This is topic Cantankerous Old Fart Bitches in forum Firearms forum at The New Huntmastersbbs!.
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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2024, 07:30 AM:
Something that has always irked me is "BORE SNAKES"!
It's like sectioned cleaning rods, which are for strictly amateurs. Full length one piece cleaning rods are the only way to go. Some are built like a fucking Swiss watch and priced accordingly. I have, I don't know for sure, about a dozen cleaning rods, various lengths. I actually have a 3 piece aluminum shotgun cleaning rod, so that don't count.
But, a Bore Snake? What the fuck is that good for? And yet, it seems to be a hot item? Go figure?
I bet Victor will jump in here and brag about how the only cleaning rod he uses on his 308 is a Bore Snake! That figures!
End of rant!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 22, 2024, 08:35 AM:
Pretty close for a mild pass in sarcasm Leonard!
I use a flexible coated stainless steel cleaning rod. Rolls up nice and tidy into a small cordura pouch I can take anywhere and not worry about bending or breaking.
Screw on whatever attachment needed, brush or jag for a patch. Feed one end thru breach, pull thru form muzzle.
Never worry about scratching, bending rod,easy peasy. I have several high end one piece rods, just never fuck with anymore.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 22, 2024, 08:57 AM:
I tried one bore snake once which was enough. they have like a little dics. to scrape out the carbon I guess and then the brush. Dropped the string through the bore and got about halfway then the fucken string broke! Now what? Had to use a one-piece rod and tap it through to get the rest of string and brush out. Might be ok for pistols but not long barrel rifles. One-piece rods all I use and when I got a 3-piece rod with my AR I tossed that in the garbage.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2024, 02:38 PM:
First, TA gets it! I know, I know, I'm as surprised as anybody.
Second, I forgot about that springy coil up gadget Vic uses in his 308. But I meant the rope pull Bore Snakes. So Touché Amigo!
Good hunting. El Bee
Next my pet peeve where Gun Magazines are constantly reviewing UGLY foreign rifles! Weird contours and changing barrels, for whatever reason? Who the hell wants a rifle with 6 different chambers and bore sizes, and then most people will want totally different scopes for vastly different missions, But, no thought at all given to any traditional styling, these rifles are just bizarre looking and all the gun writers pump them up like they are being paid a big bonus/which they are, so is this honest reporting?
And then, $2,500, $3,500 when you can get a Ruger American for (what? $500?) And you will recognize it as a rifle, not a Star Wars Weapon. Is Bergara the name? Something like that?
And, with American Shyster Lawyers suing American firearm manufacturers into bankruptcy, I know it's difficult to find a new American rifle to review, and even so, they all cost at least $1,200.
And that reminds me of another bitch. I was at Lowe's a couple days ago, forget why but I passed by a display of Craftsman tools. Has inflation got so far out of hand that a crummy little 1/4" ratchet was listed at $35! According to that yardstick, I need to transfer my tools from the garage to the fucking gun safe! I couldn't believe the prices, 1/4, 3/8th and 1/2" ratchets! The prices are astronomical!
No fucking wonder that more and more tools are behind glas so that wetbacks can't steal them!
I'm otter here
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I bought a KaBar US Marine Corps fighting knife favored by that Maniac Brian Kohberger. from Walmart. It's a formidable weapon @ $100. I sure as hell didn't need it, I've already got more than I need.
[ March 22, 2024, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on March 22, 2024, 04:20 PM:
Craftsman stuff is made in chyna now too. Sad.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 22, 2024, 04:34 PM:
Not sure of the Name maybe "Blazer" a rifle made in Europe. Interchangeable barrels and a straight pull Bolt. Wish they chambered in something I could use here that rifle is wicked fast for chambering a fresh round. Ruger I believe was going to come out with a clone to it and yes, it's going be pricey, but I want one.
As for Bergara is made in states but barrel made in South America I believe. It's a clone of the Rem. 700 and the one I have shoots small cloverleaf groups so what's not to like.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 22, 2024, 06:37 PM:
Not to like the price!
And, I heard that Bergara outfit is Spanish and they have made barrels for quite a few American brands. But, I don't know for sure?
I also saw an article about a Springfield rifle for $2,200 and I think they are made in Croatia?
I choose to blame run away inflation on BIDEN! Everything is sky high! At the grocery store, just about every dollar item is now two dollars! I never used to even look at prices, the first thing I throw away is all the ads in the mail, but I have to buy shit at the store and it has suddenly dawned on me that prices are going was up for no apparent reason?
Good hunting. El Bee
PS I jus saw an ad for 410shotgun shells $100 a box! All shotgum shells are getting rediculous, and I don't hand load shotgun. I've got a fucking case of Dove loads (lead) that I'm afraid to use!
See that's a case of not nipping the bastards in the bud. I knew it when theu first outlawed lead in the Sespe range because the fucking condors were eating all this lead from hunters leaving bodies laying around and those birds are discriminating, to hell with rabbit flesh, no! Yummy! they eat the fucking lead BB's.
Well look at how Lead ammo has become a WEDGE ISSUE! Now, Tungsten and steel and Bismuth and mono copper. I'm telling you, next to CLIMATE CHANGE, LEAD POISONING is the latest big fucking lie! And, we don't fight back! Whay ever LIBERALS tell us, we fall in line, YES SIR, whatever you say! And it's all bogus data. It's exactly like GLOBAL WARMING, .03 degrees increase by the year 2100! And people have committed subside because there's nothing left to live for. Who was that retard that set himself on fire in front of (what was it?) the Supreme Court? Or some other Federal building?
We have TONS of Liberal whackos out there. Many young couples are choosing not to have children because of....CLIMATE CHANGE! These fucking Liberals will believe anything! If I didn't see it with my own two eyes, I wouldn't believe the PANIC caused by COVID 19!
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 07:32 AM:
Well i put the blame on elections as well as covid which was just another kick in the pants. Every dam election some fucks get scared and start a fucken buying spree which cause a short supply which in turn brings prices up and everyone is paying for the increase so they can get their stuff. So now the companies know there is no limit, so they just keep jacking the shit up in price. Best thing to do is stop buying and let the warehouses fill up and then the prices are going to drop or get back to normal.
Take those 2000.00 suppressors, many want one so they overpay for them and going to take years before the price drops to where it should be or then again never will.
When I bought both my thermals, I waited till the prices peaked and then when the demand for them dropped as well as the price then I jumped on it. And many guys now want to update to the next generation and asking the same price for their used one as I paid for new at lesser price.
Some guys just have to have that new upgrade so I'm just waiting them out and may pick up another for little or nothing. As I say drop the price or sit on it I don't care.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2024, 07:42 AM:
I read an article in Peterson's Hunting yesterday. I think it was a Clymer for between $6,800 and $8,000. Depending on options.
That's getting ridiculous. It was just a nice gun, very accurate, the article claimed? Well, hell! That's good enough for me and it will allow me to shoot bug holes so think about it? The price is a minor thing, but what about pride of ownership? Maybe if you left the price tag hanging from the trigger guard like, umm what the hell was her name? Minnie Pearl! I never watched the Grand Old Opre myself. It was real popular with the southern guys in the Army. There was a radio show called Hillbilly Reveille. Literally, blasting all over the Base, starting right at 6 A.M. It drove everybody else nuts! Anyway, that was down Memory Lane, for a minute.
But come on, I appreciate a Ferarri just like anybody but they cost as much as a freaking house. I can kill coyotes and Mule deer with a more modest rifle, I think?
Another thing; I am absolutely sick and tired of all the fucking CAMO rifles, these days! Do we really need our "weapon" to disappear for a game animal. They are so sharp eyed that you might give everything away if your stock was painted a solid color! Why take a chance? Having your rifle in Mossy Oak or whatever the patented color scheme, that's a confidence builder, for sure!
I'm done!
Good hunting.
El Bee
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 08:04 AM:
Actually Tim Suppressor prices have come down quite a bit in recent years you can get a good suppressor now for $500. When I bought mine several years ago it was over $1000. Prices have definitely gone nuts on guns though, I paid around $450 for my CZ 527 in .204 Ruger 8 or 9 years ago now you can’t find a CZ 527 for less than $1500. Crazy times
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 23, 2024, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 08:04 AM:
Yes, Leonard barrels are made in Bergara Spain. During their barrel making process they polish inside of the barrel before they cut the rifle grooves, thus getting rid of any tool marks made when barrel dia. was drilled, they also have a tighter tolerance when checking barrel for straightness. I think all the rifles built also come threaded on the muzzle for either a muzzle brake or for a suppressor. Mine is threaded and came with a protective cap. Right from box the trigger pull is nice, and it comes with bolt release mounted on side of the action just like some of the custom actions built today. Mine also has the flush mounted quick release sling studs that are on the side of the stock so it's more comfortable to carry on long walks. (I like them)
The comb on stock is adjustable as well as the stock can be shimmed for length of pull. My gun also came with a removable mag. which can be a pain in ass I guess to load when you use more than 3 rounds as each shell is stacked in line but its also ok, feeds reliable, and same for extraction.
Comes with the Picconi scope base which is big plus as I can go from one thermal I have to the other and make a quick change and then just dial the numbers back into the thermal for that rifle. Both scopes have a 3-gun memory. My set up is little heavy but I don't carry it far and it rests nice in a tripod. Bergara makes a lighter hunting version, but I have not seen one yet.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 08:15 AM:
Yes, Chad agree prices have come down on some from what friend told me so I have it on the backburner for now. Scheels all sports handles all the paperwork now for them here and last I heard some of paperwork came back in two month's. Yes gun prices today are nuts. I paid just little over 800 for the Bergara and think they are selling now for 1k.
Funny thing WT came down on prices with same sounds they had 20 some years ago that still call coyotes and now Fox pro has gone way up on their new caller X-24 and MFK sounds. think they cost around 800 bucks now. And nothing changed with them you still have to send some of them back after you get one. LOL They are doing well on keeping up with that reputation!.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 09:03 AM:
They all cost about the same simple internet search will tell you that.
Foxpro X24 with any 100 sounds $549.99
Lucky Duck Roughneck with 143 sounds $549.99
WT Mighty Atom Laut with 126 sounds $589.00
https://allpredatorcalls.com/
Wildlifetech.com
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 23, 2024, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 11:12 AM:
correction 625.00 and 615.00 X-24 & 1052. But did see it listed at 800.00 on MFK site or similar. Wasn't shopping for any but one was pictured with a price tag so that's what I went by.
P.S. I think if you get it from MFK with their sounds the prices goes up on the x24.
[ March 23, 2024, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 12:15 PM:
I Just looked on the MFK website. Looks to be a good deal on there X-24 callers. $615.99 and that includes 100 premium MFK sounds along with 200 regular Foxpro sounds. With a maximum of 1000 sound capacity. So you could pirate all of the WT sounds and all the Lucky Duck sounds and still have room to spare.lol 😜
[ March 23, 2024, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 02:02 PM:
Buying a F-P is never a good deal. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
As for sounds I'm good, maybe in another 25 years someone will come up with some to replace WT sounds. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2024, 02:12 PM:
MFK is what? Come on guys, let's quit speaking in code!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 03:24 PM:
Not sure what MFK stands for but is name of company, I guess. They started business with the diagram mouth calls and now recorded coyote vocals. Might have even been a member here at one time but was bit sensitive so he left.
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on March 23, 2024, 03:38 PM:
The wt sound bullschit nonsense again.
Studio grade this and studio grade that. More freaking bullschit just like the lunatic bill martz always spouted.
He got mad when he was asked why a sound like a fire siren or a blade of grass would get a coyote to respond when it wasn't one of his "studio grade" secret sounds. The usual response was to attack the messenger, just like a democRAT does today after they get caught in another lie.
He really flipped out when he was asked why wt switched to TOA speakers instead of the "fancy" speaker system they previously used. Before the big wt speaker switch, any caller with a horn speaker was trash according to the studio grade buffoon.
So, to put it politely, stop the bullschit.
[ March 23, 2024, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: MI VHNTR ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 04:21 PM:
The owner of MFK is named Tory Cook. And Tim is right he started out making diaphragm howlers. They are really good sounding calls. Then he changed the name of his calls from TC calls to MFK(Made For Killing). And then a number of years later he partnered with Foxpro with there own line of sounds. They are based in Arkansas I believe.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 04:40 PM:
Like I said before, they are all good callers, and I’ve used all three of them, and if you really think that one caller will call more coyotes or call more educated coyotes better than another with all other things being equal you’re dilutional.
Good Hunting Chad
[ March 23, 2024, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 04:42 PM:
quote:
He really flipped out when he was asked why wt switched to TOA speakers instead of the "fancy" speaker system they previously used. Before the big wt speaker switch, any caller with a horn speaker was trash according to the studio grade buffoon.
Yep compared to TOA. Bill started with TOA and then added a fancy horn speaker then stayed with TOA and Bill was right, TOA much better. Did Bill hurt your little feelings? LOL
.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:02 PM:
But Chad they not equal that's the point. What good is a caller if it can't reach out there and bring them in. L.D. can't! I see it every night when I go calling, WT brings them in from farther away. You had the horn speaker caller, it's not the same as a TOA and wasn't meant to be. If it wasn't for L.D. and his vocals and now F-P with MFK you would still have nothing but rabbit sounds. LOL And I'll tell you flat out neither one invented new vocals, they all right there on the WT. Coyote only speaks so many words. LOL MFK sounds are tame coyotes and L.D. penned coyotes the sounds similar but not the same as a wild ass coyote. Tame coyotes have no fear in their vocals, penned coyote show too much fear or just forced to create a howl not normal but yes both will call some coyotes. My nephew has a F-P(non-MFK sounds) and he struggled with it here till he updated to a lucky duck, not everyone has coyotes that get in line then run in to rabbit screams, don't happen in real world and if all a guy is using is rabbit screams, then he just skimming in most cases. Fine if it makes them happy.
Many ask why Bill never went the F-P route and come out with a fancy remote and such. Waste of money is why. How much money does F-P lose every time they have a caller sent back in? How much money do they lose when they have to go find a different supplier of parts for their E-callers or even go so far as having to change some of the parts and then redo the inside of the caller, sound boards, chips you name it. Minaska tried the game and lost they couldn't keep up or afford all the changes that went on as far as parts, fixing callers and then ship back out. You think they all the same then go ahead and keep thinking that don't matter to me.
Edit to add. I have two WT TOA callers, small TOA and big TOA, they don't sound the same and one don't put sound out as far as I like it to travel. If guy is calling in small, wooded areas and can get close to the coyotes the smaller TOA works for that and a guy can save a few pennies if he into that as well.
[ March 23, 2024, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 05:51 PM:
Tim you make it sound like you are an authority on all this shit. Better Coyote men than you have done quite well both with numbers and with educated hard to call coyotes using the other brands and like I said earlier, to say you call more Coyotes because you use caller A rather than B or C is dillutional. All I ever hear from you Is I this and I that and so it must be so. It’s BULLSHIT plain and simple.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 06:15 PM:
two different E-callers and two different results. Just keep doing what you do, no matter here.
You never saw any changes or different results because you never looked, what happens when suffer from brain lock. Yeah, guys like Cal and Scott just resorted to a plane to fix their problem coyotes. Also guys quick to pull the trigger learn nothing other than, yep coyotes dead but why did it come alone. Never gonna find out.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2024, 06:54 PM:
Tim, I think you sound a bit cranky, and Ultra knowledgable. You won't get away with that here and you know it.
Tooting for the best machine and the best sounds is a personal opinion not a fact so please refrain from portraying these things. It's a strictly Ford/Chevy and if you think you know what's best, you might get another opinion from somebody in the Peanut Gallery.
Besides, I thought that certain callers and Studio Quality sound is just a choice and if you are happy with one, that's great. It's good that you believe in your gear.
This MFK person. Was he sensitive about what? I\Or me or what the hell was he so sensitive about? Timid men can't handle the 'net, and that's too bad. Sorry to see him gone, although I do not remember him right now. Sorry!
But lighten up before you scare away some of the paying customers. Speaking of which, where's ko ko?
Good hunting. El Bee
[ March 23, 2024, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 23, 2024, 07:28 PM:
Tim is very Narcissistic. Just listen to how he talks. I just didn’t open my eyes while using the three different callers. But of course he is the Authority and knows why even though he’s never even called with me, it’s just that way because I said so. Cal and Scott couldn’t get them problem coyotes by calling so they had to resort to the plane. But not me by damn I would would take my trusty WT caller and take them all out and save the cost of flying it. And he’s always got a bullshit answer for everything. But Tim I concede you are a Legend in your own mind. Now back to more important things like watching paint dry.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 08:46 PM:
Not authority just saying I can see the difference whether you agree or not. Like I mentioned to Leonard on another thread I'm trying out a new photo hosting site and have a bunch of vid.s on coyote behavior and shows you right there what's real or not, no smoke screen just way it is.
Yes ford? chevy comparison! thing is I'm comparing them basically side by side or on same coyotes over and over. I won't go out and buy a F-P but if I had one it be right there as well and recorded on film.
I also made two stands with group of coyotes and did have both callers with me at same time and I did kill a coyote each time. I'll leave rest up to you. Also not telling anyone to go buy a WT just saying, some don't know what they missing.
[ March 23, 2024, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 08:57 PM:
Here is a simple question. How many coyotes does one kill in a year? (don't need a exact number) How many coyotes killed following year from same area? Maybe go so far as a five-year avr. on how many kills a year? Its only time when numbers actually mean something.
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on March 24, 2024, 03:30 AM:
quote:
Did Bill hurt your little feelings? LOL
Not in the least. You see, for him to bother me he’d have to be relevant, which he never was. I sure must have hurt his feelings though. Unsolicited ranting and raving emails were just the start of his infantile antics. His final juvenile attempt to attack me was to ban me for life from getting a wt caller. That sure helped his business though. Stupidity at its finest.
So, since he wanted attention, I posted an email bm had sent to me online for all to see. Of course, the little mindless wt minions were upset, but bm wanted attention, so I gave it to him.
I’m sure that he never quite figured out exactly what happened after that. LOL!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 05:29 AM:
Well you seem awful bitter yet about it and still having a grudge so he must of hit a nerve as well. Have good day.
Posted by MI VHNTR (Member # 3370) on March 24, 2024, 06:02 AM:
There’s nothing to be bitter about at all. Just stating what happened. Nothing more, nothing less. Any conclusions, better yet delusions on your part, are just that.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 06:47 AM:
Whatever. I have to ask why would you want a WT anyway? The TOA is big and bulky and remote don't have a screen like F-P or L.D., it's too loud for calling so why would anyone want one?
I was banned by WT at one time as well but for different reasons. Bill lifted the ban, and I got my caller and then some. So, he can't be all bad. LOL
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 24, 2024, 06:57 AM:
Back in the early 2000's, everyone had a bill martz train wreck story. I had one of his monsterous 17 pound backpack callers, the zippered cordura nylon cover that held the caller had a zipper around the edge to access caller. That fucking zipper was literally sized like the ones on the plastic covers that hold a bedspread you buy at wallmart, very small,light and fragile.
After a bit of use, obviously the zipper on my caller case gave out, skipping teeth, snag, and jump the track, making it useless. I made several civil attempts to correspond with him to get a new case, fell on deaf ears of course.
I then took to one of the forums du jour to bash him with his own medicine. He loved to use the phrase "toy quality" to describe the Fox Pro caller, so I turned it on him, describing the zipper on his caller case as being toy quality and outing him for not standing behind his product like Fox Pro did theirs.
Man, did that put me on his shit list, personal attacks, nasty PMs and emails, everything but a new fucking case.
Was a good caller, I liked the sound, but in truth, after switching to Fox Pro, I soon realized there was no difference to the coyotes. I did pirate one sound off the WT, a cottontail sound that I still have and use, and yes, it works just as good on the FP as it did on the WT.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 24, 2024, 09:02 AM:
The previous post by Victor seems truthful and knowledgeable.
I never did figure out BM? He seemed to be a genuine sociopath. I heard from a credible source that he was denied entrance to Canada because of a criminal record, but never learned exactly what he was convicted of? But, I bet he had a red ass, being turned around at landing in Saskatoon!
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy!
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: I have only casually examined a WT caller. As far as the technical aspects, I don't know and don't care to argue the point. BUT. Also addressing Victor's comment above, what I did notice about apparent quality, which should have been apparent and obvious to anybody with an eye for quality. Yes, a WT has the appearance of junk, lot's of components look obviously cheap. Other than that I have hunted with a couple fellows that used one and okay, we called a few coyotes, hardly a huge endorsement since a Johnny Stewart has called a hell of a lot more coyotes, in their time. All of which when I think back to the cassette player I used years ago , and the Motorola Tape Deck that I used a hell of a lot as well. They all work, and then we start slicing it very thin. It's a useless argument, folks. LB
[ March 24, 2024, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 10:51 AM:
Just saying but Bill never made cases/bags for the caller so if zipper wears out it's his fault? and caller was bought used?
[ March 24, 2024, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 24, 2024, 11:32 AM:
Tim, this WT caller predates your experience with them. The caller indeed came with a case. It was to heavy to carry in the traditional sense, it had backpack shoulder straps, WT logo etc.
I understand you've been doing this shit a few years, but some of us were way ahead of you on the curve.
Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 24, 2024, 12:40 PM:
There is a place where we have been hunting for the past 19 years and it is 106,000 acres of public ground. We go there every year at least one time and sometimes twice. The first two years were learning years and there was lot of coyote sign. We very seldom ran into other coyote hunters, if ever, and once we became familiar with the lay of the land, our three day trips would result in 10-15 coyotes. A couple times we shot 20.
Then things changed about 5-6 years ago. The amount of sign decreased, but only slightly. We did see a few more callers, but again this was only a slight increase. The big difference were the number of bird hunters now in the area. It appears there has been a dramatic increase in the quail and pheasant population, so now these hunters were walking the hillsides. In the beginning, we could almost always have answers to our howls and either call them in or move on them.
Now it is very hard to get any coyote to howl in the daylight. The number of hard-chargers is almost nonexistent.
My FP caller has foxpro,minaska,WT,MFK,Johnny Stewart, Tony Tebbe, and LD sounds. I try not to shoot the same hole in the sky twice, so I have been trying them all. One of my friends has a LD and he called all stands exclusively on one trip. The results were the same. 1-2 coyotes shot per day. I own a WT caller and if I had used it on a few trips I highly doubt the results would be any different.
It all boils down to the amount of pressure on the coyotes. This pressure does not have to come from a predator caller. It can be bird hunters tromping across the countryside. It can be a rancher feeding cattle and I don't even have to mention deer season. Now that everybody has thermals, this pressure is suddenly turned into 24/7. Although illegal on this piece of public ground, I have seen sign that indicates thermals are in use.
So for me it is the coyotes, not the caller that dictate success.
Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 24, 2024, 01:02 PM:
I think Randy makes a great point about coyotes and pressure. They are the most adaptive animals I know of. I think all these Thermal guys posting pictures of large numbers of killed coyotes will see all to soon that the coyotes will adapt to this too. And the pictures will have less and less coyotes in them. I have found in recent years going back to good old hand calls has produced more coyotes than Ecallers.
Good Hunting Chad
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 02:30 PM:
You answered it yourself Randy, the numbers are down. Sure some pressure from bird hunters so the coyotes just move farther back into their terr. during the day, maybe look there as well. Here they always been hard to call and good luck on getting a daytime coyote to come in or howl. But at night its another game weather area was hunted in day by bird or deer hunters the coyotes will still respond with vocals or just come in. Some of the places I hunted in S.D., you been there. Some pastures see alot of calling pressure, but they still respond if you calling to them from the start. Some areas just like with bird hunters the coyotes move out to the outer fridges or may even lay up on another property. Many variables there..
See you have a big library, that many sounds needed? Or you just pick out ones that sound good to you or been recommended?
As for callers or sounds best take a better look and take note of a coyotes reaction, might see something you never seen or noticed before. Just say is all. have good day.
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 02:47 PM:
Chad take a look at where the guys are from with the big kill numbers and using thermals. They just skimming and still will have big numbers the next year because they have big numbers to play with. 15–25-minute stands are just skimming and may only account for what 60% of the population? All thermal does is allow a guy to call at night when many of their coyotes are up and about and have less fear about moving around and allows one to call to coyotes that won't venture out during daylight.
Iowa also has tough daylight calling and why TT moved to N.M.. Mo. also has difficult daytime calling I think Shaw can agree to that since he lived there. Thermal just changed the game for them so they can call when they willing to play.
At night you still need to make good stands, call where the coyotes are and have sounds, they willing to come into. Some other states also have piss poor calling in daytime and now that they can use thermal it has up there game just like mentioned and also many of them have a surplus of coyotes right now due to not being able to knock the numbers down with the old ways. Wisc. two hunters with 15-20 kills in a night, Mich. same thing. What changed? Use of thermal changed it for them. plus surplus of coyotes.
[ March 24, 2024, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 02:59 PM:
Take it a step farther my numbers are also up here. Why? More rabbits, mice or deer? No!
Last season we got 3 feet of snow dumped on and then about 2" of rain on top of the snow then it froze. Coyotes wouldn't travel far because of the crust. The group hunters couldn't hunt much because of the crust along with deep snow. I could run my dogs much either due to the crust, it really eats the hair off the front of a dog's legs and tough on their feet. This year no snow which means the group hunters can't hunt and road hunters can't spot one sleeping on a fence line. Whats left? Thermal calling. This is the best year I had so far for thermal calling plenty of ears to call to and many many repeats. It also helps not to get a mind set/brain lock.
[ March 24, 2024, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 25, 2024, 09:15 AM:
This is just like the good old days!
Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 25, 2024, 11:15 AM:
Popcorn !!!
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 25, 2024, 11:36 AM:
I think they ran out of popcorn Koko, some have to resort to watching paint dry.
Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on March 25, 2024, 05:20 PM:
Just read this to try out the new tag on the profile. Blah Blah. Anyways, All this about what is what is interesting and from the years I have spent calling in coyotes from the west coast, being from British Columbia to all the western states I never needed a real reason to get an e-caller. The ol store bought call with an ole Wintress or the newer JC reeds always worked well in the day time or the night time. And I am not a keen night caller but have done it. I just found that any distress sound worked. To me it was all in the feeling you put into the call. Open reed or closed reed. Maybe I am wrong but for me it has worked for over 50 years of pursuing the neatest little critter I ever hunted.
Time and just plain experience under adverse conditions seemed to be important, and just HUNTING basics always worked. I sure don't claim to be so good at it but I always managed to get hundred more or less every year for years and years of mainly daytime calling. And when Ron and I did our little test, because we had a bet going, I really did outcall his overpriced fancy FoxPro almost 2 to 1 on our coyotes in Nevada. Maybe because every mothers son had a FoxPro and used it thinking all they had to do was drive out and turn it on. But that was a few years ago and in a Galaxy far away.
And that's just my feeble cheap ass view of it all.
Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 26, 2024, 05:59 PM:
Well, Walt, you make me think for a bit. The thing about hand calls, in the first place is they are in one respect, "NATURAL" and it's because the realism you impart is humanly necessary. You have to pause, and breathe and you get tired and you get a second wind after stopping for as long as you "feel" like it and then you get a little more feeling strictly based on how you are feeling, and all of these human induced pauses add to the realism of what a rabbit, or any critter is going through; in a life and death encounter or fight to the death. And every thing you do isn't scripted, it varies with how you feel and how much you put in to it. Because, hand calling is work, it leaves you breathless, you have to take it easy, and you get to start in again, and you never really think about what you did 15 minutes ago, it's all different and un-staged and you are reinventing your sequence is a different way and every stand is an original performance.
Anyway, that's what I think.
Good hunting. El Bee
Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 26, 2024, 07:53 PM:
I think I can say most everyone here has started on hands calls before moving to E-callers. Sure, with hand calls you can mimic a rabbit or vole mouse or deer and sound like the actual critter. Now days E-callers have actual live recordings of a prey distress that has the same amount of feeling put into as a hand call so what's the diff's.
As for Walt's case with competing against his buddies F-P back in those days, F-P was mostly hand call recording to start with that someone donated to them. So Walts rabbit screams sounded better than F-p recorded screams.
Years ago I spotted red fox out on hillside about a mile out and had to really lay into my hand call just to get the fox to hear enough of my calling to come in. Sure, it worked but not something I want to do all day long, day after day. Somewhere around same time frame I bought a Johny Stewart e-caller and got same results without having to blow my lungs out day after day. what's not to like?
Hand call also has its limits as to what sounds you can mimic and not everyone can blow on a hand call and sound good enough to bring target animal in. Some parts of the country just a rabbit scream not going to work or get the job done, bird distress helps but it also has its limits at times, same for Vole mouse but same on limits.
Depends where you call and how far away your target animal is, hand calls are not what I would call long distance type of caller and that's where a good E-caller shines, cover more ground and make fewer stands I say. Some areas don't have coyotes behind every bush or just down the road from another one.
I was talking with a well-known caller from N.D. and he was telling me he used two different rabbit sounds when calling. One sound is used during the day and other at night. One sound was higher pitched and travel well during day with little or no wind and the other sound was little louder and deeper and carried better than other.
During the day you have a humidity say around 60% and as the night goes and it starts to cool down some the humidity rises to 90% or more which makes the air heavier and tough for the sound to travel so you need a sound that can carry farter in those conditions, not going to get same results with a hand call. My coyotes don't like rabbit screams so that rules out a hand call again.
NOw when calling in places coyote does like the good old rabbit at times you get a coyote that keeps checking up but long as you keep calling it keeps coming in, pretty tuff to multitask trying to call and keeping coyote in the crosshairs at same time. Use what you like.
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