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Author
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Topic: Choking for BB's
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 06, 2008 09:52 AM
This is sort of a first for me, that is posting a gun related question on a board other than ... well the other board. I actually posted this one over there, but I think I'll get a different type of answer over here. So, here we go....
Using a shotgun for predators isn't anything new to me, but to be honest I just grabbed a turkey choke and lately a regular Remington full choke screwed in the Remington 870 express and called it good. While coyotes fell to this combination, I've never been happy with it. The shotgun shot VERY high and kills were inconsistent.
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At this point I feel the need to qualify my shotgun experience. I'm a Skeet shooter, I've shot many thousands of rounds in a shotgun a year for quite some time. I know how to handle a shotgun, I know about sight picture and all (well, not ALL, this is meant to reduce the number of newbie responses) the things you need to know about shooting a shotgun.
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The inconsistent results made shotgunning predators less than enjoyable. So, over the years a plan for my predator shotgun has been in my head and now it's happening.
The 870 got a 20" deer barrel with Rem Chokes, it got a new AR collapsible CAR style stock (the jury is still out on this stock), a left hand safety conversion, and a red dot scope. I’m not so sure about the scope, but the gun does point naturally with both eyes open the red dot just jump into view. The setup seems right, only field testing will prove this out.
Now to the real question. With the price of both shot and chokes I can’t go out and try everything until the right combination appears so for 3” copper plated BB’s and #4 buck shot what are your chokes of choice?
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2008 10:27 AM
No simple answers to that one, Michael. Especially beyond the novice level. And, yeah. The number of options available can bewilder anybody, and you didn't even mention heavy shot or dead coyote. Or 10 gauge, as some people think it has met it's equal? Finding it, that's the problem. What I would do is stay on the modified side of the choices, we don't need a turkey choke for coyotes. You might notice that the pros in the airplanes don't use anything very exotic.
Other than that, I hope we get illuminating responses, as I am of the same mind as you, lots of ideas, but not sure where to start implimentation? I am thinking EO Tech rather than red dot, though?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 06, 2008 11:08 AM
Leonard - Good points.
It's my goal to use regular copper plated lead shot/buckshot on coyotes. These rounds have killed coyote effectively for many years and I don't see a need for the exotic stuff (mostly due to the price $3.00-$5.00 a shot in a shotgun gets pricy in a hurry) .... thats not exactly true, the exotic stuff is necessary in non toxic zones and I guess it's very impressive stuff. I no longer have my 10ga so that's no longer on the table for me.
It is possible that I'm over choked, in my mind a modified choke is a reasonable consideration. I often wonder if the new bread of "Coyote or Predator" choke is nothing more than a good old modified varient.
Admittedly the scope is an inexpensive starter to see if I like a scope on a shotgun. The reason for it is I want a site system that doesn't depend on having a perfect cheak weld on the stock. You know that often a predator doesn't present the best angle for a shot. My reasoning is, with these systems if you can see the dot and it's on the coyote you can take the shot. The reflex type site systems in the price range I looked at seemed to have a lot more paralax(sp) issues than the Red Dot systems, so I thought I'd give the Red Dot a try. Being dependent on a battery makes me a bit nervous though.
[ November 06, 2008, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: MJM ]
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 11:04 AM
MJM,
It depends on what you are expecting out of your shotgun. All of the Remington 870's I have patterned, were coyote killers with copper plated and buffered BB,s out to 40 yards when shooting it through a standard "full" choke. That same full choke threw nice patterns with #4 BUCK out to about same range. Since all shotguns seem to vary a little as to which choke constriction it likes, your results may be a bit different. You can gain another 5-10 yards by shooting a tighter choke, but the trade off is in the very tight pattern you end up with when shooting at 20 yards or so. A KICK'S "Gobbling Thunder" .680 would likely tighten up your long range patterns, but you will end up needing to aim as though you are shooting a rifle.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 11:10 AM
[ November 06, 2008, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 11:30 AM
The above pattern was shot with my Beretta Extrema. The pattern you see below was shot with my old Browning BPS "Game Gun", which has 22" barrel and adjustable open sights. As you will see, the 2&3/4" fodder does quite well enough. The choke is a KICK's "Buck Kicker" tube, which is .690 I.D.
[ November 06, 2008, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Rich ]
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted November 06, 2008 12:58 PM
Dang, Rich... you're selling me on the Kicks! I've patterned the stock Full tube on my SBE2 with #4 buck, I'm TOTALLY unimpressed. You have more on the plate with a 2.75" at 40 than I had with a 3.5" at 30!!! The stock Full on the 870 was much better.
Looks like I'm in the market too, MJM....
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 06, 2008 01:55 PM
Steve - You might be over choked for the load
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted November 06, 2008 02:03 PM
MJM, how do you figure? I thought if you're overchoked you start getting an empty center... doughnuts. Mine are nice and even, but getting really wide at 50, like averaging 5" between pellets. I'm shooting on craft paper 3ft wide, so I have a pretty good idea.
Gets expensive to do lots of testing, like you mentioned! "Boom" $4, "Boom!" $4, "Boom!" $4
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 06, 2008 02:49 PM
Well thats a bit of a different picture story for my mind to fiddle with. Not long ago it was pretty much a matter of luck to scratch down a 50 yard coyote with a shotgun. With the patterns Rich is getting a 50 yard coyote looks VERY doable. Your pattern with only 5" between pellets seems more like the norm to me.
I suppose Rich could be using 36" paper plates to patten his shotgun ........ ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ November 06, 2008, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 02:55 PM
rainshadow1,
The full choke tube that came with my Beretta Extrema wouldn't pattern for beans either. I know what you mean about choke tubes getting expensive too. I have a wheel barrow full of em I think.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 06, 2008 02:58 PM
While on the subject and looking at Rich's increadably tight patterns. How would you sight in a shotgun with a scope on it? Tell me if this makes sense. Set a target out at ~20yards and sight in with slugs, then test with shot. It seems to me that it would be hard to go wrong with this method. And who knows, it might be useful having a shotgun sighted in with slugs ..... On a stand where a big cat shows up for instance. Chances are slim you'd get a shot off, but it's better than no shot at all.
[ November 06, 2008, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: MJM ]
Posts: 97 | From: Tucson, Az | Registered: Jan 2004
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 02:59 PM
"Boom" $4, "Boom!" $4, "Boom!" $4"
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Ya but-but-but STEVE!, YOU can afford it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 03:17 PM
I bought some of that 3&1/2" "big boomer" stuff. I can't remember if the following pattern was with Winchester #4 BUCK with 50 pellets, or Hevi-shot 3&1/2" "dead coyote" with 50 plus pellets. At any rate, I believe it will do the job.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted November 06, 2008 06:13 PM
quote:
"Boom" $4, "Boom!" $4, "Boom!" $4"
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Ya but-but-but STEVE!, YOU can afford it.
Just because I spend it, doesn't mean I can AFFORD it!!! Ask my wife!
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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rainshadow1
Knows what it's all about
Member # 899
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posted November 06, 2008 06:19 PM
Oh, I remembered what I was shooting with the 870 I sold. It was the ported "Duck Commander" extra full. That thing was awesome with 3.5" 4 buck. I didn't save my paper like Rich, but I remember an empty 3 gallon water jug tumbling for another 20 yards from a 50 yard blow. Probably over 20 pellets in roughly a 12x16" square.
I got the duck commander so I could shoot steel also. I regularly go to non-toxic areas.
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- - Steve
RainShadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
Cougar E-Sound Library, Hand Calls, & Call-In Story Library.
www.rain-shadow.com
Posts: 152 | From: NW Washington | Registered: Jul 2006
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 06, 2008 06:37 PM
Michael, you know Mike Burris and his brother Ned.
Mike told me a month or so ago that he has developed a load that he and his brother take coyotes regularly at 100+ yards. There are a few guys that I take their word without *********** , Mike is one.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2008 06:58 PM
Higgins, my bs meter went on tilt.
Good hunting. LB
edit: were you trying to say: "without re$ervation"?
Wonder what the drop is at 100 yards, where the hell do you hold? And, how do you do it, special 20º sights?
[ November 06, 2008, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted November 06, 2008 07:48 PM
MJM, the scattergun is a butchers tool for coyotes, keep it handy for bird hunting and skeet, and go back to your rifle my friend:)
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 06, 2008 09:02 PM
Uh Huh. And, were you one of the 58 enlightened, but disappointed voters in your district?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32368 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted November 06, 2008 09:24 PM
You are pretty close to correct in your educated opinion there Vic. When a man chokes a shotgun tight enough for 60 yard sure kill range on coyotes, the coyote at 40 yards is gonna have a ten inch area in his hide that looks sorta like a sponge. A man needs to understand also, that I was using shooting sticks to steady my aim when I shot the above patterns. Sixty yards is starting to get iffy with 3" "dead coyote" out of my present rig. I have some 3&1/2" fodder on hand, but can't seem to find a single photo of a 60 yard pattern with that stuff.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted November 07, 2008 06:17 AM
Leonard, you know Mike also. If your BS meter is tilting, turn the damn thing off, call Mike and expand your horizons.
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coyote whacker
Knows what it's all about
Member # 639
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posted November 07, 2008 07:43 AM
We have one of our guys that aerial hunts and he has a "dead coyote tube" he has been using 4 buck and that choke tube does real well for dense patterns at 40 yards with 4 buck out of a beneli shotgun.
Big impact differance between that 4 buck lead and BB or BBB steel on coyotes
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This is done on my time and my dime. My views may differ from those of others!
Posts: 376 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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MJM
Knows what it's all about
Member # 270
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posted November 07, 2008 08:17 AM
Mike Burris is about as solid a Predator hitter as they come, but man a 100yard shotgun load ....
That brings up something I was thinking about last night. These super tight patterns are great to look at, but are they really practical in the real world? If not, what type or density or range would a practical load/pattern be for a shotgun? Driving a fist sized hole in a coyote at 20 yards isn't my goal either.
So what do you all think about my idea of sighting in with slugs and centering a shot/buckshot pattern.
Vic - I hear what your saying, I'm not much for a shotgun on coyotes either. But sometimes there isn't a choice. Either the ground requires a shotgun or the law requires one. With some very decent ground between Eloy and North of Phoenix that's to darned good to miss simply because a shotgun isn't your favorite tool.
MJM
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted November 07, 2008 08:19 AM
Yeah, I tend to agree with the above writer. My attitude is much like AZ, but there are those occasions when a shotgun makes a lot of sense.
Years ago, I thought BBs were fantastic. That was before I tried #4Buck. At this point, I have some dead coyote but have not killed a coyote with it, but it is hard to imagine that it kills better than #4Buck? I'll tell you one thing, this non toxic shit is a con job.
Higgins. You offer nothing, you tease. What is this magical load that Burris uses, if you don't mind saving me a phone call?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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