This is topic Hornet cases & small pistol primers in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on July 24, 2006, 01:29 PM:
From time to time I read articles about loading the 22 Hornet or one its wildcat offspring and the auther will talk of using small pistol primers in lieu of small rifle primers. Can anyone out there tell me why this is being done?
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 24, 2006, 02:07 PM:
I wish I was smart enough to know the "whys". I picked the trick up from a Ross Seyfried article many years ago. Something to do with small case capacity,case shape etc. If you think about it, using a primer that is made to ignite the rockets on a case the size of a .223,might just be to much fire for a tiny case like the hornet?
The bottom line is, it works,and works well. I noticed dramatic decrease in group size as soon as switching to small pistol primers,and Ive not looked back.
Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on July 24, 2006, 10:25 PM:
The basic difference in a small pistol and a small rifle primer is not in the primer mix. It is in the cup thickness. Pistol primers have a thinner cup to allow the weaker springs of a pistol to activate the primer. The use of a pistol primer fired from a rifle case can cause primers to rupture. In a 22 hornet, there is not enough pressure to have thes rupture. I have fired several thousand hornet rounds with both small pistol and small rifle primers. In some cases with some powders the rifle primers worked better. The opposite was the case with other powders.
Find the ones that work with your load. The safety issue of the small pistol primers in a hornet case will be null.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on July 25, 2006, 09:49 AM:
Yes and no; your right about the thickness and sensitivity of the primer cup itself, but there indeed is a difference in the priming pellet mixture. This results in different ignition flame duration and intensity. Thus the slightly more gentle flame of the small pistol primer has something to do with the apparent benefits when using them in the hornet case. It's the "why's" to that particular anomaly, that I don't fully understand, I just accept it,and it pleases me that a so-so shooting hornet rifle, can turn into a tack driver, merely by switching:)
Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on July 25, 2006, 10:02 AM:
Maybe its like trying to use the gas burner out of a large boiler to light birthday candles?
Posted by Nitehunter (Member # 915) on August 03, 2006, 08:10 PM:
I shoot all Lil-Gun in my K-Hornet... I stop using sm pistol primers for any loads over 12½gr... after that I start getting leakage through the cup on about 25% of the rounds, so I go to CCI sm rifle BR primers... that settles them down and with the hotter loads they'll shoot near as good as the lighter loads...
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 04, 2006, 08:57 PM:
I wished I would have kept the article, was in one of the obscure gun rags maybe two years ago. Anyway; the author tinkered with a specialty bullet,and I can't recall the name brand....JLK or some such thing. It was a 25 grain,.224 bullet, some alloy,was not one of the short abbreviated things like the fly weight stubby bullets we think of for 22 calibers. It was fairly long,hollowpoint affair. He stoked the hornet case with a given load of "power pistol" powder,and out of a 26" barreled low wall, achieved an honest 4,000 fps out of a damned hornet!
No real point to this post, just talking about the hornet,made me recall it:) I love the 22 hornet, great little round,with more use than many give it credit for. Last winter, I think I used my hornet more than any other rifle, I seem to rotate them every winter, giving each one special time afield.
It's hell being a gun nut isn't it?
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 04, 2006, 09:27 PM:
Even my mother looks at me kinda funny at times, but I still have to ask - "Is there a better looking round than the Hornet?"
I shoot one a bit and think the world of it.
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on August 04, 2006, 09:41 PM:
Something cool about it huh Joe:) Ive had several over the years,and now have a CZ 527, that is the cats ass in my book. Something about the classic stock design on the CZs that fits me perfectly.
The hornet just seems to have fallen out of favor,and Im not sure why? Well; I take that back, I know why, I just don't know why:)
It has plenty of poop to take any predator at calling distance,and even reach out a bit if needed. It does all that, relatively quietly,with little to no recoil,and quite accurately.
Ive tried a bunch of different bullets,and finally settled on the Sierra 40 grain soft point hornet bullet, great shooter. Powder wise, I like AA1680, lit with a small pistol primer, that combination gives me honest sub moa groups, Ive fired several that hover around 1/2", so I have no complaints.
What are you shooting?
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 05, 2006, 07:43 AM:
I own the Humble Hornet - an H&R Model 152 (I think) single shot, full length stock. It is actually a neat looking little rifle. It is an honest one inch-ish rifle at 100 yards.
I've only killed a few called coyotes with it, and a few more snooping around where they should not have been. No problem with the way it handled them.
The rifle was bought for about $150, including 100 rounds and a 6X Bushnell.
I also bought 150 rounds of winchester 45gr. SP's at $12/50 at a store that was trying to dump them because they could not sell them. For the way that I shoot a rifle like this that supply held me for many years, so I have done little loading. The few that I loaded were with 4198 that I had on hand to play with some 40 gr. stuff in 223, I used bulk Win 45's.
I have recently picked up a can of Lil' Gun to try out because of the good press it gets.
I was eyeing one of the CZ's the other day, a 550, I think. Short 21" barrel. Neat rifle.
Even though I've told myself I'm done buying rifles for a while I could not have passed something like that up if it had been a 22H.
Besides, I think I need one. My "traditional" calling country now has a huntable population of bobcats with an open season, I'm thinking you'd be hard-pressed to come up with better medicine than a hornet.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 06, 2006, 06:52 PM:
I too am a Hornet fan. Haven't taken a coyote with it, but I know its limitations and it could do the job. I will take it calling this winter. Claimbuster has whipped up some loads for me that seem made for this rifle. I dread shooting anything other than his recipe.
Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on August 08, 2006, 07:45 AM:
Another fan of the hornet here. I own a little #3 Ruger single shot that I've had since I was a kid. It has the same 2.5x Weaver that's been on it forever. I still take it out occasionally to jump shoot jacks out in dez. Great little round & rifle.
Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on August 09, 2006, 01:03 PM:
NASA, what rifle model?
Tawnoper, I've handled one of those #3's in Hornet. Pretty nice.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 09, 2006, 04:52 PM:
Just your basic 77/22H, with a fixed 6X Burris I got from Vic. It's a killer combo.
Posted by bajabug (Member # 919) on August 12, 2006, 11:48 PM:
I Have the same question as claimbuster, only reguarding 44mag. Can I use large pistol primers in a Ruger Carbine ninty six with 18 inch barrel? I Want to use rounds loaded for pistol using Unique powder and a 250 gr. lead bullet. Better to ask a dumb question now, then make a dumb mistake later.
Good and safe Hunting, Emilio Pico Rivera, Ca. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on August 13, 2006, 07:03 AM:
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, bajabug. Glad to have you on board.
If your firing pin is strong enough, and you work up the load with Unique and that particular bullet, then I see no reason why you couldn't use the rifle primer?
....I just don't know why you would want to do it?
"I Want to use rounds loaded for pistol"
That statement confuses me as to your purpose?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by bajabug (Member # 919) on August 13, 2006, 09:51 AM:
Leonard,
Just wanted to know if I could use the same round interchangeably between rifle and pistol and carry only one load. The fireing pin spring should be strong enough, just wondered if it might be too strong for pistol primers.
Posted by bajabug (Member # 919) on August 13, 2006, 10:22 PM:
[EMAIL][/EMAIL]
Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on August 21, 2006, 09:51 PM:
quote:
Claimbuster has whipped up some loads for me that seem made for this rifle. I dread shooting anything other than his recipe.
What NASA failed to mention is how much he is helping me by shooting these reloads. I am a fanatic reloader. I reload for the sake of reloading. If I could get around the liability issue, I would meet all of you somewhere up in Wyoming and pass out FREE ammo. But then we live in a world of "ambulance chasers" who when they tire run for the U.S. Senate.
Posted by NASA (Member # 177) on August 22, 2006, 10:42 AM:
I've got another couple hundred rounds of brass ready for your magic. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on August 22, 2006, 11:51 PM:
I'm ready. Got another 200 loaded to go your way.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on August 23, 2006, 04:44 AM:
Claimbuster, I love to reload and seldom have the time. I have a ton to do before fall. Ill send you brass, bullets, powder, a paycheck and sign a waiver, if your interested. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on September 12, 2006, 08:57 PM:
Andy, sounds like an interesting proposition. However, I will be out of circulation for a while. Shoulder surgery, one again, will keep me away from the reloading bench for a couple of months. Hope to be back at it around Thanksgiving time.
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 13, 2006, 04:47 AM:
Hope your shoulder surgery goes well. Rotator? My wife had that done, its a bitch. Best of luck.
As to the reloading, I had a few days here when I was sick and board and got on it. Ive been loading for five rifles, and if UPS cooperates, and nothing happens so I can get some range time Friday, I will have enough for the whole winter by Friday night. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Pretty happy about that.
I actually like to reload. Its the time constraints that get to me....
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 13, 2006, 04:52 AM:
As for primers, heres about as good of an explanation as Ive seen. I was struggling with questions this week and stubled upon this....
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 13, 2006, 08:20 AM:
That's a good reference, Andy.
I printed it and it ran four pages, when all I wanted was the dimension chart. But, I figured it out. I think I will hang it in my shop.
There is a potential to be able to "cure" loose primer pockets, depending?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on September 13, 2006, 08:33 AM:
Like I said, it was the best reference I had seen. Glad Im not the only one.
I was struggling with primers for my 223AI. I was in the middle of loading ammo for it and discovered I was out of CCI450s. I called the smithy who made it and he said dont substitute. I called Frame and he said Rem 7 1/2s should work just fine. I got tons of those. I loaed up a few and sure enough, I couldnt tell a difference in the way it shot or pressure signs, not that Im even close to max to begin with. Thats what prompted me to do some searching. I dont know of many folks that actually know much about primers.
As for loose primer pockets, Im chicken. I pitch em if it goes in too easy. A piece of brass isnt worth what could happen. JMHO.
Posted by claimbuster (Member # 904) on September 19, 2006, 05:37 PM:
Second the motion on loose primer pockets. If they are loose to the trash can they go.
If I have a problem and no harm comes to the rifle and no harm comes to my eyes, I still will have to buy a new pair of jeans. Jeans are more expensive than brass.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on September 19, 2006, 07:03 PM:
I said: "depending". I toss them too, but I do know that some cases are either too difficult to make, or too rare, that the simple expediency of using a primer that is a few thousanths larger in diameter can save a whole lot of trouble. It's a judgement call, and if the different primer "feels" good going in, there is no harm in using the brass with a fatter primer. I've never done it, but in theory, it should work?
Good hunting. LB
Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on September 19, 2006, 07:25 PM:
When my primer pockets open up I uses one of these.
It seems to work pretty well, the only downside is that I mostly need it for my 17 Remington, and the case won't fit over the anvil.
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