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Author
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Topic: .223 bullets
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted June 13, 2009 03:20 PM
I don't reload but perhaps i should start.I looked at alot of stuff on utube and have read alot of reloading info on the net.I have a good feal for how to load and i'm confident i could reload in a safe manner.
The only thing i don't have is a source for bullets.
I would like to shot.223 hollow points.
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 13, 2009 05:52 PM
You mean .224". Some early Hornets were .223" diameter. It don't matter at all, except if you do happen to stumble across a few boxes of .223".
The best thing you can do is get with somebody that reloads and watch what he does. It's hard to learn from written instructions or video.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 14, 2009 04:51 AM
It is important to know The twist rate of your rifling, and the intended use of the bullet also.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted June 14, 2009 08:41 AM
I don't have a clue do i! Now you know why i never show up on any gun fourms.So much for confidence it's not that i'm naive about guns are gun safety.I'm ignorant about reloading but a guy has to start some where.I would hate to blow my face off,do to ignorance,not that it's any thing to write home about LOL.
I thought i would start out with the generic lee loader.To keep my coast down,and to see if it's something i will even stick with.
I do know a fellow that could help me out, with my lack of knowledge on the subject of reloading.
My goal is to save money,and the pride of knowing i can would be nice.Hell it might be the only way a person can shot in the future any way.
I only want a load i can use every day.I want it for shooting predators,hillbilly plinking,and be good out to 500 yards.
The ony thought i have right now is a bullet in (HPBT).
This is what i shoot.
Savage 12 series varmint model 12 FVSS.
Rem 223(1in9").
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Dan Carey
unknown comic
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posted June 14, 2009 09:04 AM
I would take a look at the 60 grain Vmax bullet made by Hornady if you are going to actually shoot at predators at 500 yards. Its not a HPBT but it does have a BT and is a hollow cavity design with a plastic tip to improve the BC of the bullet.
Also, you might consider the 55 grain bullet. It is the most common bullet used in the 223 Rem cartridge.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted June 14, 2009 09:05 AM
My 223AI really likes the Hornady 52gr AMax. Its an accurate bullet that also performs very well on coyotes. Kills great and not bad on hides, most of the time. It will make a mess if you hit a bone. But so will almost all bullets.
All my 223s shoot the Sierra #1365, 55gr soft poin boat tail well. It may not be the most accurate bullet in any of my rifles, but shoots good enough for calling in all of them. It performs well on coyotes as well.
You gotta do this on your own for your rifle. All Im doing is telling you what works for me.
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted June 15, 2009 01:17 PM
It's good that you are becomming interested in reloading. You will become a better riflemen because of it. Your stated goals are reasonable and very doable up until you state that you want a load that performs out to 500 yards. A 500yard coyote getter is doable, but a tall order when it comes to the 223. At the very least the 500 yard shot will take a different bullet from the average everyday shooter, quite possibly a much higher quality bullet. Remember this, a 223 hasn't got much of an engine to push a 224 bullet hard, so the 223 is good (very good I might add) out to about 300 yards, after that it looses it's steam fairly quickly. That doesn't mean it can't be accurate far past 300 yards, but it loses much of it's punch. That's where the heavier bullets come in. A heavy bullet carries more energy past about 350 yards than a lighter one does. ...... Remember 500 yards is a tall order for most 224 bullets to be considered a reliable killer at extended ranges.
[ June 15, 2009, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2009 01:29 PM
Yeah, Michael is right. 500 yards is easier said than done, and most unlikely with a 223 Remington. For that, you need to go with the 17 Remington and 25 gr. Hornady's.
He could have suggested a few .224" bullets suitable for longer range coyotes, and mentioned the twist requirements to stabilize the longer, heavier bullets. Or, in other cartridges, the velocities needed. Just remember, Lenbo recommends at least 55 grain bullets in 223Rem., for coyotes.
(btw, just kidding about the seventeen)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted June 15, 2009 03:17 PM
I'm not sure if i thought i could kill something at 500 yards are not! There might be some one who can but that some ones not me.
I have hit paper at 500 yards mind you that paper was 8' tall x4' wide.
It took at least 100 rounds to just nick a 24"x24" target at 500 yards.
I can shoot 300 yards all day long.
This is what i have shot with my rifle UMC45gr.,some high end reloads out of a outfit out of Texas in52grto55gr.they made some tight groups. please keep your wooden steaks and your cross's to your self.
And for the record i shot this brand only because i'm a cheap S.O.B.
Wolf brand in55gr.And wolf brandin62gr.
My rifle shot's this well.The truth is my rifle is more capable than me.
So you all know why i need to reload.
Thanks Talker.
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 15, 2009 03:28 PM
Based on your most recent response, ie: Wolf ammo, etc. Going cheap, in other words.
I want to be as fair and honest as possible. Handloading doesn't save much money, done right. The investment in gear will take several years to get even. Sure, you already have the factory brass, but all the rest needs to be purchased, and it ain't cheap anymore. You need a press and dies and a scale and a micrometer and a bunch of other stuff, case trimmers, chamfering tools; on and on.
What you do gain is wisdom and knowledge and (probably) an increase in accuracy? It's all custom, at this point; something a factory cartridge can't do for you.
You need to read as much in the handloading manuals as you can, a whole semester's worth and you will start to get a clue about what you are trying to asccomplish.
Good hunting, and good luck. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted June 15, 2009 06:03 PM
Like I said before I applaud you for starting down the reloading road. You will learn about your rifle and what it takes to shoot well and it is likely that you will be a better shot because of it.
I thought I gave a good answer to your starter question, but Leonard has prodded me, so here I go with a broader answer than I've given in quite a while on these boards.
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Okay lets get specific with my knowledge of the 223.
Primers - most any small rifle primer will due and with the difficulty some areas are having getting primers take what you can get, in all reality primers make very little difference. I like CCI primers especially the CCI BR primers, I'm a sucker for the little B stamped on'em. Then Winchester, then either Remington or Federals, they all start the fire fairly well.
Powder - The 223 is a small case and hands down my favorite powder is Winchester 748. I've used other powders and I'm sure many folks have their favorites. the 223 isn't finicky about the powder you use. Stick with the popular 223 powders and you've got it made.
When dealing with powders remember this though. Rifle powder comes in many different shapes, Stick, short stick, flake and my favorite ball. Ball powder is the easiest to load in a small case and throws easily (you can weigh each charge or you can throw'em. A thrower is a precision instrument that used volume not weight to measure powder, you set the thrower with a weigh scale). After setting the thrower with my scale I throw EVERY charge I shoot, some don't though.
Bullets - You have a 1:9 twist. A very decent all around twist rate. You can shoot'em all up to about 70 grain bullets. Everybody has their favorite brand, some are cheap, some are expensive, some are CRAZY expensive. All have their place. For me it is very difficult to beat the Hornady line of bullets. The V-max's are very decent, but the lighter ones are fairly explosive and don’t over look their match grade bullets. I've become a believer in them. Like Dan Carey said, for the longer shots the 60 grainers are a good start. I'd lean toward the heaviest bullet our rifle will shoot well. That is likely in the 67, 68, 69, 70 grain range. If your rifle will shoot'em stick with the bigs for long range killing. But, honestly, until you have the skill, please stay away from anything other than Prairie Dogs or paper for the long range stuff, I like shooting balloons.
Leonard is right, reloading is a precision occupation. Good reloading requires very decent equipment. I suggest getting a reloading book like those sold by Hornady and Nosler. They will tell you everything you need to know and will help you along.
Edited for spelling
[ June 16, 2009, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: MJM ]
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted June 15, 2009 09:15 PM
Leonard & Michael brought up many good point's.
One of them as mentioned is buying & reading a reloading manual it's priceless in my opinion..& you can't have to many of them,it's dry but good reading LOL...
Posts: 1986 | From: Jordan Valley Oregon | Registered: Aug 2008
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted June 16, 2009 06:57 AM
I would like to say thanks to each person that made a reply.Dave i ony read a few mags and never read a news paper.But i do like to read how to books and manuals.
MJM sir the long range shooting will not be uesd for coyotes.It's just for personal pride,Paper,baloons are just fine.
I'm not a coyote god nor a boy scout.But i do take pride in being able to police my self out in the feild.
Yes i was a bit of a jackass to think reloading was cheap.
Now i know way i wan't to reload.
Thanks for the replys.
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 16, 2009 08:26 AM
Ok........ For the benefit of those us who don't reload; Just what would happen if some of those Hornady .223 bullets were loaded & shot as .223 Rem??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8232 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted June 16, 2009 08:39 AM
If you shoot a 223 in a 224 barrel nothing will happen. Winchester used to sell bulk bullets labled as 223, not the more common 224. I don't know if they were really 223 or if they were labled that simply to market to the 223 crowd. I shot over a thousand of them on Prairie dogs with no problem. In truth a bullet being fired is a bit like a rubber ball. It's pushed hard from the rear and deforms a bit while going down the barrel. The 0.001" difference between a .223 and a .224 bullet means nothing. I've heard that the true 0.223 barrels performed better with a .223 bullet, I won't argue with that, it simply makes sence, but 0.001" is such a small amount in an ultimately inperfect world....
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted June 16, 2009 08:56 AM
Kokopelli,
They would work, but velocity and accuracy would suffer.
One note for those who are thinking about getting into reloading for the .223 NEVER EVER pick up used brass at the range. It may look like good free brass, and a lot of it will work. But sooner or later you are going to pick up the wrong one and it will get stuck in your dies. Then you either have to buy new dies, or a special tool to remove it. You are much better off, buying and using your own brass.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 16, 2009 01:12 PM
As I wrote in my first reply, it is not very important, .223 or 224, but it's important to understand the difference and what they are used for, should you ever stumble across them.
What Tim said is the truth. So, why not be aware and act accordingly?
Now, on the other hand, I reload for an SKS and use .308" bullets. Accuracy is not half bad but I never shot through screens?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted June 16, 2009 03:25 PM
Leonard - I really wasn't disagreeing with you or Tim for that matter. I'v heard many times that the early 223 Hornests don't shoot well with 224 bullets. Not being a Hornet shooter I have no reason to find fault with that.
I'm not so sure about the 0.223" bullet in a 223 Remington. I do know that it wouldn't be a dangerous thing to do though. I wouldn't use 'em on purpose (I measured the Winchester 223 bulk bullets and they measured 0.224"), that would be a waste of money .... I suppose there might be a tight barrel out there somewhere thought. Basically I'msaying that your points were all valid and valuable.
MJM
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 16, 2009 03:38 PM
quote:
Basically I'msaying that your points were all valid and valuable.
MJM
Michael, I never thought otherwise.
Another thing though; and part of the reason to know the difference, shooting .224" bullets in a .223" barrel might not be safe? (BUT) What the hell, nobody has a Hornet made in the thirties, do they? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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5shots
Knows what it's all about
Member # 427
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posted June 17, 2009 08:49 PM
P O Ackley, in his Handbook talks about opening the throught on a 30.06 enough to load and fire 8mm (.32 cal) bullets in a .30 cal barrel. They showed a lower pressure than the factory rounds fired before the barrel was modified. I think a .224 bullet in a .223 barrel would be fine but I would start with a light load.
Posts: 28 | From: glendive,mt | Registered: Oct 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 17, 2009 09:49 PM
A little scary, 8mm bullets in a 30'06. But, my next thought is, with this asshole Obama, we might be forced to do scary things, the way components are drying up. Remember how Speer got started after WWII making bullets from spent 22 rimfire cases.
Depressing and disgusting. Please4 remember to vilify and disrespect any Obama voters you accidently bump in to.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32366 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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