quote:

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I don't post as I don't feel I have anything to add to the conversations that I read most of the time.

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quote:

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I just don't have anything to add to the topics in which I am reading and learning from.

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The whole issue goes far beyond what you are obviously aware of so my personal views wouldn’t make a lick of sense to you. What makes you think that I owe you an explanation anyway? Being a self-proclaimed “know nothing jackass” and all? I admire your honesty though. Now all you have to do is convince your gal-pal ScottF that you two are one in the same. I mean your posts are really about Scott right? After all you guys are buddies and I have made it no secret that I think he is a dipshit.

I am not jealous BTW. I have been offered prostaff positions or the like from a few different companies but respectively declined. I figure I don’t have the years or the miles to be a real pro. It would be silly of me to go masquerading around the Internet and the country when there are so many hunters out there that have far greater qualifications. I would be like the guy that comes home and tells his friends he is an aquatic-engineer. It is an important sounding title but in the end he is just a water boy for the girls volleyball team.

And no I don’t think that posting pictures and sharing a story about a hunt is the same thing as making a running add campaign out of every coyote I kill. This season I have only made one post with pics. That was of the 77 coyotes we got in Texas. I have literally shot more coyotes in one fur season than your buddy Scott has in his life. I consider myself a lowly student of the game so I guess you can say that he tweaks me a little with his know it all attitude.

He doesn’t know enough yet to know he doesn’t know enough yet. LOL

Have a good one.

Q,
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 06, 2009, 02:39 PM:
 
Very good post Q..How true your statements are indeed.

I remember years ago after the first hundred or so coyotes I shot,I thought I was pretty damn good.Now I look back almost 20 years later and almost laugh.....The longer I call coyotes the more I realize how little I KNOW,and how many other guys are well beyond what I think is good.

But with the Internet you can be a "ROCKSTAR" overnite.lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 06, 2009, 03:07 PM:
 
Q, I would have to talk to Cal, but I think we could probably work you in a pro staff position with Leg Humpers Inc. I mean if you think your up to it....

Chad, ole buddy, you want in too? Hows your leg humpin, fist pumpin and end zone dancin these days?
 

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Posted by tawnoper (Member # 497) on January 06, 2009, 03:20 PM:
 
Very well said Q...

Recently it seems more and more guys are getting into predator calling solely to make a name for themselves. A nice day out calling and enjoying just the anticipation of something maybe coming in seems lost to them. Most of the time after I read one of their posts I come away wondering if they even enjoyed it. It seems their whole objective is shoot an animal, take pics and rush home to make a post on 3-4 sites...a little beyond just sharing IMO. I get so burned out on the fantasy football, paintball mentality of constantly keeping score as a way of determining who's winning or better... "I've shot 50 coyotes since Nov"... who gives a shit! I didn't know we were having a contest.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good hunt story with nice pics as much as anyone. Some of you guys occasionally post stories and I'm first in line to read them...but, I'm just burnt on the guys (who are obvious to many people) that are posting for self promotion, they post EVERYTHING they shoot along with the caller (which is always listed in their signiture anyway). If they want to promote the caller...just post a pic of IT, you dont need to be kneeling down next to it, everyone knows they work. Also, no need to give out helpful tips or answer questions that nobody asked in the majority of their posts. Okay, rant over lol.

[ January 16, 2009, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: tawnoper ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 06, 2009, 04:02 PM:
 
Andy,

That's sounds like a really great offer,but I don't know if I have enough "EXPERIENCE"....

In the field of leg humping,fist pumping,and end zone dancing that is.

Ah, what the hell count me in......lol

Good Hunting Bud

Chad
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 06, 2009, 04:50 PM:
 
"I have literally shot more coyotes in one fur season than your buddy Scott has in his life."

Q,

I was with you, up to that point, but then, as Tawnoper said, "so what... who gives a shit?"

That doesn't make you any less of an ass, than ladder boy or his lapdog, in fact, I think it makes you look worse.

While you were rubbing their noses in it, you got some on you, and now you stink just like they do.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2009, 04:54 PM:
 
Yes, but it's a good stink. I mean a different stink, not the same as Loony Tunes, for sure.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 06, 2009, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on January 06, 2009, 05:12 PM:
 
If you've done it; it's not bragging, it's just a fact. Nothing wrong with Q making that point.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 06, 2009, 05:23 PM:
 
Im bout as far from self premotion as you can get, and this thread has my name on it. Cant we start a new one. Its making me look bad to all my fans,lol. Just kiddin. I used to post every kill 4 years ago or so but then I didnt really have any chance I figured at a career in this industry. Well I matured a bit and quit posting alot. Now that I am in this industry and it pays some of my bills and I depend on it some, I think it is even more important not to self premote. I have to post my seminars and answer a few questions now and then on some boards due to us being advertisers and its my job to be a customer service rep, i guess you could say. With this being said and I have said this before to some of you," Why cant I be different than some of the others?" Would it hurt to have a Prostaffer admit hes not the best or the most knowledgable, but maybe good at talking and speeking to people of a high number in attendance? I think maybe just teaching what you know and not have a whore like mentality will get you pretty far in this industry. I can say I got here by not kissing ass, but by accident. The head videographer seen some of my stuff and liked it. Here i am, Pro Staff member to H.S. Its just me Steve Criner,a fist pumping,end zone dancin hill boy that likes callin coyotes. No leg humpin" though. I guess though if I shot 100 plus a year instead of 15 to 30 I might not dance so much. Surely I would have twisted my back out by now,lol.

Now lets start a new thread.....without my name on it,lol.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 06, 2009, 05:43 PM:
 
Just keep reminding yourself, Steve, that there's no such thing as bad publicity. Britney Spears can still find work, so bad publicity never hurt her, despite her best efforts.

So what if four or five people take exception to what you do. 300,000+ others seem to be okay with you.

[ January 06, 2009, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Cdog911 ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 06, 2009, 05:58 PM:
 
Leonard,

I don't think there is a good stink... good smells, and bad stinks.

Q lowered himself by taking the "numbers killed" shot, and that wasn't "a good thing", so he stinks (IMO).

Otherwise, Vic, I was with Q on most of his points made.

Steve,

At least this thread has your name, and something you're doing...

Do a search and see how many "Krusty" threads there are.

It's a tough gig, being under the microscope, eh?

Krusty
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 06, 2009, 06:13 PM:
 
Krusty, Actually I dont feel Im under the scope. I really dont think this is directed to me really. I think it is all in fun. Just some dont take it well. I kinda like it, I feel special.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 06, 2009, 06:20 PM:
 
Andy, Q can join up anytime, but I thought him and Scott were the anti-humpers and our direct competition? But if Q wants to jump ship already it's ok by me! I've seen others do the same.

Steve, your OK by me, I don't care what the rest of these guys say. Your honest and direct and if you are getting to do what you want and doing a good job at it then more power to you.

I couldn't do it and I've kind of proven it to myself. I'm not the sharing, teaching, helping type.
 

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Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on January 06, 2009, 06:31 PM:
 
This thread is not about Scott.

Scott can dig his own grave and fight his own battles.

I had this same conversation with Jay Nistetter when I asked him to take me hunting. I think after meeting me Jay understands where I'm coming from on this.

Scott is who got me into predator hunting. We have been friends for 8 years. This does not mean we are of one mind. If you think and act like all of your friends do then your a dipshit.

We differ on so many things its not even funny, however we agree on being friends.

I find it funny that many of you can not see past that.

This thread is about exactly the questions I asked. Me, Andrew Kerns. Not Scott or anyone else. I listen to the things that are said, I read this forum, PM and Monster. I just started posting here and typically only post on Predator Masters. As it is geared for a newer guy like myself in my opinion. This site is filled with guy like you Q who have killed more coyotes then I will probably ever see. Thus why I like to read what goes on here. I dont think I'm entitled to anything, I simply asked a question and tried to explain my reasoning behind question.

No hidden agenda's, no secret conspiracy's and not other motives beyond my own curiosity.

I'm an open book, feel free to call me and chat with me if you ever cared enough to waste that time 480-202-7033

I would love to hunt with most all of you, I like to learn and want to pick up as much as I can. I really do my best to stay out of the drama. Being friends with who I am has lumped me into some of it and I the only thing I'm upset about is that people like to lump me in as a clone to his thinking. I don't know how to make it any more clear to anyone that we don't share a brain.

To be more direct as to the intention of this thread, I have read in other posts where people nit pick and bash on Byron South before. Now this "joking" thread about Steve Criner and of course have read tons of jokes about Tim Lewis. There are some others but it gets boring sitting and naming this or that. That is all my point is. It seems to me that people on these forums are quick to put down these people, proclaim their inability to do anything right and bash them for whatever reasons. I was wondering why. So I asked the question.

Last time I checked Scott didnt have a DVD comming out and his name isnt Steve. And that was what my question was referring too.

I am honest about myself so I appreciate you seeing that Q. I am young, eager to learn and want to gather as much information about my chosen hobby as possible. I have obsessive compulsive disorder when it comes to my hobbies and treat them like a job. I have been blessed that my wife is not materialistic and is happy with the meager life I provide for her. This allows me to take more time then normal people can and dive into my hobbies. I fully admit that I know less then 1% of what you do about predator hunting. But I have a good memory, study allot and hunt more then some "pro's" do. I'm doing my best to close that gap and understand it will take years upon years to do so.

With that said, as I eluded too in my earlier post is even with my tiny little bit of knowledge, I can take a recreational predator hunter out and show them the things I have learned. These things will increase their chance of success and they will have learned something from me. That was the point I was trying to make with these guys making DVD's, and more to the point Stever Criner and his seminar. Will you gain anything from it? Probably not, will LB miss anything by reorganizing his sock drawer vs going to this? Probably not. But I really think we can agree that the general run of the mill recreational predator hunter that will attend such a seminar will learn something. And that is a positive in my opinion.

I don't think I'm going to "win" anything by my posting here, and I don't think that I will even get many of you too see where I'm coming from. But I'm going to try and explain myself and in the process with probably get my questions answered. Which will continue my education in this world.

LB, for the record. I don't care if you ban hammer every single person I know and will ever meet. I don't subscribe to any conspiracies or drama. I hear it, I read it and that's about it. Until you piss in my cheerio's you ok with me. I dont feel better about myself for my posts here, it is not some cheap form of therapy. I asked a question, tried to explain myself and then responded in the way I know how to what was said. Beyond that, there is no other agenda.

If any of you are ever in the Valley of the Sun, consider yourselves invited to dinner and beer. I mean that, my number is there. Call and find out in person my motivations.

Thanks for reading the latest installment of my novel.

Andrew
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 06, 2009, 06:36 PM:
 
3toes, u still guiding antelope hunts? Kinda off topic I know
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 06, 2009, 07:44 PM:
 
Andrew strikes me as being something of an Ante-Leonard. How can you not like the guy?!?
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on January 06, 2009, 07:53 PM:
 
I love the internet, you only have to type in expert to be one!!!!!!

Andy and Cal get it straight your "THE NEW HUMPMASTERS" I got a ton of money stuck in the hats and Tshirts!!!!

Q, just say what's on your mind for once!!!
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2009, 08:40 PM:
 
Auntie Leonard probably should have cut this guy off right away? He thinks he is asking innocent questions but he has a friggin' agenda a mile long and a chip on his shoulder just as wide.

And, if he contradicts me one more time about any of the above, he will get what he apparently wants.

But, let me correct one detail. This guy thinks I run this place for the pleasure of banning as many as possible. I suppose this is because he is friends with about half of the members that have lost their posting privilages.

HEADLINE: WHY IS LB BANNING EVERYBODY? Why not ask me, cranky? Instead, you write a chickenshit post over in the psychiatric ward.

Now, why do you suppose I might suspend posting privilages? Is it because somebody starts ragging on Quinton Waggoner? Not really.

Usually, it's because they insist on pissing me off for one reason or another. Now, would you rather have the PMS inner sanctum vote you off the island for violating their terms of service; or, just avoid pissing me off? I don't require leg humping and ass kissing, just avoid intentionally pissing me off.

That's as plain as I can make it. I am not a King Hell Dictator, but somebody has to make decisions and take the heat and I promise, I can take that heat. There is a hundred crybabies over on monster that hate my guts and I have one guy that sticks up for me. I appreciate it. But, I can handle 100 to 1 odds just fine, as long as I can't do anything about it, I ignore it.

I can do something about it here, especially when it is unneeded and nobody asked this Crusader to stick his nose into something that doesn't concern him and he does not understand. (remember Sport, don't contradict me)

My suggestion is that you do what you said you wanted to do; get back to lurking and quit stiring shit.

By the way, we know you are Andrew, a fine name, I might add, my father's middle name as well as my grandson's middle name. But what's your call sign over in the padded room? Oh shit, never mind! It would be a lot better if you don't answer because you have already pissed me off in every post so far and you are running out of ( have run out of) Papal Dispensations.

My advice is that you take a break and when you return in a week or two, your post should be very cordial in tone. That means friendly. You aren't going to change anything around here, so quit wasting our time with your laundry lists of injustices. Are we clear? LB
 

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Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on January 06, 2009, 08:49 PM:
 
Hey Criner, You know you have to go through Ohio to get to Jay's in Michigan....Stop by and have a few beer's and shoot some coyotes with me!!

JD
 

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Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on January 06, 2009, 08:52 PM:
 
I too love the internet, people get to say things they wouldn't say to another persons face.

And no that is not a challenge or question of manhood for some of you. I'm sure some of you are resisting the temptation to type "I would say all of this to your face right now". That's just great, your tough, you can fight and I'm sure your penis is bigger then mine too. Just don't tell my wife because I have her fooled into thinking I am all that is man. I have just seen many people post smart ass, rude, insinuating things on various forums boards then when standing face to face with them, a nicer guy couldn't be found.

I ask questions that are perceived as dumb by many, ie my "experienced" thread over on PM. It's a question, I asked it and will take whatever "E" abuse comes with it. This thread seems to provoke some of those same feelings. Yet again when I ask these same types of questions to people in person, I get nothing but kind, constructive answers that help me learn. If all you guys that are knowledgeable just keep to yourself and poke fun at the new guys, how are we supposed to learn?

I also love the internet because I have been able to meet and hunt with some of the more "experienced" guys in the industry. Organizing hunts like this in yesteryear would have been down right impossible. Now they are just a PM away. This also has helped me greatly in learning some of the in's and out's of this sport.

This Saturday is an example that is on topic for this thread. I'm taking out a father son team that posted on PM that they have been out calling several times and haven't even seen an animal. As they are local I PM'd them as said I would take them out and show them what little I know. Do I deserve a bronze star? No, but I want to try and return the favor to people that know even less then my know nothing ass does. That's my personality. Maybe time will show me to become jaded and un-trusting, but for now I'm going to continue to blessed by ignorance and try to help others out as others have helped me.

That's what I'm in this for, meeting new people, fun,learning and did I mention fun. I dont like to hunt alone. I know allot of guys do and have more success that way, but for me being with others is part of the experience that I find enjoyable. I mean come on, I need a witness for my fist pumping? It can be very hard to capture a proper fist pump by yourself while holding the camera with the other arm. You just don't quite capture the essence of the moment that way.

Well I'm off to watch Biggest loser with the wife. Something about watching fat people get while eating a bowl of ice cream entertains me. I just keep telling the wife that I'm working out for next years audition.

Good times.
 

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Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on January 06, 2009, 08:58 PM:
 
Wow, guess LB and myself were typing at the same time. I finished another long winded novel and then hit reply to see your post LB.

Not trying to contradict you, not trying to piss you off, trying to do the exact opposite.

Please tell me my agenda?

My screen name on Monster is "Stalin". I have 4 posts since the site went live.

And dont plan on having many more.

My email address is kernsplumbing@gmail.com

Would you please email me my agenda if you dont wish to post it here. Or if you would take time out of your day would you call me 480-202-7033 and tell me my agenda?

I honestly dont have one.

I am friends with Scott F. I consider Rich Higgins a friend. As do I his son Tyler. Do you think they approve of my posts here?

Scott infact called me earlier and said I was an idiot for these posts. Not stopping me is it.

I'm not out to get you sir, quite the contrary. I dont know what I can to do to convince you of that.

Ok, now off to the fat people.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2009, 09:00 PM:
 
perfect
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 06, 2009, 09:01 PM:
 
JD they are flying me out Fri and back on sunday. I guess I could just drop in!!!HE get it. That would kinda suck though.
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 06, 2009, 09:02 PM:
 
Andrew,

I wish I was half as cool as you think you are.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2009, 09:03 PM:
 
now, get lost until we call you.
 

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Posted by J. Piatt (Member # 2827) on January 06, 2009, 09:15 PM:
 
Steve, If you decide to drop in....drop in at the neighbors...LOL

Have fun and don't bullshit em..Maybe I'll load the ol'lady up in the truck and take her for a ride...

JD
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 06, 2009, 09:28 PM:
 
QUESTION

quote:

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If all you guys that are knowledgeable just keep to yourself and poke fun at the new guys, how are we supposed to learn? kodiak61

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ANSWER:
By getting out and learning by trial and error.There are NO shortcuts to being a successful caller.Hard work,persistence,and patience.

I think the problem with sharing alot of calling info on the net,is that some newbie gets a few helpful hints,then six months later he's got a dvd out and/or a line of custom calls he's trying to push.

Good Hunting Chad

edit: sorry, Chad. Excellent reply but I just wanted to make it that much easier to understand.

[ January 08, 2009, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 06, 2009, 10:14 PM:
 
Boy Chad,

You nailed me...

It wasn't six months, but I was making custom calls within a year or so. LOL

People (other than me) are still killing critters with them, so where's "the problem"?

Call making and predator hunting, aren't mutually exclusive, though.
They are, (IMO) unrelated.

Krusty

P.S. I was gonna make a video... six hours of jungle scenery... and not a single coyote in it!

Not Coming to the Call with Krusty
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 06, 2009, 10:30 PM:
 
Guilty Conscience Krusty? LOL

I mentioned no names......

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 06, 2009, 10:47 PM:
 
What gets me is this "blind leading the blind" where a generous newbie takes out another one who seems grateful, then devoures your areas and whines like a spoiled brat for more. There is so much information freely given, on the Internet that these guys demand every last crumb of information and act as though it's a God given right.

I do my share, I guarantee. But, it's the attitude that frosts my ass. I've killed my share, too, but that doesn't stop some punk from making snide remarks about how many animals he has killed and that he goes out every week. After over forty years, I don't need to kill coyotes every week. Sometimes, it's enough just to talk about it or read what others have done, lately. That doesn't make me a has been, to anybody besides punk asses.

I give enormous credit to people that instruct and take the new guy out and teach him what the hell is going on. Without Higgins showing Scott F or Robb Krause how it's done, they would struggle. There is no question about it.

Okay, now they know a few things, thanks to the generosity of an old pro. Now, if we can believe what he says; he takes new guys out every weekend. What a swell guy! Now that new guy volunteers to take out a couple other hunters that are getting nowhere. Not long from now, those new guys will be taking out their brother in law and the next week, his next door neighbor.

What have we here? Well, we have the fastest growing type of huntig in the United States today, that's what we have here.

And, is there enough to go around, or not? Is blanketing the country with Foxpros a swell idea? I question that. Condemn me for it, but I think the is too much dilution of the brand and good old Steve, who is really a good humored man, he is teaching seminars about what little he has learned in the past few years. He deserves credit for sharing his knowledge, but what about those old farts that have learned the hard way, trail blazing and sharing, here and there? Like Cal Taylor said above, he ain't much on teaching and I don't have to wonder why.

We can only stick so many straws in the rootbeer before we are all slurping the suds on the bottom.

Okay, you have to cultivate the future of the sport, but this information giveaway is exploding in front of our eyes. There is virtually no place right now where you can blow a call to virgin eared coyotes, unless they are just out of the den.

I am careful who I personally share what I know about huntig predators. Others, like Higgins, like to hunt with everybody. Whatever.

So, now we have arrived at the real purpose of Huntmasters. It's no secret that we attract hunters that ain't at their first rodeo. Experienced wolfers talking shop is what it's all about, and the punks should probably sit on the porch and absorb what they can without looking like a fool. But don't be demanding information and knock off the pontificating. There are a lot of newbies that know how to learn by paying attention and the punks are giving the rest of them a bad name.

I learned what I know the hard way. Why do these new guys think the world owes them a living?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by RagnCajn (Member # 879) on January 06, 2009, 11:06 PM:
 
Tee Ball
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 07, 2009, 12:08 AM:
 
Chad,

No way dude, not one speck of guilt here.

Since the real meat of "the problem" is prematurely declaring oneself a star, selling or giving away knowledge that isn't theirs without consent or giving credit, and "pushing a line of calls", I doubt I have anything to worry about.

Like Q, I was with you on all your points, except the one (but after re-reading the "pushing" part, I might even be with you on that too )

Leonard,

Part of not knowing anything, includes not knowing that the spirit of mentorship, that exists in most other sports, isn't as prevalent in hunting (and predator hunting is the extreme of that (IMO)).

Now that I know enough, to know to what I don't know, I know that.

And, if I carry any guilt over anything, it's that I came into this believing that somebody did owe me.
*Andrew reminds me of the old me, and that's no compliment to either of us.
**But it does show there might be some hope for the guy.

It's funny, I saw Mercer's pictures (on CRU), but I wasn't going to say I thought I recognized where it was, and the next time I open the thread... you did!
I was totally shocked to see you "given it away"... and so was HE!
*He changed photos... didn't he.

Cal says he's not a teacher, but he's taught me plenty (about call making and making call sounds, setting snares, gang setting, getting the whole job done... and much much more)

Krusty
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 07, 2009, 06:07 AM:
 
Steve, I am still outfitting. Mostly archery hunts. I can e-mail you if you need some info.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 07, 2009, 07:18 AM:
 
Please send it Cal to scriner1@yahoo.com

Leonard, Iwas coyote hunting before I found this place.What aboutthe 9 or 10years before I could afford the internet? I speak of the whole season of not calling any coyotes due to me noy knowing better in my seminars. That was several yrs ago but I still remember how stupid I was.you know before I went to my first HM campout I can count on 1 hand how many folks I took calling. Trust me none of them were callers just friends.now I kinda figure you can learn on the net but if u aint done it u can't do it.So my point being if I just learned this in the past couple years I'm doing good. U can't make this shit up and u know it.yes I've learned a lot about bio the last few years but I don't speak on coyote bioligy I speak on calling and hunting coyotes. Simple stuff. With ur last post I feel your perception of me is all wrong.

Oh and if you don't mind climbing mountains and wading in knee deep snow I could show u some virgin coyotes. Just thought I'd offer.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 07, 2009, 08:06 AM:
 
LB, u can ignore that last post if u want.I'm having a bad mornin and bout forgot I don't give to craps anyway what folks think. Sry for the false alarm.I should maintain myself better.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 09:39 AM:
 
I don't know you hardly at all, Steve. One weekend at the campout a few years ago. If I have the wrong impression, I guess I get it from your friend's teasing you on HM? As to helping me find a virgin eared coyote, I was speaking in generalities, but thanks for offering to help out an old geezer.

By the way, I got an email last night from our new friend, Kodiak. He says he will take a break, as advised and wishes to clear up misunderstandings, and apologize if needed, which it is not.

I think that what Quinton is doing is perhaps the truest form of our chosen sport and I envy him. That's on one level, of course, on another I don't miss the fur boom days a bit. But when a whippersnapper came in here with an initial post and lectured this guy, I became annoyed. Especially since I understood Quinton's attitude very well.

Okay, now we are told that Steve is a seasoned veteran and I have the wrong impression. My mistake, I keep thinking of Byron and his 30+ years of experience, etc.

Q is probably jealous because Steve gets free gear? (just kidding)

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 07, 2009, 09:57 AM:
 
LB, kodiak is on his own I don't even jnow him. As for me I get teased a lot but I think I bring it on my self. I don't think one can be a seasoned vetran in 14yrs but me and most hre will agree that in 14 yrs your just realizing the big picture. Thanks for the conversation.

PS. I just mentioned the virgins coyotes because I think it would be a good time.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 11:30 AM:
 
Okay, Steve. Your call. I'm just thinking of Byron and perhaps his experience is in dog years? lol

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 07, 2009, 12:08 PM:
 
Krusty,

For the record I wasn't thinking of you when I made my post.

Leonard:There is virtually no place right now where you can blow a call to virgin eared coyotes, unless they are just out of the den.

Leonard,

You are probably right about that,but in some places in Nevada I would swear you are mistaken,which I'm sure you Know where I am talking about.Some of the dumbest easy to call coyotes on the earth.LOL

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 01:14 PM:
 
Dang, Chad! Let's keep this kind of info between you and me!
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 07, 2009, 01:16 PM:
 
Calvin, if you dont mind, email me some bow huntin info too. I want to take my boy on a archery hunt somewhere. Hes gettin pretty good with his bow.

andylaughlin@hughes.net

Remember, were partners...
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 07, 2009, 01:29 PM:
 
Leonard:Dang, Chad! Let's keep this kind of info between you and me!


Leonard,

That's why I just said "Nevada".LOL That's alot of country to find some dumb easy to call coyotes,you could get lost for days trying to find some.

Gawd,getting lost in Nevada for days looking for coyotes. I think I need to plan a little trip West.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 02:30 PM:
 
Checking the padded room, I'm surprised that Giggles has not cut and pasted anything in the thread, thus far. Kodiak does a little recap then Fruit Loops does his best to stir the shit.

quote:

---

By the way, I got an email last night from our new friend, Kodiak. He says he will take a break, as advised and wishes to clear up misunderstandings, and apologize if needed, which it is not. LB

---

We are constantly reminded this dude is forty years old? I can't imagine what it would take to get banned from a friggin' paint ball forum! Stalin is free to post here, I just wish he would move on to a different subject and act like he wants to be accepted. Oh, and be a bit less long winded. When you don't know a hell of a lot, it's best to keep the verbage brief.

Good hunting. LB

edit: Kodiak, I apologize for lumping you in with the punks. I just reviewed, and in every case but once (possibly) I was actually refering to Loony Tunes as a punk.

[ January 07, 2009, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 07, 2009, 04:41 PM:
 
Chad,

I know you weren't, and I was just playing along.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 07, 2009, 05:13 PM:
 
LB, I wouldnt worry too much about that Gargoyle. I did some reading over there. Im not too sure hes not just a 13 yr old pimple faced kid sittin on dads computer in his underwear.

If he is a grown man, hes pathetic. Nothing to add thats productive. Just cruising websites and bashing anything and everything he can find fault with. Either that or jackin with Monster over Foxpro.

I know that website was created in part for people to vent things they cant say on other sites and thats kewl. This goofball goes beyond that. Hes made it his whole reason for being to fuck with people behind their back. Must be a penis envy thing. I bet he wouldnt have the balls to say anything to your face, or mine. Just a big pussy. Thats probably the best way to put it, PUSSY. He claims to only have been booted off one site, but chooses to go there to back bite people. Sounds like a pussy to me.

I used to take this shit on the internet too serious. I have learned that arguing on the internet is alot like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded.
 

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Posted by Kelly Jackson (Member # 977) on January 07, 2009, 05:43 PM:
 
Nevada - never hunted in Nevada yet.....Clint how bout you...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 07, 2009, 06:47 PM:
 
Don't go there, Kelly! Toughest hunting in the United States of America and I'm including Wasington D.C. and Disneyland.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 07, 2009, 06:57 PM:
 
Nevada???
No coyotes left in Nevada. I kilt the most of them in '06 and ran the rest back east to Kansas. Nope; no coyotes in Nevada.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 07, 2009, 07:30 PM:
 
Missouri & Michigan!!!!!
That's where the stars & the seminars are. Must be where all of the coyotes went too!!!!

BTW; Steve, good luck with the seminar.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 07, 2009, 07:39 PM:
 
Kokopelli, thanks for the luck..
 

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Posted by Clint (Member # 346) on January 07, 2009, 07:46 PM:
 
Not yet...
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 07, 2009, 07:50 PM:
 
Did I say Coyotes,I meant to say prostitutes.....

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Q-Wagoner (Member # 33) on January 08, 2009, 01:10 AM:
 
The “blind leading the blind” hits on many points so to appease Steve I will change the name of this thread. Be careful for what you ask for. LOL

It is a conditioned belief that taking out new or young people coyote hunting is great for “our sport.” Somebody please tell me how this deal works. It would make more sense to me that if you were truly concerned about “our sport” you would be taking the kids and newbies deer hunting or pheasant hunting or something of that nature. As far as I am concerned we are just shooting ourselves in the foot with this attitude.

Hunting is hunting but what is needed more than new hunters is hunters that are actively involved with nonprofit organizations that help us preserve our freedom to hunt. Saturating our hunting areas with newbies is probably a dream come true for the profiteers but how dose it improve the quality of hunting opportunities for you and I? It is simple, it doesn’t.

With this boom in predator hunting comes a lot of scavengers. There are overnight experts popping up all over the place trying to cultivate credibility any way they can. Many have few if any years behind them, no accomplishments and no numbers yet they are able to slide into places of influence through the back door. If you have seen people do it first hand like many of us have it tends to sour you a bit.

It is no one persons fault though. With the free and liberal exchange of information on the web and other outlets the would-be .com pimp can cut and paste his way to the top. LOL I know of a few that should write a book on it. At least they could die someday knowing they had an original thought. LOL

It can get really heated when these flash in the pans try to talk down to guys that have killed more coyotes than they have seen. It offends everyone that knows better. Problem is that few people know better. Screens are in place that will prevent them from knowing better too. As some here have found out on other forums, if your truth discredits a ‘company man’ you are on the hit list. Simple as that.

People are expected to treat prostaffers as the elite. Don’t get me wrong; there are some truly great prostaffers out there that deserve a lot of credit for their accomplishments. Sadly though for every legitimate “pro” there is a hand full of pimps.

ScottF is a shinning example IMO. I have no prior knowledge at all about this but I would bet that Rich got him in with Minaska? Steve… Todd…. Please explain. A public apology is probably in order. LOL I mean if you guys were coming down off of a three day drunk I can understand that. We have all been there but……… LOL Oh well I guess the least we could hope for is that flambeau does a little house cleaning?

That reminds me Kodiak, please extend to Scott my congratulations for winning the 2008 Glen Guess award on the monster board. All of the pimping, chest beating and ass kissing have come full circle and your hard work has finally paid off! LOL

Now that I think about it I am a little concerned with the direction predator hunting is heading and how it is being presented to the public. I realize that hunting means different things to different people but when ask we all appear to have similar reasons. It is the freedom of the outdoors, the thrill of the chase or the sport and challenge. It is a romantic notion for sure but how close to the truth is it really?

We look through catalogs and sporting magazines and they are cover-to-cover advertisements to products designed to “A” make a better hunter out of you or “B” make killing easier for you? How much does equipment aid in your success? How much equipment is required to be successful? How much equipment does it take to reduce sport hunting to an activity? With all the equipment available to us it is easy to see how (to some) nature is just an obstacle to be conquered and the animals are merely targets to be destroyed.

This once grand and sporting endeavor called hunting is quickly becoming a sordid PR disaster. We are the “Blind leading the blind” if we think that this attitude is going to stand the test of time.

I am saying all this at the risk of being called a hypocrite as I have some very nice equipment. I have rifles that shoot bug holes and support $1000 optics. I am as guilty as anyone else that gets caught up in this ‘arms race’ for lack of a better description. Shot my share over an e-caller as well. I rest a little easier though knowing I can do it the hard way and have enough experience to know the difference.

I really think about 50% of the .com generation of predator hunters would dry up and blow away if they outlawed e-callers and AR-15s. The .com pimp/pros would fallow the money so they would be gone as well.

It does irritate me to some degree about the mass commercialization of coyote hunting. When you see anything that is near and dear to your heart exploited and plundered by fast buck artist it strikes a nerve.

I don’t want much from predator hunting. I hunt coyotes and other critters for their fur. I skin them, I sew them, I wash them I stretch them, I turn them, I comb them, I fluff them up and then I market them. The nostalgia of the centuries old practice of fur harvesting is in my blood. I do my best to keep this time-honored tradition alive one pelt at a time. I stay active in state and national fur taking organizations to help ensure that my kids will be able to do the same thing.

Then I log on.

I see every swinging dick with a video camera, an AR and e-caller out trying to be the next Randy Anderson. I see slob hunters happily posting pictures of 2-month-old puppies and lactating females. After a hard day of hunting they stack up there kills, take the hero pics and speed off leaving the coyotes to rot but always make it home in time to sensationalize themselves on-line and put in a plug for the product of the day.

Don’t have much use for those guys so it really doesn’t bother me to bust their balls. I take pleasure in it actually. After all it is not too much to ask from a company to have REAL pros on the pro staff is it?

Good hunting.

Q,
 

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Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on January 08, 2009, 02:58 AM:
 
That is an excellent post Q. Very insightful to the reasons behind what I see posted and don't understand quite often.

That post answers my questions as it pertained to this thread and many others that I have often wondered when reading this forum in regards to peoples attitude about things.

I really do want to thank you for taking the time to post that, it is exactly what I was looking for.

It sheds new light on this for me and I will take heart what you had to say there. As I am new at this, I'm trying to find out what I want from it. I know that I love doing it but I am still trying to "discover" my opinions on different aspects of predator hunting.

Jabs aside, this is one of the best posts I have read on any forums board.

Thanks again,

Andrew Kerns

[ January 08, 2009, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: kodiak61 ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 08:55 AM:
 
Hey Q. Okay, I figured out what you did. As the originator of the thread, you have the ability to change the title and you did it so that Steve doesn't feel that all the flack is aimed in his direction...and you took the expression, "Blind, etc." from my previous post on the last page. (whew)

We are on the same wavelength. I understand you and you understand me, and I even understand Kodiak. Maybe now, Kodiak can begin to understand why we come off as curmudgeons, half the time? Cripes, if I had the Internet and half of what is available (now) back when I started, things would have been so much easier! I know, we are always being told by the old farts about how tough it was back in the day, but it really was! Now, we give them everything and they still seem ungrateful?

Well, as you say, there are many facets involved, but bottom line; we are allowed to reflect and comment and call a spade a spade, whenever the hell we choose to.

Good post, Dude. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 09:16 AM:
 
I bought a Pred. hunter magizine the other day and saw that Steve Criner had an article published.
I read the artilce and i have a few questions for Steve C.

1. Where have you called Eastern coyotes and how many have you called and killed out East??

2. Have you ever called and killed coyotes in central Iowa or southern Mn.?? If so how many?

3. I saw the pic. of you holding a coyote over youre shoulder, did you call and kill this coyote?
Or was it called and killed by some other hunter.???
 

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Posted by Jrbhunter (Member # 459) on January 08, 2009, 09:19 AM:
 
Geordie... call the fire department.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 11:26 AM:
 
Tim, I know you have been waiting a long time for this.so here it is.

1. Depends what you call east.0 states east. All the states I've hunted are in the midwest and eastern Mo .except the western states I've hunted.

2. Never hunted iowa or Minnasota.

3. That pic was taken by a coyote hunter that we invited along because he wasn't getting much action elsewhere due to lack of common since and we thought we could help out due to his unsuccessful trip to AZ the prior year,that coyote was called by this said hunter, and I killed the coyote 150 yrds down wind of him because we all know the downwind is the good spot.
Later the guy that we took complained because we set him downwind every time it wasn't his turn to call,he said we was settin him in the bad spots,lol.

Now Tim before you question my credability about that article you better reread it. I stated that the methods were good everywhere I've hunted and I also stated that it depends on what you call east.I hope u don't believe it takes magic to call coyotes in the east,I bet u it don't and I bet I could.now this answer depends on wich article u read.

I don't know where you are going with this but I think you might rethink it. I've called coyotes with some good fur guys and hunters. I've never looked like I was a dusche bag either so if you think I'm making stuff up that's funny because you wouldn't know the diffrence anyway.
Now I've answered your questions you answer higgans questions.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 12:13 PM:
 
Steve: As for the pic. it reminded me of TT and the pic's he would post of him and someone elses coyotes. The readers see youre pic. and assume that you called in and killed the coyote. You give no mention or credit to others that may have helped you get this coyote. Selfish on youre part don't you think!
As for the answer to Rich H. question it canbe found on PM, just have to do some reading and the answer canbe found. LOL
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 12:28 PM:
 
Give me a freekin break Tim.I guess I need to tell everyone u took the pic and you called the coyote. Its freekin space filler.By the way I guess he didn't see it taken by you because that's how it is listed in my file. I'm sorry for that.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 08, 2009, 12:59 PM:
 
Another good Post Q.

Here in Utah,I've seen this "craze" steadily increase to the point where it is quite ridiculous.You almost have to parallel park to call coyotes here anymore.lol

Guys that are just bored in the winter months,after all the big game hunts are over,bored in the summer months waiting for the big game seasons to start,and there MORAL obligation to "eradicate as many yotes as they can to save the Big Game herds".lol Most feel they are doing there part as part time ADC men.

Most do not mess with skinning them,just a heroes Photo shot to post on PMS...

I definitely miss the days when you really didn't have to go to far out in the west desert to kill a couple coyotes in a morning.Sure I still get coyotes out there but usually have to go further into more remote areas to get to them.Road trips are now the norm if you really want the numbers....So yeah call me selfish but i try to keep my mouth shut about calling anymore because the only one it hurts in the long run is ME....The Calling can only take so much pressure until you start seeing diminishing returns.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by onecoyote (Member # 129) on January 08, 2009, 02:05 PM:
 
UTcaller, the clubs in southern California have all said this was a very bad year for coyotes in California and Nevada. Some say the worst they have ever seen, I can believe that. If something don't happen, it's just going to get worse.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 02:05 PM:
 
Don't worry about that, Chad. Ol' Steve is graduating another class on the 17th and they are all headed for your honey holes.

Come on now Steve, be cool. But, seriously. In a publication, credit should be given, especially if the photo could give the impression that you killed the critter.

Good hunting. LB

PS, TA are you the Lunatic? For some reason, they have a guy over there that spends a lot of time unraveling the mysteries of the bogus screen names. I personally think it is infantile, in the first place, and hardly worth the effort. Besides, I hear I don't have much time left for such trivialities.......

edit: Danny, it's the economy. Everybody's hurting

[ January 08, 2009, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 02:06 PM:
 
I just looked at a weather map and MO is nowhere near Eastern united states, it falls into the Mid-west region. With youre good schooling i thought you could tell the difference..LOL So anyway you have no exsperiance at calling Eastern coyotes, just midwest coyotes and western.

In youre article you mention callers not being able to call coyotes towards the road and youre answer was due to roadhunters.
The coyote i did call this summer was called towards the road and so where a few others that i called in on my last two trips. They came in because they did not hear my approach when i moved into the area. This is one reason why some hunters park there vehicle and walk through a area holding coyotes.
Yep a Midwest coyote looks simular to a western coyote would have to agree there. Do they behave the same? Do they come to a call the same? Are all the coyotes responsive? NO!

Anyway it was still a good article Steve, i was able to read it all without falling asleep.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 02:12 PM:
 
Well shit! It's finally dawning on me! We have a genuine CELEBRITY? Videos, magazine articles, seminars? Probably more of you guys should be taking advantage of the opportunity to pick his brain. I know I will!

Steve, what's the best moon phase for daylights?

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 02:18 PM:
 
LOL Leanard. No i could not get signed on in the padded room so i quit trying..Just abunch of nuts that fell from the tree over there anyway..LOL

As to Steve's pic., the coyote was killed by Steve with some help from other team members. I did'nt realize he was playing solo untill now.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 02:23 PM:
 
You could have said that first. What's the problem, then?
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 08, 2009, 03:20 PM:
 
Danny,

This has been alot slower than normal year for me to.But I think there is definitely more to it than hunting pressure.I've been talking to alot of guys that are having the same problem,especially with YOY coyotes not being present(DAA mentioned this to in a post a while back).A few old timers think disease has killed a bunch of the coyotes out west here.(Distemper,or Parvo)is what i've heard.Hope it doesn't keep up to long.Yeah, Nevada has been disappointingly slow this season compared to the last several seasons.Probably one the worst years I've seen.....

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 08, 2009, 03:33 PM:
 
Criner shot the coyote and used the picture as background in an article w/o a list of credits? Short of some additional attention grabbing text I'd say BFD. There's real shit to worry about in this world.

Criner's Mo coyotes being easterners? Heck yes, just ask LB.
Or you could side with Martz. He says no way, but only after he makes an incredible statement.
I'm sticking w/LB on that'n. Not because he was right - just because his stance is credible.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 03:58 PM:
 
I'm lost again Joe. What was I not right about, but credible?

As far as "back east" I'm just telling you what the locals say, out here. Back east is "not the west". I guess you midwesterners think of yourselves as not western, and not eastern; sorta, neither fish nor fowl, as I understand it?
(I'm just pulling your leg) I don't know anything about the eastern United States, never been there. Oh, I have been in a couple airports, but that's about it.

But, putting two and two together, is the situation kinda like Byron puting out a video on hunting eastern coyotes, filmed in eastern Texas?

Good hunting. LB

edit: I agree about TA's complaint. BFD

[ January 08, 2009, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 08, 2009, 04:26 PM:
 
Leonard,
I ain't so sure that anyone really knows where the east begins. I always thought that anything east of the mississippi river was "the east". Every now and then I hear the television reporters speak of Chicago as being in the midwest. What do old farts like us know anyways.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 04:33 PM:
 
Like I said I killed thwe coyote TA called up. I have it as him the photographer for the photo in the file, Dont know why they didnt post it. As far as him callin it, I guess from now on folks ought to put it in the subtitle i wreckon. Trust me Im not tryin to mislead people with that pic,its one coyote.(be diffrent if it was 10) Im sry thats the only hero pic of a coyote TA has called in the west and didnt get credit for it,MY bad.

TA, If you were WIley,3Toes,LB,Quinton,Higgans,Gerald,Geordie,Shaw,UTCaller,Vic or some of the other vetran callers that frequent this board ,wich your not,I would argue with ya maybe or try to conversate or try to explain my beliefs but you are TA. Enough said! I cant believe you waited to jump on the wagon when you thought there was one and nitpick a article that is about the most basic crap in the world about calling, your a funny guy.

edit:I shouldnt of said conversate because I will visit with anyone but I wont explain myself to just anyone.

[ January 08, 2009, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: stevecriner ]
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 08, 2009, 04:45 PM:
 
It's all relative I guess. To me, MO. is definately in the "east". Minnesoter is pretty damn far east also, but maybe not in the east. And answer me this, why is it called the "midwest"? To me it should be the "mideast". The "midwest" should actually be the states like Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas with the "west" being Nevada, Idaho, California, Az etc.
Utah should be annexed into Canada or Mexico, whoever would take them.
 

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Posted by TRnCO (Member # 690) on January 08, 2009, 04:46 PM:
 
We all think the "good 'ol days" are gone because of all the newbies.....BUT just think what it would be like if a coyote was worth $50-$70 in the round.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 04:58 PM:
 
I agree with ya, Cal. The midwest seems a lot more like east than it does west? I'm talking from pictures. When I drove through Missouri last year, it sure looked east, to me? As I imagine what east looks like, that is. It sure didn't look "west"? Of course, what will we do with WA and OR, more like Canada or Minnesoota than "west". I don't agree about Utah. It's right in the middle of the west, we are stuck with it.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 08, 2009, 05:16 PM:
 
Hey now be nice...Utah has been a great place to hang my hat.I will admit that as of late the California migration gets a little old.Hey heres a thought, maybe that's where all the dumb ass callers are coming from.Just a thought...lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 08, 2009, 05:40 PM:
 
As if all that isn't confounding enough, they call Kansas "central" and for obvious good reason, but how can they put "midwest" east of "central" and keep a straight face? I mean, doesn't it make more sense to have it western-midwestern-central-eastern? They really should have consulted with me before setting that in stone.

As far as TA's grievance, LMAO. You guys are busting Steve's balls for the number of coyotes he's taken in his life, and TA's jumping on the bandwagon without a picture ID. I mean, it was just a short time ago that all he talked about was spot and stalk because, in his own words, you couldn't call coyotes where he lives. Now that he spent a few days with Scott, made a couple trips over the state line and managed to rack up a meager body count, he's riding at the front of the wagon with a big grin on his face? When all he can find to grieve is the fact that his name wasn't cited as having been there? Hell, I rarely hunt without a partner any more, but I don't make it a practice of noting the witnesses in the credits or caption. Unless you pulled the trigger, who cares? And even then,... who cares?

Oh, and BTW, Leonard said,

quote:

---

I guess you midwesterners think of yourselves as not western, and not eastern; sorta, neither fish nor fowl, as I understand it?

---

That suits us fine. There's good reason for that.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 05:49 PM:
 
Nah, I see it as being a little "look at me" you can't be talking like you are special or something? I like Cronk's idea. You have a river. Runs right down the center. The left side is west and the other side is EAST. Quit trying to create something different out of FLYOVER COUNTRY !

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 08, 2009, 06:04 PM:
 
But, FLYOVER is a good thing. That means y'all aren't stopping and staying around. A lot of folks make fun of us here in Kansas, and as long as it keeps them away from here, that's a good thing.
 

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Posted by CCP (Member # 913) on January 08, 2009, 06:33 PM:
 
Geographically east has a different meaning than hunting coyotes in the east. Talk of eastern coyotes relates to east of the Mississippi because there have always been coyotes west of the Mississippi.

Coyotes east of the Mississippi is a fairly new thing. Most states bordering the Mississippi on the west bank had bounties on coyotes as early as 1825 meaning there must have had a pretty darn good population. From what I have read it was 1912 before one was sighted on the east side. Then east of the Mississippi there has not been a hunt able population until the late 1970’s. Then only in certain pockets of the country.

I agree with some of the above. I have hunted coyotes east of the Mississippi for 26 years and still learn new stuff here where I live.

I like some others get tired of these internet experts. It’s usually a guy with a few years trying and then he finds the internet and a few years later he has been hunting coyotes all his life and is an expert. Me I aint never been an expert at nothing but I have been doing it long enough here in the east to know bullshit when I see it.

Maybe I will go over to west AL and tell everyone I am now a western expert.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 08, 2009, 07:19 PM:
 
Hey Criner. I still like ya.

I couldnt intrest you in a prostaff postition with me and Cal could I?

Im recruitin since my PR mans been layin down on the job.... I gotta fist pump, leg hump, endzone dance and recruit...
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 07:25 PM:
 
Whats it Pay Andy?LOL
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 08, 2009, 07:29 PM:
 
It pays what most Prostaff positions do.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 08, 2009, 07:34 PM:
 
Oh, and sorry Chad, I still don't like most of Utah and the Utards, but I'll make an exception for you and DAA. I hope the Californios keep coming, I have a nice little piece of property near Monroe UT that I would love to unload at a substantial profit. Thats one of thier favorite little retirement places.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 07:47 PM:
 
Im in Cal. Send me a check. Oh and did you get my email. If so shoot me another or your phone number. We will visit about it.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 08, 2009, 07:47 PM:
 
Cal, send me an email please. andylaughlin@hughes.net

I lost your addy.,
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 07:50 PM:
 
Oh shit, earthquake!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 07:56 PM:
 
I just have one more question for you Steve. On page 46 you state that the pups leave the den around September 15th? LOL are you shitting me? I guess it is a good time to hunt them. Twenty bucks right out of the hole!!!! Can’t beat that, not even with a stick! Or can you? LOL It is no wonder you guys are affectionately known as the “Special Hunters”


 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 08, 2009, 08:09 PM:
 
Thanks for the exception Cal...

You know what they say about Wyoming though..."Wyoming where the men are men and the sheep are scared"..lol

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 08, 2009, 08:20 PM:
 
Lance; I was calling and killing coyotes just fine before i met Scott, i've been hunting out there for almost 20 yrs.. What i wanted to learn from Scott and others is how to work with coyotes that have been conditioned by baldheaded farts such as you and also to learn new tatics..
My numbers have gone up and thats what counts.
One thing i'm never affraid to do is thank the people that have helped me or thank those that have played an important part in my life.
Maybe if you spent some time with someone like Scott you could then breath some life into youre hunting stories that you write.
While where at it i might aswell mention Randy Roede, Randy has also played an important part in my calling, and also Quinton. Quinton gives me the drive to not quit no matter how bad it may get at times. A Thank you from my heart goes out to them. And a big Thanks to Leonard for haveing this site which allowed me to meet some of the best callers in the U.S. Where you fit in Lance i'm not really sure, you can call coyotes but i would'nt say you are a great caller. LMAO!!!
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 08, 2009, 08:21 PM:
 
Keep diggin TA, your just showin your true colors friend.

Quote from "Eastern Terms and Conditions" Page 46 of the predator hunting magazine.

quote:

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"If youve never read the farmers almanac it doesn’t say anything about coyotes.
Yet farmers are my best friends when it comes to finding land and coyotes to hunt. They will tell you all you need to know about anything and everything especially coyotes if you ask. They will let you know when they howl at night, when they cross the calving pasture, when and where they cross the road every morning, when they cut hay, where there friends have coyotes, and so much more. Farmers recognize your effort and help you thin coyote population. Also find out if they are involved in a program with the ADC and find out where they are working so you don’t affect the outcome and results of their operation.

Fresh cut hay fields are like a buffet to a coyote. I receive numerous calls every year from farmers stating they have seen coyotes while cutting hay. Most of the time the coyotes show up before the farmer even leaves the field. Also beings the coyotes are denning about the time of the first and second cutting the farmers see active dens and pups out side the hole. Even though I don’t hunt during denning season this information will allow me to set up a plan and figure out where to start when the pups are out. Usually the last cutting in alfalfa here in Missouri is around September 15. This is very close to the time the pups leave the den and this will make some of the best nonstop action you can stand in the east. Keep in mind though you need to keep informed by the farmers and establish and keep a good relationship with the farmer to figure out when and where they cut."""

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Keep Diggin I guess. If your mouthing about shooting coyotes out of prime,Sheese, I guess our 10 day trip to NM and AZ was the wrong time of the year when You,Shaw,and Geordie,Pilgrim and myself went. We went in OCT of 07 and if i recall we left the 7th. 22 days after the 15th. Whoa big diffrence. Is that why you didnt kill any coyotes that trip because you were ashamed to kill out of prime. Your wastin your time Tim. Just let it go.

JRB, Geordie is in KS will you call the fire dept.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 08, 2009, 09:31 PM:
 
And here I always thought I-35 was the center divider of the US. Being 30 miles east of center in OKLAHOMA it makes me a southerner.
 

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Posted by JoeF (Member # 228) on January 08, 2009, 10:04 PM:
 
I wish I had time to read all of these posts but I don't.

LB, I did not say you were wrong. I said I was following you because you were credible. That was meant as a complement.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 08, 2009, 10:31 PM:
 
Thank you, Joe. Compliments are always well received here 'cause they are fairly rare.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 09, 2009, 07:03 AM:
 
Chad, they are only nervous when I get my velcro chaps out.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2009, 08:30 AM:
 
Cal, I bet you get a hoot down at the local AM PM every time you tell that one!

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on January 09, 2009, 10:29 AM:
 
Cal,

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by coyote whacker (Member # 639) on January 09, 2009, 11:30 AM:
 
I would agree coyote pups have long since left any den by the month of Sept for sure. Most pups by august are using some form of cover to bed in but I wouldn't call it a den, more of a bedding area. Thick /dense cover, tall grass etc.
I found that part confusing in the story as well.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 09, 2009, 11:36 AM:
 
LOL, Timmy. Pretty lame. Now, back under the porch, you mangy troll. Twenty years makes you barely a pup.

BTW, is there anyone out there that drops your name?

I didn't think so.

 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2009, 11:43 AM:
 

quote:

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BTW, is there anyone out there that drops your name?

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Not sure what you mean by that...
 

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Posted by tlbradford (Member # 1232) on January 09, 2009, 12:45 PM:
 
Cal, You must know this classic...

What are the 3 biggest lies told by a Wyoming cowboy...."I own this truck, I won this belt buckle, and I was only helping that sheep through the fence."
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 09, 2009, 02:28 PM:
 
Yep, they are never ending. Like the one where 3 cowboys were riding along and noticed a ewe stuck in the fence. The first cowboy said "I wish that were Angelina Jolie stuck in that fence". The second said "nope, I wish it were Shania Twain". The third just grinned and said "hell, I just wish it was dark out".
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 09, 2009, 02:30 PM:
 
Aw crap... all this talk about the magazines and videos and I just got my PX and there is an article in there by me. I suppose now I'll get a crappy review by TA also.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2009, 02:40 PM:
 
Think you need one.?
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 09, 2009, 03:23 PM:
 
...And what's really funny is, in his article, Mr Not Teaching or Sharing, is sharing the whole dang State of Wyoming!

I haven't read it yet, Cal.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 09, 2009, 04:22 PM:
 
I just read it and Im loadin my gear right now, headin for Wyoming....

That was a good article Cal.
 

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Posted by 3 Toes (Member # 1327) on January 09, 2009, 05:09 PM:
 
Damn it Andy, the whole article was designed to keep you out of Wyoming. Crappy weather, remote locations, wild assed coyotes, on and on. I thought it would deter a few!
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2009, 05:41 PM:
 
Cal: I might give your article a bad review if you thought pups left the dens in the middle of September. Maybe even if you told me September coyotes were worth 20 bucks and pups were on solid food at two days. I may even be a little skeeptical if your prostaff status came about because one of the crew had a flat out front of your house like our friend Steve did. I would think that you shoot more than 20 coyotes a year too.

Would you write an article about how you call coyotes and then post a picture of a coyote that someone else called in for you in NEW MEXICO?
I am skeptical about “Special Hunters” because I have hunted with Steve. He may act polite and innocent here but he disrespects and discredits me every chance he gets. He can dish it out but obviously he can't take it.
T.A.
 

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Posted by TOM64 (Member # 561) on January 09, 2009, 07:00 PM:
 
Dang TA, did Steve cheat on you at the campout or what?
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 07:42 PM:
 
Okay for what its worth to everyone this is my last response to Tim. Last time we got into it this bad he was going to burn my house down, trust me its in a chat log a friend of mine has. So here it goes Im taking my chances.

Tim, If you only knew what the folks that your trying to convince that Im fake thought about you would keep your remarks to yourself. I will not try to convince or explain why I didn’t write something in an article the right way or the wrong way, I guess I should of said” sept 15th is fresh full of pups” or something like that.

With that being said If anyone on this board wants to hear the story of how I became a National Prostaffer for H.S. just ask. (Oh and the head videographer’s transmission went out not he tire). Also if they ask I might even tell them how we took this one guy hunting and he started a sequence of prey in distress holding his Big Country caller over his head spinning around like a top on a calm fall evening in the desert ,after I started with a low volume bird sound 50 yrds from him 30 seconds prior. His reason for this Quote” Huh?”
Or I might tell them about the coyote running in and this hunter was clanking his sticks together and gathering himself up loudly and foolishly, the coyote was never seen again, or maybe about the time this one hunter went on a 10 day excursion to the west with his FRIENDS and only killed two coyotes and one was out of a truck window, his explanation for that, quote” I wanted to try my predator out”,,,, Or about this one hunter that hunted NM for 6 days and didn’t even buy a license, hell the state didn’t care anyway they figured the coyotes were safe. Or about this one hunter that sent a PM to someone a few years ago and said he hasn’t even called in a coyote and needs help. Or about this one hunter that I guess is so self absorbed that he thinks he is accomplishing something and clearly is not.

Tim, really the guys on HM are sick Im pretty sure of this petty bull crap your are letting out of your mouth. Please Im telling you, Spare yourself the time and save your breath for something better than this. You are only discrediting yourself not me. Im telling you this because you really ought to stop. Its getting way to funny and they aint laughing at me. Do you really think because I said “very close” instead of “month after” that people are going to hate me or not think I can kill coyotes and the pic??? Sheese Tim let it go brother. You called that coyote in and I even complemented and thanked you then. And yes I may even just kill 20 a year,BFD,. Oh wait this year will be better because I killed 13 on film and 5 during the world contest, so Im up to 18. 2 more and Ive hit my quota. You think I can do it Tim,,,,,,,,,????????? You know I can. Besides give me a break Im killing most of them on film and you know how hard that is,you’re a videographer now . Sheese.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2009, 08:41 PM:
 
What a kiss and tell, Steve!
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 08:57 PM:
 
Trust me I didnt kiss. You know this has been some good discusion, last week and this week, but now this. Im just tired of the petty bullcrap. Do you not get tired of it?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2009, 09:11 PM:
 
This is how I get my information. Your dossier is filling up fast.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 09, 2009, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 09:21 PM:
 
Good if I ever forget somthing I will just ask so you can refresh my memory. So do you sell the stuff you collect or just give it away??
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2009, 09:27 PM:
 

quote:

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Tim, If you only knew what the folks that your trying to convince that Im fake thought about you would keep your remarks to yourself.

---

quote:

---

Also if they ask I might even tell them how we took this one guy hunting and he started a sequence of prey in distress holding his Big Country caller over his head spinning around like a top on a calm fall evening in the desert ,after I started with a low volume bird sound 50 yrds from him 30 seconds prior

---

quote:

---

I might tell them about the coyote running in and this hunter was clanking his sticks together and gathering himself up loudly and foolishly, the coyote was never seen again

---

quote:

---

maybe about the time this one hunter went on a 10 day excursion to the west with his FRIENDS and only killed two coyotes and one was out of a truck window

---

Steve: You where not along in the truck at the time so i'll tell you how it happened.
We spotted a coyote out in the sage brush and one of my friends stopped the truck and tried for a shot, the coyote took off before he could shoot. We then drove down the road aways and spotted it again, this time all three of us try for a shot and i just so happen to shot first and hit the coyote.

quote:

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, Or about this one hunter that hunted NM for 6 days and didn’t even buy a license,

---

quote:

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Or about this one hunter that sent a PM to someone a few years ago and said he hasn’t even called in a coyote and needs help

---

quote:

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Tim, really the guys on HM are sick Im pretty sure of this petty bull crap your are letting out of your mouth.

---

quote:

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Spare yourself the time and save your breath for something better than this. You are only discrediting yourself not me.

---

Steve you created this mess years ago,If you would of listened to Randy and kept what happens on the trip stays on the trip things could of been great. You turned me into a monster and i'll be a thorn in youre side for years to come.

quote:

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you’re a videographer now

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No Steve! I never claimed to be one or ever plan to be one. Not everyone likes to see pic's of dead coyotes so i use my new Cam and try to show some of the area i hunt in also and give others that are interested what my hunts are like and the weather conditions. I'm not trying to brag about my hunting just like to show the results of my hunts and like to have pic's also for my self to look back on when i get to old to hunt..

I would like to apologize to other members for my posts if it bothers them and also to Leonard...
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 09:52 PM:
 
Ok thats was refreshing. Now let it go.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2009, 09:53 PM:
 
Why don't you fellers settle it with an old fashioned leg wrassle? That's what me and John Henry did years ago. As I recall, I flipped him, two out of three and he had to hunt with a 257Wby for the rest of the season.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 09, 2009, 10:00 PM:
 
Well there is fresh snow on the ground so I'll say one last thing then i'm going hunting..

Dang Steve don't get so bent out of shape. Maybe you should take "pimpin 101" at PU. I hear Tony has summer classes for the "Special" hunters. He will teach you how to take the "high road" and not worry about what us little people think. LMAO He might even teach you that your role as a pro staffer is not suppose to be the "humper." You are suppose to be the hump'ie. LOL I am sure Big Al will appreciate that. He will stop walking with a limp after he hunts with you and he will save a fortune in dry cleaning.

[ January 09, 2009, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 10:01 PM:
 
You know I tried reloading for a .264 once for a buddy. I just loaded what bullets and powder he wanted and man that thing was finicky, it took more work than he wanted to do to find a load..
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 09, 2009, 10:18 PM:
 
Hmm? I think 3toes has one of them? Lot of magic in that one if you just use it on speed goats.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 09, 2009, 10:35 PM:
 
LB, Ive been thinkin about going and killin me a Speed Gaot,lol. Think it might be neat.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 10, 2009, 04:58 AM:
 

quote:

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Why don't you fellers settle it with an old fashioned leg wrassle? That's what me and John Henry did years ago. As I recall, I flipped him, two out of three and he had to hunt with a 257Wby for the rest of the season.

---

LMFAO, is that on tape? I would pay money to see that one. Thats a classic LB.

Steve, Im thinkin very serious about taking my son on an antelope hunt. Dont know if I will hunt or just go along. Its either that or elk. I wanna take the boy somewhere big game hunting this fall. Im leanin heavy toward the goats.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2009, 05:49 AM:
 
I'm still thinking about the guy who spends big bucks for a W.T remote controlled caller, and then just turns the bugger on and holds it over his head for awhile, and then sets it down beside him. If I was doing that, I wouldn't tell anyone about it. If I was too dim to know that the method just described would spook more coyotes than it called, I would surely save a lot of money and either use mouth calls or buy a ghetto blaster. To each his own though.
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 10, 2009, 05:56 AM:
 
Andy, Im going on an Elk hunt for HS in sept, but once I get them dates pinned down maybe we can figure it were we can be out there together. Be a good time.... If I draw a muley tag or elk tags else were though there will be no chance on a praire goat this year
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2009, 07:44 AM:
 

quote:

---

I'm still thinking about the guy who spends big bucks for a W.T remote controlled caller, and then just turns the bugger on and holds it over his head for awhile, and then sets it down beside him. If I was doing that, I wouldn't tell anyone about it. If I was too dim to know that the method just described would spook more coyotes than it called, I would surely save a lot of money and either use mouth calls or buy a ghetto blaster.

---

Rich: On my first trip out this year i used hand calls for one day, i even used the screamer i got from you. I was calling tighter areas with the river near by so i did'nt need alot of volume. The calls worked just fine.
Before i had a WT or a B.C. Minaska i used a Dennis Kirk caller that does not have a remote.
Where i call i need to get the sound out there and my style of calling does'nt spook the coyotes.
What you need is an understanding of how sound travels and how you can take advantage of this with an electrronic caller. The farther out the sound gets it also becomes more of a narrow sound wave, for example like a lazer beam. You point that sound beam into different directions you have a better chance of covering more area and getting a coyotes attension from great distances.
If the coyotes are located prior to makeing a stand then just set the caller down and point it in the direction of known coyotes. But if you are calling cold then you need to cover some area with the caller and thats what i do by sweeping the caller from side to side..
Try it some time and you'll bring in more coyotes per stand and have to make fewer stands when moveing through an area.

On my last two trips i never lost a coyote due to me haveing the caller next to me. I did loose a few but it was due to useing shooting sticks and poor shots. I relized the shooting sticks where not working for me so i switched to bi-pods and never missed a coyote after that. Go check out my two posts on my hunts and you will see the results..

[ January 10, 2009, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Mark Zepp (Member # 3400) on January 10, 2009, 07:46 AM:
 
Steve Criner – No matter what you do in life, or how long you’ve been around, or how good your intentions are, there will always be folks who doubt you or question your credibility. I enjoyed meeting you and Clay in Cortez last month and congratulate you guys on your top ten finish in the World Hunt. I wish we would have had more time to visit but Eddie and I were running way behind schedule. Your “partner in crime”over at HS, three time World Champion Al Morris is a tip top, A#1 guy and represents this sport extremely well. He’s humble, unassuming and has accomplished more than most people in this game but you’d never know it by his laid back, easy going personality. Al does quite a bit of television stuff and I don’t envy him. I did one show last year and it was a learning experience. Sound bites clipped together, people and places identified incorrectly and a host of other things. When you’re not in the editing room looking over someone’s shoulder, you better be prepared to take some heat for things that never happened or were shown completely out of context. My only advice is, when you represent a company like you do, don’t get in any piss’in contests with anyone, under any circumstances. No one ever walks away from these things good. Shake their hand, smile, walk away and take the high road. You are in the process of jeopardizing a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Putting a seminar schedule together, traveling, hoping a few people might actually show up and being the “main act” surely isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. It’s much tougher than most people realize because most never have had the desire or confidence that it takes to actually go ahead and do it. Like many things in life that end up being really rewarding , there are some sleepless nights and a nauseating feeling involved. If I were a little closer I’d show up and listen to what you had to say. I’m sure that some of the folks will learn from you’re experiences. In my experience ninety five percent of the folks that attend these are hungry for information and terrific people. There will always be one or two that role their eyes at everything you have to say and any suggestion that you make, and that’s just part of anything you do in life. I have not seen your article but if you made a mistake, learn from it and move on. There are plenty of guys on this board to run questions by: I’d think Cal and a host of others would be a great resource and happy to help you out in any way. Good luck up at Jay’s. It’s a great store, great employee’s and surrounded by a lot of hunters but not many coyotes.

Kodiak and Scott – Some of the most exciting and memorable moments of your short calling careers are right now - putting it all together and killing critters on a regular basis. AZ, and west TX, is the coyote hunters land of “milk and honey”, but like everywhere else these days, by late in the season, you’re dealing with a lot of educated coyotes. I think some of these guys resent all of your posts because they know how tough it can be in other parts of the country. You’ll learn all about that as the years pass but, for now, enjoy these moments and always keep your enthusiasm.

QW - You make some excellent points in your follow up. When you get a minute, please e-mail me at zepps@q.com.

The internet and several of these boards are a funny animal and many times, like breeding dogs, there is a “they eat their young” element to them. This board is full of a lot of really good guys and extremely talented callers. Everyone who visits it has one common bond, coyotes. There may not be one other thing in their life that they can agree upon, but over a cup of coffee on a chilly morning before the sun breaks the eastern horizon, they can be the best of buddies for a few minutes.

Happy New Year and Good Hunting!

Mark
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 08:23 AM:
 
Welcome to The New Huntmasters, Mark. Glad to have you on board. I have heard a lot about you.

Good hunting. LB
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 10, 2009, 09:12 AM:
 
Thank you Mark and Ill take your advice. Welcome to HM. It was good to visit with you at Cortez. Maybe we will be able to visit longer next time.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 10, 2009, 09:34 AM:
 
"Try it some time and you'll bring in more coyotes per stand and have to make fewer stands when moveing through an area."
-------------------------------------
Tim,
You will never catch me trying that. Too much chance of spooking the coyotes that smell you or see you. The remote control is there for a reason, and I recommend taking full advantage of it.
 

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Posted by Andy L (Member # 642) on January 10, 2009, 10:34 AM:
 
Steve, lets keep in touch. Id be more than interested in getting together if you wanna go. Good times comin, I can see it from here. LOL

I cant believe Im doing this, considering TA and my own past history.

However, I hunted with a fella one time that I dont think anyone can dispute his abilities due to the number of animals he kills and amount of fur he puts up. Mr. Blaine Eddy. He carried some sort of caller with a large speaker. I was astonished when he turned on the call and started pointing it all around for about 30 seconds, then shut it off and sat there for about 5 minutes. Then turned it on again, holding it still for another 30 seconds and off for another 5 minutes. Then mouth called for a while.

Anyway, he keeps the call with him. We killed coyotes. He kills lots of coyotes. Honestly I dont see why its any different from mouth calling?

I like having a remote around here especially. Alot of the areas I call are like where Rich hunts and very open with brushy draws, fencerows and ditches. Its nice to get that sound away from me. But in big country, I can see merits of keeping the call close.

Ever watch Les Johnsons TV show? He holds his call in his hand...
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 10:53 AM:
 
Well, for that matter, Gerald Stewart stands on a platform on top of his Suburban and turns 360º with the speaker in his hand. Of course, that's at night, but it is not a bad tactic. I use two speakers at night, foward pointing and to the rear, and select them for various reasons. Amounts to the same thing.

In fact, even with a hand call, I have turned and called in the exact opposite direction from a hung up animal and it sometimes gets them moving in. Who knows what they are thinking but I suppose it might sound as if the distressed animal is running away. You cannot get that effect by just blowing at a lower volume. Directional sound is something not given much credibility. I don't know if the Foxpro speakers can be selected remotely or not but it's not a bad idea.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 10, 2009, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 11:10 AM:
 
Then we have this shit:

quote:

---

Does LB ever share his predator hunting wisdom with others?

---

quote:

---

I don't know if the Foxpro speakers can be selected remotely or not but it's not a bad idea.

---

quote:

---

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim, If you only knew what the folks that your trying to convince that Im fake thought about you would keep your remarks to yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve i don't care what some may think of me, those that know me know i'm the real deal and not trying to be something i'm not. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything just telling it like it is.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also if they ask I might even tell them how we took this one guy hunting and he started a sequence of prey in distress holding his Big Country caller over his head spinning around like a top on a calm fall evening in the desert ,after I started with a low volume bird sound 50 yrds from him 30 seconds prior
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve: As most already know i'm a little hard of hearing, but not deaf. As for that particuler stand i may have thought it was my turn to call. When i use an electric caller i most always hold it up for a few seconds above my head before setting it on the ground. I like to get the sound out as far as i can when i first start. As for the rabbit in distress sound thats what i start with on my stands. You have to keep in mind i'm used to calling farther up north and we do it a little different than the southern hunters. Useing the bird sounds was something i did learn from the trip, but dose'nt mean i'm going to use it.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I might tell them about the coyote running in and this hunter was clanking his sticks together and gathering himself up loudly and foolishly, the coyote was never seen again

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve: I was useing a new pair of shooting sticks and they would'nt hold the rifle properly. I think i got them from Hunters specialties. Also i had a knee injury from work and my knee was inflamed from rideing in the back seat dureing most of the trip, had to let the kids ride up front. So it was difficult for me to sit on the ground..

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
maybe about the time this one hunter went on a 10 day excursion to the west with his FRIENDS and only killed two coyotes and one was out of a truck window
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve: You where not along in the truck at the time so i'll tell you how it happened.
We spotted a coyote out in the sage brush and one of my friends stopped the truck and tried for a shot, the coyote took off before he could shoot. We then drove down the road aways and spotted it again, this time all three of us try for a shot and i just so happen to shot first and hit the coyote.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
, Or about this one hunter that hunted NM for 6 days and didn’t even buy a license,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes Steve thats true. The driver of the truck would'nt take me somewhere to get one and when we did get to a town it was like 8-9:00 at nite, not many stores open..

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or about this one hunter that sent a PM to someone a few years ago and said he hasn’t even called in a coyote and needs help
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was refering to the coyotes that where with-in a 60 mile radius of my home. Not sure who i sent a PM to but i was just asking for advise on what else i could try other than the basic stuff. You are more than welcome to come up and show me how its done or better yet i'll just show you where they are and i'll sit at home till you call one in and kill it. I'll have the wife run to the store for groceries cause i know i'll have a pretty long wait before you drag one in..LOL

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim, really the guys on HM are sick Im pretty sure of this petty bull crap your are letting out of your mouth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve: Yes you maybe right there somewhat, but for youre information there are some members that are enjoying the hell out of it.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spare yourself the time and save your breath for something better than this. You are only discrediting yourself not me.
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Steve you created this mess years ago,If you would of listened to Randy and kept what happens on the trip stays on the trip things could of been great. You turned me into a monster and i'll be a thorn in youre side for years to come.

quote:
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you’re a videographer now
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No Steve! I never claimed to be one or ever plan to be one. Not everyone likes to see pic's of dead coyotes so i use my new Cam and try to show some of the area i hunt in also and give others that are interested what my hunts are like and the weather conditions. I'm not trying to brag about my hunting just like to show the results of my hunts and like to have pic's also for my self to look back on when i get to old to hunt..

I would like to apologize to other members for my posts if it bothers them and also to Leonard...

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Like wow man. Your memory is a little different than mine.

[ January 10, 2009, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Pilgrim on Earth ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 10, 2009, 02:36 PM:
 


[ March 28, 2010, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by stevecriner (Member # 892) on January 10, 2009, 04:37 PM:
 
Patrick, My twin brother how are you? Ive tried to call but never catch ya. LEt this one ride. I never should of took the bait and I think we should just forget about it. Call me some time or shoot me an email scriner1@yahoo.com
 

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Posted by Pilgrim on Earth (Member # 314) on January 10, 2009, 04:45 PM:
 

quote:

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...after you and Randy where done calling...

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Tim, you truly do need hearing aids. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 05:24 PM:
 
As a audio challenged individual, myself, I have sympathy, Tim.

Good hunting. LB

PS It's cool you guys can speak in code, but it's hard to follow!
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 10, 2009, 07:27 PM:
 
... then this one time, at band camp...

You guys make me look civil!

S Criner, Jay's is a great place. My parents live just outside of Clare and I go to Jay's whenever I visit them.
If I were a good son, I would go and visit them on the weekend you are speaking.
There are a lot of guys up that way that run coyotes with hounds...
You'll be in Amish country when you are up there so watch out for the buggies.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 10, 2009, 08:03 PM:
 
You know the dialogue has deteriorated when smithers is complaining. Even divorce court has fewer charges and counter charges.

Hey yeah! Forgot about the twins. I can't hardly tell them apart, Steve and Pilgrim, except Pilgrim is taller and maybe a little better looking?

Good hunting. LB

edit: Pilgrim, maybe Steve would hire you as his stunt double?

[ January 10, 2009, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Bryan J (Member # 106) on January 11, 2009, 11:38 AM:
 
I don’t know if this has to do with anything here. I once had an opportunity to hunt with a man who has killed more coyotes in a weekend than I kill all year long. (when I was hunting hard) I was given the opportunity to call and managed to bring a pair in, both got to ride home. At the time I was proud, I felt that I had proven that “I could do it” to this guy. In reality, all I did was make some noise and pull the trigger when the moment was right. HE did everything else including directing my attention to the coyotes, stopping the coyotes for the shot, and killing the second coyote on the run while someone else finished off the first coyote. My contribution to the over all success of the stand was minimal. A confession and apology of sorts I guess. That stand is still among my most memorable but for different reasons.
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 16, 2009, 08:48 AM:
 
Kodiak: "It just seems to me (an outsider, new guy, know nothing jackass - there I said it for you guys so you don't have too) that you have some issue with guys who makes DVD's or try to promote themselves. It's not just you really, there are many that share that sentiment on this board. Yet I have seen you and many of them post pics of your/their hunts, is this not the same thing? Is there some tiny tinge of jealousy because you know that you are a better hunter? I'm sure you are (again based on what I have seen you post, some amazing hunts by the way) but these guys have taken the corporate path and are turning their hobby into business. So maybe not jealousy but dislike of our hobby being treated like a business? Whatever it is I would like to know."

You want to know? I'll tell you how I see it. Both Leonard and Q have expressed the same feelings that I would like to expound on.

All three of us and others here carry one thing in common, we were calling and killing coyotes a long time before dvds turned so many into over night heros. The spin from the industry prostitutes is always the same, "ah they're just jealous". ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzazz! Jealous of what???? The "jealousy" comment misses the true mark by miles.

Here's the deal Kodiak since you asked. A genuine predator calling industry prostitute is someone who is very new to the game which is easily recognizeable to someone with a lot of experience based on their techniques. Since the industry prostitute doesn't have their own experiences to draw from, they sell the knowledge that was given to them freely by those with far more experience. In other words they are selling the knowledge from the leg they humped. Due to their arrogance and quest for self promotion ("look at me, look at me"), they don't even bother to acknowledge those who taught them what little they do know. It takes them a long time to finish a dvd because of all the missed shots they feel they need to edit out. Finally, while they pocket the money they make from selling someone else's hard work and knowledge, they fill the country with an army of novice callers which serves to make predator calling far less enjoyable to the person who taught them. That's it in a nutshell.

If that attitude results in a "Pampass know-it-all" title, so be it. That's my feelings just the same. Anyone that ***** someone else's hard work and knowledge for their own personal gain and noterieity without giving credit to those who taught them is a self serving puke as far as I'm concerned.

I want to seperate three guys from this categorization. First, Randy Anderson. Randy called coyotes for a long time and captured those experiences on film for the entertainment of others. Randy didn't seek notoriety, notoriety sought him. Randy is also incredibly entertaining. I hold no ill will towards Randy Anderson what-so-ever.

Second is Les Johnson. Les had lots of coyotes behind him before he took to the big screen. He's selling his own knowledge, hard work, and experience, not the knowledge and experiences of others.

Merv Griswold also had many years of calling experience before he put his experiences on film.

It's not about being on film, it's about the attitude that accompanies it.

The prostitutes are selling the knowledge and experience of someone else for their own personal financial gain and notoriety without even giving credit to those who taught them. That's what turns my stomach but there's nothing I can do about it other than to express that opinion and work harder to outwit the less experienced callers.

Call me whatever you'd like but that's how it's seen by those with experience and it has nothing to do with jealousy. I've had many opportunities to take the same commercial route but I wasn't going to do that to those who taught me. Instead, I'd rather have a handful of serious callers who wanted to improve their game take personal instruction and a handful of close personal friends who appreciated what I taught them for free. I have the self confidence in knowing that I can improve anyone's coyote calling game but I won't do it for free for someone who doesn't understand or appreciate the value.

The strategies that lead to success anymore have more to do with outwitting other callers than outwitting the coyotes. As has been stated, you can't find many coyotes anymore that haven't heard a call by the end of December.

TA,

I'm surprised at anyone who would criticize someone for projecting sounds in various directions. In poker that's called a "tell". It tells me that they don't have enough experience or don't pay enough attention to detail to have heard the difference between sound that is projected away from them as opposed to being projected towards them. Take the additional 30% of coyotes that your sound reaches and chuckle while you are skinning them. I couldn't handle the volume of holding a WT speaker but you don't have as much hearing to lose. Haha!

~SH~
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 16, 2009, 09:14 AM:
 
"I'm surprised at anyone who would criticize someone for projecting sounds in various directions. In poker that's called a "tell". It tells me that they don't have enough experience or don't pay enough attention to detail to have heard the difference between sound that is projected away from them as opposed to being projected towards them. Take the additional 30% of coyotes that your sound reaches and chuckle while you are skinning them. I couldn't handle the volume of holding a WT speaker but you don't have as much hearing to lose. Haha!"
---------------------------------
Today is my 68th birthday. I slept in for too long and my head feels like someone ran over it with a truck. At any rate, I must say that I am surprised at your above words Scott. I am sure that you know that holding a remote controlled caller above your head and swinging it around like a big flag will surely spook coyotes. I see photos in magazines that show camo clad people holding a remote control caller in their hand while actually calling. I just figure that they are either posing for a glamour shot, or maybe just stupid.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on January 16, 2009, 09:42 AM:
 
First, let me wish a Happy Birthday to Rich Cronk! Don't eat too much cake.

Second; Scott, congratulations on your finish in St Francis.

I already mentioned that I have a speaker fore and aft in my hunting truck and didn't explain very much about WHY, but yes, it does have to do with my feeling that the sound coming from a directional cone speaker is received by coyote ears as slightly different. This is slicing it very thin, however. A man could do a lot of coyote hunting without resorting to spinning 360º with a speaker over his head.

Having said that, I also understand the concern expressed by Rich. I think it depends on the application and whether a man could easily be busted doing something like that. It doesn't take much sound for a coyote to stand up and look in the direction of the sound. You take a chance, if he, (the coyote) is close enough to see the movement, etc. In other words, it's a little like pissing in the wind insofar as it may be a relief, but could also get your boots wet. I think you have to know when you can get away with it. It can be very counterproductive, as well.

Good hunting. LB

[ January 16, 2009, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Wiley E (Member # 108) on January 16, 2009, 10:14 AM:
 
My point is that it is important to project your sound 180 degrees as opposed to 90 degrees as many do. Certainly, the additional movement could be a factor if the habitat didn't allow it but I would place greater emphasis on projecting my sound 180 degrees DURING THE INITIAL CALL than worrying about the movement by doing so. If the coyote doesn't hear you, seeing you is irrelevant.

~SH~
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 16, 2009, 10:16 AM:
 
While the last thing I'd do, is back TA up, or put any weight to his "laser beam" theory...

Any one of us that's hearing impaired enough, knows that it makes a big difference if someone is facing you when they talk to you or not.
I also know "it's way louder" on the other side of the horn speaker.

Both Gerry Blair and Gerald Stewart can be seen "broadcasting" by hand, in videos.

"Stupid is, as stupid does..."

I can see where, in big open country it would have it's advantages.
But for me, where I am (much of the time), I've found volume to be the enemy.
And instead I use my e-caller very quietly (wired 40' remote, upwind when alone, or downwind with a partner, who is further downwind), more like a decoy focusing short range attention on a continuous source of sound (rather than motion).

I'll supplement that low volume continuous calling, by "broadcasting" with a hand call, or the occasional howl.

My thinking is, a good hand call can reach out a mile in open country, and a quarter of that in the woods.
And given the slower speed a coyote in the woods is likely to approach, I figure you've got the same estimated time of arrival from the outside of your "circle of loud sounds" until they reach your "inner circle of constant sound".

That 3-5 minutes, depending on how much the terrain can gobble up sound, is when I expect I'll see the coyote coming in about the time he becomes focused on the speaker.

The "trick" I guess, is all in the timing... I blasted a coyote out of a low spot in front of me, last year, not waiting long enough.
He wasn't sure where the sound came from but he was haulin' ass across my view with his head wobblin' around trying to figure it out, and barking only made the lil' dude pick up speed!

I think volume, is overrated.
It's just my opinion, but that's what I think.

Huge thanks go out to Murray Burnham, and on to Rich Cronk, the former taught the latter a special lipsqueak, and it was passed on to me...

That's still my most productive "call".

I'd post a photo and credits, but if you've seen Cronk, once, you've seen enough.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 16, 2009, 10:31 AM:
 
Leonard and Scott both make good points that I understand perfectly. In the area I hunt most of the time, a coyote could be less than 100 yards away, so movement is a very big no-no. Even in the wide open country, a man is taking a very big chance of being busted if he waves a caller around above his head. Now if a man is going to do that, then why in hell would you spend the big bucks for a remote controlled caller? Wouldn't an old fashioned ghetto blaster serve you just as well? Hell yes it would! To each his own I guess. Peace guys, it's my birthday remember?
 

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Posted by Krustyklimber (Member # 72) on January 16, 2009, 02:09 PM:
 
Rich,

I didn't say I agree with the methodology, just the idea.

As for not losing what's great about a remote... FoxPro's SnowPro instantly comes to my mind... four speakers, calling 360°, from over there.

Krusty
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 16, 2009, 02:40 PM:
 
Krustyklimber,
I wasn't aiming at you Krusty. You are correct about the snow crow pro though. As loud as those speakers are, even T.A. could hear em.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 16, 2009, 05:19 PM:
 


[ March 28, 2010, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 16, 2009, 07:57 PM:
 
"I think people give coyotes too much credit about all there sense's."
----------------------------
ROFLMAO, now that is the voice of experience rat there. Hang on guys, I need to wipe the coffee off from my computer screen. I have been saying for at least twenty years now that if you wait long enough, the real truth will come out. It just did. The stand up comic Ron White loves to say " Ya can't fix stupid". He was right.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on January 17, 2009, 03:34 AM:
 
Rich; Happy B'Day & many more to come!!!!!!

Question for ya: Any idea what ever happened to your lil'buddy "Coyote Buster"?? He was a regular drama queen,.....but entertaining.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2009, 06:04 AM:
 
Kokopelli,
I actually don't even remember coyote Buster. He must not have made a real big impression on me?
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 17, 2009, 08:26 AM:
 
Happy Birthday you old fart !

What are you now? About a hundred and six??
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on January 17, 2009, 08:34 AM:
 


[ March 28, 2010, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Randy Roede (Member # 1273) on January 17, 2009, 10:05 AM:
 
Mr Cronk, a Happy Birthday to ya!!! Many more!!
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2009, 10:20 AM:
 
TA17Rem,
I have been a little too hard on you. You have the right to call any way you want to.
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2009, 10:31 AM:
 
Randy Roede,
Thanks for the good wishes. I sure can use em.

Tim Behle,
I turned 68 yesterday. Hey, remember me telling you guys about that Gal who tried to burn my rental house down, and hit my Granson in the head with a hammer on her way out? His Mom is my oldest daugher, and her name is Jean. Jean went over to that Gal,s apartment last night and beat the holy crap out of her. Jean brought a hand full of the Gal,s hair over to show me. That was dumb of Jean to beat the snot out of that girl. She has a hot temper and heavy fists. Her knee did a nasty job on the gals nose too. Jean acts just like her Father sometimes. Sad, very sad.
 

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Posted by Cdog911 (Member # 7) on January 17, 2009, 11:03 AM:
 
Happy belated birthday, Rich. Hope there are many more to come. Sorry to hear that things got to the point where your daughter felt compelled to do that. Unfortunately, one of many lessons I have learned in the past year with my son is that the system has some serious flaws. Somehow, by the grace of God, things are better, but no thanks to the system by any means.

I've come to realize that sometimes, a good ass whoopin' will achieve the desired results better than a lawyer. You do what you need to do.
 

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Posted by Tim Behle (Member # 209) on January 17, 2009, 03:37 PM:
 
Only 68?

You look like you must have at least 40 years of experiance with that Birthday!

I Hope you had a good one, You old Fart !
 

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Posted by Rich (Member # 112) on January 17, 2009, 07:59 PM:
 
"Only 68?

You look like you must have at least 40 years of experiance with that Birthday!"
-----------------------------------
Time Behle,
Yes and I often FEEL like it also.
 

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Posted by smithers (Member # 646) on January 18, 2009, 06:50 PM:
 
Happy Birthday Mr. Cronk, sir!
Old is as old does and ya can't fix old!
 

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Posted by kodiak61 (Member # 3255) on January 18, 2009, 08:51 PM:
 
Good explanation Wiley. Thanks for taking the time to post that.

Les Johnson is a great guy in my opinion as well. When I met him I was really impressed with him as a person first, the a predator caller. Looks you in the eye's and makes you feel like he is actually interested in what your saying. Very nice guy needless to say. I can probably list him as one of my favorites in the industry that I have met so far.
 

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