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Author
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Topic: What IS the problem with the Mini-14?
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 02, 2006 04:55 PM
Because a lot of guys know I used to use one for coyotes, I often get the question as to why I quit. Accuracy of course. No big secret. But can someone tell me exactly what the problem is with them? Why are they all so damned inaccurate? Is it the twist? (I've heard their 1:14) The metal used in the barrel? Just what is the root cause of their problem?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted June 02, 2006 08:32 PM
The mini-14 makes one of the best Ranch rifles out there for a couple of simple reasons. Most Ranchers A) Can't shoot worth a damn, and B) Wouldn't take the time to take care of an accurate rifle if they had one.
The ability to put a lot of cheap lead ( I.E. .223 ) into the general direction of a running coyote from a pick up window is all most Ranchers can ask for.
And before anyone gets their panties in a wad, notice I'm saying most Ranchers, definitely not all of them.
Ruger makes some damned fine guns. Their pistols are among my favorites. Come to my house unexpected after dark, and you will see my Blackhawk either in my hand, or on my hip. I love that pistol! The grips are a little small, but I don't need the sights, just look at my target and squeeze.
But Ruger has never been known for making anything accurate. Just look at the Equipment lists at some of the Benchrest matches. You will find a few Ruger actions, most are shot by new shooters, and are found towards the bottoms of the list.
The Mini-14's are nice rifles, as long as you use them for what they are designed to be used for. Stored behind the seat of the truck, and to be shot out the window for the purpose of scaring coyotes off of dead piles.
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted June 02, 2006 08:50 PM
Tim pretty well summed it up. A Mini 14 is like the Remington Nylon 66. You could freeze it, cover it for four years in under the seat crud, never oil it, and it would go bang. Just never in the same place twice.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Nahuatl
Knows what it's all about
Member # 708
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posted June 02, 2006 09:40 PM
Before zero tolerance on the fishing boats, they were the weapon of choice for shooting sharks. Does that count as fish in a barrel?
Posts: 202 | From: Mount Gleason, Angeles NF | Registered: Sep 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted June 03, 2006 01:56 AM
All true, but he wants to know the reason why a Mini 14 is inaccurate? Barrel, action, workmanship, what? LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 03, 2006 04:28 AM
Yes, Leonard, all great points, but structutrally and mechanically, what is their fault that makes them like they are?
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted June 03, 2006 04:51 AM
Semi automatic rifles are designed with large chambers and large tolerances on moving parts. Most likely you can get a .223 cartridge and a coyote in the chamber at the same time.
Bolt lockup is the same way. Lots of room for it to close. May be a family of field mice living in the lug recesses which is why the coyote is in the chamber.
Most likely the trigger pull is about 10# and rougher than a cold cob.
Bedding will be a joke.
These rifles are designed to function with a lot of carbon acccumulation and dirt and grit in them. Accuracy requires exactly the opposite design requirements - everything must be minimum tolerance.
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted June 03, 2006 07:29 AM
Boy, you guys are hard; but I can't dissagree with anything that's been said. I could even add to Tim's post that to 'most' ranchers a coyote running off with a gutfull of lead is just as good as one that tips over in it's tracks; dead.
And yes, my T/C Contender in the carbine configuration will out shoot my Mini-14 any day of the week as will most other rifles.
However, be that as it may; most of the areas that I hunt are either shotgun or close range rifle stands. For me, the Mini-14 works. If I can get it to consistantly hold 2 inch groups, I'm a happy camper. Over the past several seasons the coyotes that I missed were because of two reasons. One was out well past the accurate operating range of the Mini-14. Never should have taken the shot in the first place. The rest I missed because I made a piss poor shot, plain & simple.
So......why are simi auto Mini-14s accuracy challenged & simi auto ARs that shoot sub moa fairly common??
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
Posts: 8231 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rich
2,000th post PAKMAN
Member # 112
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posted June 03, 2006 08:58 AM
Just a guess, but poor quality barrels are probably the main problem. I have noticed that these company's who re-work mini-14's and make em shoot sub M.O.A. are including a new barrel in the price.
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If you call the coyotes in close, you won't NEED a high dollar range finder.
Posts: 2854 | From: Iowa | Registered: Feb 2003
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Buffalobob
Knows what it's all about
Member # 825
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posted June 03, 2006 10:20 AM
kokopelli
The jarheads in RVN reverted back to the M-14s because they would function with the coyote in the chamber and the field mice in the recoil lugs. M-16s had tighter tolerances and had to be kept cleaner which the jarheads would not do. There were also issues with magazine springs rusting up and brass corroding with the M-16s and that was once again handled by only stacking up 17 rounds in a twenty round magazine and not leaving a mag loaded more than two weeks during the rainy season.
On exactly the other hand the M-14 sniper rifles had "national Match barrels", special low tolerance actions and glass bedded stocks and match ammo.
It is all about manufacturing tolerances. A semi-auto that is designed from the ground up to shoot accurately will do so, but you will have to treat it like a precision instrument not some floor board of the pick up truck tool. People buy Ruger 10-22 and mini-14s because of a well earned reputation for not jamming. Not jamming means coyote in the chamber and field mice in the lugs tolerances. Precision machineing means more cost. Hard to have your cake and eat it too.
I have a ruger 10-22 that will not shoot less than MOA but it is a hoot to shoot squirrels with because you don't need MOA accuracy at 10-20 yds
Posts: 90 | From: Potomac River | Registered: Mar 2006
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted June 03, 2006 02:36 PM
Im sure if Jack wasn't gone on yey another cruise, he could chime in and put a face on what mechanically is wrong with the mini platform?
Ive been lucky, twice, with minis,Ive owned maybe a half dozen thru the years, and had two real nice shooting ones come thru my hands.
One was a stock mini, blued steel,and was an honest to goodness inch gun, with the right ammo, the other was a wildcat, 6mm-223, not all that wild, a simple stroke of the sizing die opened the neck up a bump to 6mm....basically what I called a ".243 lite". Was not a smoker, but wow, could that sonofabitch shoot. Work was done by Rifle Accuracy Systems out of texas, great target trigger set up, bedded, good barrel,and a M1A type flash suppressor, and the same winged iron sights, nice rig.
That rifle would shoot tiny little groups with Sierra 85 BTHP. Other than those two particular models, the rest have been the typical mini, fit,finish and function and reliability were good, its always their accuracy that leaves you wanting just a bit more, I always considered the mini to be a 3 inch gun at a 100, but Ive heard guys say a lot worse, mine were never as bad as those I read about?
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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varmit hunter
Knows what it's all about
Member # 37
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posted June 04, 2006 03:16 PM
My Clark custom Gator AR 15 shoots five shot groups into .334, But don't leave it under the truck seat over night.
I am sure if you sent a Mini 14 and $600.00 to the right smith you would get back a half minute rifle, but you would not be able to store a half can of Copenhagen in the chamber any more. In the semiauto world it is give and get. The Colt 1911 is a great example. The ever reliable military issue model carried through many wars would be a total waste of time at any of today's pistol matches.
Accuracy is the result of tight tolerances. Strong reliability is the lack of tight tolerances. If you have something that falls in the middle, and serves you're purpose by all means hang on to it.
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Make them pay for the wind.
Posts: 932 | From: Orange,TX | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted June 04, 2006 04:55 PM
Thanks, guys. Those are good answers with sound reasoning to back them up. Best of all, I think that they're easily understandable by someone (like me) with a bare minimum of understanding about such things.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5440 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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ShooterJohn
PAKMAN
Member # 726
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posted July 04, 2006 03:37 PM
There's an article in the latest Varmint Hunter Magazine about the New and Improved Mini-14. They've change the barrels and the twist is now 1 in 9 and apparently it's helped with the accuracy. I've got an old stainless one I've had accurized but I'd by a new one for the truck. Even the guy that tested it seemed to be able to hit something twice. That's after he figured out the scope screws were loose. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 5 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 04, 2006 06:38 PM
Welcome to the New Huntmasters, ShooterJohn. Glad to have you on board.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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ShooterJohn
PAKMAN
Member # 726
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posted July 04, 2006 10:04 PM
Thank you for the Welcome.
Posts: 5 | From: Sacramento, CA | Registered: Nov 2005
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Jack Roberts
unknown comic
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posted July 04, 2006 10:37 PM
Az-Hunter,
I haven't been on a cruise lately, they take a while to recover from. However I have been entertaining the wife's family for close to 2 weeks for at least some of them. Apparently it was a success as some are threatening to move out West. I probably should not have shown them the good parts?
Jack
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redbonet
PAKMAN
Member # 912
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posted July 29, 2006 09:48 PM
When Ruger first made the Mini 14 it was made for the USA armey spect,s
They had to open up the chamber where it would feed cheep ammo, an when they did that to fix the feeding problum.
Then It would only hold an 6 in Group .
An that was fine for the armey .
But Ruger is comeing out with an new Mini 14 that will hold an 1 in group .
But what that will cost you cam buy an good AR 15 .
Redbone
[ July 29, 2006, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: redbonet ]
Posts: 1 | From: Ark/Olka Border | Registered: Jul 2006
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