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Author
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Topic: The New Huntmastersbbs!2:Next falls crop....your thoughts?
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JD
HONORARY OKIE .... and Tim's at fault!
Member # 768
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posted May 09, 2006 03:11 PM
Bret, looks like you & your partner have that one under control, 2003 Red Rock, how did you end up?
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Jason
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What do Obama & TA17Rem have in common........both are clueless asshats!!!
Posts: 1456 | From: NE. | Registered: Dec 2005
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Cowboyvon
Knows what it's all about
Member # 854
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posted May 09, 2006 03:16 PM
We ended up 2nd.. it payed $2,800.00 per man so it was a good payday.. he got out good and stuck it on one and I closed my eyes got lucky and caught 2 feet ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA
Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted May 09, 2006 05:58 PM
Nice cat, dude.
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 09, 2006 06:13 PM
Now Leonard......It was a serious question, not a bait job. Ive seen many a photo of Von out in that rough NM ranch country, and was curious as to his foot care for his stock, simple as that.
As to the lion, looks like that little female was a long way from home? caught out in the big middle of that desert country? Gawd, I bet you were surprised to see what your dogs were tangling with!
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cdog911
"There are some ideas so absurd only an intellectual could believe them."--George Orwell.
Member # 7
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posted May 09, 2006 07:49 PM
I was about to ask if the dogs took that one down or was it called. On a couple different occasions, I saw greyhounds dumped on a coyote that headed to cover only to have a poor, unwitting bobcat end up ass deep in the middle of things. You'd think they could do a better job of protecting themselves, but they don't have near the hang time of a coyote. The dogs usually have them fragged in less than ten seconds. Now, I realize a cougar would be something else entirely, and something I'd pay good money for a front row seat.
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I am only one. But still, I am one. I cannot do everything, but still, I can do something; and, because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.
Posts: 5438 | From: The gun-lovin', gun-friendly wild, wild west | Registered: Jan 2003
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 10, 2006 05:23 AM
My business partner and I found Quemado by accident about a year ago. We were passing thru about breakfast time and stopped at the busier of the two cafes to eat. It was fantastic.
So, when JD and I went thru, I insisted on stopping. Again, fantastic. We kinda talked about basing a vacation/hunt out of there. Stay at the motel across the street so we could eat there three meals a day.... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 10, 2006 05:24 AM
Oh, and Vic, bullshit, Im not in the mood, might as well put your pole up. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Cowboyvon
Knows what it's all about
Member # 854
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posted May 10, 2006 06:52 AM
I think she came to the call and the dogs winded her in the brush I rode up thinking it was a coyote and was pretty shocked I think the dogs didn't get hurt because they ran her aways on the ground and she she was small.. she did fight pretty good though. But they sure don't have the hang time of a coyote. I shot her with my pistol but she wasn't going to live anyway. If she had been in a tree I would have left her there and saved my tag.
I knew some were in that area, they pass through often there just hard to hunt cause its so dry. There is a pretty good deer population and I've seen some tracks before.
AZ hunter.. is that Vic from J-H and Vic fame ?
Ok I took the bait now your turn... whats your opinion... shod or barefoot..?
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http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA
Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006
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Andy L
HI, I'M THE NEW MODERATOR OF THE CENTRAL MISSOURI FORUM, PULL MY FINGER!
Member # 642
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posted May 10, 2006 07:42 AM
The one and only Brett....
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Andy
Posts: 2645 | From: Central Missouri | Registered: Apr 2005
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Az-Hunter
Hi, I'm Vic WELCOME TO THE U.S. Free baloney sandwiches here
Member # 17
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posted May 10, 2006 07:43 AM
Well Von, when Im out hunting or working, I slip on my Justin lace up work boots; if Im just lounging around the place, moving water hoses, enjoying the day etc......I'll go barefoot.
Posts: 1627 | From: 5 miles west of Tim | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cowboyvon
Knows what it's all about
Member # 854
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posted March 04, 2014 10:28 AM
lol... both trucks broke down and I'm down here in the flats .... blast from the past hope everyone is still killing coyotes .... so here you go I catch a lion down in these flats every 6 years or so and now I ride mules but I still put shoes on them ..
[IMG]  [/IMG]
[ March 04, 2014, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Cowboyvon ]
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http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtVDfG3GPTm8FbNY0Bb-oBA
Posts: 23 | From: Rincon NM | Registered: May 2006
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 04, 2014 03:37 PM
Good looking dogs...well fed too!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I called in a lion in flats just like that, once. Quite a cluster fuck, didn't even get a shot!
[ March 04, 2014, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted March 04, 2014 04:29 PM
Good to see some new guys around.
But to the original post... It ain't so everywhere. I have lowered the coyote populations where I work to an all time low, maybe since 1080 days. Litters arent any bigger. And I actually check and know my litter numbers, in dozens of pairs every year. Killed by me, or the plane, or the chopper or whatever. There are less and less coyotes every year in a well run control program. Not more. More coyotes just means weekend warriors out calling. Not an actual control. Control means just that.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted March 05, 2014 08:53 PM
3 Toes, are you seeing any change in the age demographics of the breeding bitches in your district over the years?
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted March 06, 2014 03:20 AM
Look who dropped in? Trevor hasn't posted since 02-27-2005.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
Posts: 31462 | From: Upland, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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3 Toes
El Guapo
Member # 1327
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posted March 06, 2014 05:50 AM
The coyote population as a whole is younger. We rarely kill an "old" coyote. 2 and 3 year olds are the normal breeding pairs. Once in a while you will find an older pair that showed up from one of the few places (like coal mines) we can't go. The part some don't understand ismwhen you have access to almost everywhere in a county and very few coyotes you can't go after, you can lower numbers drastically. If there was a group of 10 (which would never happen here) and I trapped 4 or 5 of them in the fall, then the plane picked up 3 more in thhe winter, then I called and shot the remaining pair in the spring, there's none or maybe one left. And you do similar with all the territories bordering that and just keep expanding that, and the neighboring counties are doing similarly, all of the sudden there are very few coyotes. Not more.
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Violence may not be the best option....
But it is still an option.
Posts: 1034 | From: out yonder | Registered: Apr 2007
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booger
TOO BIG TO FAIL
Member # 3602
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posted March 06, 2014 11:03 AM
Don’t know how it is in Lance’ territory, but about 90 miles west, it has taken me about 15 years to re-educate landowners what my definition of the term ‘coyote hunting’ is.
I don’t have anything against dog hunters, but they did more to screw up hunter/landowner relations than anything I have ever seen here in Central Kansas.
Most of the guys had rigged brush guards with cutters on them where they could take off through a ditch and head out through the fence to run the coyote. Some of them came back to fix the fence, some didn’t…therein lay the problem with the landowner. I can still drive around in my home territory and see fence splices here and there.
The CRP program cut a lot of that out since there is not SUPPOSED to be any vehicle traffic in those fields.
With that said, most of the old dog hunters are gone and I don’t think I have seen a dog wagon in the areas I hunt since the late 70’s.
I am not a shrinking violet by any means, but the first time I saw a pack haul down a coyote, it stayed with me for a long time. I think I was 12.
It wasn’t the dogs working the coyote over, but the dog owner waded into the fray and beat the teeth out of the coyote with a ball peen hammer so his younger dogs could get some work without getting bitten. I have never heard an animal make a sound like that since…
[ March 06, 2014, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: booger ]
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If we ever forget we are one Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under--Ronald Reagan
Posts: 911 | From: Bob Dole Country | Registered: Apr 2010
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TRnCO
FUTURE HALL OF FAMER
Member # 690
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posted March 06, 2014 03:40 PM
I grew up around grey hounds, got a brother and cousin that still run 'em. Not once have I ever seen a truck with a "fence cutter" on the front and the only fence I've ever seen anyone go through was a hot wire that would get put back up after the fact.
Also never seen anyone ever bash teeth out of a coyote to protect any dogs. Pups learn real quick where the business end of a caught coyote is, they don't need someone helpin' em.
A hammer to the head, sure, for a quick dispatch, but nothing else.
But then again, the dog bunch that I grew up around were and still are farmers. SO, I guess that don't mean there aren't bad apples in the bunch that do that kind of crap.
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Is it hunting season yet? I hate summer!
Posts: 996 | From: Elizabeth, CO | Registered: Aug 2005
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted March 06, 2014 07:21 PM
How ya been Leonard? I'm an inconsistent lurker. Don't have anything worthwhile to contribute.
Thanks for the response 3 Toes. I figured along those lines on the age structure, but had no idea the landscape scale population reduction that's been achieved up there. My hat's off to you for it.
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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TOM64
Knows what it's all about
Member # 561
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posted March 06, 2014 09:16 PM
Interesting thread, I don't know nothing about much of anything but I do know that if the country supports a few coyotes, kill em out and more will move in.
My uncle has always said he kills one coyote, two come to the funeral and decide to stay.
Posts: 2283 | From: okieland | Registered: Feb 2005
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Wily E
unknown comic
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posted March 08, 2014 09:07 AM
I don't know where this "the more coyotes you kill the more coyotes there are" theory ever originated because it doesn't hold water in many areas. Sure is a popular phrase amongst certain segments of the biological community. With that said, I am sure it applies to many areas but certainly not all areas.
Food availability, habitat, recruitment (dispersion), and mortality combined will determine a given coyote population, not harvest in and of itself.
When I worked in SD, before the GF&P anti predator control Nazis irreversibly screwed the ADC program up (as documented by NASS predator loss statistics), we checked female coyotes for 25 years in all corners of the state and in all coyote population trends. Every year we showed a 5.5 average litter size on a statewide basis. Every single year.
This was during large mange epidemics and during a time when effective, well trained ADC men had depleted coyote populations in certain counties to the point where 2 coyotes would win a local coyote calling contest. Real coyote population control measures.
Litter size does not increase due to decreases in the coyote population on a large scale basis (the exception does not the rule make). The factor that does have an impact on coyote population dynamics is the number of yearling females that breed. The two factors influencing that are food availability and the coyote population as well as the age structure of that population. This was backed with research from Steve Allen in ND who adhered to the philosophy that all good research leads to more questions than answers. I concur.
The one thing I have seen as well as others in the last year or so is mature female coyotes that didn't breed, mature female coyotes that showed signs of being bred and never had their pups, and mature female coyotes that lost their pups shortly after birth and were already haired over by mid summer (parvo???). This was determined based on an examination of their reproductive tracts. Until last year, I had never seen a healthy adult (2+ year) female coyote that was not bred. Corresponding with that was a significant number of coyotes that did not need fleshing during the winter months. I have never seen either of these circumstances occur ever in many years of killing coyotes at any other time proving that anything is possible.
It's almost incomprehensible to believe that food availability (mice, rabbits, carrion, game, livestock, etc.) was so depleted in such a large geographical area that coyotes actually had difficulties finding food and couldn't travel far enough to find greener pastures but, for whatever reason, that is exactly what occurred in a pretty large geographical area as proven by the body fat content of many coyotes during winter months. Sounds crazy but you cannot argue with an observation like reduced body fat or it's cause. As in cattle or other animals, when nutrition suffers, reproduction is the first thing to go. Anyone who has ever bred a bunch of heifers knows they breed best when they are on a gain unless they are too fat to begin with.
In the area I am currently working, in large part due to 3 toes and an excellent pilot's efforts before me, this past fur season I put on 9000 miles on my truck in two months and saw 2 coyotes out of the pickup window. You better believe you can get ahead of the coyote population if you have the resources, good predator control programs that surround you, and a little help from nature. 30 coyotes doesn't seem like much in a month and a half of hard trapping with a partner unless you can relate to what low coyote populations are really like. This area doesn't have any appeal to recreational coyote hunters and doesn't attract local coyote calling contests but lamb losses to coyotes are at all time lows according to ranchers in the area. If it was really true that the more you killed, the more there were, there wouldn't be any lambs left to sell. Think about that.
~SH~
[ March 08, 2014, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Wily E ]
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted March 08, 2014 02:45 PM
I see the hounds as not just well fed but made right. They look old school kind a like hounds out of the 70's heavier bodies. The ones that look like walker's or a little to open colored for me. But that's just me and it don't mean they can't get the job done. The blue dogs look very nice. that one blue tick on the out side left looks rather leggy. And is always nice to see a hounds that still has ears!
They make me think of hounds like Finley River Chief, Hershberger's Kansas Babe and Kansas Spot. Or even hounds out of Johnsons Banjo. There's a few others I just can't come up with any more names.
Do you ever bred to any of the modern coon hounds or just breed big game hounds to big game hounds?
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Cayotaytalker
DOES NOT TEACH/SUSPECTED OKIE
Member # 1954
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posted March 08, 2014 02:52 PM
For got I was going to ask do any of those blue dogs still have any blood out of Dale Camron's Blue ticks?
I doubt I got his name right but he would always run an add in Full Cry Magazine back when the mag was all about coon hounds.
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Now thats prime coyote country!
Posts: 403 | From: LasVegas Nevada | Registered: Oct 2007
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WhiteMtnCur
Knows what it's all about
Member # 5
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posted March 09, 2014 07:48 AM
The farce that bitch coyotes produce bigger litters under pressure comes from a Knowlton study published in 1972. How it ever made it past peer review and got published is beyond me. If it wasn’t the middle of calving season and two weeks from a few thousand head of ewes turning out on trail, I would dig through these binders and find it.
In the study area, a placental count was done to get a baseline, then ADC aerial hunted the hell out of the area which the study called “increased predator control intensity” or something along those lines. We all know that in rough/mountainous country where a plane can only hunt the valleys, the aerial hunting disproportionately takes more young coyotes. So the post-predator control analysis showed increased average number of placental scars.
Well, no shit Fred... The first sample encompassed 1-8 year old bitches and had a true average. After a bunch of aerial hunting that knocked out a disproportionate number of 1-3 year old bitches that have smaller litters, the placental scar counts increased. And thus the study concluded there’s a magic switch in a bitch coyote’s head that she can flip if she perceives there is “increased control” going on.
Knowlton published a study in the 1980’s that disproved his earlier assessment, but it’s failed to see much publicity. Crabtree has written a couple papers pointing out all the holes in Knowlton’s theory (which I think is just a dig at Knowlton who Crabtree dislikes).
The assertion is bullshit but every pro-coyote/anti predator control group regurgitates it like gospel. Even that turncoat Niemeyer spoke out against it a couple years ago.
In the area Wiley E and 3 Toes are referencing, are those sheep open-pastured or are they range bands?
Posts: 97 | From: Nevada | Registered: Jan 2003
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