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Author
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Topic: best powder for 223 AI?
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 18, 2005 02:35 PM
Got 250 55 grain VMax, no powder, yet?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 18, 2005 03:43 PM
Leonard,
Did you go and break down and buy you a 223AI? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Fun little gun to shoot,I have really enjoyed mine.
I've had good luck with W748 and H335.
Lately, I have been using Benchmark and #1365 sierra's about 3400-3500 Fps out of the muzzle,I've been using it as a backup to my 22-250.
Although I think most if not all of my calling this year I will be testing out my .20 cal. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) GOOD HUNTING Chad
[ September 18, 2005, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 18, 2005 03:57 PM
Thanks Chad, that seems to be a couple powders that keep popping up, both 748 and H335, in addition to 4198. I was wondering about varget, maybe R15? Another mentioned is IMR3031. I need a fireforming load, for the present.
No, not new gun, just a rechamber. It's quite a step backwards for me, I usually like a little more powder capacity. I'm not sure it will kill a coyote, cleanly.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 18, 2005 04:18 PM
Leonard,I can't really tell you how great they are at killing coyotes consistantly as I have only killed a half dozen or so with mine.I had only one runner that I hit in the front shoulder,but that was with a 50 grain hollowpoint.Since I went to the 55 grain #1365 they die fast(bang flop).
As far as a fireforming load I have been using 24 grains of H335 powder with either 50 or 55 grain bullets,they are pretty accurate.Good Luck and GOOD HUNTING Chad
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Tim Behle
Administrator MacNeal Sector
Member # 209
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posted September 19, 2005 05:19 PM
Leonard,
Why don't you just save yourself the disappointment, and go buy a 17 Remington?
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Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take
an ass kickin'.
Posts: 3160 | From: Five Miles East of Vic, AZ | Registered: Jun 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 19, 2005 05:40 PM
Tim, you must believe in fairy tales? Me? Shoot a 17 Remingtom? What a joke!
Hey, I got a good one for you. Bush just nominated Hillary for the Supremes. Really!
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 20, 2005 07:48 PM
This is the test target, emailed to me yesterday by gunsmith. Fireforming, first three shots. Looks promising.
Good hunting. LB
edit: I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong, these pics are supposed to auto resize? Jack is going to be pissed.
[ September 20, 2005, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Todd Woodall
Knows what it's all about
Member # 439
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posted September 20, 2005 08:03 PM
Looks pretty good Leonard. But seriously how could you miss that target, ITS HUGE!!!!
LOL, sorry I had to.
Todd
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Texas Predator Pursuit videos
110 hunts on 2 DVD's
www.texaspredatorpursuit.com
Posts: 181 | From: Weatherford Texas | Registered: Nov 2004
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 20, 2005 08:22 PM
FedEx says it's in North Salt Lake, right now.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 21, 2005 05:46 AM
Prolly be too much trouble for me to run over there and screw a respectable .17 barrel on it... If it's still in NSL though, it's within not more than 10 miles of me as I type.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 21, 2005 10:42 AM
It's worth a try, Dave. Tell them I said it was okay.
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 21, 2005 01:12 PM
Not bad groups for fireforming.But if your going to change barrels go with the .20 cal ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 22, 2005 08:13 AM
As far as discussions of esoteric differences in cartridges for predator calling go, I think the comparison between the .20's and the .17's is among the more interesting. Especially when comparing cartridges both based on the .223 case.
My only experience with a .20 is the .20BR I built a few years ago. And I only used it on a couple of coyotes, with a load that definitely wasn't good for coyotes (32 Vmax, 4500 fps). Built it for p-dogs, more than anything, and it does real well for that.
But...
I got a phone call from a fellow yesterday. Seems he had Greg Tannel build him a really nice custom Tac .20, but he can't do any loading or testing with his new rifle because of health problems. Long story short, he called Tannel to find somebody who could do the rifle justice in tuning it and working up loads, so the rifle is coming my way. After I finish load work, I'll go whack a couple coyotes with it, to make sure the bullet/velocity I come up with for him is really working like it should.
Looking forward to getting this chance to work with the Tac .20, as from all I've seen and heard, it's the .20 I'd choose if I was going to build one for predator calling.
Myself, I'm just extremely pleased with the performance I'm getting from my new .17 Predator (pic below is from my first day using it last weekend). But will certainly be interested to see how the .20 compares.
The .20 will have a slight edge in energy, where my .17P has a slight edge in trajectory and wind. Really, the numbers on paper are close enough to call sixes, for my purposes. As the extra energy of the .20 isn't needed for my application, but then the flatter trajectory and less wind drift of the .17 isn't enough to really make a difference. So actual field performance will really be interesting to me.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 08:26 AM
Thanks for the pic, Dave. (nice looking stuff, behind you)
Before I get all interested in 17 or 19 ot 20 caliber, I'd like to see some heavier bullets and reports on long range performance. It's still the golf bag approach, is it not?
Good hunting. LB
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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pup
Knows what it's all about
Member # 90
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posted September 22, 2005 09:18 AM
A while back I traded for a .223AI. Sako,L461. I used H335 and 748. The H335 works a little better with the 55gr, through this gun.
I have pretty much used the Tac. 20, mainly just to make me get used to it, but this year I am going to have to take the .223AI out for a hunt or two.
later pup
Posts: 213 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2003
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted September 22, 2005 10:34 AM
I agree with you DAA about the 32 grain vmax not being a good coyote bullet.I have been working up a load for the 35 grain bergers for my .204 ruger.Settled on 28 grains H4895,It shoots a .4 inch 5 shot group.Graphed it at 3900fps.Hope it will make a good coyote load this fall.Looks like you're not having any problems killing coyotes with that 17 predator. GOOD HUNTING Chad
[ September 22, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posts: 1708 | From: Utah | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 10:59 AM
PS, where was that photo taken?
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 22, 2005 03:26 PM
I thought that would be just incredibly obvious Leonard. I mean, a pile of cleanly killed coyotes, and a .17, it HAS to be Texas, right?
Naaw... That's an hour from my house, here in Utah.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 03:36 PM
Looks more like NV to me? 5 coyotes.
Tell me about your longer clean shots/kills with the 17 Predator? Bullet? Never had a runner?
Good hunting. LB
[ September 22, 2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted September 22, 2005 04:07 PM
That's the only day I've had it out calling so far. So, not a lot to tell yet. I'm using a 30 gr. bullet (BC = .270), at 4060 fps.
Longest shot was the first one, 250 yards, adult that weighed right at 30 pounds, standing broadside, hit perfect, bang-flop no exit.
Hit two that were running, with less than perfect shot placement. One hit the liver and clipped both lungs before exiting the offside ribcage with a quarter sized hole. She went about 20 feet, before going down. Went down where I couldn't see her so I just jumped up and ran over there, dead as a stone when I arrived. Other poor hit was a really poor hit. High front leg hit, between elblow and shoulder. Blew the leg off almost completely, it was hanging on by only a thread of skin. Deep nasty gash/wound across the throat, whether from bone fragment or bullet I don't know. Second, anchoring shot required. Others were close and easy, and text book .17 - bang flop no exit.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
Posts: 2676 | From: Salt Lake City, UT | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 05:26 PM
quote:
Longest shot was the first one, 250 yards, adult that weighed right at 30 pounds, standing broadside, hit perfect, bang-flop no exit.
That's the one I'm interested in. Pretty average Nevada shot, but I always thought it was beyond the abilities of the 17 Remington. Especially at night, you don't want to have to look for a runner. Of course, my experience was way back when the only bullet available was the 25 Hornady. But, it left me with the distinct impression that the Javalina, MK4, or the Remington were 150 yard guns. Opinions are hard to change.
Be sure and tell us more, as you get more.
Good hunting. LB
(an hour from SLC, right?)
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted September 22, 2005 08:43 PM
Leonard, Im going to have to drag my 17 Rem along for the hunt, so I can have you use it one morning. We can purposely, call one short, and have you get a long shot, so you can see the results. Ive killed more than a couple at the 300 yard mark, and one or two beyond, although Im a proponent of calling them in close, before yanking the trigger, but I always figured the 17 was sufficient out to 300.
You know my opinion on runners, regardless of what caliber you shoot, if you shoot enough coyotes, your going to have a runner. The bang/flop scenario differs more in regards to where, the coyote was hit, versus what, the coyote was hit with. A shot to the liver/rear lung area usually results with a death sprint, whether it was hit with a 17rem or a 25-06.
In my experience using the 17rem, and mine has several hundred under its belt, if I shoot a coyote center chest on a facing shot, or high and tight behind the shoulder on a broadside shot, I can usually count on a bang flop,most others, as long as vitals are hit, result in a spin and flop, or a short 20 yard run.
Ive seen coyotes hit with much bigger cannons, run a lot farther:)
Posts: 1670 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted September 22, 2005 09:21 PM
CHEAP SHOT! CHEAP SHOT!
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 32361 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Rich Higgins
unknown comic
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posted September 22, 2005 09:28 PM
DAA, my wife's step sister lives in Twin Falls and has a coyote problem that I volunteered you to solve
Good place to wring out that gun.
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted September 23, 2005 05:15 AM
Leonard,
My 223AI (the cannon), likes H335 as well. Thats behind a 52gr Amax. Killed alot of coyotes with it. Shoots alot like a 250, but with less exits and damage, on average. Great gun, in my book.
I was gonna sell it. But, my son loves to shoot it. Im going to keep it for him. More forgiving than the smaller calibers. When he gets older, he can graduate on down. I like shooting it as well.
Andy
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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