posted March 08, 2011 07:40 PM                  

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Question #1, do you take binoculars on stand?

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Second question: Do you carry a handgun on stand?

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posted March 09, 2011 12:05 PM                   

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3/4Flap
Senior Member


Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Idaho Nowhere near a McDonald's
Posts: 261 It may be a troll, but it is a big deal to me...

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Sorry...this is long.

I have shot many dogs with a rifle, some with a pistol/revolver, only one bear with a handgun. The dogs; .45 Colt, .357 SIG, 9x19, .45 ACP .

Troll thread or not, the issue is an important one for us here. On the ranch here, we used to have frequent visits by stock-chasing dogs. We killed them because they cause tremenodous damage to livestock. Since the idiotic introduction of wolves and population increase of that trash, the issue has altered somewhat. We have fewer dogs but wolves remain. I have had them follow me in my skitrack.

Having killed various dogs and of course coyotes with pistols, I am not concerned with the need for power per se. In fact, I seriously considered a FN FiveseveN pistol for ski jaunts due to its light weight. Bear are underground that time of year and I feel the 5.7 would do well even on large wolves. For years I carried a TT33 or .357 SIG.

Now, what happens when you shoot a dog? Well, they drop to the shot if hit CNS, or run if not. I once shot a 50 pound stock chaser 7 times fast with a .357 SIG and 140 grain Sellier & Bellot bullets and it only dropped at the 8th shot. My son standing nearby watched each bullet exit the dog and strike the hard trail under it, kicking up dust each time. Elapsed time was not long but the thing took 7 to go down.

I also shot another dog once with 260 grain Lyman 454190 semi-pointed {old mold} bullets. I hit it fast double action 4 times and it dropped after shot 5.

I've shot literally truckloads of skittish, semi-wild ranch sheep and rams with various calibers in FMJ {moslty } persuasion and long ago dumped the .45 for FMJ work {stock killing}.

As for bear, I have not shot too many, 9 total. All but one with a rifle. Two were a little exciting and a bit troublesome. One, real bad.

That was the one shot with the .44 Mag using a "heavy .44 Special" load; Nosler 240 JHP at 1175 fs.

My bad pistol fight took place with a very small bear that was enraged by the hounds {imagine that} and took 6 lethal {but not CNS} hits with my .44 and ultimately died at my ankles after my 14-year-old son dove over my shoulder to "bayonet" it with a single shot from a 7x57R. I'm not too bad a shot with a sixgun and the first 3 shots were called in a running fight, with the front sight etched in my head when the trigger broke on each shot. First at 40 yards, through and thorough shot; lungs; as it ran across an old dark, dim, overgrown skid trail. Bear dropped.

Then when the dogs got to it...blew up, grabbing a dog and rolling down off the cut bank.

Next was as it ran away from me, the shot being put on the seat of its pants and was the only round we recovered. Shot was about 15 yards as I chased it. Then, the next was as it turned and swatted at its ass, saw me and charged. That shot went off at something liem 10 yards or so but was a bit high/too far back, hitting about at the last rib going rear ward.

That fight lasted maybe 2 minutes {?} and left everyone there grabbing their breath and stone quiet when the bear stopped moving. They are damn tough animals and not to be trifled with if you pick a fight with one. Any pistol will leave you at a disadvantage mostly thru shootability so think hard about a gun that kicks so much you can't fire it from weird positions because you might have to fire weak-handed from lying on your back or some such thing.

Last 3 of my shots on that critter were fired one-handed with the gun pressed into the bear's chest and shot fast double action. My son later said they sounded like a burst from our old .45 ACP Stemple submachinegun. I miscounted and thought I fired twice which left me with an empty gun and a bear lunging at me, on my ankles. I then stuck the muzzle on the bear's head and commenced "clicking". My son heard the "clicks", saw me struggle to pull rounds from my gun belt and then came over the top. He didn't stand around trying to do the math. He's a good kid.

Anyway, that whole affair highlights a few things about sixguns, woods and protection. Mostly that I screwed up in my round count and that it is utterly impossible to say before the fight how it is all going to end. Like we said when I was boxing, who knows after the first haymaker flies? The other guy has ideas of his own and he's not gonna share them with you until he finds your jaw with his fist. Ditto bear.

There are a lot of computer-selling, paper-punching, gunfighter wannabes lurking on these sites that will tell you they will "place their shot" here or there in a fight.

Well, let them talk, or rather, type.

I just more-or-less deepsixed the 5.7 plan, and bought a Glock 20. I'll keep my targets and posting on that one on the 10 site.

Anyway, for dogs, get a fast opening HP in 115 or 124 grain 9x19 and a good fast-opening HP in the heavier calibers too, and remember, as you go up in caliber, some bullet need more resistance to open. For dogs or protection from woods trash like wolves, use a good HP but make sure it opens. The 7.62x25, 9x19, or on up with HP's should go well. Don't use FMJ's if you want them to stop. That goes for the worthless .45 ACP, too {FMJ-wise}. I've shot truckloads of butcher critters with the various calibers using FMJU's and now don't even own a .45. I se no difference between it and the 9x19 when FMJ's are used.

I have ZERO experience with big grizzly, but from what I've sen with black bear, use a rifle for protection.

I can go into the ballistics of my load in detail if you like, but for the small bear I fought, it sucked.

Here's the bear. I don't take pix of dogs. Just kill 'em and use them for yote bait..

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