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Author
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Topic: O.A.L cases
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 13, 2026 02:16 PM
Thought I touch on this subject a little.
Ok we have some guys that trim cases every time they reload it to keep it to safe specs and uniform. Some maybe just wait till it reaches max according to reloading manual. And then some guys never trim their brass and just keep reloading it.
Ok for example a manual says 1.902- 1.912 for max. length in a 22-250 case. But it doesn't say how far you can go past that or what the limit is so you just don't know. Like for example say the case O.A.L is at 1.910 can a guy get by without trimming one more time or should it be trimmed???
How much is the safety buffer??
Well, if you don't measure your chambers then you just don't know the answer and you can ask 3 different well-known Gunsmith's and get 3 different answers. One gunsmith will say don't worry about it the case will never grow that far to be a problem; next gunsmith says well it depends on how the chamber was cut and by who and how he goes about it. And then you have factory rifles that go by a spec. but they can even make a mistake, and it can slip out the door without no one really knowing. But what is the spec. for aver-all length?
Example a friend bought a factory rem. chambered in 243 win., the inside of chamber was oval shaped and after firing the rifle the fired case came out of chamber with same oval shape. so anyway, mistakes happen.
So Question is do any of you guys know what your max. O.A.L is for your chamber???
[ March 13, 2026, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 13, 2026 02:19 PM
One more thing to touch on is outside neck dia..
How many of you guys measure your necks outside dia.????
If so do you measure a fired case or do you seat a bullet, then measure it??
[ March 13, 2026, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 13, 2026 05:39 PM
Depends on if you need to resize. But you are correct to some extent. If anybody is seriously resizing their brass, it won’t last very long. Some people partial full length resize. Some just neck size. It depends. You will find out if you have been doing things wrong. I know a guy that shoots the 220Swift. He claims that he never gets more than 2 reloads. Something is wrong with his technique? How many shooters know their chamber pressure? You can tell a lot by mic-ing your cases. I bought a rifle at a gun show once. That rifle must have had a seriously over pressure load at one time. Every round I fired in that gun came out with a slight bulge in the case body on one side. I rebarreled. It was a Parker Hale Mauser, shoots fine now.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS cured me from buying guns at the gun show!
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Don't piss me off!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 13, 2026 07:03 PM
Well I'll touch on neck dia. first. Take a 22-250 for example. Back when I first started killing fox and coyotes I started with a 22-250 788. About third firing you needed to trim up the necks. I never kept track of how many times in reloaded the brass, but it was a lot.
One day I had brass just sitting in shell holder with mouth of case facing up and I had a new bullet in my hand so I checked to see if the bullet would just drop down inside the case as it should. Haaa I could even get the bullet to start by hand so grabbed another case and tried. Oh I had to force it with my fingers but got the bullet to seat but then I could not pull it out so had to use a bullet puller.
Well I thought my brass was getting to brittle and not expanding enough or was just springing back.
So I got my calipers and measured the neck thickness, sure enough the brass had flowed up into the necks causing them to thicken.
I then seated a few bullets in resized cases and measured the outside dia., sure enough I had thick necks and always wondered why bolt was just a tad stiff when chambering a round.
At time I didn't have the tools to fix this issue so I just tossed the brass.
Later on, I ordered a neck-turning tool. I tried inside reamer but that did not work well, it had to be turned from outside.
It seems to be a problem with some cases that normally grow allot or have a lot of brass flow the 22-250 was just one of them.
The brass has to flow out somewhere if not out to end of case then its staying in the neck walls.
It pays to check them after more than five firings.
anything fired in a AR will have considerable brass flow and will need to trim almost every time you reload it.
[ March 13, 2026, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 13, 2026 08:37 PM
Wildcatting is about making a cartridge better/improving it or to come up with a cartridge replacement due to parent case no longer made.
In my case I was on a journey to improve my 17 Pred. which is a wildcat to begin with. One issue was major carbon build up, next was to short of a neck to allow me to seat bullet out farther if I started to get little throat wear. and IMO there wasn't enough brass holding the bullet firm and keep tension uniform.
The 17 Predator is based off the 223 case necked down to 17 cal with improved shoulder and case blown out a little and will move a 30 gr. Gold along at 4000 fps. with dime accuracy.
I kind of laid the gun off to the side over last few years and then put it on bench and work on getting more carbon out. and then put it away again. Smaller the caliber in centerfire case more of a chance of carbon build up. I tried almost every carbon cleaning solvent on market, and they won't work if you don't use a bronze brush with it.
Well, I finally got the carbon out and loaded 20 rounds to be sure. The rifle was grouping like it did when I first got it. Great!!
So on to next project a better case! Well, I just so happen to have some 204-brass sitting around which was perfect for the job. I waxed a few cases up and ran them through my sizing die and first off I noticed I had no false shoulder on neck like when I used the 223 brass. With 223 case you need that false shoulder for fireforming.
With 204 brass you just pushed shoulder down to where you needed it for firm chambering and then loaded it and fireformed it.
When I sized the 204 brass down I had a neck that was .045 longer, great! I had plenty of extra neck to work with but big question is what's the spec for my chamber and how long can over all case be??
I asked 3 different gunsmith that chambered this round before and got 3 different answers but also keep in mind they stayed with the 223 case.
One smith said just cut neck back to what my other original cases are, sure but that just defeats purpose of what I'm trying to change. No one could really give me a answer to O.A.L for that chambering and be on safe side.
My friend Stan is no longer around but his best friend Al N. is still around so I got in touch with Al in private messaging.
Al had the answer right off the bat. Chamber length gauge/button!!! aah it was sort of coming back to me know I remembered seeing those gauges years ago in a reloading supply catalog and never gave them a second thought.
I put an order into Brownell's and had gauges in my hands with-in two days.
Al mentioned if button is too big for my chamber, then I would have to put it in a drill and sand it down to size i needed. I got lucky here as my neck is .196 and button measured .195, perfect.
I took a resized case and had to turn neck back 1.000 but due to my neck being too short to do that I just got it close as I could then got gauge started in case mouth then chambered it and tried close the bolt. Nope! too long yet so took case back out and remove the gauge and turned case mouth down just little more. Got gauge started and then chambered the round and the bolt closed this time with no force. Perfect!!
Next step i measured the case over all-length with the gauge still in place. My max. O.A.L. case length is 1.785.
My max. trim length will be at 1.775 and trim to 1.765. The 223 brass had a length of 1.740 trim length. So now with 204 brass I have a extra .025-.035 of extra neck to work with. In the 17 Pred. that's a improvement.
Now I gained better neck tension, better alignment for seating bullet, little longer neck to seat bullets out farther if I need to and also a smaller area for the carbon to build up in. and no more false shoulders for fireforming.
My thanks to Al N.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 14, 2026 10:01 PM
Here are some numbers from a friend who is part time gun smith and a BR. shooter with many titles.
quote:
Factory chambers:
-25-06 max length shows 2.494". Actual chamber measures 2.525". Difference of .031"
-30-06 max length shows 2.494". Actual chamber measures 2.512". Difference of .018"
-338WM max length shows 2.500". Actual chamber measures 2.533". Difference of .033"
So how about some chambers with custom reamers? Surely they have to be right on the specs....right?
-17-223 reamer print shows 1.770". Actual chamber measures 1.775" or .005" longer than the print. Think that might cause you some gas if not caught?
-30BR reamer print shows 1.520". Actual chamber length measures 1.520"
-6PPC real-deal BR chamber. Print shows 1.510". Actual chamber measures 1.530"
quote:
Here's the Queen Bee Mother of factory chambers that I've checked. My pal Tom has a pre '64 Model 70 in 270 that was giving him all sorts of over pressure indicators...flat primers and a heavy bolt lift with mild loads. I stuck the Hawkeye in there and it was hard to tell when the neck ended and the throat began. After removing all traces of the hard carbon (long process), I checked the chamber length. SAMMI length is 2.540". It measures 2.592"! shocked That extra .052" had been a trap for carbon for decades! The build up eventually caused high pressure signs. After clearing the build up and some new brass, it shot well...or at least as well as it should have.
Good shootin' smile -Al
[ March 14, 2026, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted March 15, 2026 01:31 AM
Ok ............. Question from a 'Yank the trigger / Rifle makes a loud noise' guy.
If you trim the cases several times because the brass 'flows', isn't the inside dimensions & case capacity increasing a wee bit each time ???? Adds up after a while ??? It wouldn't be much but when you guys are talking thousandths or ten thousandths of an inch and weights in grains .............???? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 15, 2026 05:07 AM
Koko when brass flows in a case it comes from base of case called web area, let's just say up about 1/2 inch from rim of case. It continues to flow up to end of case mouth and this is what is trimmed. Some cases the brass flows more than others like a 22-250 for example. How much can't really say as I don't keep track i just trim them if needed.
If you inspect the web area and run a finger nail up and down sometimes you will feel where a separation is going to start. Another way is take a paper clip and straighten it out then bend slight hook at one end and file a point to it. run the wired down inside the case to the web area and you will feel where the brass is starting to separate.
over time if you reload the cases and don't catch it one day when you go to extract a fired case you will pull off the case-head and rest stays inside the chamber. For a 22-250 you need a short cleaning rod, and a 30 cal. bore brush and shove it up inside the remaining stuck case and then it should pull out with the brush. Easy fix.
Now here is the kicker with Ackley brass. by changing shoulder to say 40 degrees you can slow down or reduce the amount of brass flow to end of the case mouth, but the brass still will flow up to the shoulder and then stop. and over time you will get a separation in the web area or just below the shoulder thus leaving the shoulder of case and the neck stuck inside your chamber.
I've had it happen both ways in a 22-250 ackley and there nothing you can do about it other than toss brass before it happens. Not end of the world but it could ruin a hunt if you don't have spare rifle along. I know what to watch for so it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen at some point in time you can bank on it.
If you are loading mild loads or a little less than max, you gain a little more time and few more reloads from a case but sooner or later it will happen.
22-250 also likes to build up excess brass in the neck walls thus making the necks thicker and over time can start to pinch the bullet and create more pressure. I have had this happen back in day when I just had one rifle and limited on cases and reloaded it too many times. I usually try not to go past 5-12 reloading's with a case but also keep in mind I don't baby my loads, if manual says 38.0 gr. of powder is safe max load, then that's what I use. If a guy gets 20 reloads from a case great, I'm happy for them.
I still have my separated brass in a box in reloading room. You look closely where it separated you can see how it was worn away over time and has little taper along its edges.
Cases fired in a semi-auto grow pretty bad and almost need be trimmed every reloading unless you know what the exact specs are for your chamber you can maybe get two more reloads before you trim. Most people don't know what the specs are other than a chamber print and that is not always accurate as you can see from a earlier post with actual numbers.
Ackley cases are not perfect!
Brass flows like the weight on a woman you never know where she is going to get fat or thin just does. or in some case a skinny woman just stays skinny. LOL
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Kokopelli
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posted March 15, 2026 07:06 AM
Interesting ........... and as some of us in archery are known to say; "Anything worth doing is worth OVER doing".
I was thinking along the lines that if the inside dimensions of the case change over time / reloads, then the best load for a new case might not still be exactly right for an older one.
Ok .......... Winds not blowing; Time to fling some arrows.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 15, 2026 07:25 AM
quote:
I was thinking along the lines that if the inside dimensions of the case change over time / reloads, then the best load for a new case might not still be exactly right for an older one.
The change is so vary small and nothing to worry about. In larger cases like say a 22-250 when you add powder according to load manual that says 38.0 gr. you can sprinkle .1-.3 gr. more and won't make much of a difference either way. But when you reload for smaller cases then that little extra will make a world of difference and show increase in pressure. Like some guys worry about not loading to high so they back off on a load a little and you won't see much difference but depends on how much as well. some powder burn rates you have to watch they can be a little spiky on you or erratic. small deviation/S.D. numbers is what you want and should prove to be most accurate load for that combination.
We are in a snow storm right now 30-40 mph winds, had to drive out to farm and feed dogs early before weather got worse.
Cartridges is like shooting arrows, no wind or very little then shooting faster lighter arrow, more wind or longer distance then a heavier shaft or broad head.
[ March 15, 2026, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted March 15, 2026 09:11 AM
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I have 16 recurve bows and 12 of them @60# all shoot the same arrow. A 29" retro 2213 w/3-5" shield cut fletch, max helical. 190 grains up front, point & insert. Makes it easy to compare bows of equal weight but different brands and I don't need different arrows for different bows.
Simple is good ....... Therefore extremely simple is extremely good.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 15, 2026 09:37 AM
I’m just not in the mood to parse our resident Guru. I get bored but do not think his theories are totally uncontested.
Just on the limited subject of long term rifle brass. I have experience with 270 Winchester, 6mmRem and 22-250 Ackley. Those are the cartridges that I have fired many times and recycled the brass. The 22-250Ackley case is a lot more durable than the others. I don’t lose brass because of “wear and tear” mainly, you lose them in the field. If I start with 200, 25’06AI in 2 0r 3 seasons I might have 180 left for various reasons and not because of imperfections. or damaged cases. So, 200 cases will generally outlast a barrel.
With 270, that’s been a long time ago, but I used that gun exclusively for many seasons. Reasons for attrition were degraded cases, one reason or another. But for every cycle there would be trimming the necks to length, discarding cases due to split necks and enlarged primer pockets, which you would not notice until attempting to seat another primer. If it’s too easy, you have to toss them, including a wasted primer. So brass just wears out, in several reasons. This doesn’t happen with Ackley cases. Additionally, because I do not load to excessive pressure. The easiest way to observe high pressure is carefully examining the spent primer. Flattered primers and cratered firing pin indents are the usual pressures befor mic’ing the case web.
I just never load my 6mm HOT. If I did, I might get similar to 270 problems. But I do not load hot. That helps to baby your brass to last many years. I don’t believe in brass aging. Taken care of, it should last 20 years. I vibratory clean all my brass, carefully inspect cases. Clean primer pockets, uniform primer pockets. Trim to length when necessary. I take care of my brass, kinda anal, maybe? But, it survives when taken care of.
That’s all I got to say. As far as what Tim writes, I tried to stay involved as much as possible but he’s hard to read. As is some of us can be. Guilty as charged. I can ramble, at times.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 15, 2026 09:55 AM
ko ko, with that many bows, do you tend to use 3 favorites, or what? 16 recurves and 12 are 60 lb? Are there a few you could afford to part with? I’m not understanding?
Of course, now I am reminded of my wife, dearly departed. She would ask, very innocently: Why do you need another gun? Hard to logically justify. It’s like, shotguns for quail and shotguns for ducks, shotguns for coyotes, shotguns for skeet, etc.
Then, rifles for deer hunting, rifles for ground squirrels, rifles for coyotes, day time, rifles for night time, etc. It just goes on and on.
You can’t convince a wife that you need 16 recurves. If you’ve managed, please tell us how it’s done. Inquiring minds would like to know! That’s valuable knowledge, please share it!
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted March 15, 2026 11:05 AM
Right now, subject to change, my 'Go To' bow is a Damon Howatt Super Diablo. Good classic solid performer. I have two of them, both set up identically.
Others are classics that found their way onto my bow rack. A Bear Super Kodiak, A Bear 48 Magnum, a Groves Spitfire & a couple of really cool Pearson Mercury Hunters. Somehow, I'm a friggin' bow magnet.
As far as the collection goes, my wife & I have an agreement; What she doesn't know won't hurt me. In fact, that agreement is one of the things that she doesn't know about.
That & the bow rack's out in the shop.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 15, 2026 03:59 PM
Load 200-300 case for year or need, that's what I call long term ammo and yes, it will take longer to wear out.
I usually start with just 50 cases and just one season would have reloaded that 5-6 times or more.
If I'm getting low on reloads and have a hunting trip planned, I then reload what's been fired so far so I have a fresh full box. I take a felt tip magic marker and put mark on ammo that is the oldest in box and that gets used first and if a issue arrives I know where to look.
I did prep a box of 100 221 F.B. brass and also have a box of 50 and never got the 100 rounds reloaded just kept using box of 50.
So yeah, I can see how some people brass last for so long.
Lost cases yes I also get a few so what I do is when I reload a box of 50 or 100 is I set aside an extra 5-10 rounds that was prepped at same time, same brass so then I have a matching replacement on hand. so a ammo box is always full.
Back in day when first started hunting fox with 22-250 i had only one or two 20 round boxes of ammo and always reloading it when needed. It doesn't last long when you do it that way and also when I stumbled upon thick necks in the brass..
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
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posted March 15, 2026 04:10 PM
I used and still have my Onieda screaming eagle bow, I just had one bow and used it to allow me to hunt deer if I missed the slug gun season or muzzle-loader season, basically to just fill a void.
I usually carried arrows of two different weights or same arrows but two different weights for broad heads. Calm days and not so calm days I had both covered I used the rocky mountain broad-heads or the Wasp's. Rocky mountain broad heads you can touch up the blades to keep sharp and the wasps you could buy extra insert blades. The deer didn't like either one. Been a long time since I hunted with my bow....
My wife mentioned too many guns one time or I was always off hunting in winter. I wouldn't say much till I got a fur check and then show it to her. Her eyes would light up when she saw it. And me being such nice husband I even handed one to her to do what she wished. She never bothered me about it since.
[ March 15, 2026, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
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posted March 15, 2026 05:51 PM
At one time, my wife & I both had Onieda Screaming Eagles. She loved hers & killed a buck with it in Utah. I could never get mine to perform and went to a Pro Line designed by Joe Caldwell.
I used Wasp four blades for years with my compound bows but went to a cut on contact Zwickey with the recurves.
As far as arrow weights go my only concern beyond matching within 5 grains (+/- 2.5) is that field points, broadheads & blunts all group together back to 60 yards. Since some broadhead designs can give a bit of 'lift' and some blunts have air resistance from Hell, it can take some finesse with components.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
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posted March 16, 2026 12:36 AM
Yeah, I remember going through all that trying to match field points to broad heads and then shooting it in my basement through newspaper to get it all tuned in. I carried 1 or 2 target arrows along and when I got set up in my ground blind, I would pick a spot to shoot at with target arrow to check my range and windage and then go pick up the arrow after I was done hunting for evening.
I never used a tree-stand when I bow hunted, to restrictive. I used a ground blind or hunt & stalk method. It was fun putting the sneak on a deer wearing snow camo..
Back in the day I learned to shoot with a Bear left-handed bow. I can shoot either way but prefer right handed.
[ March 16, 2026, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
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posted March 16, 2026 03:21 AM
Instead of carrying target arrows in my bow quiver, I have a couple of Judo blunts for roving and an occasional rabbit. It's rare that I don't take a practice shot at something at the end of a calling stand if nothing comes in.
On the walk back to the truck, any practice shot that can be done safely with a likelihood of finding my arrow is fair game. Nothing quite like watching an arrow lob out and come close to an off colored bush or cow paddy about a 100 yards away. Builds confidence for the 30 yard shots that count.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2026 03:33 AM
Im pretty much one game hunter. If after a deer that's my target even if fox or coyote shows up. not going to let them ruin my hunt so just let them pass by. I don't eat rabbits either, so they get a pass as well.
At night when out calling I see coon all the time on way to or from stand and on to next I just give them little wave and drive by. I have also had Jackrabbits come into a stand as well as skunks and opossum and a few deer, I just leave them be. I take Nephew along at times though and he will shoot a coon or something as he is happy just getting to shoot something. LOL I will chew his ass though if I have a coyote in area and he pulls that crap.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
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posted March 16, 2026 05:51 AM
Gotta admit, ..... I've never called in a opossum.
"I don't eat rabbits ....... "
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2026 09:58 AM
quote:
Gotta admit, ..... I've never called in a opossum.
"I don't eat rabbits ....... " [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]
I think you need to have a WT for that Koko. The caller seems to call in all sorts of critters.
Opossum, skunks, Canada geese, pheasants, wild mustangs, cattle, deer, owls, coon, wolves, red fox, coyotes.
As for eating Rabbits I leave that to Irish and Germans..
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
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posted March 16, 2026 12:50 PM
Try having a herd of wild burros come in hot.
Major pucker factor !!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8772 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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TA17Rem
Hello, I'm the legendary Tim Anderson, Southern Minneesota Know it all
Member # 794
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posted March 16, 2026 01:28 PM
I'm sure.
How about a skunk that decides it wants to empty its scent sack.
Had one come in so I yelled at it so it would go away. which worked but it ran under my pickup and then emptied out right there. It wasn't all bad as my pickup had cover scent for rest of the night.
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What if I told you, the left wing and right wing both belong to same bird!
Posts: 6067 | From: S.D. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 16, 2026 03:39 PM
When skunk REALLY let loose, it can make a well person physically ill. My Redbone HAD to go in the attached garage one night. She tore into a skunk and the smell was so noxious, both me and the wife were sick as a dog. The dog, however was very proud of her efforts to rid the neighborhood of cute little black kittens with a white stripe. WE had to stay out front out of the wind direction and we had every door and window open for several hours. Both kids were upstairs, never woke up and slept through the whole event, although neither of us could believe they never woke up, slept through the whole thing. Until Red went upstairs that morning and they chased her back downstairs. If you have heard that washing a dog with tomato juice will kill the smell, it did not work for two days! But Red seemed to like the smell. Go figure?
Actually, I’ve always like a distinct skunk odor in the night air. I don’t find it unpleasant at all. This was different when the thing cut loose in my garage, It made both of us quite sick, noxious! Too strong of a concentration! But Red was extremely proud of her self, defending the old homestead. She got all pumped up.
Good hunting. El Bee🐝
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 33153 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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