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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:10 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53607132865_dbaff9c964_w.jpg

Thor! Son of Uno

[ March 23, 2024, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:17 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53607132580_5188bfe5f8.jpg

Two of my pups catching bear

[ March 23, 2024, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:26 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53607132955_b80c605f73.jpg

Just some deer in thermal on bad night and far off.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:29 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53606665396_01752f8158.jpg

Male coyote coming in on a string. WT in use.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:30 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53606664471_59c1b25c3d_w.jpg

3 coyotes coming in on a string from over a mile. WT in use.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:31 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53606877088_1d5137e523_w.jpg

Single coyote coming in on a string, WT in use.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:32 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/53606657891_b4fc625bb5_w.jpg

Single male coyote, my second called in since I bought the thermal. WT in use

[ March 23, 2024, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:35 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53606875073_2899ebe430_w.jpg

Uno! yeah, he has a few scars.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:37 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53606875308_effb9ec6a2_w.jpg

Thor and Lazer spreading the love.

[ March 23, 2024, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 05:47 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53607131135_8434737f46_n.jpg

[ March 23, 2024, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 23, 2024, 06:32 PM:
 
The last photo actually looks like a hound. Do you dock the tails?

That's a fair size bear.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 23, 2024, 08:36 PM:
 
No Leonard I don't dock tails, tails help keep them running in upright position like a boat rudder if you will.

Last dog is Moe he is a seal team member. Goes in quiet and makes catches in their beds. usually gets 2 or 3 a year in their beds. Buddy told me that's cheating, sure I said tell Moe that. Moe is most relaxed dog I have, can take him anywhere and have him around women and kids he like a big baby. But you put a coyote in front of him he a whole another animal.

Yes, that is a big bear for Wisc.. That bear walked and ran and stopped every so often to try and fight the pups. I believe they went something like 23 miles before the hounds finally caught up and help bay up the bear on the ground. I'm really proud of those two and what they have become.
I'm trying out a photo hosting site but can't get the videos to work or I could show you coyote behavior at night and how coyotes react from one caller to the next, it's not so black and white as some may think.
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 24, 2024, 10:50 AM:
 
What is the significance of adding the "coming in on a string" to your dialog?
For christs sake, 90% of the coyotes I call come in on a string, their fucking hungry, and want to get to the rabbit before the neighbor does, whats so amazing about that statement with each of your photos?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 03:03 PM:
 
I can't say Vic. Leonard told me to play nice.

um if you like to, go watch a handful of U-tube vid.s on thermal calling so we on same page and maybe if Leonard lets me I'll answer the question, not sure if it would make difference anyway.

[ March 24, 2024, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 24, 2024, 03:50 PM:
 
Thanks, but no thanks, nightime calling holds zero interest to me. Toss in using thermal imaging to see a fucking coyote and kill it and you put me in a boredom induced coma.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 24, 2024, 06:11 PM:
 
The "coming in on a string" comment actually wouldn't be very significant if all you do is day stands in prime country.

At night, the hereditary response of ALL coyotes is to circle downwind, the shortest direction and it does not matter how far away you pick them up but at a certain point, known only to the coyote, he will circle downwind, 90% of the time. It's unusual enough to have a single or a pair try to be the first to the rabbit and then you would probably refer to the approach as coming on a string. Extra hungry, maybe? I don't know?

But in open country where you can pick up eyes a half mile away, they circle to catch your wind the most direct way they can, but it's a parabola and they get incrementally closer until they come to exactly downwind, at which point they only hesitate for a few seconds, and as I am expecting this, I am spraying scent the whole time. If you wait to spray when he gets downwind, you are wasting your fucking time! You should have been spraying from when you first saw the critter, before he circles to catch "YOUR" wind.

As I have mentioned before but you guys never get it: you have about 5 seconds to shoot that coyote in the head before he disappears!

That's it, the whole theory of misting, in a nutshell. But under the circumstances, in wide open country under a NEW MOON, then it is well worth doing.

But since coyotes don't always bother to circle downwind in the daytime, it's a huge waste of Magic Mist, because he might come in on a string and you are dinking around with a bottle of coyote piss instead of drawing a bead on your quarry before he dodges behind a bush and gone forever.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 24, 2024, 08:46 PM:
 
Leonard I don't call in the daytime, its unproductive here. The black spots in pictures is a coyote or coyotes at night looking through thermal. Reason coyotes is black is due to having setting on Hot black or I could change it to hot white (coyote appears white) then the ground would be darker.
Yes, some coyotes will tend to circle downwind at night if you are using certain coyote vocals. and for another reason, but I'll skip that.
I used to think that coyotes liked some sort of cover to come in on if its available but find that's not the case when calling open ground. But what they do like is some sort of shadow to come in under, can be a row of trees, the edge of a wood lot or it can be a shallow drainage or water way going through a field they will stay on shaded side of the drainage when the moon is out and casting a shadow. No moon they may cross open ground or take to shallow drainage, depends on coyotes' security level, I guess.
If a shallow drainage runs left to right the coyote will follow it to where it flattens out or opens up and then take a look, often times the drainage will take them too downwind as well. If i have nephew along he sits at end of shallow drainage. I won't mention callers but if I can get the coyotes excited enough or mad, they just come in on a string and ignore the shallow ground, when they do this then I don't need another shooter along. The old rabbit blues is a hit and miss sound, so I don't use it much except maybe early on a stand after they been spotted, I'll give them a little rabbit and if they stop and turn to leave, I get their mind changed onto another sound. Just the way it is. Vole mouse works pretty good but not a silver bullet here either except with the young stuff. Helps to know roughly the age of what you calling to, makes life little easier. But also use that sound early if they come then I leave the caller on if not then onto plan -c-.
If Rabbit distress works in your areas, then I'm happy for you but it's not the case here.
Circling downwind cause coyote is unsure of itself and what's out there. I always try to give it something it can handle, younger coyote vocals, coyote pups fighting a deer, raccoon or red fox.(vole mouse) If I'm dealing with a group then I want to flat out piss them off and create a terr. response and bring them in on a string!(center of sound cone) I rotate between callers, or a few times use them both and there is a pattern on how they react to either and enough to tell me what's going on with my coyotes.
I even talk with other top callers in my state, and we exchange info on what's what or what we see. One of my friends uses 3 callers and what area he calls dictates what caller he will use for a stand, another friend switches between just two callers. I also doubt you could talk them into leaving all but one at home, just way it is.
I will also tell you this a certain X-brand caller will dam near guarantee a downwind approach every time on a nightstand.
When X-brand caller is used I have to set it farther up wind so when they circle, I can still have them in range for a shot when they pop up.
Believe what you like I don't care as you don't live here and what I'm doing is getting coyotes in so I can kill them.
Coyotes can't multitask and suffer from brain lock/mind set, they get their mind locked in on something then you unlock it with something else.
Coyote comes in then stops 300 yards out and looks like right at you and just stares and is locked onto where you are something may have caught its eye, so you turn caller back on and give it something to unlock its mind and change it to something else. People behave the same way when something bothers them, they get a mindset that can go on for few minutes or last all week till something pops up and changes it to where they forget about it. At work if we deal with a employee like that we ask him to count backwards from five or just change subject to something else. I get it once in a while and my boss will drive up and ask me how coyote hunting was last season and click, I forget all about a stupid truck-driver. LOL Its same game with coyotes.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 24, 2024, 09:57 PM:
 
Classic! Tim giving Leonard the run down on how to be a successful night caller. You can’t make this stuff up.🙄🥱
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 25, 2024, 10:11 AM:
 
nope just saying its not same or what i see here. try counting back from 5 to 0 Chad.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 25, 2024, 10:24 AM:
 
Lol … 😂 ok Tim. If I had the time or gave a shit I would head back with my Lucky Duck and show you how to call those unproductive areas during the day. But looks like you got the night thing figured out. Good on ya!!!

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 25, 2024, 10:48 AM:
 
Day time coyotes far off can be tuff to see or watch as they approach even when looking through pair of bino's. Thermal just makes it that much easier to watch them and see how they react or don't react. So, in other words you see more of what's going on with an approaching coyote. Leonard hunted at night from back of a truck and then looked for eyes with his lights then what held the light above coyote so it was at bottom of the halo and then followed it with light till he could get a shot? It would be like tunnel vision and all you see is the eyes or shadow of the coyote.
With thermal the coyote lights, up as soon as you can pick it up when you scan, can be a half mile or little more and can watch the coyote the whole time less it ducks behind a small hill. Many times, you don't have to wait for a coyote to stop and look back to see if its mate is coming, with thermal you already know. Can sit on a stand and watch coyotes filter in from all directions no back door crap like you see on a day stand or at night with a light. Thermal not for everyone and some areas it may be useless if too much cover, it cuts into your sleep time as well. LOL
I think Shaw mentioned using a scanner during the day and would be an advantage to have along if calling in cat country especially if you have a hard time picking one out sitting by any bushes.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 25, 2024, 11:03 AM:
 
Hold on there, Chad!

I'm going to have that advice laminated for my wallet! That way, I can reference it when something happens that I've never seen before! (check my sig line)

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 25, 2024, 11:14 AM:
 
😂👍
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 25, 2024, 11:21 AM:
 
Monday test for the curious to see if it may be applicable here.

Dunning-Kruger Effect
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 25, 2024, 11:21 AM:
 

quote:

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If I had the time or gave a shit I would head back with my Lucky Duck and show you how to call those unproductive areas during the day.

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quote:

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That way, I can reference it when something happens that I've never seen before! (check my sig line)

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We didn't have coyotes when you lived here.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 25, 2024, 12:18 PM:
 
😂 yeah what Vic said….

I think I’m starting to get it now. Tim goes out calling with Scott Huber and Randy Roede and learns a few catch phrases on coyote behavior from them, then comes back to internet “parrots” what they told him and then tells everyone here the reason they aren’t as successful as he is. And I’m sure the reason that Tim is such a WT guy isn’t because Scott and Randy were both WT proponents.😉

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 25, 2024, 01:45 PM:
 
Made less than a handful of stands with Scott, was too windy to call so time was spent checking beaver traps and counting lecks. and then one day as ground spotter for the plane. Nice try!
As for Randy a day was spent denning and working his dog. One night spent locating coyotes and its benefits. One day calling in my area working a group of coyotes and how much you can push them. Also, the benefits of using a WT. caller. Stand selection and where we chose to sit wasn't talked about as both of us was on same page. Randy did stress one needs to look and listen and the puzzle will fall together.
Randy never flat out gave you the answers to anything, he gives me a scenario or puzzle and left it up to me to figure out. Don't learn nothing if someone else does the work for you, you still need experience and you get that by doing it yourself, do all the leg work or what's required.

Coyotes are our best teacher either you willing to learn or just fall to the wayside like many who tried.
Once I had my WT and called with randy, he said when he takes others out calling, they tend to copy same scenario or play out same sounds. I said really and then he remarked I was doing the same thing. LOL I told Randy when he puts caller way out front or off to the opposite side of me, I can't hear his caller so how I could possibly duplicate what he was playing, plus I always kept my caller next to me so I can hear the dam thing. Just so happen both was on same page as far as what sounds to use. Scott placed his caller out front as well and I never did hear any of the sounds he used.
Scott mostly showed me how he goes about his job and just basic shit on calling, no hidden secretes. LOL I still have the paper works or list of stuff he goes through when mentoring others if you like I'll send it to you. No secretes there.
Scott also switched over to F-P if that matters.

My eyes worked good though and could see the benifits of using a WT.

Go calling to a open area like the Dakotas with high numbers and sit on a hill side and just learn from them. Spend time trapping coyotes just adds to the learning process. Track coyotes down in the snow and kill them just adds to learning process. Go to other states and call coyotes just adds to learning process, different country and at time different coyote behavior. Hunt coyotes in a group with one or two guys moving the coyotes and a few guys sniping as they try to crossroad just adds to it. Sitting on a hill side watching the ground as a plane flys a grid and shoots coyotes from the air just adds to learning process.
Take a pack of dogs and run coyotes with snow on ground or without just adds to learning process.

Calling coyotes at night with a light or better yet thermals just adds to learning process.

Sit and listen to guys that claim all they use is rabbit sounds does not add to the learning process and also not much to be gleaned from guys who call heavy cover other than watch the downwind side good, they can't see coyotes make an approach so what's to learn there. Many don't take time to locate so they basically just driving around and picking a spot that looks good to them, what's to glean from that?
So, I guess I could safely say I been there, and I done that.
I'm still learning but the answers for me are not found on the internet, the coyotes hold the key and only one I can give credit to.
Sorry it all bothers you. LOL

By the way some of those catch phases was from Bill and passed onto Scott and Randy, that's where they came up with them if you are looking for the source . Nice try.

[ March 25, 2024, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 25, 2024, 02:49 PM:
 
Gotta admit I had to look Dunning Kruger Effect up.
Now, that's cuttin' with a cold knife right there.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 27, 2024, 05:39 PM:
 
ko ko, I tried finding that "Dunning Kruger Effect"
with no luck. What the hell is it?

But, for Tim; about how any animals do you see in a night? How many bobcat have you killed, approximately? You mentioned Red Fox somewhere. Have you killed quite a few? How about Gray fox?

I've killed quite a few Gray fox but it's usually not a target. In fact, I won't mess up a stand by killing one until I'm pretty sure no coyotes are coming in. And, most of them are in Arizona.

I do not see very many Red Fox at all and in fact, have not killed one, they seem especially shy.

As far as coyotes, and I'm just mentioning this because the frame of reference is a bit distorted. Typically, in season at night in Nevada, I might see between 25 and 50 animals. That doesn't mean they all come in, but over the years, I have killed and put between 7 and 12 coyotes a night when everything is agreeable, weather isn't a problem, etc. The most we ever killed, in a weekend was either 22 or 23?

On day stands, I(we) have killed a dozen several times, mostly in Arizona. I'm speaking as a team, we don't count individual kills separately, like I got 3 and my partner got 4. No, we got 7, that's it, a team effort. For that matter, maybe I didn't actually kill any? Maybe I was on the light all night, but WE got 7, and I contributed every bit as much as the shooter. It's a team effort, no jealousy. But I have known guys that strictly switch shooters every stand. Personally, I think most old hands consider that you have to trust and have faith in your partner. Yes, I have seen teams that keep their kill separate, but that's a minority and it's a petty situation. If you don't trust your partner, it's time to start hunting with someone else.

I hunted with the same partner for over 25 years and he was an exceptional shot on game, as am I. I had total faith in him, and he was just as good on the light. It's the light man that is doing the actual hunting and tracking the animal and it's every bit as skilled as the shooter. In fact, if we had a new guy we would put him on the gun because there is very little for him to do, and you find out right away if he can take the shot offered and kill the animal when you set him up for the easy shot.

If somebody doesn't get it, that's fine, but the fact is, it's the light man doing all the work. Puts a lot of pressure on the shooter and he better not miss! On our competitive hunts, we would hunt as a 3 man team. In that case, the man with the second most responsibility is the driver. The easy job is the shooter and sometimes we would keep the same job all night or maybe switch off once. There is a lot of pressure on the driver to stop when he is signaled, shut everything down and make sure he parks in a level spot, when spotlighting. Sometimes it's just a matter of stopping so that there aren't branches or boulders or a big trunk in the way. All I'm trying to explain is that this kill team must work together like a well oiled machine and that can make the difference in a few more animals. I'm just saying that shooting is actually the easiest job with a team like this. All this effort for a trophy, or a belt buckle.

Sorry for droning on and on
Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 27, 2024, 10:09 PM:
 
How many critters at night? With out doing a locate and just calling areas where i know they are most of time I would see at least one coyote every stand with one empty stand out of five mostly due to just checking to see if any filtered over to a drainage ditch in another direction. Next time through I would just call another section in a different direction just trying to figure out which way the YOY are moving but still call coyotes from targeted area. In other words, I try to call areas I know they are in and then try a few other spots close bye always looking for that odd ball or a new group but yet not wasting alot of time in that area just move to known area.

Some nights I give the known groups a rest and will go look for new spots then I may only find just a few and take note if I don't get them killed and then just add them to the next visit list. Some nights I have nephew along he can hear them howl much farther away which is about 2-3 miles roughly. When stands get to be 2 hours long or little more I will pass up some locate areas and just save for another night or I run out of time calling better locations. When I locate some off in distance, I like to look the area over in day before I call it so I can plan my next move. I have a Garmin drive track with bird's eye view which shows all the structure and then I pin stand locations for that area according to wind so I got it covered for when I also go in to call. Coyotes don't go too far here so once they found its just matter of time and can make it, so I see coyotes on most every stand selection. Nephew is impressed by that cause I make it look so easy but he also doesn't realize I have to do all the leg work figuring areas out and coyotes and how many may be there. I told him also if he don't get out and learn this shit he going to stay in fourth grade far as calling goes and told him you can't google this stuff when I'm gone. LOL

How many Bobcats have I killed? Five! But not here in Minnesota. All the cats are in northern half of the state and only allowed to kill five so too far to drive so I don't mess with them.

Its same with what few gray fox we have most are way north of me along the line where the bobcats start and may overlap a little.

I've called wolves before, but we don't have a season so no shooting. I worked one season up in a wolf area, so I took my special caller along which was loaded with wolf vocals and called a few in early morning or just before dark. Also found out I wasn't close enough to their core area and why I wasn't seeing any packs, just stray wolves looking for their own place.

Red fox I killed quit a few at night when we got the lite law passed but numbers was getting so low here, so I stopped killing them but killed two last seasons with the thermal. Both instances I had a coyote and fox coming in along edge of CRP at same time and just told myself I'll shoot whatever shows first. Just so happen the red fox beat the coyote to the caller both times.
I have a pair of coyotes close to town and also a pair of red fox, the fox come up by the house in town once in a while, so I just leave them alone kind of cool walking outside next day and see a pair of tracks come around the house. Then out where I have my kennel, I have pair of coyotes there as well that come up to farm site, I save them for just the dog running.
At times red fox can be harder to call than the coyotes as you are right, they can be very timid. Bird sounds and vole mouse works best but have had them come into coyote howls and distress sounds, what gives there?
Some nights I may have a deer or two come into a call, skunks, coon and owls and a jackrabbit around breeding time.
With a thermal you can see most anything that puts off heat and is alive from little, tiny field mouse up to a full-grown cow.
Mice look like little white Christmas bulbs jumping around as they move about, and a rat will look like a lamp light bulb in size. Only place I see any rabbits is around farm sites and our jackrabbits are pretty scarce as well only find them in very small pockets. I'd say mice and rats is the meal ticket for bulk of my coyotes.

seeing 25-50 animals shit I would have to put a hell of a lot of miles on and be lucky if I see 25 in a night. If I just drove and located as I went and once I saw a coyote or group and then just move and locate more then maybe I could bring that number up to 30 or more since this is a good year for coyotes as the number is up due to no snow.
Like said stands can be pretty long here and you need to learn to call what's there. you just can't say fuck it and go look for a easy one to call.
Every coyote is different or group of coyotes, it's a learning process of what they like and what you can get away with, is no magic sounds just some work over and over better than others. Early season rabbit and bird sounds and may be one howl or two that's it. Go to next group though and they will run from a rabbit, so you give them some coyote vocals or that new sound I'm using of a woman screaming and turn them back around and then work them.
I also get different results from two different callers, and I know what to look for so I can be ready for when they do come or decide when to use caller X or caller B.... I can pretty much predict what they going to do if the come. Vic says its checkers, I say its chess. LOL
My buddies up north put more coyotes in back of the truck at night but there are usually two shooters, and more coyotes to call to in given area and they use suppressor, which is hit and miss, they get few extra and then they don't.

I trust very few so I hunt mostly alone as I figured if a coyotes gonna get fucked up then I'm going to be one to do it and live with my mistake.
Also agree I don't get every coyote I see. Sometimes I see one at a half mile line on the move and there is someplace it wants to be, have a hill side between us so I know I wasn't seen or heard it's just it had to be somewhere. Have some stands I also go in on first time sometimes blind as I never looked them over in the day and then find I'm set up in wrong spot and some small hill hides the coyote's approach or a drainage ditched is froze over, so they duck into that and make approach and then play peek a boo. I don't fuck around with them if I don't have the shot or can't get it, I just let it get quiet and hope they leave and then come back later and make a better stand it's still do able. Taking wild guess shots and missing just fucks them up so much, better to just let them go.

The thing with a thermal is you track with it, puts the light man out of a job. Two shooters on stand just more eyes and a little signal can put both shooters on the coyotes and be ready till they cross the line. Shooter closest to lead coyote takes the shot, second shooter is tracking another coyote or is just back up in case of bad hit as it can happen at times with a thermal vrs. daytime scope.
Yes you right about shooting being easiest part and at times I like to just sit and work the caller but when I got nephew along, he so dam green I can't trust him on chip shots, but he is getting better and would get much better if he gets out more. Maybe I could hire Lances gunner???? "My gunner" is that just a phase or does Lance own his?
Leonard your way of night hunting sounds like fun but don't think I could find a crew for that if it was legal here as most want to do all the shooting to satisfy their blood lust or ego. One reason why I don't run dogs with the old group, they don't want the dogs to catch any coyotes but just run them to the road in a short amount of time so they can shoot.
Reminds me of copper. She worked her ass off to bring a coyote to a first-time shooter and the kid kills it up close with a shotty. Kid was so happy he didn't want to let go of copper but now his dad forgot all of what copper did for his kid and wouldn't go to bat for me, so I say fuckem. Ran into the guy few times when crew wasn't out and he ask if I wanted help, I just say no the dogs will get it.

Edit to add. sometimes I run into some of the other guys from crew and I keep two pictures on my phone. One picture is of two dead coyotes and other may be 5-6 dead coyotes. one of them will always ask how the hunting is? depending on who asks I say or not so good and just say all I got is two so far. Next guy I may want to piss off, so I show him the picture with larger number and then say I got this last night over by his place. LOLs

[ March 27, 2024, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 28, 2024, 12:15 AM:
 
I feel a lot like Vic. Night calling has never really been an interest of mine. I’ve done it quite a few times in Nevada but it never has peaked my interest like day calling. I bet my best night calling night would only be 4-5 coyotes. I would rather get the sleep and hit it hard daylight to dark. Nevada has always been good to us. I think we have had 2- 13 coyote days, a dozen or so 10 coyote days. More than I can remember 6-7 coyote days. And more than I can count 2-5 coyote days. Best Nevada hunt for us was a 3 1/2 day trip we killed 32 coyotes should have killed 40 that trip. Utah is a different animal though best day I’ve had is 5 coyotes. I’m as proud of that day as about any out calling. We will get quite a few 1-2 coyote days an occasional 3 coyote day but not many. Wyoming for me has been real hit and miss, a few great days and a lot of slow days. But I would take day calling any day over the night stuff. Now for Leonard I understand the night game, the Competition thing is a whole different game. I wish I could have seen those big numbers back in the day.

Edit: most coyotes called on one stand was in Nevada 20+ years ago… 17 Coyotes.

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 28, 2024, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on March 28, 2024, 05:53 AM:
 
Love reading all this stuff and it sure brings back a lot of great memories. Like some of us here I was just never a big time night caller. I liked watching them come in and so did my wife, who was with me most of the time. Yeah we had night stuff like red lights etc. but it just wasn't our cup of tea. And just how many times do you want to have a Great Horned Owl buzz you and startle the crap out of you.
I do miss Nevada as I always had good luck there and unless you were calling near a town was pretty good. BUT,,, when I was living in Gardnerville, by Carson City. I did have good luck calling near and by houses. Lots of coyotes that liked to eat tasty cats and small dogs and were only harassed by bigger domestic dogs. Especially productive areas were by places that had posters on phone poles looking to give out rewards for this and that pet that never came home.
having a partner that was good was great also you just both knew what the other was thinking and you were in sync with each other.
On and on, but I do believe my best that I remember was taking my cousin out calling on the nuclear reservation where he went to school in Arco, Idaho. We had to sneak in but when you blew that call it seemed like you were living back when Lewis and Clark recorded so many coyotes out on the plains. We killed a dozen on one stand, yes we had to reload, they just kept coming and coming.
Never believed it could happen. The thing is no one ever called out there on a lot of acres that had no access to anybody. Those coyotes never heard a mouth call let alone some one with a e-caller.
But just calling in the daytime was the funnest for me because you could watch them come in from far away to believing they just pop up out of the ground in front of you and how could you not see them right in front of you. Great times.
I've called here in eastern TN a couple times and it reminds me of calling back in Washington and Oregon on the wet jungle side. I'm sure you call something in but seeing it is a whole nother story. We have lots of coyotes and cats and red fox here. I've had better luck with traps around the chicken coup on fox than anything. Well those stupid racoons don't really count that get caught.
Speaking of fox. Many of you ever call those dumbass Kit Fox? In southern Nevada you could call up enough to make you stop shooting them or just switch over to using your favorite .22 pistol or revolver just for shits and giggles. They got to be on par with sheep for smarts.
Anyways enough of my trivial ramblings. Thanks for the memories fellas. And keep the friendly garbage and trash talk going. Tim, you are a glutton ,I believe, for this as you seem to thrive in it. And thanks for the site Leonard it is good to read all that the fellas and gals contribute to it. Good, Bad ,or Indifferent.
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on March 28, 2024, 05:54 AM:
 
Just read my post, what a long winded bunch of crap from an old man that still has his marbles.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 28, 2024, 07:12 AM:
 
El Bee ............. It comes right up on Google.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 09:34 AM:
 
Thanks Walt. LOL Calling predators is all I know or do, can talk about it all day. Shooting pistols at paper or steel targets don't interest me, never did and can say same about Government or politics. There are things you can do to make your calling better or just give you a good experience but not a dam thing you can do about a Gov. we have no control over and never will. Plus, I like to do my part to keep Leonard's board active whether you agree or not. Agree calling at night with a light or daytime calling in thick stuff you don't see much of the coyote till it steps out in front or into a light and then you kill it. Not a lot gleaned there from a coyote.
Calling with a thermal though you can watch a coyote from long ways off, it turns the night into day sort to speak. It also has its challenges as well and not as easy as some may think. I love day calling in S.D. but it's just too expensive these days for that. I enjoy watching my dogs work a coyote track or coyote in a chase, I wouldn't of missed it for the world.
Calling coyotes is different everywhere you can either adapt or just stay home, it's up to everyone to decide.

Another thing about night calling is here the wind tends to die down at dark which makes it a good time to be out verses sitting at home cause wind blew too hard all day. Wind direction also changes here often which gives you a chance to go into a certain area and call it vrs. some places wind is usually from one direction. You also get a chance to see how the coyotes are behaving to different wind directions, some old guys use to say wind out of the east coyotes come the least. Barometer changes you can also see how it affects coyotes if any, new moon, old moon, no moon, cloudy sky vrs. clear sky, night before a storm, during storm or days after you can see it all at night.
From what I see deer behavior is more affected by weather conditions than coyotes. so, I don't compare the two and same with fishing forecasts, not the same. I do see when barometer goes up or down it affects the animals as far as what or how far they can hear and same with humidity. Some nights I get a little popping in the ears as Bar. presser changes and can feel like the ears are stopped up and then have nights when I can hear much farther or clearer. Not sure if same way with critters....

[ March 28, 2024, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 28, 2024, 09:52 AM:
 
Tim you totally lost me when I read this quote from you.

“When stands get to be 2 hours long or little more I will pass up some locate areas and just save for another night or I run out of time calling better locations.”

The day I sat on a stand for coyotes for 2+ hours is the day I moved to a new State. Or take up a new hobbie.

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 28, 2024, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2024, 10:11 AM:
 
Well, that is something that the concept is a bit difficult for me to grasp. Hunting coyotes in Minnesota seems so foreign to me, but it's the same as calling in Tennessee or Georgia, it's so weird it's not like classic coyote calling in western states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and southern California...where it all started!

It's my theory that, as we pressured coyotes they started moving east. Some people maybe like BM, thinks they have wolf hibred coyotes in fucking Maine but I really feel like we more or less pushed them east past what was a natural barrier, the Mississippi river. With enough pressure, you had a couple brave 'yotes that ventured across the bridge. then they adapt, no jackrabbits, so they hunt whatever's available, including domestic stock and chickens.

But there is a reason why we started hunting coyotes in neighboring states. Of course, I have always blamed Foxpro for fucking up all coyote hunting. I hunted this guy's ranch in Colorado and he told us the coyotes had never been hunted. As we were driving in the dirt, one afternoon, I saw a coyote hunkered down between a cluster of Yucca, just keeping his head down. I told him to stop and as I bailed out, that coyote, a hundred yards away, got up and high tailed it as fast as his little legs would carry him towards cover. I started thinking....these coyotes are pressured!

So, this guy had a Foxpro, the small portable type and when he was tending his cows, he would take the Foxpro turn it on and set it on the hood of his truck as he fed the stock! Then he admitted that he gave his lawyer permission last night to spotlight his property, which was non productive and to be telling me that his coyotes were never hunted was slicing it pretty thin, because he had never donned camoflage and sat by a bush and actually made a stand, and in his mind, technically, his coyotes had never been hunted. maybe so, but he had them so intimidated that they ran the other way when they heard a wounded rabbit call!

It's basically a bunch of amateurs that have queered the coyote hunting. They are educated and fear man, fear his vehicles and especially fear a Foxpro!

edit: It's not enough to turn on a machine; you have to kill the coyote or he will impart his fear or caution to his family. he is capable of alerting strange coyotes to danger and they do it. This is how you contaminate an entire county!

That's what I think.
Good hunting. El Bee

[ March 28, 2024, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 10:34 AM:
 
When I stay for over a hour on a stand is cause the coyotes are there so why pack up and leave. makes no sense?? Most stands are 30 minutes and may take that amount of time to get a response, nothing shows or howls then I move.
I call down a creek drainage and have two coyotes on way in you wait till they get close in mean time I may get more coyotes coming in from another direction or same drainage but just takes them little longer to get to me. First two coyotes are in gun range, but you can't see them as they down on the creek ice behind cut banks or tall grass playing peek a Boo. Coyotes like to be in the shadows when they can or use some sort of cover, just way they are. Next thing you know you have been circled by a group of coyotes, some even down wind of me. Just keep calling long as they stick around, and you just wait for one or two to make a mistake and move to open ground so I can get a shot. I guess I should look at my watch if I had one and just say well fuck it's been over a hour I'm just going to get up and leave??? I'm calling coyotes also from long ways it takes time for them to come and none of that 15-minute crap, just don't happen very often. Go find some other guys from Minn. that call at night and ask them how long they sit on a stand and kill coyotes.
I know the answer. You also have to take into account there might not be a place to hide the truck, or the ground is not laid out right so you set up where you can hide the truck and see the coyotes as they come and at times that means a long way off. Property lines can also be a issue, a farmer may not want me calling on his land so then you have to call the coyotes across the property line. Some places the coyotes are predictable and have certain route they like to come in on so it takes little more time there as well. Like I said before if all a guy does is make 15-minute stands and not patent enough to wait or relies of rabbit distress they not going to kill many coyotes. LOL And if a guy just plan to make day stands then yes agree that guy should just look for a new home out of state as you not going to kill many daytime coyotes here by calling. One of the better day time callers here is old school he only calls early morning or just before dark or on snow with a full moon. I think he got 4-5 daytime coyotes this year. He does good under full moon but this year we didn't have any snow or many full moon nights as it was cloudy, so he didn't get much calling in.
He drives truck out to Cali. every week so he stops when he can and makes day stands in Cali. Utah, Nev. and few other states and does pretty good compared to here. Me move? Hell no! You just give up to easy. LOL
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 11:10 AM:
 

quote:

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Well, that is something that the concept is a bit difficult for me to grasp. Hunting coyotes in Minnesota seems so foreign to me, but it's the same as calling in Tennessee or Georgia, it's so weird it's not like classic coyote calling in western states like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and southern California...where it all started!

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quote:

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Again more nonsense for TA.

“Like I said before if all a guy does is make 15-minute stands and not patent enough to wait or relies of rabbit distress they not going to kill many coyotes. LOL”

I guess it depends on your definition of many Coyotes.

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quote:

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Tim, with all do respect I think you are conflating smart with low numbers and pressured coyotes. We have pressured Coyotes here too. But we have the option to hunt vast amounts of country to find more coyotes. But there have been times I’ve focused on those tough coyotes and had success. But why when I can move around and kill a lot more.So you’re not preaching anything new. Ok you’ve figured out your Coyotes in Minnesota, doesn’t mean you could come out here and dominate in the west. Different Tactics. Where I can totally understand that if I went back there you would kick my ass killing coyotes because you know your area and how to hunt it. But come out west and you’d get your ass handed to you. Why because tactics out here are different. So it’s all relative…

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Yes I know the tactics out there are different, you forget I been there. But what makes there difficult is finding structure where coyotes like to be which takes time, if I could afford to stay longer than a week, I see no issues but if I only have a few days to play with yes it can be a struggle in some places. In my part of country finding structure is so simple, which consists of a creek with willows on both sides or a field of CRP. Hard part is getting coyotes to play. I'd say AZ was difficult find coyote structure due to most of area being same with brush, tree's or what have you everywhere, would be like trying to call a corn field here i guess. Wyoming not so hard as its like western S.D., parts of Utah same thing, many similarities.
I called with other guys in other parts of country most just gave up on difficult coyotes.
The time I called with Crinner and Randy, crinner shoots at and misses a coyote randy called in. We get in truck after and randy says its my turn to pick next stand. We went down the road a short distance and I said stop, we will make stand here. Randy and Crinner argued with me about my choice and said we burned this area up so no point in calling it. "See they already gave up".
We get out of the truck make a stand I call in the same coyote and crinner kills it this time. I used a dam hand call and my yote buster, nothing special.
Scott H. ask Cal if he would let me come out to his area and call to some of the difficult coyotes. Cal said no! Why? Cause he was afraid if I did call one in it would make him look bad. LOL which wasn't my intension, just wanted to show that may be he was missing something is all.
Les johnson in my book wasn't a great caller as he used hand calls most of the time. What made him great was understanding coyote structure in his areas so then he had more coyotes to call to. Les spent the summer month's custom combining all over the area so yeah he got the coyotes figured out pretty quick as to what they like and don't like.
Crinner and Fat Al are not great callers either, Al just happen to have fat pockets that could put him behind locked gates with plenty of fresh coyotes to call to.
Im not a great caller but I do have a better understanding of how coyotes think. I been calling to some of the most difficult coyotes there are and just way it is. I also don't get them all as some you just can't unlock there brain when I would like but know it can happen. keep after them and sometime something will click. Maybe just have to set up closer to them or come back at a different time like early spring or mid summer and so on. I'd rather spend time calling to that one if it sticks around than go elsewhere and find one little easier. Thats just me. Also that is the coyote if it clicks is the one you learn from.
On another note you can come here most anytime over winter and call coyotes but have to do it at night, I can even point them out for you. Lol Just be up to speed on use of coyote vocals and you'll have it licked.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 02:01 PM:
 
My first day time coyote was killed around noon at easter time and have it all on film. It took about 200 day time stands to get her. Why? because I listen to everybody else that didn't live here. Oh you need to play bird distress or rabbit or jack rabbit, call less or call more or call continues. Been down all the roads.
What did I do or what changes did I make in order to get her. was pretty simple once I thought about it. I had my X-brand caller loaded with live sounds and shit load of coyote vocals. plus I stayed on stand longer than half hour.
Got her called in and filmed her and then came back exactly one year later and called her back in again and this time I shot her. I had to use same sounds and stay on stand longer than most guys do and been downhill ever since. Body langue of that female coyote was unreal, not sure how she kept her head on with all the twisting and turning twitching of her head. looking and listening and putting nose into the wind testing. she was a nervous wreck.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 03:54 PM:
 
Higgins use to preach keep coyote vocals non-threatening and I use to live by that theory and killed a lot of coyotes by doing so. But always a few I just couldn't get by playing nice.

I had the toughest coyote I ever come up against in S.D., it would lay on top of a nice big hill so it could see all around and when I would sneak in to try and call it it would just sit on top of that hill and bark/howl back, never could get it to move and if I came back later and tried to get closer it would pop up on another hill still out of gun range, fucker was pretty difficult and once again just sit there and howl or bark. He always liked to look and try to see what was there and not sure if he could see me or not or maybe seen me come in.
I happen to have a foam archery coyote that was lifelike at same height and length that I used for ranging distances with my scope with the mil-dots and then right down what the distances was or number of dots for every 100 yards.
I decided to bring this decoy along and see if I could give this old bugger a visual and maybe get it to come as it wanted something to look at.
I got out to the coyotes location and made a sneak into a small hill and took decoy and caller and placed at top of hill so it could be noticed and then I moved down about halfway and laid on my side and started calling. Sure, enough there he pops up on the big hill looking in my direction so I played a few sounds and couldn't get it to move.
I talked with Bill about a week prior about some of his coyote vocals and also about this coyote and Bill suggested I try to just flat out piss it off and perhaps it would come.
So that's what I did I used all aggressive coyote vocals and pup whines and howls just make it sound like a little coyote was getting its ass kicked. Pretty soon it came of the big hill and moved closer to a smaller hill but coming in my direction and he was really getting pissed, with hackles raised and clawing at the ground. Soon he disappeared but I kept calling and next thing I know there he is out in front putting up a nice aggressive display. Chomping at the bit with sod/grass flying around. As he looked up at the decoy coyote, he gave me a nice throat shot so I laid one into him.
That was first time I used that decoy and the last time I ever had to bring it out. Another lesson learned from mister coyote. He was scared up with worn teeth and weighed around 43 pounds.
I showed the coyote to Roede, and he laughed about using the decoy and then said that a boy you are fitting the pieces to the puzzle together. Those are the type of hunts you remember for long time.
That same week was pretty nice and Roede said he be out working his ranches and said stop in every night and show off what I get. So every night i would drive to Roede's and show him what I got for the day and then he would show me his.
If I brought in 3 coyotes Randy would have 4-5 in back of truck so next day, I work little harder at it and bring five coyotes in, and he would have 6-7. Randy was always beating me by 2-3 coyotes but then again, he is a pro at it so he should. I can't help wonder if he maybe cheated a little and tossed in a few snared coyotes. LOL
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 28, 2024, 04:07 PM:
 
Wow Tim, you’re something else I’m speechless.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 04:33 PM:
 
relax and go put another coat of paint on.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 28, 2024, 04:38 PM:
 
👍🥱
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 28, 2024, 06:01 PM:
 
Is your book coming out in hardcover first, or paperback?
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 28, 2024, 06:20 PM:
 
hard cover and been out for two years.

 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 28, 2024, 07:27 PM:
 
Tim, all these guys have been calling longer and kilt more coyotes than you will ever see.

You are wasting your breath trying to tell them anything.

All in good humor. No sense getting offended. Right?

I will offer a bit of advice on posting. Your posts are hard to read. It's all bunched together, no paragraph breaks.

It's hard to drop down a line to keep reading. Pay attention to how I chop the chatter into bite size chunks. I've tried telling you this before but so far, not sinking in!

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: EXAMPLE

When I stay for over a hour on a stand is cause the coyotes are there so why pack up and leave. makes no sense?? Most stands are 30 minutes and may take that amount of time to get a response, nothing shows or howls then I move.
I call down a creek drainage and have two coyotes on way in you wait till they get close in mean time I may get more coyotes coming in from another direction or same drainage but just takes them little longer to get to me. First two coyotes are in gun range, but you can't see them as they down on the creek ice behind cut banks or tall grass playing peek a Boo. Coyotes like to be in the shadows when they can or use some sort of cover, just way they are. Next thing you know you have been circled by a group of coyotes, some even down wind of me. Just keep calling long as they stick around, and you just wait for one or two to make a mistake and move to open ground so I can get a shot. I guess I should look at my watch if I had one and just say well fuck it's been over a hour I'm just going to get up and leave??? I'm calling coyotes also from long ways it takes time for them to come and none of that 15-minute crap, just don't happen very often. Go find some other guys from Minn. that call at night and ask them how long they sit on a stand and kill coyotes.
I know the answer. You also have to take into account there might not be a place to hide the truck, or the ground is not laid out right so you set up where you can hide the truck and see the coyotes as they come and at times that means a long way off. Property lines can also be a issue, a farmer may not want me calling on his land so then you have to call the coyotes across the property line. Some places the coyotes are predictable and have certain route they like to come in on so it takes little more time there as well. Like I said before if all a guy does is make 15-minute stands and not patent enough to wait or relies of rabbit distress they not going to kill many coyotes. LOL And if a guy just plan to make day stands then yes agree that guy should just look for a new home out of state as you not going to kill many daytime coyotes here by calling. One of the better day time callers here is old school he only calls early morning or just before dark or on snow with a full moon. I think he got 4-5 daytime coyotes this year. He does good under full moon but this year we didn't have any snow or many full moon nights as it was cloudy, so he didn't get much calling in.
He drives truck out to Cali. every week so he stops when he can and makes day stands in Cali. Utah, Nev. and few other states and does pretty good compared to here. Me move? Hell no! You just give up to easy. LOL [Razz] [Big Grin]

[ March 28, 2024, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 07:40 AM:
 
No offense here leonard, can't speak for other side of the fence though.

As for reading my crap use the mouse courser to keep you on track.

Killed more or seen more that's debatable Leonard. I assume most have day jobs and work all week. I'm off all winter and been that way ever since I left the service back in 83. I also still go out and call when weather cooperates.

Most of my gear was paid for every year from fur checks and not much would of been made just calling or hunting on a weekend.

Its just chit-chat also not trying to educate those not willing to listen or learn or suffer from a mindset/brain lock. LOL
But didn't you say you get like a thousand views a day?

I remember Steve Craig at one of campouts. He would talk about calling big cats and snaring.
I don't call big cats or snare much, but I did listen to what he had to say on the subject weither it was right or wrong or I agreed with.

[ March 29, 2024, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 29, 2024, 08:11 AM:
 
Tim I guess this is the point about you getting us all learned up.

First none of us hunt In Minnesota.

Second none of us use Thermal

Third non of us are having trouble calling and killing Coyotes.

Fourth just because we don’t listen to your nonsense doesn’t mean we have brain lock. If it works for you keep doing it.

You’re like a Plumber telling an Electrician how to do Plumbing. It’s irrelevant….

Good Hunting Buddy 😁

Chad
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 08:39 AM:
 
Pressured coyotes?

After talking with other callers from other parts of the country this is what I see.

Take North Dakota for example; Use to be one of the best places to go call coyotes, high numbers and most of the land was easy to get around on, fewer people and hunting pressure.

Years back two guys start up the coyote classic calling tournaments that are held all over the state. Which equaled more calling pressure on the coyotes and changed the way they behave. Why?

For starters length of time on a stand, 15-25 minute stands. Some callers are dumping every sound they got into such a short amount of time or only using just few key sounds and then moving on.

I go to other forums and listen to how many make a stand and what they do or don't do and seems to me too many are listening to others and sticking with a 15 min. stand and then dumping the whole sound library trying to get a coyote to come in on such a short amount of time.

Sure, it works at times, or the guys just move on to next stand, more stands equal more chances to call one in.

From what I've seen in other parts of country not all coyotes going to show up in such short amount of time, they just don't and not all going to be spotted either.

So, if the caller sees or hears nothing in short amount of time, they just pack it up and move on and in mean time and not giving the coyotes time.
Meanwhile coyotes are showing up as they leave and then getting spooked.
Or coyotes do come in but lock up and the caller don't want to spend a whole lot of time trying to call that one in so then again, they just pack up and leave them or take some wild ass shots at them. Just fucked them up for the next guy.

To my understanding the coyotes in N.D. will lock up on coyote vocals but will come to rabbit screams or vole mouse. Why is that?
Coyotes communicate by use of vocals on daily basis.
I say the problem with calling difficult coyotes is due to too many guys trying to cram everything in on such a short amount of time, in too much of a hurry and that's what is messing up the coyotes.
Chad laughs because I spend up to 2-3 hours on a stand with coyotes! Sure I do and it also gets them killed, isn't that what we are after to begin with?

Coyotes are also adapting and taking more time to come in vrs. years ago, sure the young still seem normal till a guy fucks them up and then it's back to a new game with them.
Most of the contest guys have not changed much, they still spend 15-20 minutes on a stand and move.

Some blame the x brand of e-caller for this, but I say it's the guys doing the calling and those taking wild ass shots at them.
I've gone in all winter working same groups taking out one or two at a time and then give few days of rest and go back at them. I do see a difference in performance of 2 X brand callers, but the coyotes still come in but one also does a better job of it over the other and that's what I see.

My Nephew has a X-brand caller and he was out one night trying to see if he could find and call in his own. He called me that night and said he can't do a dam thing with the coyotes, they just stayed off in the distance.
About 3 weeks go by and he goes back out again on his own and went to same area and called in a triple. I said that's great and then asked what did you do different?

He said he sold his X-brand caller and bought a Y-brand caller with everything else being the same except different selection of sounds. LOL
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 08:47 AM:
 
You also don't have to read it Chad.

Electricity flows like water so yes, they both have something in common. Water goes in and has to have a place to go out and same with electricity.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 08:50 AM:
 
Chad do you call and kill same numbers every year on avr. ???
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 29, 2024, 08:56 AM:
 
Yeah on average yes. Some years are better than others depending on the conditions.

“Chad laughs because I spend up to 2-3 hours on a stand with coyotes! Sure I do and it also gets them killed, isn't that what we are after to begin with?”

In Nevada I’ve killed 7+ coyotes in a 2-3 hour period making 10-15 minute stands. A 2 hour stand would be a total waste of time.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 11:28 AM:
 
So do you believe you killing all that's there every season and your area is filling back up with fill ins?

Example; you are killing 100 coyotes a season. And next year is roughly same number. And next year's coyotes have moved in from somewhere else????

How late in season do you hunt? Month?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2024, 11:47 AM:
 
Tim, it's a renewable resource, almost impossible to do a scorched earth in Nevada. Not so in Utah, the residents have pretty well throttled the local coyote population. To the point where pickings are rather slim. Most Utah hunters hunt coyotes in Nevada, as I do. Vast, open territory. Hard to beat!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by R.Shaw (Member # 73) on March 29, 2024, 12:19 PM:
 
Three years ago I took my first trip to Nevada. We will just say in the Elko area. I had in my mind the coyotes would have been hammered and adjusted my thought process accordingly. I did not know what to expect terrain wise.

My first five stands, I had 23 coyotes answer my howls. I did not see a coyote and we could only move on three of those coyotes due to terrain or private ownership. The moving did not pan out either, but we were able to kill three that day.

Following year. Same state, different location.
If you wanted a coyote to howl, play any sound on your ecaller except a coyote howl. I only did this on the first two stands and then switched to hand calls only. We shot 4 for the day.

A few years back, I had a conversation with Major about time on stand and I asked if he found himself staying longer. His answer was no. Also talked with Vern Howey concerning the same subject and his answer was he did not stay any longer than he ever had.

Last summer in Lusk WY for Coyote Days, I sat at the table with Les and several other trappers and callers. Same deal. 10-12 minutes and move.

I myself have been staying for 20 minutes the last three years and honestly very rarely do I have a coyote show up between 15-20 minutes. I do not throw them the kitchen sink of sounds and am always trying to eliminate variables.

These days I really enjoy hunting country I have never seen before. Finding a two track headed into the wind and driving slowly looking for sign and structure. When the two come together, I find a place for a stand and start calling. It is simply a relaxed way to hunt and if I manage 3-4 coyotes in the day, I am happy.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 29, 2024, 12:24 PM:
 
Yes I think the after the ones are killed in a given area that new coyotes move into that area.

What really affects numbers out here are disease, drought, and rabbit populations and harsh winters. If they don’t have rabbits to live on they will move to areas that hold deer and antelope.

I hunt until late February or early March. Start back up in September usually.

Like Leonard said though Nevada holds some amazing numbers of coyotes. And they get pressured a lot. Tons of contests but you still get the high numbers. Utah not so much. Oh there are quite a few coyotes but not like Nevada.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 29, 2024, 12:36 PM:
 
Randy funny you mention the howling deal in Nevada. I have found some areas coyotes are extremely vocal and active when responding to my howling even as they are approaching. But I’ve been in other areas that you couldn’t get a coyote to howl if your life depended on it. But they are still very responsive to calling.

Case in point: One day last fall went to an area that has always been productive. Started at daylight with vocals not a sound from any coyote and this was vast Sage brush flat, with rolling hills. We started just cold calling prey distress and pup distress moving every 10-15 minutes and from daylight til around noon we called 12 coyotes and killed 10 not one made a peep. But damn near every stand we had coyotes flying in. Half were killed with shotguns at 10 yards and under.

And yes always 10-15 minute stands

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 29, 2024, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 01:56 PM:
 
Nevada mostly public? Utah?

We have fill in areas here, most come off the river as the group guys won't hunt it and I don't make it over there to call or run dogs.
Here the fill in seems to stop just after breeding as most already have their ground for the year and females getting dens ready.

As season progresses do you go through a Lull?
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 29, 2024, 02:37 PM:
 
Nevada is a renewable resource. Yes, the high numbers are early season August September October. After late January, I would concentrate on cats because they don't get rubbed.

But, a 15 minute stand is all I have ever needed. The percentage of animals that respond after that is very small.

But, I have to give you credit for staying alert for two friggin' hours in sub zero Minnesota! I might not have made 8 stands, because you have to move at least a half mile between stands and that eats up some time.

Maybe if I tried to explain like this: When I first read about predator hunting and tried to apply it, yes, I called in a coyote that bolted when I stood up to leave. But, it was going with somebody that had done it that was like a revelation! I immediately GOT IT!

Even now, if I bother to read an article about hunting coyotes, it's so easy to pay attention to stuff that don't matter! I will tell you my biggest complaint, or PET PEEVE; and that's when they start talking about A SET instead of making a stand.

I don't know, I think this is a trapping term that does not apply to making a stand, don't matter, coyote or cat. It's a fucking STAND! It's not a set!

Good hunting. El Bee

PS and thanks Tim, I appreciate the spaces!
edit: yes, Nevada has a lot of BLM land. Possibly more than any other, but I don't know about Alaska, and don't care.

[ March 29, 2024, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 02:39 PM:
 
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53619381661_5a16a92c75_b.jpg

These coyotes plus five bobcats not in picture came out of Randy Shaws country. Two nights and used thermal

[ March 29, 2024, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 29, 2024, 02:56 PM:
 

quote:

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But, I have to give you credit for staying alert for two friggin' hours in sub zero Minnesota! I might not have made 8 stands, because you have to move at least a half mile between stands and that eats up some time.

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quote:

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Also, it is illegal here in NE to thermal hunt bobcats. They are considered a furbearer.

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Guess that's why they not in the picture. Plus, the landowner decides what lives or dies. LOL
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 29, 2024, 11:18 PM:
 
“I chatted with two friends' tonight that live in northern Min. One lives on N-W side of state and calls more open type ground with big sections.
He makes 15-20 minute stands and then moves on. This year he called in and killed around 40 coyotes in Mn. and another 40 coyotes in N.D. and also 15-20 minute stands there.

My other friend lives more on the N-E side of the state and has mostly woods and clear-cut areas, small fields, creeks and so on. He makes 30-minute stands and will not leave till 30 minutes is up regardless of if one shows or not. He only hunts around home and kills close to 100 coyotes a season. He also admitted sometimes 30 minutes isn't enough. Also, the N-W friend relies mostly on rabbit and maybe a few howls. N-E friend relies on both prey and alot of vocals.”

Sounds like your friends had very comparable seasons. Each using different methods.
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 30, 2024, 06:10 AM:
 
The late, great, singer - songwriter - poet Dave Dudley once wrote;
"If it feels good .... Do it ...... If it hurts ..... just let it be."
Wise advice
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2024, 08:05 AM:
 
Yeah...I think my mamma might have given me the same advice and the real persuader was that I might go blind!

Good info Tim. And great spacing!

Good hunting. El bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2024, 10:37 AM:
 

quote:

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Sounds like your friends had very comparable seasons. Each using different methods.

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They have a lot of coyotes to call to as well. The guy in N-E only calls on weekends and holidays due to work. Guy to N-W calls I think every other week for the whole week. Both also use suppressors. Also friend in N-W of state he calls N.D a lot and also requires different tactics. And for some reason N.D. coyotes don't like coyote howls. Maybe cause of so much calling pressure there, then again don't know.

N-W friend uses 3 caller brands but relies mostly on just two of them. He has a buddy with recording equipment so he can pirate most sounds and then put them on F-P or L.d.. N-E friend was a F-P fan but now is all L.D. I believe due to L.D. having more good coyote vocals.

The latest craze is F-P x25 with MFK sounds and the Lucky duck with Ricks recorded sounds. And then throw in the AR's and mega mag. dumping it will be interesting in next year or so to see how the coyotes change due to that.
Might see a increase in fresh coyotes every year due to now being call shy or more difficult to call so in return they leave more breeding pairs behind. Or get them so fucked up you can't do anything with them. Have to wait and see, I guess.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 30, 2024, 07:03 PM:
 
Let's not get too carried away with the wipe 'em out concept! Coyotes are the ultimate survivors, so go ahead, give it scorched earth for as many years as you can handle, and you still lose! Coyotes can easily survive on a diet of Mesquite beans, indefinitely, or until they dry out and split open, or not. What pisses off the farmers is taking one bite out of ten watermelons. Not much different that birds pecking at peaches, etc. Also, when they are gorged on grasshoppers, they are virtually uncallable!

I've seen very healthy coyotes in bone dry flat earth desert country. Maybe just passing through, but how can you tell?

Good hunting. El Bee

edit: around here there are still a few vineyards, and coyotes love wine grapes!

[ March 30, 2024, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 30, 2024, 07:31 PM:
 
This whole thread has my head hurting by now.....must be brain lock ehhh?
I have a neighbor, who between his full time job, working on vehicles and taking care of his dogs, is a predator control guy. He traps several months a year for a local dairy, does private control work for several ranchers and occasional work for Govt protecting the local antelope herds.
I would imagine he has missed more coyotes than Tim has shot in his lifetime. I can talk to this guy for a couple hours about coyote hunting, rifles and things that happen on stand, interesting things seen while hunting,and never once for a minute, feel like Im being schooled.
Tim, my only advice would be, don't take yourself more serious than your subject, it's just coyote hunting, you'll never get them all, and why would you want to, enjoy the hunt.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 30, 2024, 08:37 PM:
 
“Tim, my only advice would be, don't take yourself more serious than your subject, it's just coyote hunting, you'll never get them all, and why would you want to, enjoy the hunt.”

Vic, that’s some of the best advice I’ve heard on the subject. I know I will take that to heart…..

And yes Leonard I’ve seen those Coyote plum full of Mormon Crickets.

Good Hunting Chad

[ March 30, 2024, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 30, 2024, 10:47 PM:
 
Yeah i think you take it too serious as well, just chit chat.

I don't want to kill them all or even think about trying. I enjoy being outdoors and hunting coyotes, calling or running with dogs and always leave some for seed. But I also enjoy the challenge of going after the tough ones that's the icing on the cake and pretty much what I live for.
Just sitting there and blowing on a call and shooting what just so happens to show up just seems kind of boring these days.

Speaking of numbers, Big Al shoots quit a few these days but don't mean shit he still dumber than box of grasshoppers when comes to coyotes.

Just like you get up every morning and hope a stranger is in the house so you can have a little gun play, just thought keeps you going.

[ March 30, 2024, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2024, 06:41 AM:
 
OK, OK. I'm partly responsible for some of this bickering.

First of all, I let Tim back in here, and after a number of pissed off dudes strongly suggested I do it. I really didn't want to do it, but to smooth ruffled feathers, I did.

Now, he's back and he will have to learn to play nice, as we all will....have to play nice, and it ain't that fucking hard to do!

I think that what rankles is that he acts like he possesses vast knowledge and hardly anybody likes to be talked down to.

So, remember, even Minnesotans have something to say. He even made an attempt to moderate by telling us that he has been out here and you guys ain't been to Icebox Minnesota, and why would ya. I have to admit, I was born there and left there at age 12 and I've never been back and don't miss it.

Minnesota has decent fishing, although we always had to drive north for the better fishing. I loved catching, spearfishing carp and suckers, mostly on the Mississippi around Minneapolis. It was a rare event to catch a bass but small panfish were available and we had Northerns in the southern part of the state.

He talks about Prairie, I guess he's somewhere closer to Iowa and we used to hunt pheasants in cornfields down there. I do not recall it as classical coyote habitat, by any means, but as we know, they adapt.

Anybody else remember a skit that Johnny Carson used to do? He would have on a hat with earflaps, a heavy plaid coat, and used a slight Norwegian accent. That there is your card carrying Minnesotan farmer he was mimicking. I always remembered snow tires and mud flaps. My dad put up storm windows every year; what a pain in the ass! In those days, you brought your battery in the house overnight so it didn't freeze. Now a days, they have a few solutions. Maybe it was Swedish accent, come to think of it? Anyway, Tim shows up with his high top boots and it stands out. Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox ain't far away, in fact, one town up north had a giant statue, I recall. Minnesota is unique, it's different than Wisconsin and Michigan, way different than Ohio. I guess it's actually another world, more or less? Why they are Liberal Democrats, I'll never know? Shit, why is ANYBODY?

Let's all get along. We all hunt coyotes, right? The idea of sitting on a stand for two hours in Minnesota, in the winter is more than I care to handle. Takes dedication, you can't deny it. I know cold, damned right. But I know better than to spend two hours on stand. In fact, there were lots of times when we had a contest when I would make seven minute stands....and do quite well.

Peace, brothers!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2024, 10:51 AM:
 
Not talking down to anyone, if it appears that way well that's way it is then.

You talk of Mn. and have not been back since time you left its not even close to being like when you lived here. Northern Mn. maybe but they still changing just at slower pase. Some refer to them as Hillbillies just like Mo.
Yes, I'm on the prairie but mostly farm ground but due to operating costs and price of land some of the prairie is coming back and put in CRP programs.
The area I live in has more CRP land than anywhere else in the state some private and some public.
I know less than a handful that wear the hat with ear flaps, and so-called mud flaps are actually rock guards to help save on the paint.

Most farmers here are millionaires and buy new equipment every year along with new pickup trucks and some even own houses in AZ. or have a lake home up north.
We have more paved roads than AZ. and gravel roads as well another reason for rock guards.
Some of our gun shows are held in high schools over week end, can anyone else say the same. Suppressors are legal, thermal is legal, e-callers are legal, only restriction on guns is during deer season we have a rifle zone which is up north and slug season in southern half of state.
As for coyotes shoot any caliber you like, some states only allow 22 l.r. or 22 mag.
Coyotes can be shot from the road or even across a road. What's not to like.
The fucked-up Dem.live in the big city so stay out of there and you have no issues.

Go out and find a seasonal job and take the winters off and just hunt and fish with pay. That money comes from the employer and not the taxpayer. what's not to like?

I only have locked my house doors twice in my life and only lock the truck doors when I go to one of the bigger towns, don't have to carry a pistol everywhere I go and worry about if I get to use it when I come home from being away more than five days. LOL

Not here to teach but just suggest and give my .2 worth take it or leave it.

From what I gathered as far as calling coyotes you only need rabbit distress sounds and just one or two vocals. And don't need to be studio grade sounds and most any E-caller will work. Ok!

So why so many switching back and forth between caller brands?
Why the need to have so many sounds on your E-caller? 4 should be plenty.
Why even have a volume control on caller or bigger speaker?
Why the need to pirate sounds from other companies?
Why the need for a rifle if you can call them in close?
Hands calls seem to have plenty of volume some say so why even go to a E-caller?

Coyotes' vocals don't work in some areas so why even have them?

Take Les Johnson for example he was a hand caller type of guy. Now he uses E-callers and coyote vocals. Why is that?

Leonard if you don't want me around then just flip the switch, its your board.
You could also thank me for bringing AR Shaw out of the closet, I think he loves talking about coyotes as much as I do.

Have a good Easter!
 

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Posted by Kokopelli (Member # 633) on March 31, 2024, 10:56 AM:
 
That was the whole point of my Dave Dudley reference; If it works for you, do it and mayhap suggest that it may or may not work for me.
For my ownself I can sit for two or three hours ..... on a deer stand. Coyotes, I can make about six stands in two hours depending on how much time I spend looking for lost arrows.
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2024, 11:35 AM:
 
Don't get sensitive on me, Tim. If I ever had a problem, you'd know it! I'm on your side, Amigo. I've hunted with Shaw, he's a good hunter. I have no problem but I didn't know that you had to coax him back?

My little speech was directed at the Peanut Gallery, anyway. Some need to understand that TA is an acquired taste, and yes, he does generate ink! This is good, makes me not feel like I'm paying for a graveyard! I think we all know that if everybody agrees on every fucking thing, there would be no reason to fire up your laptop just to say:

Yes, you are right, Leonard. You make total sense on everything and, BTW you're good looking too!

Happy Easter!

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2024, 12:39 PM:
 

quote:

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For my ownself I can sit for two or three hours ..... on a deer stand. Coyotes, I can make about six stands in two hours depending on how much time I spend looking for lost arrows. [Smile]

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You sit 2-3 hrs on a deer stand cause the deer is the trophy you after. Same here but a difficult coyote is my prize. You sat down to play the game why not finish it like you would if it was a deer.
Ok you can drive down the road and make more stands in that amount of time. What if those stands all turn out to be blank, then what you gain? Just saying.....
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on March 31, 2024, 03:06 PM:
 
Just remember, everybody's set in their ways. And, truthfully, you don't know a hell of a lot about how I hunt coyotes except my conversation and there's a lot of blank spaces regarding behavior. I don't hunt a lot different from 60 years ago. Except I might use electronics and a few sounds that didn't exist back then, but, done right, and I bet Victor Carlson hunts with the same calls he has always used. Is unique sounds the key to success? How has your routine developed? I'm asking everybody. Is your technique unrecognizable compared to when you first started?

Another thing. Not picking on Tim, but I will venture an opinion that he has gained far more advantage because much information has been in the public domain since you started and it wasn't at ZERO, like some of us. For what it's worth, nobody had recorded anything on anything when I started. There were no machines of any kind and nobody had so far recorded a distress sound.

In fact, in my club, even after they did appear, using a machine would get you disqualified.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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Posted by Az-Hunter (Member # 17) on March 31, 2024, 04:17 PM:
 
Your right on that Leonard, still use the same four sounds Ive used for many, many years. The sound is the least important part of the equation in my hunting stands. You remember the old original JS 101, the jackrabbit, that sonofabitch still calls a mess of coyotes every winter.
I suppose my method has evolved over time, like everyone's I would guess. 54 years ago, I had a plastic Circe rabbit call, 8mm Mauser rifle my Dad expatriated from WW2, and sat my ass in the dirt somewhere in the desert blowing till I was out of gas. Killed my first one a short 1/4 mile west of my house, sitting up in an old broke down, wood sided cotton trailer.
Never forget how amazed I was to see that coyote bouncing in to my stand. Last half dozen years, Ive began to call longer than I once did, surpassing that magical 1-7 minute time frame on a 15 minute stand. I make 30 minute stands now, not that I see a dramatic difference, but have that odd coyote that comes in late just often enough that I figure what the hell, seems normal now.
Im not going to ramble about technique, like assholes, everyone has one, you play your game, I'll play mine.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on March 31, 2024, 05:44 PM:
 

quote:

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I make 30 minute stands now, not that I see a dramatic difference, but have that odd coyote that comes in late just often enough that I figure what the hell, seems normal now.

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I'll buy that. Thanks

quote:

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How has your routine developed? I'm asking everybody. Is your technique unrecognizable compared to when you first started?

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quote:

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but I will venture an opinion that he has gained far more advantage because much information has been in the public domain since you started and it wasn't at ZERO, like some of us

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WE never had calling contests here let alone anyone doing much calling. You read a few books and that's it. You just get off your ass and go out and learn. Trial and error and learn from mistakes. As for the boards a lot of mixed-up info some good some just hog wash aay.
Some you have to just sift through it or just go find out yourself what will work and thats what I always did, do the leg work and find out as to why and why not and like said a red fox or coyote is your best teacher if you don't shoot them right away.

Higgins always had some good points but then found out most or only part of it applied as to here.
JRB liked to use the kitchen sink approach when calling and I looked down on that but also found out on my own he was on the right page, there is no limit to how many sounds you can use on one stand.
Randy Roede would say you just confusing them. Yes, in a way you are confusing them but at same time you also getting their brain unlocked and onto something else. Coyotes can't racialize or think like humans and cannot multitask.

Now days my stands start out like this: Lone howl or invite or just a group rally howl. Then prey distress, Vole mouse, rabbit, bird or deer. I wait for them to come into view and go from there and see what they like or don't like.
They stop coming and start to look in my direction then I give them something else, pups killing a deer or maybe beta terr. howl or what have you. If they appear to be older and bigger coyotes I will get aggressive with them but work my way up in aggression and then maybe throw some vole mouse back at them.
I can't say I use the same sounds on every stand here, can be different from one coyote to the next.
Years back when I called in my first day time coyote it took more than a handfull of sounds and was the same the next year with her and is the same today.
S.D. was a whole new ballgame just needed vole mouse, rabbit and a few howls and that's all it took for most. Once in a while if I called in a double but only got one, I came back next day and played some Bill Austin lost mate vocals and finished the game. (cassette tapes)
Mex. Ok.,AZ, utah, Wyoming, Neb. and Iowa mostly rabbit.
Go elsewhere call a shit load then come back home thinking I can do same here and then get a nice reminder after few days nope it just don't fly here.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on March 31, 2024, 10:57 PM:
 
I don’t know when you called in Utah last Tim. But it’s been a while I bet, not very many Coyotes are called in here with standard rabbit sounds anymore. In fact I don’t remember the last time I used them here. I use Coyote Vocals and Coyote distress sounds almost exclusively. Might use voles or bird sounds occasionally. That’s both e caller and hand calls.

Now Nevada is different I use a lot more prey distress sounds. My calling out there is more like it used to be 30 years ago. But I have always used howling when calling.

I remember being fascinated in the late 80’s by Bill Austin and Ed Sceery and how they incorporated howling on each stand. Still have and use my old Sceery howler from way back all the time. It’s well worn and has a crack or two in it but still calls coyotes.

I’m still one that believes less is better as far as calling goes especially with howls. Peak there curiosity but don’t over call. Has worked well for me for over 35 years. Especially for the tough to call coyotes. And yes I will stay 30 minutes on a stand for some of those.

I do use and like the ecallers. Especially my LD roughneck with a lot of Ricks Premium sounds. But I also love my 30 year old Sceery Ap7 in desert camo.

I will say I’m not as serious as I once was about trying to kill every coyote out there. I really enjoy just being out doing it these days. Oh don’t get me wrong I still get that adrenaline rush like I did when I first started calling every time a coyote comes loping in, that will never change and when it does I guess it will be time to hang it up.

Good Hunting Chad
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 01, 2024, 01:09 AM:
 
And Tim I noticed you like to slight guys like Les Johnson and Al Morris. Those guys have been killing a lot of Coyotes for a very long time. They have won a lot of the really big Contests multiple times and that’s no small feat. I know because I’ve hunted them before and those guys know how to get it done.

I know Leonard’s been there done that but not many have.

And a lot of times they win hunting public land. Until you can call and kill 20 coyotes in a day and a half of day calling you can’t talk crap.

Especially Les…He won the Midwest(Kansas), The Nationals(Wyoming) and the World(Nevada) all in the same year. Pretty amazing accomplishment……

Good Hunting Chad

[ April 01, 2024, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 07:24 AM:
 
Chad I was in Utah back in the 80's, two trips. Called along the flaming gorge west of green river and south, Utah and Wyoming both sides and stopped in Salt Lake for dinner.
I used Dennis kirk caller back then with sounds from Ed S. and Bill A.. Ed had a nice female invite howl and awesome rabbit distress.
I have one of Ed's howlers as well and the bite reed call Like you mentioned and also the mini bite reed call, I think it was made for calling elk but makes nice mouse screams.
Rock springs was a nice area to call and alot of good places all the way up to Half-moon lake turn off, just south of Yellowstone.

As far as I know Ed was only one that admitted to standing up and calling 360 at the time, never heard or read about anyone else doing such and that's one of the things I guess I took from him.
Have to have the right areas for it that are more open.
Don't have many coyotes here compared to other places and I do know where most are so I know how many I can take and not take. always leave a few for the dogs to chase.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 07:48 AM:
 
Chad, Les spends his summers in a combine traveling all over Neb. Kansas, Colorado, Tex, and Oklahoma and see's what most never see due to the vast countryside and the cost to actually see it all, so yeah, he has the upper hand when it comes to finding coyotes and structure and also knows most of the landowners.

Big Al just reaches into his pocket and pays to unlock a few gates. Then if you listen to him on one of those pod casts and some of the crap, he says you have to ask yourself why this guy is even out calling. LOL Not sure of what word to use here, elusion or deception.
Has fat Al ever called Mo. or Iowa????
Has Al or les ever call in N.D. coyote classic???

Randy Roede and Bucks/Bears both did classic and neither one lives there. Randy won using my E-caller. LOL Bucks won one year as well.
Both also went up against a kid that lived there and kills over 200 coyotes a year.
Think the kid has won it a few times but when they hold one of the contests on East side of the state, he struggles pretty bad and lucky if he makes top ten.
I don't know, I guess everyone has to have a hero to look up to these days.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 01, 2024, 07:55 AM:
 
No heroes. Just stating facts. Which I’d love to know where you get yours. You seem to know an awful lot about them. I noticed you said Randy used your caller. Why didn’t you use it and win it yourself. You seem to think you are better that Les and Al. Sorry Tim I think you’re all hat no cowboy when it comes to calling. Lol
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 08:04 AM:
 
I'm not really into contests but did do one with Randy S. one year. Had over 30 coyotes located, and Randy S. would have kicked everyone's ass if we didn't have 40 mph wind where we hunted. Had a good area with numbers and easy access.
Second year had an invite to do another contest, some guy needed a partner, and I was out in area, so they called me. We called on a different Indian res. and this guy was Trible warden, so we called on his res. He didn't have shit for coyotes but did see enough we could of had a chance if the guy would have left his bino's in the truck and stop taking 500 yard shots. LOL Think we got 4-5 and winners got 7-8 that day.
So anyway, contests are not that much fun to me plus you have to have a area that holds good numbers as well as that's the key to winning.
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 08:12 AM:
 
Like said contests don't interest me plus it takes a lot of money just ask Buck's/bears. I think he said. he would never do it again. As for some title they can have it. LOL

I met Les 2-3 times so yeah, I know a little about him. Go to his house once all you see is his trophies sitting on dining room table. Nice guy though.
 

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Posted by UTcaller (Member # 8) on April 01, 2024, 08:26 AM:
 
Shoulda, coulda, woulda!!!!!!😂

That’s why I said what I did. We went into the Worlds one year and I really thought we had a shot. Good numbers of coyotes and good conditions. Until it dumped 2 feet of snow overnight and the access was very limited. For those guys to win consistently year after year under any and all conditions is pretty amazing. I know Les won the world contest hunting public land and killed 20 coyotes. Not to shabby
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 09:05 AM:
 
Yeah. Thing is though if you have enough area or places, you can go if weather turns to crap helps a lot. When called with Shaw we had all the wind north of the river, the other guys called south of the river and west and got out of most of the wind. Plus a few of the guys also ranched and saved their ground for just contests. Geordie hunted with one of the ranchers, but his land butted up against the river, so they had to deal with the wind as well.

After contest a snowstorm blew in so Randy and Geordie went back home. I sat in hotel for two days I believe as Roede mentioned I should wait out the storm and then hit them hard after.
Storm passed and I went to my area and called same places I located days before. I killed enough coyotes by myself to win the stupid contest 4x over. LOL Was more fun doing it without worrying about dam contest.
 

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Posted by NVWalt (Member # 375) on April 01, 2024, 10:54 AM:
 
Here ya go Leonard...
Yes, you are right, Leonard. You make total sense on everything and, BTW you're good looking too!
I can't believe I just did that.
In Nevada when I lived there I did 10-15 min stands for coyotes and 25-30 for bobcats if they didn't show right up. The bobcats were plentiful it seemed like if you called the right area and I have talked to a handful of houndsmen there on both sides of Nevada and they were more interested in Mt Lions than with bobcats. Sure they took the little kitties but concentrated more on the big kitties. I even had a couple of them tell me where they just treed?more like bayed up but there are trees? that they would climb. Never did have much luck with that info other than to go back a week later after they settled down a bit from being chased all over Hell and back.
I still can't believe I re-posted that Leonard ..LOL
 

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Posted by TA17Rem (Member # 794) on April 01, 2024, 01:58 PM:
 
Not sure about elsewhere but cats here won't take to a tree when being run by dogs, most caught on the ground.

As for bears according to my friends its mostly the young bears that tree, the older bears are too fat to climb or just don't care to.
Wisc. has two bear seasons, early one for just running and training dogs and second season for killing. Baits are put out with trail cameras and in morning of just a training hunt they look for where the young bears are feeding and go after them.
Come hunt season same is done except they target the big bears that been coming into the bait.

[ April 01, 2024, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: TA17Rem ]
 

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Posted by Leonard (Member # 2) on April 01, 2024, 05:37 PM:
 
I'm just reading, guys. Nothing to talk about.

About contests. It's a lot of work, nothing fun about it. Either you get access by buying your way in the gate, or your reputation takes care of it for you. Either way, it's still sort of a stacked deck. I can't count on somebody not having an inside track. If you set up in prime stuff, take Mexico, for instance. Those coyotes are so unsophisticated that anybody who is a decent shot will kill everything they see. So, there's something artificial about it, I donno maybe like it's rigged.

I can't even believe I said that, but it's become obvious.

Good hunting. El Bee
 

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