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Author
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Topic: Global Warming is a religion
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted July 13, 2016 04:58 AM
And probably as dangerous as Islam. It is well worth 30 minutes of your time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCy_UOjEir0
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 06:20 AM
Didn't watch the video, but climate change, global warming, I don't care what you want to call it - I'm a believer.
Human pollution is absolutely causing changes in the atmosphere and those changes are absolutely having an effect on weather patterns and climate around the globe.
I really can't understand how this is controversial or hard to believe.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 13, 2016 06:54 AM
Maybe because it's a little too nuanced? Such as "man made" and of course, anything man can make, he can unmake. And, never mind that the weather has always been changing.
I'm a firm believer in the Religion aspect of GLOBAL WARMING, or the fall back; CLIMATE CHANGE.
I think weather patterns are changing, which is no big shock. They say that people couldn't grow crops in Europe in the middle ages, something about a "little ice age"?
So, now it's because we are burning and releasing carbon, the most abundant element on the planet. Or, is it ozone? Whatever, but without understanding what it is and how to fix whatever it is, we must combat CLIMATE CHANGE by shutting down coal fired power generators and depending instead on wind?
Somebody did a study about how many windmills would be required to power Manhattan. The whole state of Connecticut. Right, no problem, especially if it's a windy day.
I'm sorry. I don't believe the hype and the half baked solutions. The people must have fear. The GOVERNMENT will take care of us and solve it, whatever it is, by spending vast amounts of treasure. Basically, the body politic is stupid and inclined to solutions for non existent problems, such as regulating sunshine.
That's the problem. Sunspot activity. If elected, Hillary will get right to work on a United Nations solution so don't worry.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 07:27 AM
So, you really don't believe pollution is having a significant impact on changing weather patterns? Really?
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 13, 2016 08:01 AM
No.
Really.
BTW. What do you mean by "pollution"? Picking up trash will solve GLOBAL WARMING?
While I have no opinion about man caused climate change and have no idea how to solve whatever it is, I also don't think Obama should be the banker involved with solutions to ill-defined problems.
I also think most of the supposedly objective scientific community is in the tank for funding of their preconceived research. I doubt that any "deniers" are awarded research funds because 97% of the scientists that agree with each other control the debate.
I am willing to listen to debate about hidden ocean temperatures and sun activity, but without nuclear and coal and restricting electrical generation, I can't get too excited about "pollution" as the culprit.
I'm not actual stupid. But, I see no proof. I see lots of evidence of religion. Trust is a huge component, as well. I guess I am agnostic? This CONSENSUS shit doesn't work for me.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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Kokopelli
SENIOR DISCOUNT & Dispenser of Sage Advice
Member # 633
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posted July 13, 2016 08:11 AM
I BELIEVE:
The earth has been warming since the end of the last ice age.
I BELIEVE;
That the earth will continue to warm up until the beginning of the next ice age.
I BELIEVE;
This has been going on in cycles for a very long long time.
AND I DEFINITLY BELIEVE;
There ain't a damn thing we can do about it other than wring our hands in despair.
Global warming, rising oceans, flooded coastal cities.............sure thing.
You want to know why there are whale fossils found in Kansas ??
BECAUSE AT ONE TIME, KANSAS WAS AN INLAND OCEAN. !!!
Then, even without Algore's help, the climate changed, Kansas dried up and Lance had a mail route to walk.
Now, the pendulum swings the other way, the ocean will rise again and Lance will deliver the mail from a canoe.
Thus endth today's lesson.
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And lo, the Light of the Trump shown upon the Darkness and the Darkness could not comprehend it.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted July 13, 2016 08:48 AM
I do believe we are having an impact on the planet but it isn't all bad. If you would WATCH the video I supplied for 30 minutes you would see that CO2 is good for plant growth. You would learn that the ideal average temperature for planet earth has never been studied. Is hotter better or is colder better? You would also see that the global heating peaked in 1998 and has stopped for the last 15 years. Meanwhile CO2 has continued to grow which contradicts Al Gore's hypothesis.
Here is a cut and paste that describes the video:
"Nobel laureate Ivar Giaever's speech at the Nobel Laureates meeting 1st July 2015:
Ivar points out the mistakes which Obama makes in his speeches about global warming, and shares other not-well known facts about the state of the climate."
This whole doomsday based religion isn't about climate change but about money and control. Obama's original plan was to pass cap and trade which would have supplied him with the revenue to pay for health care and free education. It would also mean they would start regulating our energy use and tax us for it. A Harvard study said that to pay for the damage done by gas powered cars the government would have to impose a $7.00 per gallon tax. Coal generated electricity will go through the roof. Such a tax scheme means most people across the country will be paying an unfair amount of taxes to support the liberal's dream programs. How much fuel tax will a Wall Street broker pay who rides the subway to work compare to a Wyoming rancher who drives 100s of miles per day across the plains? How much carbon tax will the people in the Pacific Northwest pay in their electric bills compared to those of us who get our power from coal?
There is a reason Gore calls global warming irrefutable. He doesn't want it studied anymore so he can become the richest man in the world. Here are some links that prove the debate continues:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/414359/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703499404574559491076961008
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-climate-change-1-1456886481
Those martains need to shut down their coal plants. Here is the link
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 09:31 AM
Not asking about politics, or religion or litter collection or what the effects are actually going to be or what can be done about it.
Simply asked if you really don't believe that human pollution is having a significant impact on the atmosphere and therefor on weather/climate.
It's obvious I have reached very different conclusions. No biggie. I'm no crusader. Not interested in trying to change anyones mind. That's a waste of everyones time.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 13, 2016 09:43 AM
All I know is when they tell me the debate is over, based on consensus, I have to be skeptical.
This following quote I find (surprising) which is the most polite word I can think of, at the moment.
quote:
I really can't understand how this is controversial or hard to believe.
- DAA
You must understand at least, that some people have doubt as to the conclusions voiced by the CONSENSUS FOLKS? Such as, the manipulation of data? All the projections are wrong, but all they need is a little tweaking here and there; "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".
For me, it's not that there may be a pause in warming, (which wrecks their theories) it's the serious belittling and the bullying of people that ask the questions, that want actual proof, not SCIENTIFIC MALARKY
AND, THE DRASTIC MEASURES! Come on! No, before I agree with their half baked solutions, I want actual proof, not sand pounding up my ass. I'm telling ya, 97% of "scientists" with their mouth on the funding teat is not my idea of credibility. Their climate models show that it's not happening, so what would honest scientists do about it? They are caught manipulating their friggin' data, that's what they do. LIARS, is what they are, and I'm comfortable being a denier, thank you very much.
Good hunting. El Bee
edit: and yeah, Dave. I'm okay with people having an honest difference of opinion, as long as I am allowed that luxury, for the time being. I also, am not a crusader.
[ July 13, 2016, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Leonard ]
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted July 13, 2016 12:19 PM
I think the human caused global warming is Bullshit. Just another way to get more money out of people.They say that Mt.St. Helens eruption caused as much CO2 pollution as 300 years worth of human pollution. So go figure. Just another cause the left can make us all feel guilty about. But whatever.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 12:59 PM
Leonard, you want proof, I think I can appreciate that. But you reject science.
What kind of proof do you need? I can't think of any other kind but science? If that's not going to be good enough, that's pretty much the end of that?
It's just so cut and dried to me. What burning hydrocarbons release and what those emissions do in the atmosphere. It's observable. Measurable. Reproducible. There is data. Tons and tons and tons of data. The dots connect so clearly, to me. And, like you said, 99% of the people who try and study and learn about this stuff.
Oh well. It's pretty low on my list of things to give a shit about, really. I'm just not going to be alive that much longer. None of us are.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted July 13, 2016 02:41 PM
I guess my problem is that they have only been really measuring this shit for the last say 50 years. But they know that it is all human pollution that has caused this global warming phenomena. When we have been having volcanoes that cause much more damage than human pollution for millions of years. And the science tells us that we have actually been warming since the last ice age. I really do give much thought about it to be honest. It will either get warmer or it won't, and anything that humans do won't do a damn bit to change it one way or another.
https://youtu.be/4akXzsQFGrA
[ July 13, 2016, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: UTcaller ]
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted July 13, 2016 02:47 PM
With very little effort you can find a lot of science that contradicts ozone gore. A good place to start would be the links I posted.
The link where I say Those Martains need to shut down their coal plants is how some very prestigious scientist believe that the global warming we experienced up to 2000 was caused by solar irradiance. One piece of evidence is at the same time we have been warming up, the Ice on Mars has evaporated from the Martian canals.
Here is a cut and paste form the link:
"Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures. In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row."
"Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun. The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said."
IMHO we shouldn't destroy our economy because of scientists that won't release the raw data they used for peer review. Or if they do release it, it is only to like minded scientist. The Climate doomsdayers will not allow any discussion against climate change and will blacklist any contradictory opinions so as to prevent their papers from being published. Climate change is the only subject in the whole scientific world that does not allow an intelligent discussion with contrarian view points. All of this information was discovered when the hacked emails from the Climate Research Unit in England were released.
For my last cut and paste I will end it with this:
"The solar irradiance began to drop in the 1990s, and a minimum will be reached by approximately 2040," Abdussamatov said. "It will cause a steep cooling of the climate on Earth in 15 to 20 years."
[ July 13, 2016, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Aznative ]
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 03:01 PM
Well... none of that refutes the effect of pollution. None of it even addresses the question.
Not relevant to my simple, basic question here.
Which, you've already said - the very first thing you said was, I think, was yes pollution is having an effect on the atmosphere.
I think Leonard and Chad clearly don't believe it. I'm fine with that. Just agree to disagree.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
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posted July 13, 2016 03:55 PM
Ok for shits and giggles lets say man made global warming is real. The data over the last 50 years proves it. Wouldn't that mean that in the past say 25 years that the (EPA) has been ramping up the regulations and environmental policies to fix this disastrous problem, that the data would show that it is starting to reverse the problem even if it is only a slight change. All I hear is that it keeps getting worse every year.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted July 13, 2016 04:36 PM
All I can offer to that is my opinion. Which is...
No, not even close, not by a million miles.
The amount of pollution going into the air has been rapidly accelerating.
Reasons for that are super obvious, I think? All the Chinese economic growth, and other parts of the world. Etc.
More people means more pollution and they are making more and more people faster and faster all the time in developing parts of the world. Here too. If cars only put out half the pollution but there are five times as many, that's still more than twice the pollution.
As far as measuring what the atmosphere has composed of going back hundreds of millions of years. That's pretty basic stuff. Ice cores. It seems pretty straightforward and solid to me? Not that I'm qualified to say.
But the amount and type of pollution we are putting out now, it's not in the history. Never happened before, this way. Uncharted territory.
The atmosphere HAS undergone rapid changes before, many times before. Meteors, really huge volcanic activity. Stuff like that. Mass extinctions, huge changes in flora and fauna. Winners and losers. Like AZ is saying, not all the change is bad. I think the extinctions have already started. Amphibians, mostly. But thousands of species of them have gone extinct in the last 20 years.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Leonard
HMFIC
Member # 2
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posted July 13, 2016 04:37 PM
This one that Chad posted covers pretty well the arguments that work with me.
https://youtu.be/4akXzsQFGrA
Besides that, it is well known the deceit involved by these pillars of the scientific community. There is no denying the manipulation of their climate models and then what do we have? Garbage in and garbage out as the saying goes.
Worse than that is the tactics. Denying climate change should be a fucking crime? What the hell are they afraid of?
If I appear to be a member of FLAT EARTH, or any other sort of ridicule they can dream up, then so be it. But, the way they throw around the billions of dollars on snake oil solutions is idiotic. I am not against research, but quit with THE DEBATE IS OVER!
Don't forget, the only country committed to OBAMA's solutions is America. They rest of them are going to do NOTHING.
Good hunting. El Bee
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EL BEE Knows It All and Done It All.
Don't piss me off!
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 04:44 PM
To that last point...
I hear all the time that extinctions have always happened and always will.
Yes.
But, there is such a thing as a basic background level of extinction. An average rate that they occur. And all the stuff I have ever read about it, not counting mass extinction events, which have occurred five times in the distant past - not counting those, extinctions are actually not very common.
They seem to be occurring right now at a rate many, many times above what might be expected?
Whether it's man made or not, the temperature, PH and levels of the oceans are changing pretty darn fast. Micro climates in many places all over the world are experiencing changes. For species that have specialized, it really doesn't take much, just a couple degrees change in temperature - either way - to push them out of that habitat and if there isn't other suitable habitat available, they go extinct.
It's happening, a lot, right now.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted July 13, 2016 04:48 PM
Ok so if nothing we are doing is helping it looks to me we have one of 2 choices. "turn out the lights the party's over". And go back to the pre industrial days. Or " sit back and enjoy the ride". Quit throwing money and regulations at the problem and see what happens.
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
Member # 11
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posted July 13, 2016 05:04 PM
The politics of this stuff are just about as vile a piece of shit from the compacted bowels of hell as anything could possibly be.
Truth, or what is right, aren't part of the calculus. Not even minor considerations. Everyone stakes out a position to further an agenda, to serve their own purpose. If the truth ever happens, it's just transient coincidence.
Where I know you guys will strongly disagree with me, is that I don't see the two sides as being distinguishable in this respect. They are all peas in the same pod.
If anything, I suspect there might actually be a few misguided, true believers on the eco-freak side. Whereas I don't think any of the players on the pro hydrocarbon side believe any of their own bullshit.
That said...
In terms of practical policy, I fall much closer to the pro hydrocarbon side.
I'm a practical man.
I don't think it's useful to deny the problems associated with pollution.
But I also don't think it's useful for the United States to put itself at competitive and economic disadvantage vs. the rest of the world in the name of saving the planet.
I don't think it's useful for the gov't to try and pick winners, or be involved in "clean energy" in any way. The best thing the gov't could do, is just get out of the way.
I think, probably, that eventually a market driven solution, or multiple solutions will emerge. New energy sources, whatever. But it will be good old fashioned profit that motivates it and brings it about and the gov't can't do anything but fuck that up.
Shorter term, practical ideas, I don't have many. Rehabilitate the image of nuclear and build more of it, would be one.
Another... My son is getting a master in electrical engineering with his emphasis on power engineering. He tells me, that simply modernizing the grid, using existing proven technology, besides making it way less vulnerable to terrorist sabotage, would result in such large efficiency gains that it would have the same effect as reducing demand by as much as 20%. That's pretty huge. And it goes along with all that "infrastructure" stuff all the politicos are always talking about. But, when they talk, their lips are moving, we all know what that means...
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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DAA
Utah/Promoted WESTERN REGIONAL Hunt Director
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posted July 13, 2016 05:12 PM
BTW... Long as I'm rambling...
I've long believed it will be the Chinese, not the US, that eventually leads the way on "clean energy". Whatever that means and whatever form the profitable version of it eventually looks like.
For one, they are suffering the effects of pollution far more acutely than we are. They are motivated, in that sense.
For another, they do business by jungle law. Look at what they did with solar panels, for instance. Even if they don't invent it, they'll steal it and sell it for less and end up dominating.
That's one of the few things Trump says that make any sense at all. When he talks about "having really good trade deals", what I think he means is, "you fuck us, we're gonna fuck you and your mother and your sister". At least I hope that's what he means.
- DAA
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"Oh yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em." -- George Hanson, Easy Rider, 1969.
Rocky Mountain Varmint Hunter
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Dave Allen
Hi, I'm SUPER DAVE, IN CHARGE OF Q STUFF (and Goat Leader) "I'm really not trying to be a dick".
Member # 3102
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posted July 13, 2016 05:18 PM
I get where Dave is coming from, and everyone else.
I think we can all agree. We don't trust things when the gov't is telling us so. There is way to much money to be made when were lied to.
The bottom line. IMHO is we really don't know ? Pollution can't be good. On the other hand all that shit being sprayed in the air isn't either. I see it all the time, it's not commercial airlines either. It's flat enough here, I can see the oval formations & patterns.
That's a topic for another day, I "spose. It concerns me though.
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UTcaller
NEVADA NIGHT FIGHTER
Member # 8
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posted July 13, 2016 05:19 PM
I can't really see anything I really disagree with in your last two posts. Makes sense to me.
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted July 13, 2016 06:29 PM
DAA: Your last two post told me a lot of where you are coming from and I don't have any problems with you.
Yes I did say I believe mankind is having an impact on the climate. I know of two facts.
First, every morning I get up and walk the dog and feel the man made impact of this asphalt heat sink that I live in named Phoenix.
Second, CO2 has doubled and that is a fact. Now we all know Ozone Gore has made millions selling carbon credits whatever that is so he has a monetary based agenda. Climate researchers have never had it so good getting government grants now that Mr Ozone invented global warming. Thus, their computer models are skewed to spit out the worst possible scenario and shut down contrarians . Lastly, Obama wants the revenue cap and trade will bring in.
Since I cannot trust the science behind it, I just don't believe it will ever be as bad as they claim. Another fact is high CO2 is good for food production. In most parts of the world higher heat will mean high crop yields too. I fear a serious ice age much more than a degree or two of higher heat. An Ice age would kill hundreds of millions. You cannot grow food under snow and ice.
Just don't get me on renewable fuels. That really ticks me off, and I'll probably offend a few farmers.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
Posts: 1924 | From: Phoenix Az | Registered: Jan 2005
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Aznative
FARTS ON CLUELESS LIBERALS
Member # 506
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posted July 13, 2016 07:02 PM
DAA: I hope your son invents a new fuel source for cars. I never want to see this nation buy another barrel of oil from rag heads again.
You mentioned nuclear power which jogged my mind about one of Obama's/Hillary's scandals when they let Russia get control of a Uranium mine here in the US. Now why did they approve of that sell when we only produce 20% of what we use per year? They did it because they are environmental extremists who don't approve of nuclear power. Obama is sly like a coyote.
Another stupid Obama deal was trading AWOL Bergdahl for those five top taliban commanders? Obama used the opportunity to get rid of the five worst prisoners which would make closing Guantanamo easier.
Another stupid Obama deal is why didn't he approve the keystone pipeline? Two words, Warren Buffet. Warren Buffett owns the railroad that moves the oil today. Keystone would have killed a huge income stream for both a financial supporter and an ally in getting congress to increase capital gains.
I/we cannot afford another four years of Obama policies.
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Never thought the devil would need a teleprompter but I could be wrong.
United State of America: RIP
Born July 4th 1776 died November 6th 2012
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