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Author
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Topic: I Heard it Through the Grapevine
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 09:29 AM
... that the winner of the 2010 World Predator Calling Champion Howling was convicted of poaching in Bland County, VA... Anyone know if it's true? I've read it in several spots.
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted June 04, 2011 09:39 AM
Who was/is the winner?
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 09:59 AM
Jason Groseclose
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted June 04, 2011 10:32 AM
That rumor was floating around the 2011 contest down in Georgia last month.
Here are the results of the 2011 Championship:
For the Distress divison #1-Jon Paul Moody #2-Ernie Wilson #3-Al Morris
Coyote Vocalization Division #1-Jon Paul Moody #2-Jason Groseclose #3-Tim Deckard
World All-Around #1-Jon Paul Moody #2-Jason Groseclose #3-Al Morris
[ June 04, 2011, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: Semp ]
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 419 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 10:39 AM
Do you know if it's true?
If so, what kind of message does that send allowing him to participate?
[ June 04, 2011, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 04, 2011 10:54 AM
Smithers, what did Jason poach? Could you provide a link to some of the places you read about this?
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted June 04, 2011 11:36 AM
Jason didn't win the Coyote Vocalization Division i don't think
and as for the Grapevine i would nee better proof then that. and what exactly he did
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted June 04, 2011 12:14 PM
I do not know if the rumor is true.
George,
Jason won the Coyote Vocalization Division in 2010.
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 419 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted June 04, 2011 12:35 PM
00000000 thought he asked about this year
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted June 04, 2011 12:55 PM
Jason is a friend of mine. I doubt there is any truth to it, but I will contact him anyways.
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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Semp
GOLD STAR MEMBER
Member # 3074
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posted June 04, 2011 01:04 PM
I hope it is not true. I talked to him and he seems like a nice guy.
He does a hell of a job with that diaphragm call.
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Always remember: That court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend.
Posts: 419 | From: Kentucky | Registered: Aug 2008
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 01:13 PM
Something of that magnitude should be varified before being posted to the web...
Edit: That was easy enough to research. According to court records Jason pled guilty to using a spotlight and having a firearm in his vehicle w/o permission(SPOTLIGHT/FIREARM/W/O PERMISSN). He was fined $200.
Court records don't give details but no mention of poaching was made... I guess using a spotlight at night in some states is poaching?
Nikonut ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ June 04, 2011, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 01:53 PM
So... Niko, in your mind, having a spotlight and a weapon in a vehicle means you are out scouting? I doubt it. If you have a spotlight and a loaded weapon close at hand you are up to no good, IMO.
AND! In my first post I didn't make an accusation, I asked a question. You have no idea what my motives are.
[ June 04, 2011, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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R.Shaw
Peanut Butter Man, da da da da DAH!
Member # 73
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posted June 04, 2011 02:43 PM
He took a newbie hunting 2 counties over. The fellow said he had permission on the farm, but it turned out he did not. Those damn deer hunters can get really anal, so the game warden was called. Jason could do nothing other than take the ticket. They hadn't fired a shot all night. The hunting method was legal, the ground they were on was not.
Posts: 567 | From: Nebraska | Registered: Jan 2003
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 02:45 PM
Then please tell us what your motives are...
quote:
You have no idea what my motives are.
I know how easy it was to find the answer and not continue the rumor. Do I believe he was poaching? Not enough info to tell. Apparently there were no dead critters in his possession... that could be proof in my book. Maybe he had shot something before dark and was just trying to locate it. I have no way of knowing and don't really care.
I don't carry loaded weapons in my vehicles, ever... but I do carry a spotlight! Does that make me a poacher?
Nikonut ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Edit: Shaw has answered some of these questions... we were posting at the same time! Sad situation for Jason.
[ June 04, 2011, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Nikonut ]
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Okanagan
Budding Spin Doctor
Member # 870
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posted June 04, 2011 02:54 PM
...having a spotlight and a weapon in a vehicle means you are out scouting? I doubt it. If you have a spotlight and a loaded weapon close at hand you are up to no good, IMO.
I react to that assumption of guilt by Smithers, quoted above. That kind of assumption is one of the major problems wrong with law and law enforcement and it keeps getting worse.
Nail the perp if he is guilty of breaking law, such as poaching, but donèt make up silly laws attributing guilt to his potential to poach or his possession of legal items. If you are a cop, do your work and prove guilt instead of the lazy way out to say anyone who owns a spoon is guilty of heroin use. Yes, some crimnals will get off. That is deliberately the side of error that the US Constitution and the majority of people prefer.
Two weeks ago I was hunting bear and had a spotlight in my vehicle because I always do. I use it once in awhile for repair, checking a bad turnoff headlights donèt show and sometimes around camp. I would like to look at animals but am wary of assumers such as Smithers. About 400 yards from camp, rolling home to the tent in deep dusk, a herd of elk with a bull in velvet trotted down the road ahead of us and went off into a creek bottom. I pulled out the light to look at him a little more, and decided some idiot might convict me of poaching because of the light AND a rifle in the vehicle. Shooting that elk was the last thing on my mind. (added: rifle was not loaded but ammo was handy in my cup holder as was a loaded detachable magazine).
Sorry: possession of legal items does not constitute guilt by itself. If anyone thinks that kind of combination of possessions and or actions should be illegal in themselves, we will disagree, but without much respect from this side.
Bad laws and bad enforcement erode respect for all law, and that is exactly what we are seeing expressed in frustration by law abiding men on this forum.
edit: a second anecdote deleted as distracting from point already made.
[ June 04, 2011, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
Posts: 269 | From: 49th Parrallel | Registered: Jun 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 03:20 PM
They have laws to keep people honest. If I see someone lighting illegally, which it is at certain times of year in MI, I will call the sheriff.
If it's a situation like Jason seems to have been caught up in then it's a misunderstanding and unfortunate but still illegal. The law seems to be muddled in VA and that is part of the problem.
Okanagan, I am not a person to jump the gun when it comes to calling the authorities on someone but I won't hesitate if I KNOW they are doing something that is not legal. Ethics plays a BIG part in the way I hunt and would hope it is the same for all hunters but, unfortunately, it's not a priority on some people's list. And those are the ones that the laws are written for.
edited to add...
Nikonut: quote:
Something of that magnitude should be varified before being posted to the web...
It was already posted elsewhere on the web, that's how I got the info. I'm not the first to post it so don't roll eyes at me... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And VERIFIED is spelled like this... NOT WITH AN A! Ha ha! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ June 04, 2011, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: smithers ]
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DanS
Scorched Earth (AZ Sector)
Member # 316
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posted June 04, 2011 03:31 PM
I don't know how many times I have used my boat to get to an island or other ground to legally hunt, and I usually have a spotlight in my boat and sometimes my truck, and of course firearms if intending to hunt..
We are not allowed to spotlight deer in MO even if you have no firearms, I think it is called animal harassment. Many hunters would go out and night and scout for big deer. I am pretty sure landowners can go look for cattle and such.
[ June 04, 2011, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
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futuaris nisi irrisus ridebis
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni:
Often Tested, Always Faithful. Brothers Forever!
Posts: 1482 | From: flyover country | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 04, 2011 03:43 PM
In Kansas, it is illegal to use a spotlight while in possession of a firearm of any kind, loaded or otherwise. Pretty clean cut. Now, what happens if a rancher is out doing calf check and he's shining for cows or looking to see what he thought might be a coyote strafing his herd? Should he get written up? How about having a gun in the rack or behind the seat and you and a buddy decide to go out and scout for deer across the alfalfa fields and you get pulled over? In one instance, you're not hunting, or you're protecting your property. In the other, you have no intention of hunting or shooting anything - just looking. With the way our law is written, the Natural Resource Officer (NRO) or other LEO is well within his authority to write you a ticket and charge you, but should he? Give a badge and a sidearm to someone who lacks common sense and good judgment and you're asking for problems. An LEO needs to consider the totality of the circumstances in any given situation and decide if there was intent, what the subject intended to do, and how best to handle the situation to achieve the desired results. Heavy handedness and by the proverbial book isn't always the most effective long-term solution, especially in a local situation where you may know of the person's character and will be contacting them again on a regular basis. I've seen many instances where an officer gave a warning and often reminded the subject that he didn't write him up, but that he could have, and that he will, if ever given good reason. A smart boy knows when he got lucky and knows just as well how to make sure he doesn't piss his own luck away down the road.
I don't know the gentleman in question, but Shaw's a friend of mine and I know his judgment of others. If he says the guy's a good man, that's good enough for me. Sometimes, people find themselves in the shit and don't have any choice but to man up and take the hit.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Paul Melching
Radical Operator Forum "You won't get past the front gate"
Member # 885
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posted June 04, 2011 03:49 PM
I don't know the gentleman in question, but Shaw's a friend of mine and I know his judgment of others. If he says the guy's a good man, that's good enough for me. Sometimes, people find themselves in the shit and don't have any choice but to man up and take the hit.
+1
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Those who value security over liberty soon will have neither !
Posts: 4188 | From: The forest ! north of the dez. | Registered: Jul 2006
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Okanagan
Budding Spin Doctor
Member # 870
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posted June 04, 2011 03:57 PM
Smithers, thanks for your gracious reply. I was reacting in my post!
I have no problem with items in possession ect. raising suspicion. That is common sense. But suspicion is different from guilt. Dan may get checked out in his boat: he should not be convicted of poaching because he has common equipment like a spotlight on board, even if it could be used in poaching.
I phoned a game warden about spotlighting during a deer and elk season. We saw a spotlight sweeping the mountainside from a road above our camp, heard one shot up there and then 20 minutes of lights scurrying around where the shot came from. Maybe they were changing a tire they blew! But I phoned the warden to let him find out what they were doing (though he never even checked).
If they did not have a fresh-dead critter, I say let them go. Having a spotlight etc. in a hunting vehicle should not constitute guilt, and if that is against the law, it is a bad law which will hassle far more law abiding people than it hampers poachers.
My aggravation is that we keep proliferating bad laws that make routine normal parts of life illegal, instead of focussing on those who do damage. Declaring legal possessions illegal (such as gun laws) and legal actions illegal makes it easier for police to get convictions but does nothing for publics safety, game protection nor any other good. It just hassles ordinary people doing ordinary things.
Did you know it is illegal to possess an eagle feather, even the shed one my grandson picked up on the beachÉ Stupid law. In WA State it was illegal to pick up a shed antler. Donèt know if that law is still on the books but it is a stupid law. (My computer keyboard goes wonky and does this È in place of some punctuation marks sometimesÈ)
added re Jason: Ditto to Paul Melching.
[ June 04, 2011, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Okanagan ]
Posts: 269 | From: 49th Parrallel | Registered: Jun 2006
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Possumal
HONORARY CALLS FORUM MODERATOR edit: AND TOKEN LIBERAL
Member # 823
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posted June 04, 2011 04:14 PM
In Kentucky, the only hunting with a light that is legal is hunting bullfrogs or raccoons during the season. No predator hunting with lights is allowed, period. At the present time, a farmer can't even get a special permit for a coyote hunter to hunt on his place. As far as I know, there are no restrictions concerning a farmer using a spotlight on his own property.
Perhaps Semp knows more details about this and can post a comment.
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Al Prather
Foxpro Field Staff
Posts: 781 | From: Nicholasville, Ky. | Registered: Mar 2006
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csmithers
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 04:21 PM
I would hope if I was ever caught in a situation that called into question the legality of something I was doing the DNR or sheriff would use discretion as well. That's a no-brainer.
I've been stopped numerous times while hunting at night and never had anything but praise for the DNR and sheriff for doing their job. One time I had to tell an officer that HE needed to look at the law because I was doing nothing unlawful.
There is a big difference between rowing a boat and having a spotlight in your possession and shining a field. We could all come up with ridiculous scenarios, but none of the scenarios written would likely get you a ticket. Unless, that particular authority had an axe to grind or had sand in their mangina at the time.
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George Ackley
Knows what it's all about
Member # 898
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posted June 04, 2011 04:21 PM
I have the answer and it simple!
Jason don't need to explain anything to anyone.
[ June 04, 2011, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: George Ackley ]
Posts: 465 | From: PHILA . PA | Registered: Jul 2006
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fgf4
unknown comic
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posted June 04, 2011 04:47 PM
quote:
And VERIFIED is spelled like this... NOT WITH AN A! Ha ha!
Please don't tell Dan!
Poaching laws are reactionary and aren't there to keep people,"Honest". Laws like this are made to appease liberal dumbshits that think all hunting is bad. I can't even carry a spotlight with a plugin on my atv... how ignorant is that? I can however carry a handheld 15million candlepower unit, but if I use it while sitting on the atv all of my equipment could be confiscated... again, stupid laws.
You hunt with NightVision but it's not OK to have a spotlight... interesting way of thinking.
Nikonut
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