriegn lands. Heard tales of a paleface who shot a lion without a tag on an AZ Apache rez and he got fukked, big time. My feeling is that its like being in another country, their laws and customs are different. I would agree that there HAS to be someplace to hunt around there. Maybe even check out the price of hunting the rez. Some of them are reasonable.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 22, 2013, 08:20 PM:
Yes, possibly, Jimanez? It boils down to what you have "heard" versus facts I have knowledge of, and on which I base my opinions. I guess you could be right?
On the other hand, I know they lay it on pretty heavy about the sovereign shit, while still taking money from the government and paying income tax and obeying all laws of the Sovereign United States Of America..... which also tells them when to shit and when to shut up. They ain't as "sovereign" as they keep telling us.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: My guess is that the idiot that shot that lion got fucked by New Mexico Fish and Game, not tribal police.
[ January 22, 2013, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 22, 2013, 08:50 PM:
Can't speak for all tribal lands but one of them I have been hunting on for over 20 years does have its own tribal laws which include everyone and not restricted to just tribal members..
The tribal DNR has its own little rule book just like everyone else and its up to the hunter to read it and ask questions if needed, thats why they give you a phone number along with it. When in doubt, ask..
If you break a law yes you will have to pay a fine, if it happens to be a big-game violation then yes they can and will take your gun and what ever else they want. I've found the ones I have delt with are fare and will cut you some slack at times depending on what you did wrong..
An example is Rshaw and Geordie was hunting with me one time and we met up with one of the tribal wardens who I knew pretty good. Deer season was still going on at the time and one of there rules requires you to have a orange hat or vest on when in the field. I had a orange hat in the truck but other than that non of us had any orange clothing on at the time. We got off with just becarefull out there..
A year later I was out for a contest and brought the ATV along and planned to use it for getting to my stands, I also noticed others where doing it so I did'nt question weather it was legal or not.. Well I ended up getting stopped by the tribale warden and he got me up to speed on the ATV laws which states No ATV use while deer season is going on.. I got off with just a verble warning and he said I should stop in the office next trip and get a permitt which was free..
A couple years back here in Mn. there was some guys fishing on a big lake thats devided in half, one side being Indian land or water and the other belonging to the state and both side had the boundries clearly marked..
Anyway these guys that were out fishing happen to go past the line and was caught by the tribale wardens, the white guys made a big stink about it so the warden exercised his right to arrest them and take the boat and all fishing equipement. The guys were released on bail and equipement kept till they appeared in court..
It got to be a long drawn out court battle and stopped following what was going on but I believe they never got the equipement back.. All they had to do is play nice and they could of just got a ticket out of the deal if anything...
Posted by jimanaz (Member # 3689) on January 22, 2013, 10:01 PM:
Actually he got fucked by SCAT and AZGFD and all reciprocal states. Ouch. Maybe what I "heard" are facts too. I'm just saying it didn't happen to me so all I know is what I've been told. Same, same, maybe?
Edit:
By all means, test Tonto if you're so inclined. I just wouldn't recommend it.
[ January 22, 2013, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: jimanaz ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 23, 2013, 12:17 AM:
Listen, Sport, I'm not interested in "testing" anything, but I'm not talking through my ass either. Ain't my first fucking rodeo. I know plenty enough about tribal affairs and I'm not talking about what they "might" do if you give them no choice. But, they don't seem to want to do more than advise and warn, as Tim's rambling post illustrates. That is, if you read it closely.
Good hunting. LB
edit: oh, I wrote NM tribal, didn't I? BFD
[ January 23, 2013, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by JP (Member # 4095) on January 23, 2013, 08:53 AM:
Several years ago we spent three days at Point of Pines on the SCAT trout fishing. Same tribal game warden checked our fishing license every morning. They do have arrest authority and use it, to their advantage. They also have a reciprocal agreement with the Az game and fish commisssion and that ties them in with all the other states that signed on. I have a friend who violated the fishing regs up there and he paid dearly for it.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 23, 2013, 10:35 AM:
I don't recall saying that indian cops do not have powers of arrest. Considering the umpteen thousand sovereign reservations, it wouldn't be accurate for me or anybody else to say what they can do or will do. They are rather protective of their fish and game rights, that's for sure. But, in my experience, once you actually get in a real jamb, you will be dealing with the county sheriff and their jails. And, no I have not been arrested, ever. But, I was asked to remove myself from tribal lands for nothing more than trespass. That always rankled me, though. The Morongo res has a fucking electric gate. Why is it that they can go anywhere in the U.S. but American citizens can't be on some reservations beyond a certain line in the sand? Signs typically say; Tribal members only beyond this point. I don't know, maybe it's just a twist on regular NO TRESPASSING signs. But how many property owners would get away with a sign that says; NO CALIFORNIANS ALLOWED. I admit, my attitude is generally, fuck 'em.
Good hunting. LB
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