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Author
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Topic: Hornet cases & small pistol primers
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted July 24, 2006 01:29 PM
From time to time I read articles about loading the 22 Hornet or one its wildcat offspring and the auther will talk of using small pistol primers in lieu of small rifle primers. Can anyone out there tell me why this is being done?
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
Posts: 70 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 24, 2006 02:07 PM
I wish I was smart enough to know the "whys". I picked the trick up from a Ross Seyfried article many years ago. Something to do with small case capacity,case shape etc. If you think about it, using a primer that is made to ignite the rockets on a case the size of a .223,might just be to much fire for a tiny case like the hornet?
The bottom line is, it works,and works well. I noticed dramatic decrease in group size as soon as switching to small pistol primers,and Ive not looked back.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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RagnCajn
ADDS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
Member # 879
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posted July 24, 2006 10:25 PM
The basic difference in a small pistol and a small rifle primer is not in the primer mix. It is in the cup thickness. Pistol primers have a thinner cup to allow the weaker springs of a pistol to activate the primer. The use of a pistol primer fired from a rifle case can cause primers to rupture. In a 22 hornet, there is not enough pressure to have thes rupture. I have fired several thousand hornet rounds with both small pistol and small rifle primers. In some cases with some powders the rifle primers worked better. The opposite was the case with other powders.
Find the ones that work with your load. The safety issue of the small pistol primers in a hornet case will be null.
Posts: 362 | From: Shreveport LA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted July 25, 2006 09:49 AM
Yes and no; your right about the thickness and sensitivity of the primer cup itself, but there indeed is a difference in the priming pellet mixture. This results in different ignition flame duration and intensity. Thus the slightly more gentle flame of the small pistol primer has something to do with the apparent benefits when using them in the hornet case. It's the "why's" to that particular anomaly, that I don't fully understand, I just accept it,and it pleases me that a so-so shooting hornet rifle, can turn into a tack driver, merely by switching:)
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted July 25, 2006 10:02 AM
Maybe its like trying to use the gas burner out of a large boiler to light birthday candles?
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
Posts: 70 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2006
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Nitehunter
PAKMAN
Member # 915
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posted August 03, 2006 08:10 PM
I shoot all Lil-Gun in my K-Hornet... I stop using sm pistol primers for any loads over 12½gr... after that I start getting leakage through the cup on about 25% of the rounds, so I go to CCI sm rifle BR primers... that settles them down and with the hotter loads they'll shoot near as good as the lighter loads...
Posts: 2 | From: Lititz... | Registered: Aug 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted August 04, 2006 08:57 PM
I wished I would have kept the article, was in one of the obscure gun rags maybe two years ago. Anyway; the author tinkered with a specialty bullet,and I can't recall the name brand....JLK or some such thing. It was a 25 grain,.224 bullet, some alloy,was not one of the short abbreviated things like the fly weight stubby bullets we think of for 22 calibers. It was fairly long,hollowpoint affair. He stoked the hornet case with a given load of "power pistol" powder,and out of a 26" barreled low wall, achieved an honest 4,000 fps out of a damned hornet!
No real point to this post, just talking about the hornet,made me recall it:) I love the 22 hornet, great little round,with more use than many give it credit for. Last winter, I think I used my hornet more than any other rifle, I seem to rotate them every winter, giving each one special time afield.
It's hell being a gun nut isn't it?
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted August 04, 2006 09:27 PM
Even my mother looks at me kinda funny at times, but I still have to ask - "Is there a better looking round than the Hornet?"
I shoot one a bit and think the world of it.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted August 04, 2006 09:41 PM
Something cool about it huh Joe:) Ive had several over the years,and now have a CZ 527, that is the cats ass in my book. Something about the classic stock design on the CZs that fits me perfectly.
The hornet just seems to have fallen out of favor,and Im not sure why? Well; I take that back, I know why, I just don't know why:)
It has plenty of poop to take any predator at calling distance,and even reach out a bit if needed. It does all that, relatively quietly,with little to no recoil,and quite accurately.
Ive tried a bunch of different bullets,and finally settled on the Sierra 40 grain soft point hornet bullet, great shooter. Powder wise, I like AA1680, lit with a small pistol primer, that combination gives me honest sub moa groups, Ive fired several that hover around 1/2", so I have no complaints.
What are you shooting?
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted August 05, 2006 07:43 AM
I own the Humble Hornet - an H&R Model 152 (I think) single shot, full length stock. It is actually a neat looking little rifle. It is an honest one inch-ish rifle at 100 yards.
I've only killed a few called coyotes with it, and a few more snooping around where they should not have been. No problem with the way it handled them.
The rifle was bought for about $150, including 100 rounds and a 6X Bushnell.
I also bought 150 rounds of winchester 45gr. SP's at $12/50 at a store that was trying to dump them because they could not sell them. For the way that I shoot a rifle like this that supply held me for many years, so I have done little loading. The few that I loaded were with 4198 that I had on hand to play with some 40 gr. stuff in 223, I used bulk Win 45's.
I have recently picked up a can of Lil' Gun to try out because of the good press it gets.
I was eyeing one of the CZ's the other day, a 550, I think. Short 21" barrel. Neat rifle.
Even though I've told myself I'm done buying rifles for a while I could not have passed something like that up if it had been a 22H.
Besides, I think I need one. My "traditional" calling country now has a huntable population of bobcats with an open season, I'm thinking you'd be hard-pressed to come up with better medicine than a hornet.
Posts: 646 | From: Midwest | Registered: Aug 2003
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted August 06, 2006 06:52 PM
I too am a Hornet fan. Haven't taken a coyote with it, but I know its limitations and it could do the job. I will take it calling this winter. Claimbuster has whipped up some loads for me that seem made for this rifle. I dread shooting anything other than his recipe.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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tawnoper
Knows what it's all about
Member # 497
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posted August 08, 2006 07:45 AM
Another fan of the hornet here. I own a little #3 Ruger single shot that I've had since I was a kid. It has the same 2.5x Weaver that's been on it forever. I still take it out occasionally to jump shoot jacks out in dez. Great little round & rifle.
Posts: 53 | From: socal | Registered: Jan 2005
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JoeF
resides "back east"
Member # 228
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posted August 09, 2006 01:03 PM
NASA, what rifle model?
Tawnoper, I've handled one of those #3's in Hornet. Pretty nice.
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted August 09, 2006 04:52 PM
Just your basic 77/22H, with a fixed 6X Burris I got from Vic. It's a killer combo.
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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bajabug
Knows what it's all about
Member # 919
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posted August 12, 2006 11:48 PM
I Have the same question as claimbuster, only reguarding 44mag. Can I use large pistol primers in a Ruger Carbine ninty six with 18 inch barrel? I Want to use rounds loaded for pistol using Unique powder and a 250 gr. lead bullet. Better to ask a dumb question now, then make a dumb mistake later.
Good and safe Hunting, Emilio Pico Rivera, Ca. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posts: 34 | From: Pico Rivera, Ca. | Registered: Aug 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted August 13, 2006 07:03 AM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, bajabug. Glad to have you on board.
If your firing pin is strong enough, and you work up the load with Unique and that particular bullet, then I see no reason why you couldn't use the rifle primer?
....I just don't know why you would want to do it?
"I Want to use rounds loaded for pistol"
That statement confuses me as to your purpose?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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bajabug
Knows what it's all about
Member # 919
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posted August 13, 2006 09:51 AM
Leonard,
Just wanted to know if I could use the same round interchangeably between rifle and pistol and carry only one load. The fireing pin spring should be strong enough, just wondered if it might be too strong for pistol primers.
Posts: 34 | From: Pico Rivera, Ca. | Registered: Aug 2006
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bajabug
Knows what it's all about
Member # 919
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posted August 13, 2006 10:22 PM
[EMAIL][/EMAIL]
Posts: 34 | From: Pico Rivera, Ca. | Registered: Aug 2006
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted August 21, 2006 09:51 PM
quote:
Claimbuster has whipped up some loads for me that seem made for this rifle. I dread shooting anything other than his recipe.
What NASA failed to mention is how much he is helping me by shooting these reloads. I am a fanatic reloader. I reload for the sake of reloading. If I could get around the liability issue, I would meet all of you somewhere up in Wyoming and pass out FREE ammo. But then we live in a world of "ambulance chasers" who when they tire run for the U.S. Senate.
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
Posts: 70 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2006
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NASA
Knows what it's all about
Member # 177
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posted August 22, 2006 10:42 AM
I've got another couple hundred rounds of brass ready for your magic. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1168 | From: Typical White Person | Registered: Apr 2003
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted August 22, 2006 11:51 PM
I'm ready. Got another 200 loaded to go your way.
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
Posts: 70 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted August 23, 2006 04:44 AM
Claimbuster, I love to reload and seldom have the time. I have a ton to do before fall. Ill send you brass, bullets, powder, a paycheck and sign a waiver, if your interested. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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claimbuster
Knows what it's all about
Member # 904
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posted September 12, 2006 08:57 PM
Andy, sounds like an interesting proposition. However, I will be out of circulation for a while. Shoulder surgery, one again, will keep me away from the reloading bench for a couple of months. Hope to be back at it around Thanksgiving time.
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"There comes a time in the affairs of a man when he has to take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 13, 2006 04:47 AM
Hope your shoulder surgery goes well. Rotator? My wife had that done, its a bitch. Best of luck.
As to the reloading, I had a few days here when I was sick and board and got on it. Ive been loading for five rifles, and if UPS cooperates, and nothing happens so I can get some range time Friday, I will have enough for the whole winter by Friday night. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) Pretty happy about that.
I actually like to reload. Its the time constraints that get to me....
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 13, 2006 04:52 AM
As for primers, heres about as good of an explanation as Ive seen. I was struggling with questions this week and stubled upon this....
http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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