This is topic .17-204 AI in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://www.huntmastersbbs.com/cgi-bin/cgi-ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000504
Posted by 92soggy (Member # 4362) on January 30, 2014, 07:56 PM:
Has anyone done one? Would there be much benefit besides improved brass?
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 31, 2014, 04:15 AM:
Wouldn't bother to AI it. For a lot of reasons.
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 31, 2014, 06:19 AM:
A couple Utah buddies of mine ran a .17Predator reamer down deeper into the chamber to utilize the longer .204 case. The original .17P is built around a .223 case. The idea was spawned over a mistake, and the result is what I'd consider a .17/204 "Improved". Not Ackley-fied, though...
They eventually named this case, the .17WCH (western coyote hunter). It still retains the 30° shoulder of the parent .204 case, thanks to the .17P's identical shoulder angle. But the by-product of running a .17P reamer down to work with a .204 is a couple thou. wider shoulder, and slightly shorter neck over the parent case. Those two factors net an increase in case capacity over the straight necking down to 17/204.
But again, the shoulder is not "Ackley-ed" to 40°...
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 31, 2014, 10:18 AM:
Curious as to why Dave wouldn't AI it.
KJ AI'd the 204 and got a pretty good gain.
Me, I'd AI everything and will.
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 31, 2014, 10:57 AM:
Well, for one, a 30* shoulder is just fine. Yeah, a 40* can be better. But it can also be a potential source for finicky feeding, sometimes.
But the "AI" deal isn't just increasing shoulder angle. It's also reducing body taper. The .204 already has minimal body taper.
It's not like you should ever have to trim them with the 30*, either.
I just don't see where there is going to be much gained there.
But, aside from that...
One of the attractive attributes of the .17-204, to me, is just how stupid easy it is. No custom or semi custom dies. No fireforming. Just buy some decent .204R bushing dies off the shelf, add the right sized bushing, maybe polish down the decapping pin keeper, neck 'em down and go. You can seat the .17's with the unaltered .204R die, no problemo.
With the AI version, you're into expensive die country. Unless you never intend to FL size.
Then, there's the performance angle. The specific performance angle. Specific performance in this instance, I'm guessing, being shooting 30 gr. bullets at coyotes. My experience, and keeping my ears open to the experiences of others, most 30 gr. bullets are going to start showing some erratic terminal ballistics when pushed beyond about 4200 fps.
So, to me, in this instance, the gains to be had might not even be gains? Depending how you look at it?
Fred mentioned the WCH. I'm not criticizing, at all. Whatever floats a fellas boat is fine by me. And for that matter, some projects you just have to try and see and sometimes things just don't go quite as smooth as planned. But, anyway, I've talked to Kerry and JR about their WCH's, and to me, they aren't a success. Both of them found they couldn't use full throttle loads without poofs in only a couple hundred rounds. Then found erratic terminal performance still, at the velocity they can get to.
Just one mans opinion, subject to change without warning, but to me, if the object is .17 caliber, 30 gr. bullets, for coyote, there actually can be too much of a good thing.
To summarize, I think the plain .17-204 is a lot easier, cheaper and likely to kill coyotes every bit as well.
It will lose in the velocity department. A department I dearly hate to lose in. But, those 30's do seem to have a sweet spot and the .204 case, when enlarged, has the potential to go beyond that sweet spot.
So many variables though. Not for me to try and predict what is going to happen with any project. Not even my own.
And anyone that just feels like doing it, I say more power to them.
This is just one, that I, wouldn't...
- DAA
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on January 31, 2014, 11:28 AM:
Yep, if I recall correctly, Kerry & JR were trying to 'clean up' a .17Rem barrel by chambering it into a .17Predator. They found that they had to go deeper than previously thought, so just figured to swag it and set headspace with a .204 parent case, as opposed to the shorter .223 case.
Kerry wound up getting over 4500fps with the 30Golds! But, that was just too much for the little bullet to take after a short while and he backed down into the <4300 range, if I remember right...
Hunted with JR & Kerry in Nevada, and JR hit a 40yd coyote with his WCH...looked like you tomahawked a can of Smuckers Raspberry on the ribs. Wicked surface splash!
So, like Dave eluded to, sometimes too much of a good thing, proves to not be a such a good thing. Still pretty crazy to get those numbers, though!
My Predator is cruising in traffic @ 4075-80, last I checked...pedestrian speed in the world of the .17/204. Just finishing up on the 4th loading of my original 100pc. of Lapua brass. Bushing neck sizing each time, haven't had to bump a shoulder, or trim yet...
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2014, 12:15 PM:
I think like Dave, although I appreciate Tom's attitude about Ackleying everything. But, if trimming is not necessary in a 30 deg shoulder, and you can't find a bullet to handle the velocity any way? Well, like he says, some dies are more spendy than others.
Does anybody make a copper slug that will seal in a seventeen bore? But, would hydrostatic shock blow the shit out of a coyote at that speed, or no?
However, the main reason why I stuck my nose into a 17 thread is: who the hell is, "JR & Kerry"? And what are they doing taking a Yankee into my hunting areas?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ January 31, 2014, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 31, 2014, 02:49 PM:
I shot alot of the 30 grain golds when I first got my 17 Tactical and they did very well at around 3950 fps. They killed coyotes very well out past 300 yards, but I got a little more fur damage than I liked so I went back to the 25 grain Berger match and am running them about 4100 fps and I have been very pleased at there performance. I feel very confident with this combo on coyotes to almost 300 yards and fur damage is usually non existent.
So for what they are used for (coyote fur harvesting)I really think optimal speed for the hot 17's is in the 4000-4200 with 25-30 grain bullets any more and I think you will get inconsistent results.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 31, 2014, 03:25 PM:
Well you've heard about the old bull and the young bull...
Thanks Dave for putting things into perspective.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on January 31, 2014, 03:48 PM:
I like running both bullets the 25gr and the 30 around 4000. But I rare shoot past 200-300 yards.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 31, 2014, 05:38 PM:
I got a cigar box of 17-204 brass that needs trimmed.....I hate to trim. If I had it to do again it would be a 17-204AI just for that.
Not so much for the added MV.
So far I guess I have been lucky on the feeding issues. The 243AI's, 204AI and now the 22-243AI feed without issue.
edit to change shit pot load to cigar box to be more accurate.
[ January 31, 2014, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: Kelly Jackson ]
Posted by Dave Allen (Member # 3102) on January 31, 2014, 05:57 PM:
So, curious are you guys good with the Kindler Golds ? I know Nagels were the bomb for awhile.
It doesn't appear, from what I've read the Berger match isn't really an option anymore ?
[ January 31, 2014, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: Dave Allen ]
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 31, 2014, 05:59 PM:
Kelly, just out of curiosity, are you sure it actually needs to be trimmed. And if does, do you FL size?
I can honestly say, I have not had any of my brass actually NEED trimming in a long, long time. Like... 20 years? And even then, had I known what I later learned, I bet even that stuff didn't actually need it.
The day I started measuring my chamber lengths, was the day my trimmer got retired.
Granted, tapered cases are going to grow. And if they get FL sized every time, they might even grow enough to actually need trimming.
And I don't use any machine guns. I'm talking bolt rifles only here.
But neck sizing, only bumping when needed, I shit you not, I have NEVER had brass get close enough to actual chamber length to be worth caring about.
Hell, just the opposite, for me. Once I realized just how long my chambers actually are, I want that brass to GROW! Just knowing that gap is there between the end of the case neck and that mean little shoulder where the chamber neck ends and thinking about my bullets trying to get past there without compromising the jacket. Makes me want to close that gap...
If they need trimmed they need it though.
- DAA
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 31, 2014, 06:17 PM:
Dave - I will check. Have the tools, just never took the time to check the chamber length on that 17-204.
On the 17-204 and 204AI neck size only.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 31, 2014, 06:25 PM:
I think i have around 150 of the 25 grain Berger Match bullets left when those are gone I'll probably go to either the 25 grain golds I have left or the genco 26 grain rbbt bullets i have .I might just start buying the Kindler 25 grain bullet that has the smaller .050 boat tail they seem to be very close to the same bullet as the 25 grain Berger Match. I do still have a box of 30 grain golds and a box of 27 grain golds if needs be.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by DAA (Member # 11) on January 31, 2014, 07:20 PM:
Kelly, it also just occurred to me, and I really ought not be so forgetful about it, but not everyone has the same loading practices I do.
I use bushing dies, no expanders. When I do need to bump the shoulder or FL size, that's all I do and I use body dies or bump dies to do it.
And almost all my chambers are tight neck. The ones that aren't tight neck, are custom necked and throated to the brass I already had in hand.
So, my brass gets worked the absolute minimum.
Using a die with an expander, especially with a larger chamber neck, that's an area I haven't visited in so long I can't even comment.
So... Just because my necks never need trimmed, doesn't mean yours or anyone else's might not!
And I apologize if I got you off on a wild goose chase. It really is bad form for me to project my loading habits on others.
- DAA
Posted by 92soggy (Member # 4362) on January 31, 2014, 07:20 PM:
Thanks for the replies guys, DAA's post makes a lot of sense to me. Guess I will stick with the standard chambering.
On a somewhat different note, is neck turning required when using bushing dies? How much clearance does a guy want in the neck portion of the chamber?
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 31, 2014, 08:30 PM:
While I never considered my reloading practices state of the art, I did think I took great care in producing quality ammo.
Not so much anymore.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 31, 2014, 09:27 PM:
I went from a 220Swift to my first Ackley, a 25'06AI. From that point forward, I have never trimmed necks. Some are tighter than others and I use bushing dies on some, sometimes I use neck dies and even FL dies depending. My current 25'06Ackley, I bought 200 PMC 270Winchester brass because of the flash hole and the longer length. Still, when fire forming, the length will get shorter because of blowing out the body and shoulder, thereafter I have never trimmed an Ackley case, and that first 25'06 was built by P.O. Ackley himself, in the early 70's. I have had three of them, 25'06Ackleys.
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I have two 6mmRemingtons and a 243W that need a little neck trimming once in a while, a great while. I don't trim my 300WM, doesn't need it?
edit: I used a 220Swift for about 15 years. Now, that's a neck trimming bitch! So was my 270.
[ January 31, 2014, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 01, 2014, 04:04 AM:
I've had 2 25-06AI's, a 243AI and this 22-250AI, while cuzz has 2 macihine guns in 223AI and all have fed perfectly but I've read about the possibility of them being finicky.
The 25-06 I never really got to find out about and the 22-250 is too new but the 243AI I shot the piss out of and never trimmed those cases. That was a big reason I chose the 22-250AI, I'm always trimming the vanilla version. But after I finish off these 3-400 rounds I have loaded, my Remington 22-250 is going in for a new tube and it will be Ackley'd!
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 01, 2014, 07:24 AM:
Dave I always appreciate your comments. I know you have plowed these fields way before and deeper than I have for sure.
Off to the gunsmith to pick up another 22-243AI. Gonna get it started for a buddy of mine.
Yall stay after them
Kelly
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 08, 2014, 06:36 AM:
Kelly,
Did you use a 22-243AI on that Furtakers episode? What bullet and twist are you using?
I have a couple 223AI's with 1-8 twist. I was thinking of punching one out to 22-243 just for grins. But prolly won't 'cause I really like my 22-250AI, just swell.
Back on the subject of 17's, I am giving serious thought to a AR15 in 17-223. My CZ in 17-204 is the mostest bestest favorite coyote rifle for out west, and I like it best with the 30gr Nagals over the Golds. Haven't tried the 30gr Hammets yet. The AR is at another level, probably, mostly just to piss off the anti's and the AR haters, perhaps!
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 08, 2014, 07:15 AM:
That's a low blow! Me and Barry Obama, AR haters. In the same boat. What have I done? <sob>
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 08, 2014, 07:52 AM:
Sorry LB, I guess some of your generation just rubbed off on me. Just being a little Anarchistic. <chuckle>
Sadly, BO is only a few months older than me. The Pepsi generation, I think I still have that little card from the seventies too.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 09, 2014, 12:54 AM:
What DAA said earlier should be chiseled in stone. One of the biggest reasons AI's have good case life is probably due to fact that a custom reamer is normally used. Add a gunsmith instead of a factory worker cutting the chamber, who is paying attention to chamber specs & headspace instead of a time clock and you get a true custom job. DAA mentioned removing as much taper in the case as possible without causing chambering problems, BINGO! Doing so removes the back thrust of the brass during firing cycle, and almost eliminates any case stretch. Plus it allows a higher pressure load to be fired safely without over pressure signs like case partial case separation or separation. The overall concept allows us to load to higher pressures (within reason) with min case loss.
Roy Huntington from RCBS fame built his version of the 257 Roberts Improved, using a 28* shoulder while reducing case taper comparable to the Ackley 40* version. Mr Huntington claimed the same velocity's without the need to alter feed rails to get 100% positive feeding.
I have a couple of AI's with the P.O. Ackley 40* shoulder, none of my rifles required feed rail alteration on M700's, M98's, or M70's. But none the less if I build a 17-204 I will follow Dave's advice to the letter. Thank you Dave for posting.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2014, 07:32 AM:
I am a believer in custom chambers being better myself. I bought a 223AI reamer from PT&G, we just ran it into a factory barrel with a 223 chamber to improve it, and see how much the headspace would grow without doing a setback. Thought about making it longer and using 204 Ruger brass also.
Anyway we got the front sholder cleaned up but about the first .5" or so of the factory chamber was never touched by the reamer. It was a bit oversized from the factory.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 09, 2014, 12:09 PM:
My 243ai started by setting the barrel back and punching the factory barrel. My thought was I could fire form several cases then start fresh with a new tube.
I formed 250 cases then rebarrelled, they would not easily chamber even after full length sizing twice and bumping the shoulders back too much. The factory chamber had to be oversized and crooked. I threw em away and started fresh with Lapua brass.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 09, 2014, 01:20 PM:
First let me say that I am not a Gunsmith and will never pretend to be.
That said, I have and do "fiddle" with certain types of firearms, handguns are my favorite followed by bolt action Mausers, Winchester M70's & Rem 700's. Anyways back to the subject, it has been said from the beginning that when AI'ing a chamber one should ALWAYS set the barrel back at least HALF A TURN, so you will get a complete new chamber. Others have said & "I" believe it true that if possible, set the barrel back ONE FULL TURN to eliminate the possibility of a crooked chamber or a ringed chamber.
I by choice have always ordered a Floating pilot reamer & at least a Go Gauge (for a new barrel). if re chambering a existing barrel, say a 30-06 to 30-06 AI then I recommend a GO and NO GO gauge/Field Gauge SET, to guarantee a safe chamber with proper head space.
If anyone see's an error('s) in what I have written PLEASE correct me! I do not want to spread bad info to anyone who might think it simple to back yard gunsmith because Prune Picker says so.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2014, 02:25 PM:
Prune picker, I am not going to say you or anyone else is wrong. I didn't set back, because, I only planned on neck sizing, not full length, and I fireformed with the bullet into the lands or use a false shoulder when possible.
Some gunsmiths like to completely cut off the old chamber. A reamer will follow a crooked chamber.
Sometimes my gunsmith allows me to mess around with the tools/machines, lathe/ mill, and such.
The last Shilen SS barrel I got was bent or off center. Very obvious when looking down the bore when it is spinning on the lathe. Saw a Lilja do the same thing, but it was/is a shooting SOB. My Shilen is OK.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 09, 2014, 02:45 PM:
Dan - the gun I was shooting in the show is a 243AI with a 12 twist barrel shooting 55gr NBT over 4100.
I just rebarreled an action to 22-243AI with a 8 twist Brux barrel. 80gr AMAX is wicked on coyotes. Have shot about 20 in contest that last couple of weeks and I like it for that.
Last night we checked in 8 coyotes at the Canadian Tx hunt all shot with the 80gr amax. The buyer there took 4 of the 8 without docking us. Of the other 4, 2 were rubbed and the other 2 were sporting big holes. None of them took a step after being shot and thats part of what I want in a contest rig.
Don't know how long the barrel will last, but we will see.
Kelly
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2014, 04:17 PM:
I guess the 80's really help you with the wind. I still have some 75 AMAX left for my 223AI, but I don't hunt with it.
So are you liking the 22-243AI over the 243AI? I wonder what a 55 NBT out of the 22-243 would be doing? It has to have a better BC htan the 6mm version, I don't care what Nosler's website says, I don't believe the 55gr 6mm BT has a better BC than a 22 cal 55 BT.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 09, 2014, 05:15 PM:
I still got the 243AI's and don't plan on getting shed of them.
The 22-243AI does real good with the 80's in the wind. Shot it side by side with the 243AI running 87gr vmax at distance and it was enough to get my smile going.
Not sure on the 55's out of a 22-243AI.
kj
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 09, 2014, 07:39 PM:
Okay, I have done it, but I do not recommend punching a factory barrel to Ackley specs. Go ahead and buy a premium barrel, whoever your choice but don't throw good money after bad by rechambering a factory barrel, set back a half turn or three more; no matter. That's just my opinion.
Good hunting. El Bee
By the way. I have a 243AI, just for targets but I don't hear much about my 22-243Middlested which is a very good daylight gun. Maybe with a better scope it might be good at night but it's awful
hard to beat what I already have. a 22-250AI and a 25'06AI. Performance wise, it's no contest. Anyway, the Middlested is just excellent on daytime coyotes. Never had a reason to try any other bullet but the 62 Berger, but it's not the fastest barrel in the world: good enough though.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 09, 2014, 07:55 PM:
quote:
Never had a reason to try any other bullet but the 62 Berger,
I thought you used a 64 Sierra SPT or something?
I just brought the factory barrel up as kind of an example, talking about tight chambers. I actually bought a new Shilen SS match barrel when I bought the reamer. These Shilens are not impressing me lately. May have to try Brux, or Lilja.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on February 09, 2014, 08:46 PM:
Dan sorry to hear about the Shilen barrels not working out for you. Right now I have 3 and love them. One is a 17 ackley hornet, another is a 17 tactical, and finally a 22-250AI. All three have been great barrels.Very accurate in all 3 of them.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2014, 06:25 AM:
Nope, my 22-250AI uses 65Starkes. I was using the 64Berger before. By the way, this 22-243Midd is a Hart barrel, came with a switch barrel in 22-250AI but I have yet to screw it on. The 243Ackley is a Shilen, chambered by Dan, (the man).
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 10, 2014, 06:45 AM:
Dan rebarreled my Rem 700 into a 22-250AI. It is a very nice shooting rifle. I only shoot 55gr NBT's or 55 Sierra SBT's out of it. I can usually hold 1/2" groups with it @100 off a bench. I had a 6XC that would do better, both wear Shilens.
So, I dunno. I guess that is why they have threads on the end, so they can be removed.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2014, 08:03 AM:
This .22-243AI case behind a fast twist tube is gonna turn out to be some hot shit!
After visually comparing one of my .22-243Win cases to one of Randy's .22-243AI cases in Nebraska, just couldn't help but ponder what that extra case capacity would allow with a 75-90gr boolit!?!?
Happy to see that KJ's results are as good, or better than we expected from this 'pet' project! Finally got a chane to shoot mine and sure had fun fireforming brass with it on some Okie coyotes, 3265fps with an 80Amax.
Full throttle, I'd put almost 300fps on top of that, which will firmly plant this fast twist .22-243AI in the "bad-fukkin-azz" category. Basically mirroring the .224TTH (22-6mm) in performance, with possibly better case life from the improved shoulder and .243 Lapua brass...
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 10, 2014, 09:47 AM:
Fred, you sure have some nice equipment.
What rings are you holding that Kahles with?
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 10, 2014, 10:35 AM:
Thanks, Dan!
For the life of me, I can't remember what brand those QD rings are? Grabbed 'em from the box and got the Kahles squared up on a Seekins rail at home, then sent it to OK. KJ & Jayde were good enough to mount it up and zero it for me with KJ's fireform load and it shot lights out...
Perhaps they are older Leupolds, before they started making the current QRWs??? they have that Weaver 'slide in' fit on the right side, but don't have the shitty Weaver screws, so I'm at a loss? Instead, there are Torx screws and QD thumb levers on the port side.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2014, 10:41 AM:
Umm, my 22-243Midd with friend. By the way, my best night scope is a Kahles 3X12X56.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 10, 2014, 11:12 AM:
Damn, that makes a big ugly spot.
Fred, who does your G-Smith work?
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on February 10, 2014, 11:36 AM:
Depends, Dan. I belong to the Kelly Jackson school of terminal performance.
Actually, that one in particular was a rush job, she heard the safety click off, so could have been a little better placement.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 10, 2014, 12:29 PM:
Fred, who does your G-Smith work?
Dan - I'll answer for Fred. The same guy that did your 17-204 rechamber job.
kj
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 10, 2014, 03:24 PM:
Dan who did your re-chamber job?
LOL
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 10, 2014, 05:23 PM:
Well, that would be Casey, the same guy who did Kelly's!
<LAFFIN>
Hint; it was done in Okie-land. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ February 10, 2014, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: DanS ]
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 11, 2014, 05:50 AM:
Yep, Kasey built these 22-243AIs for us, and there are a few more gettin' done for interested parties!
Kasey did a super job on this rifle, and he chambered my 6.5SAUM, as well. That fucker shot from the word "GO". Got rifles from some big name 'smiths, and Kasey's work is right up there with 'em...
Thats a slick McSwirly on the Middlested, Leonard!!!
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2014, 02:46 PM:
Kelly is this the new local one Donovan was telling me about?
I'm still using the bat cave and really can't complain but options is a good thing.
And I understand about keeping them low key.
[ February 11, 2014, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: TOM64 ]
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 11, 2014, 04:03 PM:
Tom, hopefully its not the guy Donavon used to build the 223ai/IED's. That idiot destroyed some nice CZ's & M7's.
Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on February 11, 2014, 04:10 PM:
Tom - I expect it is. I know D's sidekick Jason has used him on several new builds.
Can't remember him build any 223AI's for D. Just a 6.5 something that D sold the same week he got it....but you know how that boy is.
kj
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 11, 2014, 04:33 PM:
Kelly, that happened a few years back, only reason I mention it was somehow my name came up when a Rem M7 popped, I was guilty of saying the CZ 527's had some really nice barrels AND good chambers. Some how, some nameless soul claimed I said "they didn't need to do anything but run a AI reamer in a 223 CZ because they had tight headspace". As for the IED name, I am guilty for the obvious reason.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 11, 2014, 09:26 PM:
No Mike, this is a different one.
I don't remember the 223ai either but I do remember the 22-250 with the gaulded lugs...
I'm content with the bat cave for now but I may call you up next time Kelly.
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 11, 2014, 11:04 PM:
Thanks Tom, for clearing that up. When Kelly mentioned D recommending a gunsmith, it left me with a less than fresh feeling. In retrospect if it had been the guy I'm thinking of, ya'll would already have found out the hard way. I must add that if anyone is thinking of having a rifle built, make the gunsmith fire a round thru it and look at the fired brass before leaving the shop.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2014, 06:24 AM:
Mike, could you elaborate on what happened with those CZs and M7s?
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 13, 2014, 07:53 AM:
Remington was offering a stainless synthetic M7 & 700 in 223, 22-250, 220 Swift etc. Quality or lack of quality was a problem! Pitted barrels, bad chambers, partial lug engagement, extractor problems etc. When some of the rifles were returned repaired, someone decided he wanted an AI. He located a gunsmith and from what I later found out neither one bothered to follow Ackley's instructions and a Rem or two suffered failures when they tried to fireform factory ammo in rifles with unsafe chambers. As I said in a prior post they then decided to use CZ 527's because "I told them CZ's had better barrels w/ tighter headspace". Again ignoring Ackley's instructions to set the barrels back to properly headspace the new chamber. Fire forming case separations again occurred.
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 13, 2014, 08:00 AM:
Tom, is quote:
The Bat Cave
the same Bat Cave as on 24hrCampfire?
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2014, 08:32 AM:
whOaaahhhh nelly!
Thanks for clarifying, Mike...
Posted by Prune Picker (Member # 4107) on February 13, 2014, 08:50 AM:
Sorry Fred, the damage to the altered rifles that I saw were... missing extractors (rem), brass deposits in ejector port/hole, galled bolt lugs (not sure about lug setback) marks on bolt handle (maybe hammer marks?). The missing extractors was why I named them IED's. The one CZ 527 that I remember had no obvious damage but the detachable magazine well looked a bit odd.
Posted by knockemdown (Member # 3588) on February 13, 2014, 08:59 AM:
So much for confirming a 'crush fit' before fireforming, huh? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by DanS (Member # 316) on February 13, 2014, 09:14 AM:
I saw firsthand a Mauser 98 with a custom barrel that was chambered about .125 too deep. Luckily no kabooms, but this was a brand new rebarrel, not a setback or rechamber.
I see no need to mention the old bastards name since he is dead and won't be chambering anymore firearms.
Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on February 13, 2014, 05:15 PM:
Ya Dan same, same.
UBB.classicTM
6.3.0