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Author Topic: The New Huntmastersbbs!2:Next falls crop....your thoughts? Baldknobber Knows what it's all about Member # 514 posted May 07, 2006 02:59 PM                    There are several older guys who hunt coyotes with hounds here in S. Missouri. I grew up around most of them but never picked up the sport myself. Awhile back a couple of them approached me. They were not too happy about me killing the coyotes where they run their dogs. They like to hunt in about a 8-10 square mile area that has several roads close together so they can drive around and cut off the coyotes. I hunt the same area with permission from all the landowners. I took 12 of my 19 coyotes this winter from this area. ALL of these 12 were mature coyotes....no juveniles. My thinking is this: we know that if the population is depressed that the coyotes' internal instinct is to have more pups. This fall after depressing the population in this area, won't their be a large crop of juvenile coyotes to replace the ones that were taken? Won't these juveniles be easier to call and hunt with hounds, benefitting the houndmen as wwll as myself? What do you guys think? [ June 08, 2006, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ] -------------------- JTBMO Posts: 202 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged Cdog911 "There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell. Member # 7 posted May 07, 2006 04:08 PM                       I think your friends need to learn that the coyotes belong to anyone that the landowner gives permission to. I live amongst greyhound hunters and, to their credit, they give me my room and I give them theirs. If they see my truck in an area, they often will move 4-5 miles further up the way and give me plenty of room to ply my trade. As far as the impact of hunting on coyotes, it's pretty well documented that coyotes exhibit compensatory mechanisms both with respect to natality and mortality. As coyote densities decrease, females are first bred at an earlier age, more puppies are whelped, and more of those puppies will be female. As the pop'n increases, first breeding will come at 2 years old rather than one, litter size will decrease, and a higher proportion will be male. At the pop'n level, I welcome hunting around my area, above and beyond my take. I usually end up entertaining a number of requests each season to help guys get started. For years, I gave them enough info to get a start, but purposely withheld a lot of the good stuff that would allow them to close the deal. Two seasons ago, I changed my approach and told guys that I would give them the help they needed to call the coyote as long as they did what needed to be done to kill it once it got there. I wanted no educated coyotes. It worked. Guys started killing more coyotes, and as has been the case throughout my lifetime, the more hunting there was, the more coyotes there seemed to be the next year. Didn't make much sense that the more you took, the more there was left, but it was true. Then I got to talking with Higgins about it. Imagine a land area 10 square miles in size. For years, the same alpha dog has lived there and, over time, has amassed this much land. He has a pack consisting of, let's say, 10 coyotes, including himself, his bitch, 3 betas and five yearling pups. Along comes Baldknobber and whacks that top dog. Chaos reigns and those 10 square miles are all of a sudden up for grabs. Each of the betas fights it out to see who will become the new top dog. One wins and the other two forge out on their own. Unable to defend the entire original territory, he reclaims, say, four, while the other six are equally divided into smaller territories for the other two. Now you have three territories where one previously existed. Each of those three territories produces five pups the following spring after the two displaced betas find mates, and now the population for the original land mass has gone from 10 coyotes to 3 packs of seven each, or 21. Of course, this is a grossly oversimplified version of what really happens, and there are God only knows how many other variables, both intrinsic and extrinsic, that factor into the actual numbers, but it pretty much explains what I've seen over the years in my area (Kansas) and was the results of a study by someone I can't recall right now. Main point: Don't let my landowners know about it because they believe that the more I kill, the less remain. In truth, the more I kill, the more I kill. I hunt like hell, shoot like crazy, and all the while, bank on job security. -------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do. Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted May 07, 2006 05:02 PM                   I think you need to tell your friends to piss up a rope and learn how to hunt some other way than from the damned road!! Your coyote population will be just fine. I have killed 10-20, average around 16, from a series of farms that make up about a 2 square miles several years in a row, and there always has been a plenty. That doesnt include the ones the road hunters got.... -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Cdog911 "There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell. Member # 7 posted May 07, 2006 05:09 PM                       Hey Andy, I prefer, "Sit down and pour yourself a warm, steaming cup of kiss my white ass.", but that's just me. Always gets a warm response. -------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do. Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged The Outdoor Tripp Knows what it's all about Member # 619 posted May 07, 2006 05:25 PM                       You guys are way too verbose. I prefer the standard two-word reply. -------------------- The Outdoor Tripp www.theoutdoortripp.com "All great truths begin as blasphemies." Posts: 805 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted May 07, 2006 05:31 PM                   -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Cdog911 "There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell. Member # 7 posted May 07, 2006 06:29 PM                       If nothing else, ol' Baldknobber should be damned proud that he single-handedly is able to do to the coyotes in Missouri what the government has been trying to do for generations - eliminate them. Do tell how you do that. -------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do. Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cowboyvon Knows what it's all about Member # 854 posted May 08, 2006 07:27 AM                       Hi guys I'm new here but have lurked for a while butI hunt coyotes with speeddogs but I do it a little different, a little more traditional, on horse back and calling. Anyway I'm in southern New Mexico and I don't see how we can have many at all next year if we don't get some rain. We have been in a drought for 7 or 8 years some of the country side is starting to look like the moon. Between the drought and them flying the plane it might be tough. -------------------- http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted May 08, 2006 07:35 AM                   Hey Cowboy! Welcome! Yeah, your way of hound hunting is definitely different from what I see here. Your way is as challenging as it gets. I dont know how your area holds up a population with the air gunners. Thats gotta be disheartening for folks that like to sport hunt coyotes..... Glad to see ya. Andy -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted May 08, 2006 11:23 AM                       Welcome to the New Huntmasters, cowboyvon. Glad to have you on board. Seem's familiar, the name? Are you from Bruce's hound hunting board? Anyway, I am familiar with your area, and I think you are doing it the only way possible, you can't drive a vehicle cross country like they can in farm land. Good hunting. LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cowboyvon Knows what it's all about Member # 854 posted May 08, 2006 04:18 PM                       Good to see you here Andy.. Thanks Leonard, Yeah I was over at Bruces board and I still go over there just dosen't seem the same. I guess more than anything else I'm a dog man and love to hunt with the dogs and calling and running coyotes with these dogs kinda goes together. I team rope so I know most of the ranchers so I get permision to go just about where I want.. and with the plane costing $200.00 or more per hr most kinda like to see me come out. -------------------- http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged Baldknobber Knows what it's all about Member # 514 posted May 08, 2006 04:53 PM                    I would to try to explain what Lance said in his first post to the houndmen, but you just cant fight stupid. Hopefully this fall when the dispersal takes place the old guys will begin to see the light. The landowners are on my side because I actually kill the coyotes. The houndmen with the exception of two individuals all kill coyotes only if their dogs catch or bay them. They get tired of the hunters running them and not shooting them. -------------------- JTBMO Posts: 202 | From: Missouri | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged Cdog911 "There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell. Member # 7 posted May 08, 2006 05:17 PM                       Baldknobber, I wouldn't say stupid, as much as selfish and subjective in their approach. If the landowners want them dead, then the dog runners just don't fill the bill. I'd just keep doing as you're doing and if they go to the property owners to throw a hissy fit, I'm sure the landowners themselves will set them straight. Mine sure aren't short for words with wannabes. -------------------- I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do. Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted May 08, 2006 05:42 PM                   Bald, I have a hard time with the dog runnin road hunters around here, if you cant tell. I would dare one to come tell me I shouldnt kill coyotes where they hunt. They are tresspassing more than not. They use the old MO law that they cant control where their dogs go to shelter them. The bastards will get permission to hunt 40 acres and drop their dogs there so they can hunt the world around them. I didnt get to it this winter. If work will let me, they got a surprise coming. I have permission to hunt tons of land around there. And, I got access to a spotting scope that hooks to a video camera. I have talked with the game warden and he is looking forward to lots of footage of people pursuing animals up and down the road and shooting from the road. He cant slip up on them. They spot him and radio each other to watch their actions. However, they wont see me way off catching them on tape. I cant wait to burn their asses. -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged JD HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault! Member # 768 posted May 08, 2006 08:12 PM                   Hey Cowboy, how have ya been. One of these days there`s gonna be a knock at your door & it`s gonna be Andy & myself begging to go see those dogs in action. I sure do like that country of yours. Andy, I thought you kissed & made up with those road hunters. ....bastards. -------------------- Jason -------------------------------------- What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!! Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted May 09, 2006 12:11 AM                       Hey JD. Could you shoot me an email? -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Andy L HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER! Member # 642 posted May 09, 2006 04:20 AM                   JD, as long as we can go thru Quemado on the way... and on the way back, Im game. Nope, aint made up with those inbred bastards and wont. Piss on em. [ May 09, 2006, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: Andy L ] -------------------- Andy Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Kokopelli SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice Member # 633 posted May 09, 2006 05:59 AM                      Andy, one word.......snares!!! You wouldn't have to actually set any. Hell, you wouldn't even need to buy any. Just get permission from the owners to use them & let the 'coffee shop conversations' do the rest. Shouldn't take long for the dog guys to get real nervous & for you to be one hated s.o.b. Check six, often!! It's a shame that outdoor groups can't seem to play well together. I once had a quail hunter who was trespassing complain to the game warden about my traps... that were set on private land with the blessing of the rancher. -------------------- And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it. Posts: 7580 | From: Under a wandering star | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged Cowboyvon Knows what it's all about Member # 854 posted May 09, 2006 06:37 AM                       Good to see you JD, You guys are always welcome.. Quemado not much there but some pretty country.. must be a story in there somewhere Out here the conditions aren't too good for running scent hounds on coyotes at least not like those guys do it back there.I have premission for most of the ranchs even though it is mostly public or BLM land and you don't really need it, if they see someone riding there horse through there cows with some dogs they get a little concerned about rustling.. its still done out here. Andy, Somthing else you could do is get some of the signs that they have to put up around here when they use the m-44s.. just the signs not the poison. I know when I see those I won't let any dogs out -------------------- http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged JD HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault! Member # 768 posted May 09, 2006 08:31 AM                   Quemado has the best damn Navajo taco I`ve ever had in my life, O.K., I guess it`s the only Navajo taco I`ve ever had....but it was some of the most incredible food, worth the trip anyway. Bret, you could give chase with dogs fairly easy in the northern half of NE. & never be on a different ranch from where you started but down here you might have 4 different land owners in the same mile section. I`d sure like the sort of hunting that you do but I`d need to drive 1 1/2 hrs to do it so I suppose I`d better not bring home any speed dogs....yet. -------------------- Jason -------------------------------------- What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!! Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted May 09, 2006 09:49 AM                       Quemado? Wow, I thought that was my little secret? LB -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cowboyvon Knows what it's all about Member # 854 posted May 09, 2006 09:53 AM                       JD, Some of the best coyote dogs around come from the Nebraska Sand Hills.. I believe there are still a few up there that do it like I do..best running country around.. -------------------- http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged Az-Hunter Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here Member # 17 posted May 09, 2006 01:37 PM                   I'll say it again....the day of "secret places" is long gone my friend:) Von; you runnin' your pony around that country shod, or barefoot? Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Leonard HMFIC Member # 2 posted May 09, 2006 01:56 PM                       oh boy! Here we go again! -------------------- EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All. Don't piss me off! Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged Cowboyvon Knows what it's all about Member # 854 posted May 09, 2006 02:43 PM                       I think I've been involved in this one on another board before.. I put Iron on all my horses that I'm riding out. Granted if all I did was stay out in the flats or in the arena they probably wouldn't need it, but I like to go out and ride the hills and bust rock sometimes. I know there are some horses that might not need shoes but most do. I've heard it said about the wild horses and how good there feet are and I'm sure that’s somewhat true but we don't see the ones that get crippled and natural selection has had something to do with how tough there feet are. The horses I ride I'm sure don't have near as tough of feet, but I know those wild ponies can't do what our horses do. They talk about this natural stuff but we ask our horses to do some pretty unnatural stuff over and over again. Besides I use my horses for alot of things and I ride most everyday [ May 09, 2006, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Cowboyvon ] -------------------- http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged

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